Type iib D color diamond

[sassyanme]

Good afternoon, I went shopping with my fiance last month and was shown a GIA diamond with a accompanying letter, type iib that was D in color and VVS1. The salesman who showed us the diamond said it was very, very rare to have a colorless diamond that was type iib. We figured he was just hyping up the stone and chose another one. When I got home, I started
researching type iib diamonds and I couldn't find anything on colorless diamonds only blue or grey. I'm thinking I should have bought it. Was he right when he said this diamond was very, very rare?

 

[SomethingNew]

Type IIa is actually more desirable I believe. I haven't seen a type IIb IRL. Any diamond of all shades can be tested for the type, but often time you see it in D color diamonds is because it is worthwhile for the supplier to pay extra for GIA for the test/cert, and they can charge a premium with the second cert. Most supplier do not usually do that on other colors (except of course in the valuable color diamonds like the pinks and the blues). A "D" color is already super white but again it goes back to whether you will appreciate AND willing to pay for the premium, especially it's not like you are going to wear the cert on you. It goes back to mindclean vs eyeclean debate. I searched high and low for a type IIa before, and in hindsight, I feel like I might have overpaid for something I cannot really appreciate with my naked eye. But then again, I never seconded my decision because it is something I had always wanted in my collection.

 

[sassyanme]

My understanding is that GIA test for all types of diamonds when submitted. The price was similar to other diamonds graded the same. I haven't been able to find anything on the internet regarding colorless type iib diamonds. I believe that all type iib contain boron which would make it blue or grey. Also the % of type iib diamonds found is less than half of .1% mined, consisting of blue and grey diamonds. Type iia are 1 to 2% mined.

 

[kenny]

Before I'd pay a penny extra for 2b, I'd need to know that it was GIA itself that determined it was 2b.
I wouldn't take any seller's word for it.
Too much money at stake.

As the saying goes, trust but verify.
Ans as that other saying goes, 2b or not 2b.

That assurance would mean seeing the laminated document from GIA stating 2b
I'd also personally verify the document was legit with a phone call to GIA itself.

Of course 2b is science thing and determined by laboratory equipment.
Since I don't think we could see the difference between a D and a D that is 2b, that would make it another mind-clean thing.

Nothing wrong with that.
2b is a real thing, and a very rare thing indeed.

 

[lovedogs]

Before I'd pay a penny extra for 2b, I'd need to know that it was GIA itself that determined it was 2b.
I wouldn't take any seller's word for it.
Too much money at stake.

As the saying goes, trust but verify.
Ans as that other saying goes, 2b or not 2b.

That assurance would mean seeing the laminated document from GIA stating 2b
I'd also personally verify the document was legit with a phone call to GIA itself.

Of course 2b is science thing and determined by laboratory equipment.
Since I don't think we could see the difference between a D and a D that is 2b, that would make it another mind-clean thing.

Nothing wrong with that.
2b is a real thing, and a very rare thing indeed.

Agree with all of this.

 

[sassyanme]

Thanks Kenny, I did see the actual GIA report and accompanying letter saying that it was a type iib diamond. I'm curious if any of the experts can chime in on this topic as it has peaked my interest. I am going back tomorrow to see if they still have the diamond. My question is how rare is it to get a colorless type iib diamond? Thanks in advance!

 

[SomethingNew]

The letter should reference to the GIA report number and ideally the diamond should have the laser inscriptions to match the GIA number.

Good luck with your search.

 

[foxinsox]

Thanks Kenny, I did see the actual GIA report and accompanying letter saying that it was a type iib diamond. I'm curious if any of the experts can chime in on this topic as it has peaked my interest. I am going back tomorrow to see if they still have the diamond. My question is how rare is it to get a colorless type iib diamond? Thanks in advance!

Wikipedia says that Type IIB are about 0.1% of all diamonds therefore very rare and valuable.

Diamond type - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[oldminer]

A IIB diamond is rare and valuable if it is a blue diamond. It is not anything to get excited about if it is a colorless diamond. Something seems off with the way the diamond was represented. Type IIB diamonds conduct electricity due to the trace elements which make them blue tinted. Don't go down the rabbit hole of rarity on something that requires trusted laboratory confirmation.

