Visible differences between a LGD and mined diamond? Am I imagining things or is it possible?

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

I stopped in at a popular LGD jeweller recently because I wanted to buy a pair of studs the same size as my mined ones for travel. I looked at a pair that was the same size (4ctw) and a tiny bit whiter (one was an H and one was a G) than mine, both stones IGI certified; but I could see a visible difference between the LGD and my mined diamonds in terms of the undertone of colour - the LGDs looked more grey and the mined diamonds more yellow. I don’t know if I’m psyching myself out, and the difference was subtle; but there was a distinct difference to my eyes.

Am I imagining it, or is it possible? There were no comments on the IGI certs that jumped out at me. And is it something that would be noticeable while worn?

 

[freddyboston]

Labs are mostly type 2a so they're missing the Nitrogen which causes the yellow hue in warm color naturals...

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

Labs are mostly type 2a so they're missing the Nitrogen which causes the yellow hue in warm color naturals...

That makes sense! I was tripping myself out because I’ve read everywhere that labs are indistinguishable from naturals, and I certainly didn’t think so when I saw those stones. I mean, a casual glance, yes; but I didn’t realise how much the lack of very very slight warmth (or addition of very slight extra coolness) would be jarring to me.

Now I wonder if you’d get the same effect with lab and natural D colours? Or those wouldn’t read as different since both have zero colour?

 

[0-0-0]

Yes odd tints are more common in lab grown diamonds. The same can occur in natural diamonds, just with much less frequency.

In my experience both GIA and IGI graded D color HPHT and CVD grown labs look colorless. I can only pick out the odd tints starting from E color.

 

[freddyboston]

I find that transparent (no graining + no clouds) Natural "Blue White" D's read differently.... slightly brighter and whiter than lab D's when the Nat stone converts UV energy into the visible spectrum....

That makes sense! I was tripping myself out because I’ve read everywhere that labs are indistinguishable from naturals, and I certainly didn’t think so when I saw those stones. I mean, a casual glance, yes; but I didn’t realise how much the lack of very very slight warmth (or addition of very slight extra coolness) would be jarring to me.

Now I wonder if you’d get the same effect with lab and natural D colours? Or those wouldn’t read as different since both have zero colour?

 

[0515vision]

Poor quality CVD and HPHT will exhibit graining which will affect how they look. They grey tinge is something we’ve seen here on PS, and tinges (LGD or mined) aren’t a part of certs.

I wonder if you would see a difference between high quality LGD and mined.

This is why we ask posters to include videos. There’s so much bad equality rough out there.

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

Yes odd tints are more common in lab grown diamonds. The same can occur in natural diamonds, just with much less frequency.

In my experience both GIA and IGI graded D color HPHT and CVD grown labs look colorless. I can only pick out the odd tints starting from E color.

It’s kind of amazing that you can pick out the tints starting from E colour at all, actually. I didn’t look at any of the higher colour stuff up close because I wanted to get something as close to my own natural studs as I could, but I wonder whether I would be able to see the difference as I am not super colour sensitive and E just looks white to me, personally, with mined.

Poor quality CVD and HPHT will exhibit graining which will affect how they look. They grey tinge is something we’ve seen here on PS, and tinges (LGD or mined) aren’t a part of certs.

I wonder if you would see a difference between high quality LGD and mined.

This is why we ask posters to include videos. There’s so much bad equality rough out there.

I don’t have videos unfortunately, it was out of curiosity that I asked on here but no idea if what I saw was just bad quality rough! Since these are for travel I’d only buy if the price and look are both right, and I didn’t like the look of those so they’re out of consideration.

It does seem weird to me that labs don’t include tinge information in reports, though I guess they don’t do that for mined diamonds either.

I’d love to see some really high quality LGDs and compare them to mined to know definitively. I’m fairly confident that with a casual glance I won’t be able to tell, but less sure how they’d hold up to scrutiny. Though higher colour ones are likelier to fool me.

I will say though that the sort of steely grey colour is something I’ve never noticed in a mined diamond. It’s not so much the absence of yellow but the addition of grey that stands out. Even D colour diamonds, which have no yellow in them, don’t lean grey - maybe very very faintly blue, if anything, but not grey; at least from what I’ve seen? Though I’ve only seen a couple D coloured mined diamonds in person from what I know.

 

[0-0-0]

I don’t think I’m super color sensitive either. I only start to notice yellow tint in GIA/AGS graded H/I color natural rounds, D-G colors look similar to me. D-F colors in lab diamonds without odd tints look similar to me. But I can see pink/brown tint in untreated CVD grown lab rounds and blue/grey tint in HPHT grown lab rounds with blue nuance in GIA/IGI graded E/F colors. The color difference with the change in tint is more apparent to me.

