Update on OEC

[AnnaH]

Two jewelers looked at the oec. No problems. It is an old diamond. They didn’t see anything without a loupe. One thought the SI/L was close. One thought It could be as low as I1/m. Both thought it was a beautiful diamond. If it’s an I1/M do you think I overpaid at $9700?

Some more photos, not great but maybe a little better. Right to left a CZ, which I assume is colorless, H, K, L (maybe). The brown tint is from the brown table In front of the window. I should have covered the table.

 

[lulu_ma]

I *think* this would be close to retail price of a M/I1. I hope others chime on pricing.

Is this for a ring or pendant? If for a ring, what kind of setting? Prong solitaire, halo, or bezel?

Take a look at this video, all of these stones are 2 ct K color. The video gives a good, quick snapshot of spready versus non-spready OECs.

Jewels by Whitney on Instagram: "All four of these diamonds are 1.Old European Cuts 2. Two carats and above, 3. GIA Certified, and 4. “K”color! Diamonds Featured✨ 2.18 carat K/VVS2 $17,500 2.33 carat K/SI2 $15,000 2.01 carar K/SI1 $13,500 2.07 car

606 likes, 29 comments - jewelsbywhitney on June 21, 2022: "All four of these diamonds are 1.Old European Cuts 2. Two carats and above, 3. GIA Certified, and 4. “K”color! Diamonds Featured✨ 2.18 carat K/VVS2 $17,500 2.33 carat K/SI2 $15,000 2.01 carar K/SI1 $13,500 2.07 carat K/SI1 $13,500...

www.instagram.com

 

[AnnaH]

Hi, Lulu. In person, my diamond looks very similar to those pictured. I’ve not been able to demonstrate that with pics.

 

[AnnaH]

For a ring, solitaire setting. Six prongs.

 

[lulu_ma]

Hi, Lulu. In person, my diamond looks very similar to those pictured. I’ve not been able to demonstrate that with pics.

Oh-the best of that bunch in the one in the lower left corner. The others are kind of spready…

I also bought a spready stone but I put her in a halo which helped her performance…

 

[AnnaH]

Your diamond is certainly impressive, Lulu.

 

[lulu_ma]

Your diamond is certainly impressive, Lulu.

Thanks AnnaH. Oh-I meant my old OEC in the Deco halo. My new OEC is super deep.
It sounds like you love the OEC-which is great! You have to go with your gut.

 

[AnnaH]

Yes, I knew you meant a second diamond. Both are amazing. What is the carat weight?
I am still undecided. Thanks for your input.

 

[lulu_ma]

My halo'ed OEC is 4.11 ct but spread like a 5 ct. In my case, I knew that I could have to spend 75% more to get a comparable 5 ct stone.

In your case, I think you can a stone you are really excited within your budget. I feel Diana from Sin City Finds has a really good eye, too.

 

[AnnaH]

Lulu, both your diamond rings are PS worthy. Ha! You must have done a very good deal on your halo ring. Where did you find that big girl?
I think a comparable diamond to mine would be at least 12k.
Something similar to my present stone (which is very nice) but about 2.5 carats would be at least 18k, I think.
I agree with your assessment of the four diamonds in the video. Best one has that well defined pattern. I sometimes briefly see that in my new stone, but more often it looks like the spready ones. My smaller stone consistently shows the nice pattern.
Yes, I’ve looked at Sincityfinds. But I don’t think I could be quick enough to buy there.
If I decided to double the price of my current stone, it would definitely be something very nice, but I’m not sure that’s what I want to do when I have this one available.

 

[lulu_ma]

The Sin City Finds 2.5 ct is still available!

My 4.11 is from Alex Park

 

[AnnaH]

Will take a look. Thought it sold.

 

[AnnaH]

Couldn’t find info, except SI,1 and KL, which is all good. I think Sweetpea mentioned a story with video, but I couldn’t find that.

 

[lulu_ma]

Couldn’t find info, except SI,1 and KL, which is all good. I think Sweetpea mentioned a story with video, but I couldn’t find that.

