Vatche Shipping and Handling Question

[ringbling17]

HI everyone,
I decided to upgrade my diamond and have decided to get the Royal Crown setting again. I sent the new diamond to D. Atlas for appraising and everything checked out fine. They should be shipping the diamond to Vatche soon.
I know that it is customary to have Vatche set the diamond considering that if they don't, your lifetime warranty is voided. Like wise if you have the ring resized, etc. So, it makes since for them to set it and they set the previous diamond I owned, also.
I am now being told by my dealer that I have to pay for the S&H fees to have the ring sent back to them from Vatche and also to have it sent to me.
This doesn't make sense to me, because the last time I did this, I didn't pay for any of the S&H fees, except to have D. Atlas send the diamond to Vatche.
It seems to me, you have your hands tied either way. If Vatche doesn't set it, you lose your warranty and if you have them set it, then you have to pay the S&H.
In my opinion, since Vatche is saying they MUST set it for you in order to keep the warranty, then the consumer shouldn't have to pay for it.
I would understand if I had paid for it the first time, but I didn't, so why should I now?
Then there is the S&H fee to have the finished ring sent back to me. According to the dealer's website, overnight Fed Ex to the customer is complimentary and included with the purchase. So why do I have to pay for it now?
Is it because this is an upgrade and not considered a "real" purchase? I hope that is not the reason, because I am spending a considerable amount more for this upgrade, not to mention, I am getting a new setting, even more than some people pay for a first time purchase. Over $7,000 more for the upgrade.
I have chosen to exclude the name of the dealer I am talking about. I did tell them I did not want to pay for those S&H fees. They said they would see what they could do.
I am sure when the dealer sees this post, they will not be happy, but I am curious to know whether or not anyone else had their diamond set by Vatche and had to pay this S&H fee to have the diamond sent back to the dealer.
Thanks

 

[elmo]

My advice is to pay the 'S' and not the 'H'. Assuming that total value is under $25k, just have them send this by registered mail both ways, so this is probably in the $25-75 range both ways.

I agree though - for a $7000 upgrade, the jeweler should have just built this into their price structure. Reminds me that years ago a local fellow charged a setting fee after I bought a $3000 stone. I occasionally stop by to show him the beautiful things we buy on the internet now

.

 

[guslik]

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On 7/23/2003 11:11:40 PM kayla17 wrote:

HI everyone,
I decided to upgrade my diamond and have decided to get the Royal Crown setting again. ----------------

Hi Kayla17! I have seen the pics of your new ring in you post
"Whiteflash A Cut Above and Vatche Royal Crown pics".
Can I ask what did you upgrade your stone for and why? It was great stone BTW!!

 

[niceice]

We can't explain why you didn't pay the cost of shipping and handling the first time around, and we don't think that we're the dealer you're referring to, but...

1. Most manufacturers, including ourselves, will not honor a warranty on a piece that has been worked on by another jeweler because nobody should be held responsible for the work of another person... For instance, awhile back one of our customers decided to let the local yahoo size their platinum ring and that idiot used white gold solder so the ring eventually yellowed. We were happy to repair the ring for the client, but the cost of doing so was not covered under warranty because we were fixing the mistake of a third party not related to our company nor contracted to work on our behalf.

2. Shipping & Handling is always the cost of the consumer, if not upfront, it has been built in or hidden in the final selling price of the item... Practically every manufacturer warranty that we've ever read states that shipping and handling is an expense paid by the consumer. For instance, when our stereo receiver burned out the other day, the manufacturer replaced the receiver but we paid the shipping cost for returning the old receiver to them. There are shipping options available which are less expensive than others, you might consider U.S. Registered & Insured Mail which is quite reasonable, it takes a little more time than Fed Ex but it gets there cheaper...

3. A lot of companies which offer "free shipping" do so because they drop ship the diamond to the customer from their supplier and the supplier pays the shipping "if" the sale sticks... This is why a lot of companies offer "free shipping" but charge a shipping charge if the diamond is returned for a refund... Figure that one out... One of these days, the FTC is likely to... So the shipping may have been incurred by the diamond cutter the first time around, but now you're asking the other dealer to actually incur an expense which isn't reimbursed. Don't know for sure, but we might be on the right track here...

But in reality, you should probably have paid the shipping expense the first time around because it is in fact an expense which results from a service that you are receiving... One way or another, the cost of business is always passed on to the consumer, if you were buying the ring from a local jewelry store you wouldn't hear about shipping costs, but you would likely pay a much higher price for the item... Internet dealers are a little more specific with their customers because price is often an issue, thus the product and services are broken down into "per item" charges and shipping happens to be one of them... Some of our competition goes so far to advertise the selling price of their rings as "X" and then add on additional charges for "Y" setting the diamond and "Z" for sizing it up or down one size... It seems easier to us to price the ring as finished unit, but then people complain about the price being $45.00 higher than another site, but interestingly enough they usually come back after they get the complete price for the other ring or discover that it is an "ultra light" instead of a medium or heavy weight unit... The cost of a product is always based on what it costs to manufacture, warranty, ship, insure, prepare, and warehouse in one form or another and then a little profit is added in... The seller might choose to "eat" the expense of shipping to appease you, but is that "really" fair?