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

I don’t think I’m super color sensitive either. I only start to notice yellow tint in GIA/AGS graded H/I color natural rounds, D-G colors look similar to me. D-F colors in lab diamonds without odd tints look similar to me. But I can see pink/brown tint in untreated CVD grown lab rounds and blue/grey tint in HPHT grown lab rounds with blue nuance in GIA/IGI graded E/F colors. The color difference with the change in tint is more apparent to me.

GIA H or I is about the earliest I can see colour too, though it doesn't become bothersome to me until about K levels. Though I've seen some spectacular L colours that you'd swear were J colour before. But I digress.

I guess it's the difference in what you're expecting (pink/brown/blue/grey tint instead of yellow) that stands out so much. Like the brain almost deletes the faint yellow tint with natural diamonds, but the unusual colour tint is jarring because you're not expecting it, so it becomes more visible to you.

 

[0515vision]

There was a thread maybe just over a year ago where someone bought a D-E-F diamond from Lightbox that had a grey tinge. They didn't notice at first and then had to return it. @Kim N might remember that thread?

There was also a great GIA talk about the visible differences between lab and mined diamonds, and I wish I could find it. It's been posted a few times here.

I have a feeling that you'd be able to see the difference between high quality and low quality rough, especially with extensive graining and tinge.

Were those studs cut to PS standards? Poor cut is also going to bring out color more.

If you're willing to pay the money for a possible return, you could ask Alex Park to find a pair of H/I studs in that weight and see what you think. Alex has as good eye by PS standards.

 

[0-0-0]

@0515vision

Ada Diamonds Founders at GIA

<p class="" style="white-space:pre-wrap;">Ada’s founders Lindsay Reinsmith and Jason guest lecture at GIA on the quality characteristics of lab diamonds beyond the 4 c’s.

www.adadiamonds.com

Being able to see the color vs being bothered by the color is definitely 2 different things. I kept an I color with pink/brown tint, but returned a F color with pink/brown tint. I returned a F color emerald cut with blue tint, but look for H&A rounds in E/F/G colors with blue tint.

 

[Karl_K]

I wonder if you would see a difference between high quality LGD and mined.

Sure you could if you looked hard enough the same way you could with "high quality" stones from mined rough compared to each other.

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

There was a thread maybe just over a year ago where someone bought a D-E-F diamond from Lightbox that had a grey tinge. They didn't notice at first and then had to return it. @Kim N might remember that thread?

There was also a great GIA talk about the visible differences between lab and mined diamonds, and I wish I could find it. It's been posted a few times here.

I have a feeling that you'd be able to see the difference between high quality and low quality rough, especially with extensive graining and tinge.

Were those studs cut to PS standards? Poor cut is also going to bring out color more.

If you're willing to pay the money for a possible return, you could ask Alex Park to find a pair of H/I studs in that weight and see what you think. Alex has as good eye by PS standards.

The studs I saw weren’t super ideals or anything, but they were cut to typical Tolkowsky proportions and looked quite nice to the eye. I didn’t have an issue with the cut, just the colour.

Unfortunately I live in India, buying from overseas is just an absolute impossibility. The nice thing is that I’m spoiled for choice in terms of inventory, so I’m sure I’ll be able to find a nice pair eventually, just want to make sure I can get it at a good enough price lol and wanted to know what to look for to not end up with the grey tint.

@0515vision

Ada Diamonds Founders at GIA

<p class="" style="white-space:pre-wrap;">Ada’s founders Lindsay Reinsmith and Jason guest lecture at GIA on the quality characteristics of lab diamonds beyond the 4 c’s.

www.adadiamonds.com

Being able to see the color vs being bothered by the color is definitely 2 different things. I kept an I color with pink/brown tint, but returned a F color with pink/brown tint. I returned a F color emerald cut with blue tint, but look for H&A rounds in E/F/G colors with blue tint.

Thank you for posting the link! I’m going to watch this talk today.

Sure you could if you looked hard enough the same way you could with "high quality" stones from mined rough compared to each other.

What are the things that pop out as differences between LGDs and EGDs?

 

[vintage diamond]

I just bought a pair of lab diamond studs from Whiteflash in D color. They are icey white/clear. I'm extremely color sensitive, so if something was off I'm confident I would notice it. Not all lab diamonds have tinges to them. The better jewelers out there will vet their lab diamonds and not sell ones that have tint issues.

 

[Karl_K]

What are the things that pop out as differences between LGDs and EGDs?

All grading is based at 10x magnification except uv and color.
Also some things are ignored or just comments.
If you looked at 100x or 500x you would see a lot more things not taken into consideration by the grading system.

UV reaction under different wavelengths is used to tell lab from mined.
There is a huge variation in mined reaction to UV also so its another thing that differentiates between different mined stones.

 

[Kim N]

Here are some greyish/brownish LGD.

Loupe360

loupe360.com

Loupe360

loupe360.com

Compared to an LGD with tint more closely mimicking natural stones.

Loupe360

loupe360.com

I think there is a lot more vetting to do with LGD since there's so much poor quality rough out there.

