Vaccinations and care for kittens

[CJ2008]

I need to take a kitten (about 8 weeks now) in for her second vet visit, and I'm thinking of trying a different vet.

They're each recommending a little bit different steps and I'd like to get your opinion...

1st vet (the one I've been going to for years)

-distemper combo vaccine
-leukemia vaccine
-2nd fecal
-2nd deworming
-rabies at 4 months

2nd vet

-combo vaccine (she mentioned hepatitis but I can't see anything about hepatitis for cats...maybe she made a mistake?) - this vaccine will be repeated every 3-4 weeks until she hits 4 months
-said I do not have to do leukemia if she's going to be strictly indoors - but would have to do it if she's going to be boarded or groomed etc
-fecal will be done with her last set of vaccines (with rabies one too) at around 4 months

Should I be asking for the EXACT name of the combo vaccine from both places, so I can look them up?
What do you think of the leukemia vaccine? Skip or no?
Should I have a fecal done now or OK to wait?
They both also recommended revolution - but I've never given this to my previous cat and never had a problem...is this not a good idea to skip?

Not sure what I should be asking them or how to judge who's got the more solid plan - without doing unnecessary things or missing essential things.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Matata]

Essential: FVRCP
Nonessential if cat is indoors only or outdoors on a leash: FELV
Do not vaccinate for FIP for FIV
Vaccinate for rabies only if state requires it or if cat will be free roaming

Here's the current recommendation http://jfm.sagepub.com/content/15/9/785.full.pdf+html

 

[CJ2008]

Thanks, Matata.

I'll call the vet and see if the combo vaccine they use have either FIP or FIV.

They do say this, though:

The Advisory Panel recommends that all cats under 1 year
of age be vaccinated against FeLV and receive a booster
vaccination 1 year later. After 1 year of age, the need for
subsequent vaccination is determined by risk factors that
the individual is exposed to

ETA: I see nothing in the journal about hepatitis...she probably meant to say something else...or maybe it has a different name...

 

[Matata]

Yeah, I'm not sure what she meant by hepatitis either. Far as I know, there is no vaccine to protest against any liver disease. FeLV is up to you.Transmitted via bites, nasal secretions so can pass through grooming too. There is some doubt about the efficacy of the FeLV vaccine in some veterinary literature. Be sure your vet isn't just trying to make a buck with the vaccines. FIP vaccine has not been proven to be effective AT ALL. Research is still in the early stages. FIP is a horrible disease with 100% mortality rate but there is no vaccine yet to prevent it. Winn Foundation is doing majority of research on the disease. You can read about it here http://www.winnfelinehealth.org

 

[justginger]

Yeah, I'm not sure what she meant by hepatitis either. Far as I know, there is no vaccine to protest against any liver disease. FeLV is up to you.Transmitted via bites, nasal secretions so can pass through grooming too. There is some doubt about the efficacy of the FeLV vaccine in some veterinary literature. Be sure your vet isn't just trying to make a buck with the vaccines. FIP vaccine has not been proven to be effective AT ALL. Research is still in the early stages. FIP is a horrible disease with 100% mortality rate but there is no vaccine yet to prevent it. Winn Foundation is doing majority of research on the disease. You can read about it here http://www.winnfelinehealth.org

Sadly true, FIP is what stole my little Filly last November. He was up to date on all his vax, and the vet said absolutely nothing could have been done to prevent it. There may be some value in having fewer cats, apparently - the virus that mutates and causes the condition is found to persist, asymptomatically, more often in homes with multiple cats. Considering mine are all rescues, and most of them were his litter mates at the time, nothing could have been changed.

As for our vax, our kits get an F5. I'd have to Google to see what that actually contains. Mine are indoor only and if I haven't had new fosters being introduced, I would leave a year between vaxes. I think we may be guilty of over vaccinating our pets and under vaccinating our humans these days (ahem, hope everyone is current on the DTaP).

