Ugly Gemstone

[Deengee]

i ve bought a sapphire that is so cheap and ugly.. I was told that the sapphire is from Kashmir.. It is unheat and no treatment.. The colour is so dark and ugly. The only positive thing is the size of the sapphire which is nearly 9 carat.. I have no problem with the appearance because i got it cheap.. But i really hope that the sapphire is from Kashmir.. My questions:

1. With it dark ugly included appearance, can gemologist determine the origin correctly.?
2. If this ugly, dark included sapphire is really from Kashmir and without any treatment, how much the estimated value can be.?

 

[OreoRosies86]

The only way to know treatment and origin is to send it to a lab such as AGL for testing, they will be able to analyze the stone regardless of its appearance. The stone will then be able to be appraised accordingly once proper documentation accompanies it. Until it’s certified by a professional it’s not really worth anything, and even after being certified it would only be worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. Are the inclusions surface reaching, will they affect the stone’s ability to be set into jewelry etc. For most serious collectors, color is king so you have to be realistic about that if you’re trying to sell.

 

[Roselina]

Why did you buy it?

 

[Deengee]

The only way to know treatment and origin is to send it to a lab such as AGL for testing, they will be able to analyze the stone regardless of its appearance. The stone will then be able to be appraised accordingly once proper documentation accompanies it. Until it’s certified by a professional it’s not really worth anything, and even after being certified it would only be worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. Are the inclusions surface reaching, will they affect the stone’s ability to be set into jewelry etc. For most serious collectors, color is king so you have to be realistic about that if you’re trying to sell.

Emm thank you.. AGL is a very illustrious lab.. I will send it to my local lab first and see what they are going to say.. Then i ll consider to send it top labs like AGL..

 

[Deengee]

Why did you buy it?

Emm i bought it just for the sake of having kashmir sapphire.. I m not going to sell it.. I want kashmir sapphire so much because of its prestige.. A cheap ugly kashnir sapphire will do for me..

 

[LilAlex]

It looks completely opaque. Origin is assigned based on the presence of characteristic inclusions. I'm not sure how one would make that assessment in an opaque stone. Maybe post a photo of it transilluminated? Perhaps these are bad photos and it is a glorious deep but transparent blue (I doubt it, and of course very un-Kashmir-like). But if that were the case, I suspect you would not be so unhappy with it.

There is no inexpensive Kashmir sapphire worth owning. This is like buying the charred remains of a torched sports car because you've always dreamed of owning a Porsche. The name means nothing; it's the name + an actual instance of the type that is representative of the features that made the type famous and desirable.

You can get a fairly attractive heated, included, non-prestige-origin sapphire in the 1 - 2 ct range for not a ton of money. I have a couple of lovely unheated Ceylons and Burmas but I doubt I will ever have a Kashmir. Or a Bugatti.

For most of us, the first rule of gems is to buy something that is attractive. For a handful of us it's more like stamp-collecting but most of us would rather get another pretty example of something we already have than an unappealing example of something we don't.

 

[Bron357]

As with all things, when they are beautiful they are more desirable.
While origin and treatment status matter, if the gem is a poor example it is less desirable / less valuable.
Kashmir sapphires are revered not for their origin per see but for their mesmerizing blue hue combined with an almost magic glow created by their unique microscopic particles. That’s what is rare and that is what people pay the big $$$$$ for. So having an origin of Kashmir matters little if it doesn’t “look like” the revered and desired legendary blue sapphire.
Treatment status matters because modern science can turn ugly gems into beautiful gems. What’s rare and desirable are gems that are naturally beautiful. So untreated status means little if the gem itself has no other merits.
So an unheated sapphire from Kashmir that is essentially an opaque dark blob has little appeal to most purchasers and therefore is of limited value.

 

[Deengee]

It looks completely opaque. Origin is assigned based on the presence of characteristic inclusions. I'm not sure how one would make that assessment in an opaque stone. Maybe post a photo of it transilluminated? Perhaps these are bad photos and it is a glorious deep but transparent blue (I doubt it, and of course very un-Kashmir-like). But if that were the case, I suspect you would not be so unhappy with it.

There is no inexpensive Kashmir sapphire worth owning. This is like buying the charred remains of a torched sports car because you've always dreamed of owning a Porsche. The name means nothing; it's the name + an actual instance of the type that is representative of the features that made the type famous and desirable.

