Various questions from longtime lurker

[should i be here]

hi everyone,

This site is a treasure trove of information - I found this site while just trying to learn about the 4 Cs. Since then, I've been so addicted to checking out people's bling that I check the boards constantly every day!

Feeling a little guilty coming here because I'm not even engaged! Feels a bit presumptuous for me to be looking into diamonds at this stage, but I love researching big purchases to death. Anyway, the bf says "it's about time," so I pulled the trigger and joined. Still feeling guilty, but the below is burning into my mind.

I am looking for a RB with sparkle/light performance being the essential factor (aka cut) to go into a solitaire.

Couple random questions that I haven't been able to find answers to:

1. I live in NY. If I (or the bf, really) bought a diamond from an office here, including the offices of PS vendors located in NY, would I have to pay NY sales tax on the purchase? Because that adds up to thousands of dollars!

2. I've been looking for diamonds via the PS search function here. I weed every single one out using HCA and have listed them all on a spreadsheet with specs, price, HCA metrics, etc. (told you I research a lot). Is that a good idea though? Or would HCA disqualify some stones that are totally fine?

3. I know not every GIA Ex or AGS 0 diamond scores under 2.0 on the HCA. But I've actually come across some that are GIA Very Good or even Good that qualify. What am I to make of that?

4. I don't have strict weight criteria since what people are REALLY trying to measure is face-up size, correct? So the diamonds I'm looking at are quite a range of carat sizes, but all have dimensions that are relatively similar. Does this make sense to do?

5. I have looked at the mm - ct weight charts, and I rarely see any round diamonds that have the face-up dimensions that the charts say they should have. Do a quick diamond search and check it out. They can come near the supposed-to-be size, but it's relatively rare.

6. About the PS vendor diamond search. I'm looking at diamonds with certain parameters, and the only results I'm getting are the "drop shippers'." Maybe it's the size? Either way, since all these prices pop up, why would anyone buy a virtual inventory diamond from one vendor that charges more than another? You'd expect some more price competition and matching.

7. Any experiences with B2C Jewels? They seem to be a relatively new addition (?) and I don't see anything for them in the Testimonials section. But they seem to consistently offer the lowest prices on the same stone, at least on PS search.

8. Given that I've done research on the stones just by the numbers, how would I go about picking a vendor to see them in person? Do I give the vendor a list of parameters and see what else they have access to?

Whewww. That's just off the top of my head now. I'm sure I have more questions, but thanks for any and all responses.

 

[stone-cold11]

1) Yes. Even if you buy out of state, by law, you are required to report on the purchase to the state and paid a used tax for your state.

2) Depends on what range of score you are using. HCA is a rough rejection tool, that allows one to weed out the bad performer and then for the few qualifying ones, reqest more tests to be done on it, such as asking for idealscope image.

3) Depends on what leads to the VG/G cut grade by GIA/AGS. Too thin/Thick girdles, too off symm/polish grades? Also, as you can see for yourself, the same proportions that gets AGS0 might not get GIA Ex.

4) Weight is not proportional to face up dimensions.

5) Larger the size, the more difficult it is to get to theoretical size.

6) Ya, probably the size you are looking at. But you could probably ask one of the vendors that can provide IS image if they can call in the stone, sounds like a huge purchase to be buying just from the numbers alone. Price difference between drop-shippers have different reasons, like maybe one has a larger reach/publicity then the other and think they can/should charge more for the advertizement/customer base they have, etc.

 

[should i be here]

Thanks! Jeez, so it sounds like a disadvantage that I'm a New Yorker. What stops me from viewing the stones at one vendor, but then turning around and buying the specific stone from another?

Don't worry, I would never buy a stone just from the numbers. But those are all I have at the moment, so I'm narrowing down a few, ya know, just in case I need to go diamond shopping anytime soon

The size of stone I'm looking for isn't even unusual for PS or NYC standards, but I guess pickings are slimmer as you go up in size!

Oh, another question: why does Blue Nile look to have different inventory than other drop-shippers? I'm assuming they're all virtual inventory stones.

 

[should i be here]

subtle bump.

And I wonder when new stones will enter the virtual inventory database after the holidays? I'm so obsessed with finding maximizing quality for the money! I'll even go for stones that are way UNDER budget if they're great!