 

[CJ2008]

Ginger, I found this:

F5 vaccination as it covers for feline enteritis, herpes, calcivirus, chlamydia and feline leukaemia

 

[justginger]

So I think it looks like the FVRCP is what we call an F3, our F5 have two other strains in them. The cost difference is something like $10, so we've just done the bigger one in the past. With foster street cats coming in, I try to play it safe. That being said, my animals are never flea treated unless a new foster shows signs, and then everyone is done at once. Doing the whole house costs about $350, so I am sparing with it. It's only happened twice in 5 years of fosters, so it seems to be good enough. I worm them more regularly, easy and cheap.

 

[Matata]

I never vaccinate my cats after the FVRCP series. Multiple studies have shown that lifetime immunity is conferred through most of the vaccine series they get as kittens. I agree, justginger, that we over-vaccinate which, ironically, can do more harm than good. My cats are indoors, walk on a leash or in a pet stroller so have minimal exposure to other cats or animals that can transmit disease (raccoons, skunks, foxes, etc.) so I choose not to overtax their immune systems by annual vaccinations.

Because all of my cats are savannah cats, there is no requirement for rabies for them in Oregon. Wildlife officials cite studies that supposedly show that rabies vaccines don't confer immunity in hybrids or cats whose lineage come from hybrids. Not sure about that. I read somewhere awhile ago that zoos vaccinate their cats against rabies so there must be some evidence that it works in wild animals and, in that case, I don't understand why it wouldn't work in cats bred down from wild animals. Rabies is rare here and I would only give them 1 vaccine in any event. Too many issues crop up with repetitive vaccination for rabies.

 

[sonnyjane]

Because all of my cats are savannah cats, there is no requirement for rabies for them in Oregon. Wildlife officials cite studies that supposedly show that rabies vaccines don't confer immunity in hybrids or cats whose lineage come from hybrids. Not sure about that. I read somewhere awhile ago that zoos vaccinate their cats against rabies so there must be some evidence that it works in wild animals and, in that case, I don't understand why it wouldn't work in cats bred down from wild animals. Rabies is rare here and I would only give them 1 vaccine in any event. Too many issues crop up with repetitive vaccination for rabies.

That's weird! I'll have to look into that. When I worked at the zoo, yes, our servals, clouded leopards, wolves, etc. were all vaccinated for rabies because with the outdoor exhibits, they were susceptible to contact with potentially rabid squirrels, raccoons, bats, etc. Don't know why it wouldn't work for wild animals? Hmm...

 

[CJ2008]

OK so I called both vets...

The first vet's vaccine is the FVRCP (plus they're recommending the leukemia)
The second vet's vaccine is the HCPCH - I looked it up and it says:

A quality 1-year core vaccine that protects against feline rhinotracheitis, feline panleukopenia (FPV), and feline calicivirus (FCV), plus protects against feline Chlamydophila.

So if I'm understanding correctly, the second vet's one has the "extra" protection against chlamydophila.

If I want to try that second vet, should I feel OK giving her that HCPCH vaccine or is the chlamydophila unnecessary enough to warrant going to the other vet? (The kitten DID have an eye that was reddish yesterday and looked half closed at times and today is completely back to normal...but still has me questioning my judgment of allowing her to be together with my resident cat - she tested negative for leukemia/FIV, but maybe I should have stiil waited until AFTER her vaccines?

 

[Matata]

If I want to try that second vet, should I feel OK giving her that HCPCH vaccine or is the chlamydophila unnecessary enough to warrant going to the other vet? (The kitten DID have an eye that was reddish yesterday and looked half closed at times and today is completely back to normal...but still has me questioning my judgment of allowing her to be together with my resident cat - she tested negative for leukemia/FIV, but maybe I should have stiil waited until AFTER her vaccines?