 

[ringbling17]

---------------
HI everyone,
I spoke to the dealer and we have managed to clear up the problem. Like I said before, I was never charged the first time, so I was very surprised to hear that I had to pay this the second time. Had I paid the S&H charges the first time, I obviously wouldn't be questioning the charges now.
In any event, once everything was explained to me, I could see the dealer's point of view.
Guslik, yes, I just got my ring in March and although I loved it, I was never really happy with the size. Always felt that it was a little small. I decided to get a larger diamond, so I went for a 2 carat G VS1 H&A. I really wanted a F color, but didn't want to pay the extra money. Not to mention, my wedding band has G VS diamonds. Eventually I will get earrings and a bracelet, and they will be easier to match and a lot less money.

 

[elmo]

R&T, you're not being fair to some of your strongest competition here like DBOF and Whiteflash who include shipping as part of their service. And though some sellers may drop ship, these folks do not.

My beef here is a "handling" charge - shipping is completely legit, but a "handling" charge is like paying a doc fee or getting a $500 wax job on a new car - padding the dealer's profit.

 

[niceice]

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On 7/24/2003 10:26:54 PM elmo wrote:
R&T, you're not being fair to some of your strongest competition here like DBOF and Whiteflash who include shipping as part of their service. And though some sellers may drop ship, these folks do not.
----------------

Has DBOF started evaluating every diamond that they sell now? We're glad to hear it... But you're missing part of what we're trying to say... The cost of shipping is never "free" it is either charged to the customer up front or it is padded into the selling price of the item, but one way or another the customer pays for it...

 

[elmo]

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On 7/24/2003 11

3:51 PM niceice wrote:

Has DBOF started evaluating every diamond that they sell now? We're glad to hear it...
----------------

As far as I know, they've never drop shipped a stone, everything gets checked out pretty thoroughly. Furthermore, they don't make subtle implications like this about you guys, and because I've come to respect your business over the years as well, I'm a little surprised you'd make a comment like this...a class act like niceice doesn't have to use this sort of tactic.

----------------
But you're missing part of what we're trying to say...
----------------

Didn't miss your point, I think we're in violent agreement

.

 

[niceice]

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On 7/25/2003 10

3:26 AM elmo wrote:

Didn't miss your point, I think we're in violent agreement

.

----------------

Great minds think alike... Well, we're out of here for a few days to to camping in Washington with some friends... Well, camping with a 25' trailer, I couldn't get Robin to climb inside of a tent... Robin's idea of "camping" is a room at any Four Seasons Hotel within an hour's drive of a forest or beach... This should be interesting... We'll be back Wednesday afternoon or so...

 

[ringbling17]

Hi elmo,
Actually, the company I am dealing with is one of the one's that you mentioned above.

Again, I have no problem paying the S&H charges, I just never paid for them the first time, so of course I had to question it this time.

Anyway, the new Vatche setting fell through. I was originally told I could get the new setting in exchange for the old setting for a small restocking fee. I agreed to do this and even asked AGA to send the diamond to Vatche to have the setting made.

Yesterday, the dealer called me and told me they couldn't do what they said. They said the most they could do was give me a $100 credit for the old setting to put towards the new setting and I would have to pay for the difference. The old setting looks brand new, I never even put a scratch on it! I can sell the old setting for more than $100, so why would I trade it in for just that?


Of course, I am pissed off about this. Considering they told me one thing and then two days later, changed their mind and tell me something else. Especially because it happened right after I questioned the S&H charges.
I am not going to argue with them about this, I always felt the deal was too good to be true.

For now, I will keep my old setting and have the prongs adjusted and pray it turns out well. If it doesn't, then I will most likely get a new setting. One thing is for sure, I will definitely not order it from the dealer I am working with now.

I will still get my diamond from them, but that's it!

 

[DBOF]

Hi elmo,
Actually, the company I am dealing with is one of the one's that you mentioned above
________________________________________________________

Just for the record, we (DBOF) are not the company in question here.

Brad

 

[Kamuelamom]

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On 7/25/2003 11:34:20 PM DBOF wrote:

Hi elmo,
Actually, the company I am dealing with is one of the one's that you mentioned above
________________________________________________________

Just for the record, we (DBOF) are not the company in question here.

Brad
----------------

Holy smokes, Brad, you're here! Welcome!!!

Brad, I had every confidence to know this, but I'm glad you came out to speak it for yourself.

AGBF, guess what? Brad's here!!!!

 

[Kamuelamom]

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On 7/25/2003 10

3:26 AM elmo wrote:

----------------
On 7/24/2003 11

3:51 PM niceice wrote:

Has DBOF started evaluating every diamond that they sell now? We're glad to hear it...
----------------

As far as I know, they've never drop shipped a stone, everything gets checked out pretty thoroughly. Furthermore, they don't make subtle implications like this about you guys, and because I've come to respect your business over the years as well, I'm a little surprised you'd make a comment like this...a class act like niceice doesn't have to use this sort of tactic.

