Trying to find a beautiful radiant cut. Help please?

[Serendipity99]

Hi everyone! I have been trying to find the best radiant cut (rectangle shape instead of 1 to 1 ratio) I can within a budget of 5 - 6k. I previously had a cushion cut that was likely a J color (EGL called it H, I beg to disagree). The warmth of the J next to the bright/cool diamonds in the halo setting around it drove me insane, so now I am on the hunt for a new diamond.

We returned the center stone and setting from the previous ring, so my thought is to spend the budget on the best stone we can with a simple solitaire setting this time and look at settings sometime down the road. I have learned from everyone here that cut is king, but I also don't want to go crazy looking at a difference in warm/cool tones years down the road when we can upgrade the setting.

I have looked on JamesAllen.com and GoodOldGold.com and nothing that is currently available amazes me, but I may be missing something.

Are there other sites I should look at that show the actual diamond? Does anyone have any recommendations for something I may have missed on the previously mentioned sites?

Thank you!

 

[Gypsy]

Your best bet is to call GOG or ERD and have them source a stone for you. Tell them you want one that has knock out performance verified by an ASET.
You may have to make a 100 shipping deposit.

I'll look on JA again for you.

 

[JulieN]

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/?DefaultOrder&TabSelected=3&ps=15&DiamondID=247131,295898,164159,138001

 

[Gypsy]

Remember to shop by spread not carat weight with fancies.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/1.02-carat-e-color-vs1-clarity-sku-142575 Lovely with crisp facets, best one. http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/0.91-carat-f-color-si1-clarity-sku-276045 admittedly one of my favorites.
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/1.20-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-sku-251545 Nice stone
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/1.20-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-sku-310929 Best dimensions but not sure the outside facets will light up well and has a little mush.
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/0.91-carat-e-color-vs2-clarity-sku-97575 Princess style radiant, so I threw it in, it's a nice one of this style
If eyeclean: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/1.00-carat-f-color-vs2-clarity-sku-251833
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/1.00-carat-f-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-198330 (remember what I said about spread. The 91 point F above is actually larger than this 1 carat).
Probably too square for you with 1.05 ratio, but gorgeous: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/1.02-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-178252

 

[Serendipity99]

Thank you!!

I have a question about clarity. On JA I am often able to see inclusions of one type or another even when it is VS2 or VS1. Should I assume I won't see those in a setting as it won't be on a white background (though I am pretty pale... . I have been looking at the report to see if the marks are in the center and often it seems that they are. Deal breaker?

Also, I looked up the "ideal" table/depth etc for radiant and different websites seem to differ on opinions. Which would you say is the definitive expert on that matter?

 

[Gypsy]

Anyone who even implies you can buy or even narrow a selection of radiants by the numbers is trying to impose an artificial and false sense of order on what is in fact, not orderly at all.

I'd throw out most of the numbers. They are meaningless.

Numbers tell you nothing about a Radiant

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king. With fancies though (anything other than a round brilliant), that is a little complicated. But no other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut.
But if the numbers don't help you, how do you evaluate the cut of fancies? Well, the answer to that is light performance and faceting.
So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.

That's what an ASET image does. http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=education-performance Please read.
And ASET shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return That is why you won't see us recommending vendors like Blue Nile, as they do not provide images or ASET images for their diamonds. James Allen and Good Old Gold do this. So do Brian Gavin and Whiteflash and High Performance Diamonds, but they have to call fancies in, as they do not stock them regularly.

The only stats worth noting are:
Avoid very thin girdles.
And if the depth is very deep (for radiants high sixties and low seventies are normal. Anything over that is overly deep) it will affect spread. Which is why I told you to watch the spread not the carat weight.

The rest... meaningless. You can get a nice radiant with just about any combo of depth and table. And polish is nice to stick to Very Good, but I wouldn't kick a stone out because it has only good polish. And symmetry... not very important at all in Radiants.

You need to shop for BRIGHT stones with facets that are crisp and light up and flash well as they move.

Radiants are a LOT like EC's. See here:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gorgeous-kruppy-ec-for-the-brave-and-why-ec-numbers-lie.201227/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gorgeous-kruppy-ec-for-the-brave-and-why-ec-numbers-lie.201227/[/URL]

That stone pretty much breaks all the EC number guides. And yet it is a lovely stone with great performance. And as you can see... it's a stone that a number of people on PS would be happy to wear.

Fancies are not quantifiable. Asking me to recommend stats to you is asking me to give you bad advice.

Pick the 3 nicest stones that look the BRIGHTEST to you the among the stones we posted. Pick the ones with the faceting that appeals to you most. Keep in mind their spread (not carat weight). And just watch the videos a few times for each stone, stop and start them, watch them move carefully. And then when you know which ones you like... put them on hold at JA. And ask for ASETs. They will take 3 days and then you can post them here and we'll help you pick one.

 

[Gypsy]

On clarity. as long as the stone is eyeclean you are fine at Si1 and above. And that's what I stuck to for you. Radiants hide inclusions very well, and white inclusions, no matter where they are on radiants are rarely eye visible.

All but one of the stones I picked for you are VS or better. And there is NO risk to durability or they would not be VS stones. So you are perfectly safe with ALL of them. And the one SI1, if you decide you want to make one of your chosen three... you can ask the gemologist about it, but I'm pretty sure it will be eyeclean.