Here's the scoop from Cornell vet school -- one of the best in the country:
Chlamydiosis: Chlamydiosis is caused by the bacteria, Chlamydia psittaci. Conjunctivitis (inflammation of the tissues lining the eyelids and covering part of the eyeball) is the most common sign, but sneezing and nasal discharge may also occur. The bacteria are transmitted through direct contact with an infected cat, and the highest rates of infection are in cats between five weeks and nine months of age, especially those residing in multiple-cat environments with a history of respiratory tract disease. Cats vaccinated against chlamydiosis are not protected from infection but are expected to experience less severe disease if infected. Adverse reactions associated with chlamydia vaccines are more common than with many other feline vaccines, but the reactions are usually mild and resolve completely with treatment. Vaccination is recommended if your cat resides in a multiple-cat environment where chlamydiosis has been confirmed in other cats.

CJ -- it's too late now, but people should always put new pets into a 2 week quarantine at minimum before introducing them to existing pets. Two reasons for this -- first is to insure that the new pet is healthy and to give it time to acclimate to its new environment; 2nd reason is to insure proper bonding between new pet and human members of the household.

It's a real pain in the arse when a new pet infects existing pets with an illness or critters such as ear mites and you have to treat everyone. In the worst case scenario, with a incurable illness, you run the risk of losing all of the existing pets. Not a good place to be.

 

[CJ2008]

If I want to try that second vet, should I feel OK giving her that HCPCH vaccine or is the chlamydophila unnecessary enough to warrant going to the other vet? (The kitten DID have an eye that was reddish yesterday and looked half closed at times and today is completely back to normal...but still has me questioning my judgment of allowing her to be together with my resident cat - she tested negative for leukemia/FIV, but maybe I should have stiil waited until AFTER her vaccines?

Here's the scoop from Cornell vet school -- one of the best in the country:
Chlamydiosis: Chlamydiosis is caused by the bacteria, Chlamydia psittaci. Conjunctivitis (inflammation of the tissues lining the eyelids and covering part of the eyeball) is the most common sign, but sneezing and nasal discharge may also occur. The bacteria are transmitted through direct contact with an infected cat, and the highest rates of infection are in cats between five weeks and nine months of age, especially those residing in multiple-cat environments with a history of respiratory tract disease. Cats vaccinated against chlamydiosis are not protected from infection but are expected to experience less severe disease if infected. Adverse reactions associated with chlamydia vaccines are more common than with many other feline vaccines, but the reactions are usually mild and resolve completely with treatment. Vaccination is recommended if your cat resides in a multiple-cat environment where chlamydiosis has been confirmed in other cats.

CJ -- it's too late now, but people should always put new pets into a 2 week quarantine at minimum before introducing them to existing pets. Two reasons for this -- first is to insure that the new pet is healthy and to give it time to acclimate to its new environment; 2nd reason is to insure proper bonding between new pet and human members of the household.

Matata - that is ONE thing I definitely did right. I followed the steps for proper introduction and would NOT have let her have contact with him until I could confirm that it was apparently safe to do so. So within a day or two, she had her first vet visit, and for 2 weeks after that, no contact at all, not even through under the door both for behavior reasons and health/safety...when I saw that the resident cat was curious about what was behind the door (as opposed to upset) I removed the towel so they could smell each other...at first, hissing from both...when that subsided they started pawing under the door...so then I started feeding them together 4 times/day about a few feet apart...until I saw that that they could look at each other without freaking out...and then once/twice per day would allow them to see each other without food for short periods, maybe like 5-10 minutes I would judge when my resident cat would start getting antsy...so it was a very slow process and I would not have done it any other way. If I had to go back to STEP 1 because I noticed anything from either one of them even close to aggression or fear or anything negative, I would have done it. But I'm happy to report they now like each other and wrestle together a lot...it's awesome.

BUT - that still does not take away the fact that maybe I should have still waited until AFTER she was vaccinated...so I am hoping that the eye thing was nothing...

It's a real pain in the arse when a new pet infects existing pets with an illness or critters such as ear mites and you have to treat everyone. In the worst case scenario, with a incurable illness, you run the risk of losing all of the existing pets. Not a good place to be.

