Trump to exclude Dreamers

[ruby59]

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/02/21/trump-to-exclude-u-s-dreamer-migrants-from-crackdown/21718856/


I am happy to see this. I feel this is definitely a step in the right direction.

 

[telephone89]

"DHS officials... said that although any immigrant in the country illegally could be deported, the agency will prioritize those deemed as posing a threat.

These include recent entrants, those convicted of a crime and people charged but not convicted."

"one part of the plan that calls on ICE agents to increase the number of immigrants who are not given a hearing before being deported"

The underlined seems problematic =\

 

[House Cat]

Charged with a crime...

Convicted of a crime...


It is a crime to be in the country illegally. There is the loophole.
It is a crime to have forged documents or false identification in this country, which they would need to work. There is the loophole.

They will be rounding up whomever they can find. They will be grabbing the easy targets. The real criminals know how to hide. They also know how to easily make their way back over the border because they've already done it several times! These other people who are living here to work, and live, and raise children should be left alone. It is wasted resources to pick on them.

 

[Dancing Fire]

"DHS officials... said that although any immigrant in the country illegally could be deported, the agency will prioritize those deemed as posing a threat.

These include recent entrants, those convicted of a crime and people charged but not convicted."

"one part of the plan that calls on ICE agents to increase the number of immigrants who are not given a hearing before being deported"

The underlined seems problematic =\

...This is problematic. I wish the left wingers would stop protecting criminals.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/02/20/denver-police-release-alien-before-alleged-murder/

https://romancatholicimperialist.blogspot.com/2015/07/illegal-mexican-immigrant-mark-anthony.html

 

[telephone89]

"DHS officials... said that although any immigrant in the country illegally could be deported, the agency will prioritize those deemed as posing a threat.

These include recent entrants, those convicted of a crime and people charged but not convicted."

"one part of the plan that calls on ICE agents to increase the number of immigrants who are not given a hearing before being deported"

The underlined seems problematic =\

...This is problematic. I wish the left wingers would stop protecting criminals.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/02/20/denver-police-release-alien-before-alleged-murder/

https://romancatholicimperialist.blogspot.com/2015/07/illegal-mexican-immigrant-mark-anthony.html

Okay first of all, probably THE worst sources you could find on the internet lol. You probably aren't going to bother to even read my response below (as you never do), but I'll type in vain anyways

For your first article, it states that ICE had requested notification when he was being released so they could pick him up. Dude posted bail, sherriffs department faxed their notification, and they let him go. There was no 'ignoring officers pleas'. So he was initially arrested for car theft, weapons possession, etc. It is hear about the further crimes committed, and the loss of a life.

For your second 'article', which, I actually struggle to call it that since it's a full on blog, I can't find a single corroborating article that says anything about Estrada being an illegal. In fact in multiple articles he had no criminal background, worked for his fathers company in the city, blah blah. So he wasn't flagged, seemed like a 'good citizen', and then BAM murdered this guy. NONE of the sanctions would have protected the officer unfortunately. Is murder terrible? Absolutely. But because this guy is Hispanic and using that to blame all illegals for crime in the US is not right. That said, the charges seem justified, and it looks like he's facing the death penalty, so he will get his if convicted.

Now, in some vein, I actually agree with you. I agree with harsher punishments for crimes committed on bail (your first article), and deportation is an option when it comes to certain people. This isn't a solution though. And I still disagree with the underlined in my first post, because if you're allowed to deport anyone charged with a crime, what's to stop people from just laying down random charges? Or deporting people without a trial, what's to say there aren't legal measures being taken and they ignore them? It just seems like an abuse of power IMO. The right to a fair trial is something I value, and will always strive to uphold.

 

[redwood66]

"DHS officials... said that although any immigrant in the country illegally could be deported, the agency will prioritize those deemed as posing a threat.

These include recent entrants, those convicted of a crime and people charged but not convicted."

"one part of the plan that calls on ICE agents to increase the number of immigrants who are not given a hearing before being deported"

The underlined seems problematic =\

...This is problematic. I wish the left wingers would stop protecting criminals.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/02/20/denver-police-release-alien-before-alleged-murder/

https://romancatholicimperialist.blogspot.com/2015/07/illegal-mexican-immigrant-mark-anthony.html

Okay first of all, probably THE worst sources you could find on the internet lol. You probably aren't going to bother to even read my response below (as you never do), but I'll type in vain anyways

For your first article, it states that ICE had requested notification when he was being released so they could pick him up. Dude posted bail, sherriffs department faxed their notification, and they let him go. There was no 'ignoring officers pleas'. So he was initially arrested for car theft, weapons possession, etc. It is hear about the further crimes committed, and the loss of a life.

For your second 'article', which, I actually struggle to call it that since it's a full on blog, I can't find a single corroborating article that says anything about Estrada being an illegal. In fact in multiple articles he had no criminal background, worked for his fathers company in the city, blah blah. So he wasn't flagged, seemed like a 'good citizen', and then BAM murdered this guy. NONE of the sanctions would have protected the officer unfortunately. Is murder terrible? Absolutely. But because this guy is Hispanic and using that to blame all illegals for crime in the US is not right. That said, the charges seem justified, and it looks like he's facing the death penalty, so he will get his if convicted.

Now, in some vein, I actually agree with you. I agree with harsher punishments for crimes committed on bail (your first article), and deportation is an option when it comes to certain people. This isn't a solution though. And I still disagree with the underlined in my first post, because if you're allowed to deport anyone charged with a crime, what's to stop people from just laying down random charges? Or deporting people without a trial, what's to say there aren't legal measures being taken and they ignore them? It just seems like an abuse of power IMO. The right to a fair trial is something I value, and will always strive to uphold.