 

[yennyfire]

I think that Stone gave great answers to your questions, so there's not a whole lot I can add. I have not done business with B2C, so I can't comment on that. At this point, if you'd like help selecting a stone, why don't you share your parameters/budget and we can help a bit more.

 

[should i be here]

you're right, thanks! I'm just really bored at work and can't stop refreshing the page...

I won't post parameters yet because a) I'm not even engaged! that would be getting ahead of myself, and b) I'm afraid someone will steal the stone I'm looking at! haha.

Haha, according to the bf, we've "discussed this" already. "Conversation" below:
me: so seriously, what would be your budget?
you: what do you think it should be?
me: $______ (kind of a high number, more than i actually even want to spend!)
you: hmm, that's doable.
me:

I'm not in a huge rush to be engaged, my only concern is that when it comes time to look, there just aren't great stones for us at the time. I'm just extremely bent on getting a great value.

 

[stone-cold11]

Oh, another question: why does Blue Nile look to have different inventory than other drop-shippers? I'm assuming they're all virtual inventory stones.

I think BN has a rule for their vendors listing in their virtual inventories which is they cannot be listed anywhere else, although from time to time you might see a few pop up else where, so that they can say these stones are their own inventories when they actually only own their Signature Ideals. Other vendors should be able to find the same stone, they have access to a listing, and calling it in if you can give them the report number.

 

[John P]

hi everyone,

This site is a treasure trove of information - I found this site while just trying to learn about the 4 Cs. Since then, I've been so addicted to checking out people's bling that I check the boards constantly every day!

Feeling a little guilty coming here because I'm not even engaged! Feels a bit presumptuous for me to be looking into diamonds at this stage, but I love researching big purchases to death. Anyway, the bf says "it's about time," so I pulled the trigger and joined. Still feeling guilty, but the below is burning into my mind.

I am looking for a RB with sparkle/light performance being the essential factor (aka cut) to go into a solitaire.

Couple random questions that I haven't been able to find answers to:

1. I live in NY. If I (or the bf, really) bought a diamond from an office here, including the offices of PS vendors located in NY, would I have to pay NY sales tax on the purchase? Because that adds up to thousands of dollars!

2. I've been looking for diamonds via the PS search function here. I weed every single one out using HCA and have listed them all on a spreadsheet with specs, price, HCA metrics, etc. (told you I research a lot). Is that a good idea though? Or would HCA disqualify some stones that are totally fine?

3. I know not every GIA Ex or AGS 0 diamond scores under 2.0 on the HCA. But I've actually come across some that are GIA Very Good or even Good that qualify. What am I to make of that?

4. I don't have strict weight criteria since what people are REALLY trying to measure is face-up size, correct? So the diamonds I'm looking at are quite a range of carat sizes, but all have dimensions that are relatively similar. Does this make sense to do?

5. I have looked at the mm - ct weight charts, and I rarely see any round diamonds that have the face-up dimensions that the charts say they should have. Do a quick diamond search and check it out. They can come near the supposed-to-be size, but it's relatively rare.

6. About the PS vendor diamond search. I'm looking at diamonds with certain parameters, and the only results I'm getting are the "drop shippers'." Maybe it's the size? Either way, since all these prices pop up, why would anyone buy a virtual inventory diamond from one vendor that charges more than another? You'd expect some more price competition and matching.

7. Any experiences with B2C Jewels? They seem to be a relatively new addition (?) and I don't see anything for them in the Testimonials section. But they seem to consistently offer the lowest prices on the same stone, at least on PS search.

8. Given that I've done research on the stones just by the numbers, how would I go about picking a vendor to see them in person? Do I give the vendor a list of parameters and see what else they have access to?

Whewww. That's just off the top of my head now. I'm sure I have more questions, but thanks for any and all responses.

#1: Answered well by SC.

#2: Do remember that the HCA is blind. It is simply making a "chalk outline" of the diamond where scores under 2.0 have angles inside a widely agreed-on high performance range, but it is still distilling 57-58 facets down to a chalk outline. The short answer is yes, it can disqualify stones which could be fine, depending on your taste. But it can also approve the odd stone with poorly chosen lower half lengths, digging, painting, wide variations from average angle given, poor cut precision or other elements it cannot "see." As mentioned, it's a great rejection tool which is useful for identifying candidates worthy of further examination.