The stories expire after 24 hours. It's $13K. Here are links to the posts:

on Instagram: "Update: All sold, or pending sale. Having a little sell a ton on my stories!. I'm gonna be headed out of the country and not sure if I'll be posting or not so come and get it! . I will be back in July! #sincityfinds #jewelrycollectors

1,091 likes, 27 comments - sincityfinds on June 12, 2022: "Update: All sold, or pending sale. Having a little sell a ton on my stories!. I'm gonna be headed out of the country and not sure if I'll be posting or not so come and get it! . I will be back in July! #sincityfinds #jewelrycollectors...

www.instagram.com

on Instagram: "Ps. I will be on Vacation till the end of the month. Will be back in July! Little halo and oec with rubies are available:) #sincityfinds #jewelryshop"

512 likes, 8 comments - sincityfinds on June 12, 2022: "Ps. I will be on Vacation till the end of the month. Will be back in July! Little halo and oec with rubies are available:) #sincityfinds #jewelryshop".

www.instagram.com

 

[AnnaH]

Left message of interest. She’s on vacation.

 

[AnnaH]

Showed diamond to a couple of more jewelers. Everyone agrees eye clean. Everyone says it’s a beautiful stone. Most think it’s SI. More disagreement on color, anywhere from j to m. My guess is L.

 

[yssie]

Do *you* love this stone?
I read back through your other thread and I can't tell!

 

[lulu_ma]

Huge Clearout (an attempt anyways)

Hello fellow bling lovers :wavey: I am not sure if during the current climate my pieces will be able to find new, loving homes. But with major home renovations on the horizon, it doesn't hurt to try. =)2 I will most likely create a mass listing on LT with complete details and images. But until...

www.pricescope.com

Check out the 2.11 ct GIA L/SI1 !

 

[AnnaH]

Yssie, I can see why you ask and appreciate your interest. I’ve been very undecided, which is uncommon for me. I, at the very least, like it very much. It’s somewhat big (not by PS measure, but in most circles) and very sparkling, very pretty. I certainly don’t want to overpay. Best I can figure, it’s a fair price.
I think I’m a little afraid of a lower quality stone than what I’m accustomed to, that I’ll find fault later on. But right now, I guess I kinda love it.

 

[AnnaH]

Thanks, Lulu. Will look.

 

[yssie]

I, at the very least, like it very much.

Ultimately this is the only thing that matters…

But there’s definitely a difference between knowing what your eyes like and trusting them when they say they like something, and liking something without being sure that you’ll like it as much tomorrow/after more comparisons/etc. The more OECs, OMCs, diamonds in general you can see in-person before your return period is up the better, of course. But go see lots of OECs isn’t exactly a straightforward thing to do!

I compared my unbranded RB directly with a CBI once, and I preferred my RB. I’ve seen hundreds of RBs, my eyes know what they like. What they like is a bit unorthodox, as far as RBs go, but I know I won’t want a different flavour no matter how many other stones I see.

But if I was helping my ten-years-ago-self buy a diamond, I wouldn’t choose my stone for her. I’d say go with something tested and generic and use that stone as a low-risk learning platform. That’s what I’d tell you, too, if you were my real-world friend: This stone is a more extremist flavour. There are certainly people who would choose it over a more traditional patterning, but if you don’t *know* that you’re one of those people then it’s more likely you’re not.

Honestly, I think you’re being smart to question and examine. Whatever your decision you’ll know that you did your homework.

 

[Rfisher]

Ultimately this is the only thing that matters…

But there’s definitely a difference between knowing what your eyes like and trusting them when they say they like something, and liking something without being sure that you’ll like it as much tomorrow/after more comparisons/etc. The more OECs, OMCs, diamonds in general you can see in-person before your return period is up the better, of course. But go see lots of OECs isn’t exactly a straightforward thing to do!

I compared my unbranded RB directly with a CBI once, and I preferred my RB. I’ve seen hundreds of RBs, my eyes know what they like. What they like is a bit unorthodox, as far as RBs go, but I know I won’t want a different flavour no matter how many other stones I see.

But if I was helping my ten-years-ago-self buy a diamond, I wouldn’t choose my stone for her. I’d say go with something tested and generic and use that stone as a low-risk learning platform. That’s what I’d tell you, too, if you were my real-world friend: This stone is a more extremist flavour. There are certainly people who would choose it over a more traditional patterning, but if you don’t *know* that you’re one of those people then it’s more likely you’re not.

Honestly, I think you’re being smart to question and examine. Whatever your decision you’ll know that you did your homework.