 

[sassyanme]

Thanks Dave for the advice. The diamond is no longer available. It had a GIA cert and a separate diamond type classification for the GIA report. It was determined by GIA to be a type iib diamond. So Dave, do you know of any colorless iib that are available to purchase? I have tried to find out any information on one to purchase but to no avail. Can you please put me in contact with someone who sells them. What's interesting is that everything I have read is that they are common in blue and grey but don't mention anything about being colorless. I appreciate your years of knowledge and advice. Thanks so much!

 

[kenny]

Don't go down the rabbit hole of rarity on something that requires trusted laboratory confirmation.

Huh?
Don't trust GIA?

Please expand and clarify this.

 

[Karl_K]

Huh?
Don't trust GIA?

Please expand and clarify this.

Colorless D grade they are no more valuable than any other D color diamond.
That is the rabbit hole. wow its rare it must be more valuable is not always the case.

 

[kenny]

Colorless D grade they are no more valuable than any other D color diamond.
That is the rabbit hole. wow its rare it must be more valuable is not always the case.

What about, "things are worth what people will pay"?

Even a regular D is worth more than a regular E because people will pay more for a D.
Is that a rabbit hole too?

IOW, I'm still missing something.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Diamond typing is a procedure done routinely at major laboratories as part of the process of identifying synthetics. However, it has historically not been a value factor to any extent in the broad market. Therefore, this information is not automatically conveyed to the submitter, and most manufacturers and dealers do not request this information.

There seems to be a small subset of shoppers for D IF diamonds that are now interested in the IIa designation, and presumably willing to pay extra for it. But the premium, to the extent there is one, is limited to the extra costs involved.

While D color type IIb diamonds might be significantly rarer still, the demand for such would likely be even rarer. Seeking them out at this point would be an exercise in frustration. Perhaps some day diamond type will be noted on lab reports by default, in which case it would be easier for a consumer interested in collecting a certain type to shop them.

As a submicroscopic property that has no practical impacts, I don't think there is a rational basis for diamond type as a market based criteria in buying decisions, in any but select situations. However, collectors are a different breed and "they want what they want". If it helps you enjoy the diamond more, it is a worthy quest I suppose.

 

[sassyanme]

Wow, now I'm confused. So then what's the point of GIA classifying different types of diamonds if it doesn't really matter. Type iia D appear whiter than a typical type i D since they contain only carbon and are the purest of all diamonds. My understanding is there is a premium of 5% to 10% for a type iia D FL/IF. So basically all types of diamonds are the same price excluding color diamonds? Also why can't you find any type iib colorless diamonds on the market?

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Wow, now I'm confused. So then what's the point of GIA classifying different types of diamonds if it doesn't really matter. Type iia D appear whiter than a typical type i D since they contain only carbon and are the purest of all diamonds. My understanding is there is a premium of 5% to 10% for a type iia D FL/IF. So basically all types of diamonds are the same price excluding color diamonds? Also why can't you find any type iib colorless diamonds on the market?

@sassyanme ,
I understand your confusion. We think of diamond prices as being largely predicated on rarity factors.. And certain diamond types are far more rare than others. But market behavior does not always adhere completely to our expectations.

The point of doing type analysis is to help separate natural from synthetic diamonds.

Some make the theoretical argument that D color type II diamonds are "more pure" because they contain negligible amounts of nitrogen and might therefore be expected to be even "more colorless" than more common D color type Ia. There is no actual evidence that this is the case. Or if there is, I am not aware of it.

But there is a rarity difference, and combined with the theoretical speculation above, some shoppers of D FL or D IF diamonds might be willing to pay a 5-10% premium. Although it is very hard to get a precise grip on that market because it is so small. If you have seen evidence of it in your shopping and could share, I would be quite interested. We sell a fair number of D IF diamonds and it's always important to understand the competitive landscape.