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

I just bought a pair of lab diamond studs from Whiteflash in D color. They are icey white/clear. I'm extremely color sensitive, so if something was off I'm confident I would notice it. Not all lab diamonds have tinges to them. The better jewelers out there will vet their lab diamonds and not sell ones that have tint issues.

Congrats on your studs! If they’re WF they’re not just colourless but also beautifully cut!

I also wonder if D colour studs (graded by a reputable lab) in general are precluded from odd tints since they are by definition completely colourless. Unfortunately for me, I want the LGDs to be as indistinguishable from my own studs as possible, so the highest I can go with colour is probably around H. So I have a lot more wading through rough to do :/

All grading is based at 10x magnification except uv and color.
Also some things are ignored or just comments.
If you looked at 100x or 500x you would see a lot more things not taken into consideration by the grading system.

UV reaction under different wavelengths is used to tell lab from mined.
There is a huge variation in mined reaction to UV also so its another thing that differentiates between different mined stones.

Thanks for the answer! If UV reaction for labs and mined is different, that actually could mean that they respond differently in sunlight as well, right? I mean it may not be that obvious of a difference, but still in some cases maybe.

Here are some greyish/brownish LGD.

Loupe360

loupe360.com

Loupe360

loupe360.com

Compared to an LGD with tint more closely mimicking natural stones.

Loupe360

loupe360.com

I think there is a lot more vetting to do with LGD since there's so much poor quality rough out there.

What’s interesting is that the tint doesn’t seem so obvious to me in the videos (or a bit maybe but not smacking me in the face the way the ones in person did), but definitely were visible in person. Or put differently, once you see it you can’t unsee it.

 

[Karl_K]

Thanks for the answer! If UV reaction for labs and mined is different, that actually could mean that they respond differently in sunlight as well, right? I mean it may not be that obvious of a difference, but still in some cases maybe.

Mined is much more reactive to UV as of right now visible reaction to UV in sunlight points very strongly to being mined.
However Phosphorescence - glow in dark after exposure to strong UV is more common in lab.

In mined usually a Phosphorescence stone is also visible UV reactive but that is not true for labs.

 

[MMtwo]

Mined is much more reactive to UV as of right now visible reaction to UV in sunlight points very strongly to being mined.
However Phosphorescence - glow in dark after exposure to strong UV is more common in lab.

In mined usually a Phosphorescence stone is also visible UV reactive but that is not true for labs.

So far all my strong or v. strong blue fluorescents also are at least slightly phosphorescent. Two sb actually glow yellow.

 

[Karl_K]

So far all my strong or v. strong blue fluorescents also are at least slightly phosphorescent. Two sb actually glow yellow.

Neat!!!

 

[purplesilk]

Very very interesting thread!!!
I've been shown some lab diamonds in the 3 ct range and I found them weird...maybe it was poor material or poor cut or possibly both, but I could tell something was off and different from mined diamonds.

 

[Inked]

I DEFINITELY notice a grey tinge in some labs when i look at the loupe360, and find those to look not as great in all lighting conditions to the naked eye. It's not even that you see the grey when you look at it, it just didnt look as great in all lights (like my car was notoriously bad)

My first ever lab from Alex Parks I think may have been like this, but at the time is was my first one so i didnt know or couldnt articulate what it was. It was perfect most of the time, but i didnt like it in my car, i thought maybe it was just reflecting the interior of the car or something (which is grey), and there was no loupe360, he had just cut it himself.

Any new ones i have gotten that are my recuts I specifically chose the MRB to recut to make sure it was casting a color other than grey, I went through this at length in my posts about the recuts, like a pretty vanilla color is my go to, one i got a cool peach color (which happens to be my favorite diamond of all time, it's so incredibly gorgeous, i want to sell it because i dont need it but i cant part with it!).

Looking back now I understand what it was that bothered me and why i felt like mined vs lab WAS different. At the time, even when i first got my recut i didnt connect the dots. I dont een actually know for sure this is what my issue was, i can only guess, i am no way an expert, but now that I have controlled what i perceived as that 'grey' by choosing MRB to start with that dont have what i perceive with my eyes to be a grey cast, I am now obsessed with my labs and would never go back. They look amazing all the time. And for the record, mine do actually have the striation, i wanted the color so i ignored it. With that very first one i bought, i didnt have a loupe 360 and honestly I dont think i would have even noticed it if I did. It wasnt until my first recut that I was looking at literally hundreds of them that I started to be able to see the grey vs yellow vs any other undertone.. and i dont like what my eyes perceive as the grey, and i can see it in D/E but it's harder so i actually prefer a lower color so that background tint comes out more and i know what i am getting lol

 

[Karl_K]

The same thing happens with mined diamonds some people cant stand def stones because of the steely look of the crystal.
Some prefer brown tone g vs yellow and some the reverse and some are like huh?
As the stones get bigger the difference is more visible.
There are the same variations in mined part of why people see it more in lab is that they tend to be bigger and people are looking or it.