I really like and agree with what you’ve wrote here, as advice for the OP.

im sorry for threadjacking, OP
but I’d like to hear what the perceived difference is between unorthodox vs extremist is. I think I know,
and I think I agree. It’s not negative - but I think a defensive person could take it that way.
and I think it’s worth expanding on.
a separate thread, maybe?

meh- I take back the thread jacking.
I think it’s relevant in helping OP understand the advice given throughout their threads on this subject, in addition to other posters asking about old cuts / value/ cost and “whats good”.

 

[Cerulean]

@yssie gave great advice. She’s gone against the grain and would happily pick her MRB with a slight tint, while the vast majority of PSers would probably pick a colorless or near colorless ACA.

I initially picked a stone i later grew to strongly dislike once my eyes “were trained” so to speak

I thought I wanted low color, and learned that my eyes disliked how the color meshed with my skin tone and I appreciated over time that my eyes were drawn to bright, very white stones…regardless of OECs generally being bright and reflecting lots of pretty colors - I still don’t like lower color OECs for ME.

I became much more discerning about cut too, but only after about a year or so of trawling threads on PS, and even then I have plenty more to learn compared to veterans.

So I guess it depends on what you’re asking of this crew - there is a line between “a well cut stone” and “personal tastes” and it’s a little fuzzy. some people like asymmetry and body color, whereas others don’t find those things charming at all

Some of the stones shown here, to me, don’t fall into what I consider stones to my personal tastes - but that doesn’t mean you won’t find them visually appealing even after you’ve seen more stones. It’s important that you make an informed choice for such a big purchase

I’m not saying you need to spend a year looking at threads here to decide, but looking at more will help and getting honest feedback might help

 

[yssie]

I really like and agree with what you’ve wrote here, as advice for the OP.

im sorry for threadjacking, OP
but I’d like to hear what the perceived difference is between unorthodox vs extremist is. I think I know,
and I think I agree. It’s not negative - but I think a defensive person could take it that way.
and I think it’s worth expanding on.
a separate thread, maybe?

meh- I take back the thread jacking.
I think it’s relevant in helping OP understand the advice given throughout their threads on this subject, in addition to other posters asking about old cuts / value/ cost and “whats good”.

You’re totally right. When I first started typing a response my initial reaction was that I meant “Unorthodox” and “Extremist” synonymously, and just didn’t notice that I’d used differing verbiage, but… Well - true I didn’t notice the word choice, but I don’t actually mean them synonymously. I inadvertently revealed that I *am* making a value judgment here.

More in a minute. I’m writing a novel.

 

[Cerulean]

For example, it’s a bad screenshot of a video taken from afar, this stone actually goes quite dark under the table. which means these facets aren’t going to reflect as much light and may look “dead” from more angles than a stone with better proportions

I’ll caveat that it’s really hard to read based on this video

I never, ever would’ve noticed this before joining the forum, but now I notice things that would’ve vaguely bothered me without being able to identify the problem

 

[yssie]

So in pearls… For a white pearl - there are a whole bunch of things that contribute to “quality”. How white the pearl is, how unblemished its surface is, how smooth its skin is, how round it is. It’s tempting to prioritize those quality factors on paper, but in reality the vast majority of people respond to luster first and foremost. How sharp are the reflections in the pearl, how black are the black reflections and how white are the white reflections. So when someone asks me for help buying pearls and they tell me they’re new to this, but that they really value unblemished pearls over everything else, my default reaction is to say “trust me, you need to see a luster comparison before you decide what your priorities are”. That person could be the one in a hundred who does genuinely value a clean surface more than luster, but it’s very unlikely!! And the pearl market knows this, of course, and so luster is the most expensive quality factor to select for.


Diamonds are less black and white (pun not intended but I’ll take the win) - from everything I’ve seen there’s more heterogeneity in what people value IRL, vs. On paper. But again, from everything I’ve seen, there are some things that the vast majority of people respond positively to. An even distribution of black and white face-up, facets that “turn on and off” crisply (the whole facet turns black or white at once, no murkiness, no grey, no mushiness, the edges of the facets are clearly delineated in the transition from black to white or white to black) - that’s one thing that everyone I’ve met values highly IRL.

If Anna put this stone next to, say, a Canera OEC or an AVR, the difference in crispness of scintillation would be obvious. The latter two would look more lively, the former would look kind of “watery” by comparison, with “more sluggish” scintillation. (Normally I would add a disclaimer about having not seen the stone myself) A lot of people don’t care for precision cut old styles, though, their eyes miss the asymmetry of genuinely old stones - to those people those objectively lively precision cuts might look “sterile”. Those people look for unicorn OECs that have sharp and crisp virtual facet scintillation despite physical faceting asymmetry and wonkiness. ForteKitty’s holy grail OEC is the first one that pops to mind - there are lots of other examples on PS!