#3: Adding to the prior answer, notable systems such as the GIA, AGS, HCA and AGA share an area where their top grades overlap but don't all agree on the exact "bullseye" of best performing angles. Pavilion angle is what many consider the most critical element and is good for showing where the ‘centers’ of the different systems lie. For 53-58% tables, you'll find that pavilion angles 40.6-41.0 have the greatest approval cross-system. The AGS cut guidelines suggest most 0 candidates in that range. The HCA and AGA prefer the shallow side of that range and a bit lower; which is why some GIA VG/shallow still get top marks in other systems. The GIA system prefers the steep side and higher; which is why some GIA EX/deep fall outside the criteria of other systems.

#5: There are different makes of round brilliant. 60/60 and shallow makes are often closer to those charts than Near-Tolkowsky or transitionals. But each has its own look, so employ your taste. Also remember that cut is king. A diamond with angles and precision which give it edge-to-edge performance will look larger than a more spready stone without that level of cut quality.

#6: Pricing can reflect a different suite of services and benefits. If you're looking for someone to swipe your CC, have the diamond you ID mailed to you and ride into the sunset you'll pay less than you would for an experienced and picky gemologist who spends time selecting candidates on your behalf and backs the sale with guarantees and future options. Considering how opaque this whole business can be my suggestion is to find an experienced jeweler worthy of your trust. He/she should be able to answer all of your questions to your satisfaction.

#8: See number 6. A range of great sellers can be contacted through this site. Alternately, you live in one of the world's diamond hotbeds while having access to this resource. There's a vast array of showrooms open to you and, as a longtime lurker, you know where to come for feedback during your process.

Cheers,

 

[should i be here]

Thanks John, really helpful!

I guess my main concern was unnecessarily disqualifying totally fine GIA Ex/AGS 0 diamonds just because they didn't score below a 2 on the HCA. But I've identified quite a few of the HCA-worthy diamonds, I guess the next step would be to request IS/ASET or go and look at them in person.

I know I'm being completely reliant on the numbers, but obviously that's all the info I know about these candidates.

I know a few of the vendors here will supply pictures/IS/ASET images upon request. But this isn't widespread practice among the PS vendors, not even mentioning others, correct? Though that whole thread by Garry Cutnut is dissuading me from even requesting an ASET for an RB, haha.

And glad to know that other vendors can call in the stones exclusively listed on Blue Nile! I would want to avoid them if possible.

 

[John P]

Thanks John, really helpful!

I guess my main concern was unnecessarily disqualifying totally fine GIA Ex/AGS 0 diamonds just because they didn't score below a 2 on the HCA. But I've identified quite a few of the HCA-worthy diamonds, I guess the next step would be to request IS/ASET or go and look at them in person.

I know I'm being completely reliant on the numbers, but obviously that's all the info I know about these candidates.

I know a few of the vendors here will supply pictures/IS/ASET images upon request. But this isn't widespread practice among the PS vendors, not even mentioning others, correct? Though that whole thread by Garry Cutnut is dissuading me from even requesting an ASET for an RB, haha.

And glad to know that other vendors can call in the stones exclusively listed on Blue Nile! I would want to avoid them if possible.

You're welcome. I'd also suggest that this whole exercise is about your level of comfort and convenience, no one else's: Many people are content with XYZ chain-store at the mall. Others prefer Tiffany&Co. Some enjoy the coziness of a local jeweler's showroom and others prefer a 'world at your feet' experience online. Some prefer to do little research. Others love to dig and ask and get technical.

You will find places happy to provide what you're seeking - both online and in B&M showrooms - though some services like IS/ASET are decidedly more rare. It's like many things. I'm content to go to SportsClips for my haircut (for obvious reasons) but my wife requires a different level of standards and service to be comfortable. No problem. She chooses the provider that makes her happy and I do likewise, but her standards definitely required her to shop around more than I did... Of course, now that I think about it, she gets far more compliments on her hair than I do.

 

[should i be here]

Thanks! I'd love to go through a PS "full-service" vendor, but I'm hoping they would either price-match or be very close to the lowest price I see. Would love expert guidance beyond the numbers.

Jeez, now I can't wait to post my top candidates and ask for opinions - just gotta wait for a proposal and hope that no one's "stolen" my diamonds! But who knows when he'll ask...