This was the only one I was not sure of in terms of being eyeclean is this one : http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/1.00-carat-f-color-vs2-clarity-sku-251833 and that's only because the inclusions are black crystals.

When you narrow your choices, you would ask the gemologist to let you know if the stones you are interested in are eyeclean. But all of them I chose should be (except for that 1.00 stone).

 

[Serendipity99]

Thank you Gypsy! I'll spend some quality time with the diamond videos.

 

[Gypsy]

If I had to narrow the choices for you those these are the ones I absolutely would get an ASET of:

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/1.02-carat-e-color-vs1-clarity-sku-142575 Extremely bright. Nice contrast zones. Nice mix of small and large facet flashes. Really nice rectangular outline and very nearly 5x7 in spread.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/1.20-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-sku-251545 Everything about this stone is well balanced. It's actually got my favorite faceting of all the stones. Lots of broad and small flashes of light. It is a little fatter than the E above with the 1.23 ratio, but still very much a rectangle. I really like this stone. It's just an exceptionally cut stone, I think.

So those are the ones I'd definitely chose to ASET.

So I would tell you to put those 2 on hold now. And then add a third one that you like from the remainder of my choices and Julie's choices tomorrow or so.

 

[Serendipity99]

Just as an update I did place the two most recommended on hold and requested ASETS:

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/1.02-carat-e-color-vs1-clarity-sku-142575
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/1.20-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-sku-251545

I wasn't falling in love with the other options so (maybe this wasn't smart..) asked the rep on the online JA chat what her thoughts were on a third and of the few she put forth I chose this one:

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/1.02-carat-f-color-vs1-clarity-sku-72487

Now the more I look the more I think I made a mistake not taking only from the others recommended in this post. Thoughts? Did I waste my third choice?

I'm obsessing, I know.. I just really want to get it right this time.

Also, as a note, I asked for the gemologist to comment on light performance, fire, presence of bowties, if there is any negative effect from the fluorescence in 142575 (doubt it but figured I should ask, especially as it is my current fave) and the eye cleanliness of each. I also asked that they confirm the radiants are cut based on the RB cut instead of princess. Did I forget anything?

 

[JulieN]

They are all crushed ice and my prediction is the asets will be somewhat disappointing if you are used to ideal cut princess and round asets. Lower your expectations for radiants. Ithink the E is the nicest of the three.

 

[Serendipity99]

Julie, I was going for the radiant as truly, the only diamond cuts I want to stay away from are heart and princess. As my fiance likes straight lines for diamonds (he has odd hang ups..) it seemed that the radiant was best as my understanding is that it is cut with the most sparkle and that has straight lines, excluding the princess. Am I mistaken?

I am not a fan of princess as I don't personally feel called to a square shape, so that is why I avoid the square radiant (although they do seem to show the arrow/hearts more).

As you said I should lower my expectations it made me wonder if there is a better alternative?

 

[Gypsy]

The third one isn't my favorite. But it's not terrible. I do think it's got a very small number of dark facets across the center though.

Radiants are supposed to have crushed ice faceting. But there is 'total chaos" crushed ice. And there is ordered facets that fire large and small crushed ice. The first E and H are the later. The new stone, the F isn't total chaos, but it does have a little less order and more splintery facets than the other two.



Your man doesn't like ovals huh? That's too bad because GOG has an oval I am smitten with right now. http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/11794/ $5,559.00 and I like this one too: http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/11849/

And BOTH of those will look bigger than an radiant (ovals are spready, they look the same or bigger than just about any other cut except for marquise at the same carat weight).

 

[Gypsy]

What I think Julie meant when it comes to lowering your expectations is this:

There are very few fancies (non-round brilliants) that are cut for ideal light performance. Most of them are branded. And most of them are princesses, square cushions, or different rounds (extra facet or old cut faceting). Some rectangular cushions are as well, and again they are branded and antique faceted.

The only radiant that I KNOW OF that are cut for light performance are almost all squares. So the Princess of Hearts is an example of this.

Most ovals, rectangles (cushion or emerald or radiant, marquise are NOT cut for ideal light return. And many will fall short of that level of light return.

BUT you can get some stones, rarely and through good vendors like GOG who are known for finding fantastic fancies, that do have excellent light return. But they these stones are few and far between and take some selecting.

So you if you are used to bright red ASETs of ideal light performance stones, you will be disappointed by the largely green ASETs of most fancies. STILL, that doesn't mean you should settle for something less than one of the nicest radiant out there. But you should keep in mind that what the definition of a nice radiant is isn't going to be the same as what an ideal light performance stone is going to be. Radiants, like all fancies have personalities. So you balance personality and performance and faceting. And you may find that NONE of the JA stones are going to ASET out great. It's always a possibility.

Just because those radiants are the nicest that JA has to offer doesn't mean that they are going to be ones you should buy. You may find that you still need to work with GOG to have them source a great stone for you.

It's just a much harder process to find a great fancy. And can take time.

 

[Serendipity99]

To be fair to my fiance, he has told me numerous times that I can get whatever I want (within budget) and he just wants me to love it. So really, my decision to go radiant is more my attempt to make it more "us" versus just me.

That said, I admit I am pretty tempted by by pears, ovals and emeralds.. even RBs sometimes. In a perfect world I would get an OMC or OEC but I think I am a bit too much of a novice to try to go that route. That will be a long study and hard earned down the road.

I am grateful for all this information though. I have studied up a bit on the looks of radiants and am definitely still learning but at least I am more prepared for the ASET results!