Well said, Elmo. And since Brad did not clarify this point I will take the liberty of doing so since I had personal experience in working with them. DBOF *does not* drop ship stones. They *do* evaluate each stone that they sell.

 

[AGBF]

Although I have not gotten to know Robin and Todd well yet, I have to agree with the characterization that "Nice Ice" is a "class act". (Robin's dislike of camping would confirm me in that opinion even if I didn't know Robin and Todd from their postings here.)

As a very happy, long time customer of DBOF (Diamond Brokers of Florida) I am in accord that Nice Ice doesn't have to resort to implying Jan and Brad (DBOF) ever did anything other than check out every diamond they sold. Over the past 3 and 1/2 years I have bought five diamonds from DBOF. (All were 1/2 carat or under! Don't get excited!) I bought two 1/2 carat round brilliants in earrings; a small round brilliant set in a pendant on a chain for my daughter; and, recently, I bought two pears to be set in a ring as sidestones to a red spinel.

Whenever I bought a diamond from DBOF it came with a huge amount of documentation as well as the GIA or AGS certificate. There was always a description of the piece of jewelry and a detailed description of the stone. I *also* know there was no drop shipping because I often asked Brad to take *PHOTOS* of the stone he had in!

I bought a red spinel and strands of cultured pearls and pearl earrings from Jan and Brad, too, you see. When I thought I might like to set my spinel with a pear shaped diamonds on either side I simply called or e-mailed Jan and asked her to make Brad take a picture of my spinel flanked by pears so that I could see what it would look like!

Service from them is *very* personal. I don't want anyone who doesn't know them to think otherwise.

Todd, I hope you enjoy the vacation! I look forward to your return because I am getting quite fond of you!

 

[Kamuelamom]

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On 7/25/2003 10:18:15 AM niceice wrote:

----------------
On 7/25/2003 10

3:26 AM elmo wrote:

Didn't miss your point, I think we're in violent agreement

.

----------------

Great minds think alike... Well, we're out of here for a few days to to camping in Washington with some friends... Well, camping with a 25' trailer, I couldn't get Robin to climb inside of a tent... Robin's idea of "camping" is a room at any Four Seasons Hotel within an hour's drive of a forest or beach... This should be interesting... We'll be back Wednesday afternoon or so...

----------------

I'd love to camp in a 25' trailer in the Pacific Northwest! Although, lately, we have become quite used to forest camping in a tent.

And...the Four Seasons wouldn't be too bad either!

I have some friends who just moved to Roseburg, OR, and they have sent me some incredible outdoor pictures.

 

[pyramid]

kayla17 I am not trying to belittle your argument as I do not know about S&H fees but just wanted to add that when I finally am able to buy my diamond from the United States, as I am living in the United Kingdom I will be liable for 17.5% tax and 5% import duty charge. I work this out (for the purpose of my saving) to be in the region of £1000 or $1,621.00.

How much are S&H charges in the US as I will probably have to figure that in an increased amount when my stone is shipped to the United Kingdom? Am I looking at hundreds of dollars here?

 

[AGBF]

On 7/26/2003 3:16:10 PM pyramid wrote:

"Am I looking at hundreds of dollars here?"

Absolutely not. At least not with any on-line seller I have used. As Todd said, though, sometimes the shipping (and handling) are built into the price. How one tells how much he is paying for the shipping, then, is a tad difficult .

Deb

 

[pyramid]

AGBF/Deb Thanks for that.

 

[LesleyH]

Kayla:

I think I need to explain the shipping dilemma here so that it is clear and fair.

Whiteflash includes one free shipping with all purchases. If a customer decides that they want to either send the stone first to an independent appraiser like D Atlas or to themselves first to view the diamond prior to setting, then that constitutes the free shipping. Any subsequent shipping charges are incurred by the customer. Whiteflash does not charge any handling fee. The shipping charge is for shipping/insurance. We run into this type of request on a daily basis, particularly with customers who want to view the H and A patterns in our A CUT ABOVE diamonds prior to setting it. This is the customer's perogative.

Also, in response to the shipping being built in, I don't know what my fellow vendors do, but we do not deduct a shipping charge if a customer comes into our showroom and picks up the diamond/ring. The price is the price and we really consider ourselves to be giving complimentary shipping - I see our shipping bills each month and due to our volume they are high - we are saving our customers a great deal of money.

Yes, it is preferable to have Vatche set the diamond so that the setting is under warranty, but we have many many customers who have the diamond set locally, so even though it is not our recommendation it is an option.

LesleyH
www.whiteflash.com

 

[elmo]

Sounds like there's more than one potential misunderstanding here...

So it's still not clear to me, Kayla...on this $7000 upgrade, would you receive one free shipping, i.e. to Vatche? Or was the one free shipping provided only for the original purcase?

Regardless, Lesley, it sounds like you still have a dissatisfied customer, i.e. on cost details regarding the setting, possibly due to a miscommunication, possibly due to a subsequent issue with Vatche, I dunno.