You can get a fairly attractive heated, included, non-prestige-origin sapphire in the 1 - 2 ct range for not a ton of money. I have a couple of lovely unheated Ceylons and Burmas but I doubt I will ever have a Kashmir. Or a Bugatti.

For most of us, the first rule of gems is to buy something that is attractive. For a handful of us it's more like stamp-collecting but most of us would rather get another pretty example of something we already have than an unappealing example of something we don't.

Emm when the stone is torched, we can see this kind of opacity..

 

[Deengee]

As with all things, when they are beautiful they are more desirable.
While origin and treatment status matter, if the gem is a poor example it is less desirable / less valuable.
Kashmir sapphires are revered not for their origin per see but for their mesmerizing blue hue combined with an almost magic glow created by their unique microscopic particles. That’s what is rare and that is what people pay the big $$$$$ for. So having an origin of Kashmir matters little if it doesn’t “look like” the revered and desired legendary blue sapphire.
Treatment status matters because modern science can turn ugly gems into beautiful gems. What’s rare and desirable are gems that are naturally beautiful. So untreated status means little if the gem itself has no other merits.
So an unheated sapphire from Kashmir that is essentially an opaque dark blob has little appeal to most purchasers and therefore is of limited value.

Emm you are right, but as mentioned before, i ve no problem with its ugly appearance.. I love your expert opinion. Very much appreciated.. One day if i ve enough money, i ll get the real Kashmiri lol..

 

[JackTrick]

If the origin is important, I’d send it to a more reputable lab. Local labs (I have found) are not as good at determining origin.

 

[Snowdrop13]

Troll alert, surely? Given previous posts.

 

[Autumn in New England]

There is no inexpensive Kashmir sapphire worth owning. This is like buying the charred remains of a torched sports car because you've always dreamed of owning a Porsche. The name means nothing; it's the name + an actual instance of the type that is representative of the features that made the type famous and desirable.

I was trying to find an eloquent way of saying this and on-point analogy, but you came through as always. lol

At the GIA, they really wanted to drive home this point: A gem's value and desirability are based on beauty, durability, and rarity. So the reason Kashmir sapphires are so collectible is because of a combination of those factors. I think most of us would rather have a good or great specimen from another locale than a fair or even poor specimen with a prestigious origin. But the thing that concerns me most here is, how do we even know this stone is from Kashmir? As you said, @LilAlex, there will need to be identifiable characteristics for a lab to make that determination. I don't know how much OP paid, but I would also worry about lattice diffusion here, because those backlit photos can be very telling.

The last thing I want to do is ruin your fun, OP, because, ultimately, that is what's important. We're just looking out for you and want to make sure your money has been well-spent. Very few of us can afford a fine Kashmir sapphire of substantial size. Whatever you decide to do, I hope it brings you enjoyment!

 

[Deengee]

If the origin is important, I’d send it to a more reputable lab. Local labs (I have found) are not as good at determining origin.

Emm kk.. Sound like a plan.. I ll try with a better lab first..

 

[Deengee]

Troll alert, surely? Given previous posts.

Emm i m not trolling.. But thats me.. Deep from my heart..

 

[Deengee]

I was trying to find an eloquent way of saying this and on-point analogy, but you came through as always. lol

At the GIA, they really wanted to drive home this point: A gem's value and desirability are based on beauty, durability, and rarity. So the reason Kashmir sapphires are so collectible is because of a combination of those factors. I think most of us would rather have a good or great specimen from another locale than a fair or even poor specimen with a prestigious origin. But the thing that concerns me most here is, how do we even know this stone is from Kashmir? As you said, @LilAlex, there will need to be identifiable characteristics for a lab to make that determination. I don't know how much OP paid, but I would also worry about lattice diffusion here, because those backlit photos can be very telling.

The last thing I want to do is ruin your fun, OP, because, ultimately, that is what's important. We're just looking out for you and want to make sure your money has been well-spent. Very few of us can afford a fine Kashmir sapphire of substantial size. Whatever you decide to do, I hope it brings you enjoyment!

Emm if it came out not an unheat no treatment stone.. I ll ban myself from the seller forever lol..

 

[LilAlex]

Well, from the transilluminated photos above -- and thank you for providing those -- at least we know it's not basalt.

Maybe someone could make an origin determination based on that -- but I doubt a top lab would. OTOH, there are plenty of inclusions to choose from... And, as we said, at that "quality level," the origin is not really relevant.

As above, I do not think it warrants the investment in a top lab report. If you bought it for three figures, enjoy.