OMG no... that would be so sad

 

[CJ2008]

If I want to try that second vet, should I feel OK giving her that HCPCH vaccine or is the chlamydophila unnecessary enough to warrant going to the other vet? (The kitten DID have an eye that was reddish yesterday and looked half closed at times and today is completely back to normal...but still has me questioning my judgment of allowing her to be together with my resident cat - she tested negative for leukemia/FIV, but maybe I should have stiil waited until AFTER her vaccines?

Here's the scoop from Cornell vet school -- one of the best in the country:
Chlamydiosis: Chlamydiosis is caused by the bacteria, Chlamydia psittaci. Conjunctivitis (inflammation of the tissues lining the eyelids and covering part of the eyeball) is the most common sign, but sneezing and nasal discharge may also occur. The bacteria are transmitted through direct contact with an infected cat, and the highest rates of infection are in cats between five weeks and nine months of age, especially those residing in multiple-cat environments with a history of respiratory tract disease. Cats vaccinated against chlamydiosis are not protected from infection but are expected to experience less severe disease if infected. Adverse reactions associated with chlamydia vaccines are more common than with many other feline vaccines, but the reactions are usually mild and resolve completely with treatment. Vaccination is recommended if your cat resides in a multiple-cat environment where chlamydiosis has been confirmed in other cats.

So as far as this goes...I don't believe my resident/adult cat has ever had this, so it definitely hasn't been confirmed in "other cats." But being that she's a kitten, and SHE could potentially have this, maybe it's a good idea.

CJ -- it's too late now, but people should always put new pets into a 2 week quarantine at minimum before introducing them to existing pets. Two reasons for this -- first is to insure that the new pet is healthy and to give it time to acclimate to its new environment; 2nd reason is to insure proper bonding between new pet and human members of the household.

It's a real pain in the arse when a new pet infects existing pets with an illness or critters such as ear mites and you have to treat everyone. In the worst case scenario, with a incurable illness, you run the risk of losing all of the existing pets. Not a good place to be.

 

[Matata]

Sorry CJ -- Sorry I misunderstood what you saying about intros after vaccinations. Waiting until the kitten has all vaccinations isn't necessary as long as the fur babe is otherwise healthy. Be sure to mention the eye problem to the vet. It could indicate the beginning or existence of an upper respiratory infection or perhaps a slight injury. Good luck with it all. I just finished introducing a new kitten to the house and I was exhausted by the time the entire quarantine and intro period was done. I was so worried that the 3 adult cats would resent the kitten but they fell in love with him right away. Didn't stop me from worrying myself half to death though. He gets neutered on Monday and I'm already worrying about that. LOL.

 

[CJ2008]

Sorry CJ -- Sorry I misunderstood what you saying about intros after vaccinations. Waiting until the kitten has all vaccinations isn't necessary as long as the fur babe is otherwise healthy. Be sure to mention the eye problem to the vet. It could indicate the beginning or existence of an upper respiratory infection or perhaps a slight injury. Good luck with it all. I just finished introducing a new kitten to the house and I was exhausted by the time the entire quarantine and intro period was done. I was so worried that the 3 adult cats would resent the kitten but they fell in love with him right away. Didn't stop me from worrying myself half to death though. He gets neutered on Monday and I'm already worrying about that. LOL.

Oh, no, no apology necessary, you know what, if I didn't know better and was one of those people who think it's OK to "just put them together and let them work it out" you would have prompted me to be more educated for next time, although yes, I would have been embarrassed, and probably horrified at myself for not knowing better since I really am an animal lover.

I have an appointment for her vaccines for Monday and yes, definitely, will point out her eye to the vet.

I know it really is such an exhausting and anxiety-ridden process to introduce them...it's so nerve wracking. Thankfully aside from a few hisses and bats and some a little too rough wresting sessions (the kitten asking for it most of the time!) it was fairly smooth. I don't know how well I could handle say 2 adult males or actually any situation where real aggression is present. Although I probably would have the patience to keep trying.

She's too young to be spayed yet, but yes, that's next.