So for me there are some things that the industry values that I feel #matter to how appealing a stone is, and some things the industry values that for me don’t make a stone prettier or less pretty. The industry values not seeing girdle reflection faceup on slight tint, and for most people that’s a check in the “more appealing” column. Lively under-table scintillation - another “more appealing” check for most people. Colour - the industry values less tint, I don’t care. Darkness face-up - the industry values a brighter stone, I don’t care. But we know for fact that other PSers do care about both body colour and face up darkness!

So my earlier word choices -
“extremist” for things that matter to the industry and also matter to me/$person I’m buying for/etc. “Unorthodox” for things that matter to the industry that don’t matter to me/$person. There are very few people whose eyes don’t want to see sharp and crisp scintillation, it’s like luster in pearls, and most likely Anna isn’t one of them… And IMO this particular stone falls short of reasonable compromise for practical availability. The price is good but likelihood of future dissatisfaction is higher than I’d recommend for a real life friend.

 

[Rfisher]

For example, it’s a bad screenshot of a video taken from afar, this stone actually goes quite dark under the table. which means these facets aren’t going to reflect as much light and may look “dead” from more angles than a stone with better proportions

I’ll caveat that it’s really hard to read based on this video

I never, ever would’ve noticed this before joining the forum, but now I notice things that would’ve vaguely bothered me without being able to identify the problem

I would then wonder if this vendor would still have this ring priced at 13k if it performed in a way that never or rarely had dead spots at certain angles/ had better proportions as was stated.

I don’t know if you meant your comment as a reflection of how PS is a learning tool of teaching the eyes what to see/ what they are seeing - along with the most important to ones own eye vs a photo-
or as a negative vote for this particular stone for the OP, though.

This quote of yours pretty much sums up my thoughts to op

“So I guess it depends on what you’re asking of this crew - there is a line between “a well cut stone” and “personal tastes” and it’s a little fuzzy. some people like asymmetry and body color, whereas others don’t find those things charming at all

Some of the stones shown here, to me, don’t fall into what I consider stones to my personal tastes - but that doesn’t mean you won’t find them visually appealing even after you’ve seen more stones. It’s important that you make an informed choice for such a big purchase”

 

[AnnaH]

All these discussions are worthy, and I’m interested.

 

[lulu_ma]

Just popping on to say that I still think that the Sin City Finds stone is worth a look (if you can get it).

 

[Cerulean]

I would then wonder if this vendor would still have this ring priced at 13k if it performed in a way that never or rarely had dead spots at certain angles/ had better proportions as was stated.

I don’t know if you meant your comment as a reflection of how PS is a learning tool of teaching the eyes what to see/ what they are seeing - along with the most important to ones own eye vs a photo-
or as a negative vote for this particular stone for the OP, though.

This quote of yours pretty much sums up my thoughts to op

“So I guess it depends on what you’re asking of this crew - there is a line between “a well cut stone” and “personal tastes” and it’s a little fuzzy. some people like asymmetry and body color, whereas others don’t find those things charming at all

Some of the stones shown here, to me, don’t fall into what I consider stones to my personal tastes - but that doesn’t mean you won’t find them visually appealing even after you’ve seen more stones. It’s important that you make an informed choice for such a big purchase”

Want to add to your first comment, that I do think you are spot on to infer that the price is reflecting not only the stats (body color, weight, clarity) but also the quality of the cut which can’t be pinned down with the same precision as MRBs (eg good versus excellent cut)

You have to assess with your eyes for old cuts

And Diana has such a sharp eye at that, and she’s had some real stunners in her inventory, unquestionably. They are priced well for the market, but accordingly regarding cut quality

Those extraordinary stones she finds that are immaculately cut and fall into the ranks of the “holy grail” OECs that @yssie mentioned get snapped up in minutes, not days. I think many of her buyers are collectors and other vendors, and they have eagle eyes too

That doesn’t mean OP wouldn’t be unhappy with a non-holy grail type OEC, but I want to be transparent

This OEC is not an example of one of those unicorns in my humble opinion

Does it mean it’s not worth an inquiry to find out more if you like it? Of course not