And this is the part of the problem that needs fixing. If you read the actual document the sheriff faxed, he was released at 11:30 pm and the doc faxed at 11:35pm. How in the world can ICE be there to pick anyone up with that kind of notification? Using the "We notified ICE" line is disingenuous and now someone is dead.

As far as a fair trial, they are not US citizens and if the crime is such that it will cost more to prosecute and jail than deporting, deport them.

 

[Dancing Fire]

For your second 'article', which, I actually struggle to call it that since it's a full on blog, I can't find a single corroborating article that says anything about Estrada being an illegal. In fact in multiple articles he had no criminal background, worked for his fathers company in the city, blah blah. So he wasn't flagged, seemed like a 'good citizen', and then BAM murdered this guy. NONE of the sanctions would have protected the officer unfortunately. Is murder terrible? Absolutely. But because this guy is Hispanic and using that to blame all illegals for crime in the US is not right. That said, the charges seem justified, and it looks like he's facing the death penalty, so he will get his if convicted.

Read the top of the article...
https://romancatholicimperialist.blogspot.com/2015/07/illegal-mexican-immigrant-mark-anthony.html

 

[telephone89]

And this is the part of the problem that needs fixing. If you read the actual document the sheriff faxed, he was released at 11:30 pm and the doc faxed at 11:35pm. How in the world can ICE be there to pick anyone up with that kind of notification? Using the "We notified ICE" line is disingenuous and now someone is dead.

As far as a fair trial, they are not US citizens and if the crime is such that it will cost more to prosecute and jail than deporting, deport them.

So how much time do they need? Have you been to Denver? It's not exactly 'yuge'. Plus I doubt there's much traffic at 11:30 pm anyways

I wouldn't even hate on this if it was prosecute and deport vs prosecute and jail. But at least prove they did something wrong first. If you read my last paragraph, it's about the abuse of power and the slippery slope it represents.

 

[Maria D]

Charged with a crime...

Convicted of a crime...


It is a crime to be in the country illegally. There is the loophole.
It is a crime to have forged documents or false identification in this country, which they would need to work. There is the loophole.

They will be rounding up whomever they can find. They will be grabbing the easy targets. The real criminals know how to hide. They also know how to easily make their way back over the border because they've already done it several times! These other people who are living here to work, and live, and raise children should be left alone. It is wasted resources to pick on them.

Ideally yes, productive peaceful people who are upholding values we hold dear should be allowed to stay. But if the fact that they are here illegally is ignored, what's the point of having laws? Congress needs to pass immigration reform that provides undocumented residents a path to citizenship.

 

[telephone89]

For your second 'article', which, I actually struggle to call it that since it's a full on blog, I can't find a single corroborating article that says anything about Estrada being an illegal. In fact in multiple articles he had no criminal background, worked for his fathers company in the city, blah blah. So he wasn't flagged, seemed like a 'good citizen', and then BAM murdered this guy. NONE of the sanctions would have protected the officer unfortunately. Is murder terrible? Absolutely. But because this guy is Hispanic and using that to blame all illegals for crime in the US is not right. That said, the charges seem justified, and it looks like he's facing the death penalty, so he will get his if convicted.

Read the top of the article...
https://romancatholicimperialist.blogspot.com/2015/07/illegal-mexican-immigrant-mark-anthony.html

The top of the BLOG as in the TITLE? No other actual ARTICLE says anything about his status. Except for the TITLE OF A BLOG. It is more likely the blog writer made it up. I'm happy to read other articles if you find they state the same info.

 

[redwood66]

Faxing before releasing would be helpful. I am sure that ICE agents in Denver are not sitting around watching the fax machine at 11:30 at night. What problem would it be holding him until the next day or two since they are aware he has broken the law by being here?

As far as prosecute before deporting, why in the world would we spend $ to prosecute if we know we are deporting them? That is the epitome of wasting taxpayer dollars.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Now, in some vein, I actually agree with you. I agree with harsher punishments for crimes committed on bail (your first article), and deportation is an option when it comes to certain people. This isn't a solution though. And I still disagree with the underlined in my first post, because if you're allowed to deport anyone charged with a crime, what's to stop people from just laying down random charges? Or deporting people without a trial, what's to say there aren't legal measures being taken and they ignore them? It just seems like an abuse of power IMO. The right to a fair trial is something I value, and will always strive to uphold.

I'm not talking about parking tickets. I'm referring to those people who committed a felony.

 

[telephone89]

Now, in some vein, I actually agree with you. I agree with harsher punishments for crimes committed on bail (your first article), and deportation is an option when it comes to certain people. This isn't a solution though. And I still disagree with the underlined in my first post, because if you're allowed to deport anyone charged with a crime, what's to stop people from just laying down random charges? Or deporting people without a trial, what's to say there aren't legal measures being taken and they ignore them? It just seems like an abuse of power IMO. The right to a fair trial is something I value, and will always strive to uphold.

I'm not talking about parking tickets. I'm referring to those people who committed a felony.

Okay great. The original article posted does not refer to what type of crime, simply 'crime'. You argued with me based on that, try specifying in the future so our fingers don't get so sore!

Again, anyone can be charged with anything really, but there are people falsely accused, or evidence exonerates them. I'm just saying, you should wait until after the trial before you make a decision. If that decision comes back that yes, he/she did it, then I think deportation should be on the table during sentencing.

 

[telephone89]

So I found the actual memo, but its a PDF and I cannot copy and paste. Here is the link, though if you've been active on NYT you might not be able to see it. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/02/21/us/politics/document-Trump-Immigration-Enforcement-Policies.html

I've read through the first half, will finish a bit later in the day when I have more time.