 

[oldminer]

Important size D color diamonds that test out as IIA types are reported by GIA they are known as "Golconda" diamonds and can bring a premium from a small number of aficionados that might also be called 'collectors". I have never seen any particular interest in IIB diamonds if there was not some shade of Blue color also visible. All blue mined diamonds are type IIB and all are semi-conductors due to boron in their atomic structure. I don't see any importance to IIB colorless diamonds. There is no known special market for them that I am aware of.

Someone could make up their own mind about finding a very rare type of diamond, but that doesn't constitute a market or a demand for more of the same. I'd sure like to see the GIA report on the diamond in question. The report itself would be unusual.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

As a general concept, you can think of the relevance of diamond type to the broad market as you might think of the Flawless grade in particular. Fl and IF are defined as no inclusions visible to a trained grader at 10 power magnification. But if you raised the power to 15x and could see something, would that diamond be worth less than another IF that you had to raise to 30x to see anything? Theoretically the second stone is rarer. But from a market perspective there is no difference.

 

[SomethingNew]

Here is an example of Type IIa not necessarily has to be colorless and FL grade.

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Beautiful diamond at a drop dead price, whoever bought this is super lucky. This is an example of someone who will appreciate the color and just everything about this diamond first, then the type should only be secondary as a bonus. But to find this type of diamond at this price again could be nearly impossible.

I agree with previous posts, it may not be worth it to go down the rabbit hole.

 

[SomethingNew]

Diamond typing is a procedure done routinely at major laboratories as part of the process of identifying synthetics. However, it has historically not been a value factor to any extent in the broad market. Therefore, this information is not automatically conveyed to the submitter, and most manufacturers and dealers do not request this information.

There seems to be a small subset of shoppers for D IF diamonds that are now interested in the IIa designation, and presumably willing to pay extra for it. But the premium, to the extent there is one, is limited to the extra costs involved.

While D color type IIb diamonds might be significantly rarer still, the demand for such would likely be even rarer. Seeking them out at this point would be an exercise in frustration. Perhaps some day diamond type will be noted on lab reports by default, in which case it would be easier for a consumer interested in collecting a certain type to shop them.

As a submicroscopic property that has no practical impacts, I don't think there is a rational basis for diamond type as a market based criteria in buying decisions, in any but select situations. However, collectors are a different breed and "they want what they want". If it helps you enjoy the diamond more, it is a worthy quest I suppose.

@Texas Leaguer, I am curious, if diamond typing is a standard procedure, and if the stone was already tested as "Type II a or b", why do you think online retailers don't post the letter as well? Since most online retailers already posting the GIA cert anyway. Is it because like you said the population looking for this specific diamond type is small?

And does AGS lab identify diamond type as a typical process, if so, does it say so on the report or as a separate letter like GIA?

 

[sassyanme]

Actually some retailers post type iia diamonds for sale with accompanying letters. One in particular is rafjewels.com, they have a page just for type iia diamonds, D Flawless stones. I guess the cool thing would have been to say I have a type iib diamond, but since it's sold it doesn't matter. I'm curious Bryan if you have ever seen or have any type iib colorless diamonds for sale? Thanks again for all the great information!

 

[Texas Leaguer]

@Texas Leaguer, I am curious, if diamond typing is a standard procedure, and if the stone was already tested as "Type II a or b", why do you think online retailers don't post the letter as well? Since most online retailers already posting the GIA cert anyway. Is it because like you said the population looking for this specific diamond type is small?

And does AGS lab identify diamond type as a typical process, if so, does it say so on the report or as a separate letter like GIA?

Yes, diamond typing is a standard back-end procedure at the major labs. Part of the process of flagging synthetics and treated diamonds.

Retailers don't post the type because the labs do not provide that information in a standard report. Manufacturers and dealers would have to specifically ask for typing documentation, which may involve additional cost and, in most cases, not provide much added value to the consumer. Or at least that is the way it is currently seen in the trade.

With regard to the process at AGS, a submitter can request the type to be included under Comments on the report, as opposed to a separate document.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Actually some retailers post type iia diamonds for sale with accompanying letters. One in particular is rafjewels.com, they have a page just for type iia diamonds, D Flawless stones. I guess the cool thing would have been to say I have a type iib diamond, but since it's sold it doesn't matter. I'm curious Bryan if you have ever seen or have any type iib colorless diamonds for sale? Thanks again for all the great information!

I was actually not aware of type IIb colorless diamonds, so I appreciate your bringing that forward.

I have meanwhile inquired with my contacts at the labs and it seems type IIb diamonds in the D-Z range are quite rare. Based on a recent GIA review, only 0.02% were type IIb. So a D color type IIb would be quite rare indeed.

That said, the extent to which it may add to the market value of a given diamond is uncertain, and is probably situational.

 

[denverappraiser]

Rarity is a relatively easy thing to create. Diamonds mined on a Tuesday under a full moon, for example. That’s rare as hell and, if someone were to put in a bit of effort, it’s a fact, and with work it's possible to set up a paper trail where they could ‘prove’ it. Authenticated by an astronomer or something. Is that valuable? Maybe. If some customer is looking for it then it is. I remember seeing a story of a Hollywood celebrity who bought a diamond for big money that was “found in a spirit cave in Africa”. I’m not even sure what that means but they paid a healthy premium to get it.

Should you pay extra for a 2b? I wouldn’t. Someone else might. YMMV.

 

[SomethingNew]

I see this as a sizable market worth to squeeze, especially the market seems very competitive and doesn't seem too costly to create such new service to customers to stay being "unique". Of course there are not that many looking for the Kim Kardashian's type of rare 20+ carat D/FL Type IIa diamonds (I am only making presumptions here, there could be a lot here on PS that maybe in the market for those)... but there are people like me looking for a much smaller size, like a 1 +/- carat Type II, or warm color Type II. As long as Hollywood is raving about these Type II diamonds, there will be more and more people interested in them. Again, not sure if general public can appreciate the difference in appearance, but they will feel better because they "paid" a premium for it (like me...)

Although i am not sure how many will pay extra for something "found in a spirited cave".... that's a good one.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Why labs test routinely for diamond type, in a chart.

With the overwhelming number of natural diamonds being type I and the overwhelming number of synthetic or HTHP diamonds being type II, it's easy to see why this test is of critical importance to the identification process.

All type II diamonds identified are then referred for further testing.

 

[sassyanme]

Bryan, that's a great chart, thank you. I found this on type iib, they absorb reds, oranges and yellow light. also that they are blue or grey color, though sometimes can be colorless. If only a handful of blue diamonds are found each year then I have to believe it might only be one colorless diamond a year if that. Bryan, are any of your contacts able to precure a type iib? I would definitely be interested in buying one. I'm kicking myself for not buying it and holding on to it to start a collection of all types of diamonds,

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Bryan, that's a great chart, thank you. I found this on type iib, they absorb reds, oranges and yellow light. also that they are blue or grey color, though sometimes can be colorless. If only a handful of blue diamonds are found each year then I have to believe it might only be one colorless diamond a year if that. Bryan, are any of your contacts able to precure a type iib? I would definitely be interested in buying one. I'm kicking myself for not buying it and holding on to it to start a collection of all types of diamonds,

@sassyanme ,
First, per forum rules, as a trade member I cannot solicit business or engage any any type of discussion about sourcing diamonds for you.

But I will say the a quest for a colorless type IIb is a quest to find a needle in a haystack, and few if any merchants would entertain that search.

For someone looking to increase the rarity factor of a diamond purchase, searching for a type IIa is a more achievable goal. Type IIa represent less than 1% of diamonds in the D-Z range. If you further specify D IF, then you could see the rarity factor increase dramatically.

 

[sassyanme]

Bryan, I apologize for asking, I didn't realize that I couldn't per the rules. I thank you for all your information, as it was most helpful and appreciated!

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Bryan, I apologize for asking, I didn't realize that I couldn't per the rules. I thank you for all your information, as it was most helpful and appreciated!

No worries @sassyanme , many posters are unaware of the rules governing trade participation. They are designed to keep trade posts educational and not promotional, and serve to keep the community a healthy place to learn and to share.