vivid lime green diamond - treated????

[T L]

Are there coatings that cause this color, or other types of treatment? I''m not sure if I''m asking this in the right part of the PS forum, so if it is not, please let me know. This diamond could be natural in color, but I would like to know if this color can be simulated in a diamond this color.

This is a screen capture from an unenhanced video, and the color is not being caused by fluorescence.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

This is typical of a HPHT treated color that I have seen.
The color is aided by fluoro.

 

[T L]

Date: 12/22/2009 11:38:27 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
This is typical of a HPHT treated color that I have seen.
The color is aided by fluoro.

Even if the video is not shot under fluorescent lighting?

BTW, thank you so much for this information. I really appreciate it.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Fluorescent lighting does not have as much UV light as halogens and many other light sources - no where near as much as daylight

 

[Nacre]

This colour screams HPHT. I have not seen a natural untreated diamond this colour.

 

[T L]

Thank you so much for your responses, I appreciate them, and they were very helpful.

 

[Indylady]

This diamond is from Diamonds by Lauren and has a very similar color. They''ve scanned in their GIA report and it doesn''t mention treatments at all. The GIA report is for color only; would a report like that fail to include treatments? Does this seem to be treated?
Link to Diamond

 

[LD]

If you look at the report it says Origin = Natural. I'm not entirely sure whether ALL the different reports have this on them.

I suspect this diamond however looks yellow nearly all the time - rather than the vivid green of Tapio's he showed us the other day. The one you've linked to has strong fluor and I suspect that's what's making it only appear green.

 

[Indylady]

LD, if that were the case, wouldn''t it be called a Fancy Yellow instead of a Fancy Greenish Yellow like the GIA cert. says?

 

[LD]

No. The "greenish" only means that there are hints of green. So it is a yellow that veers towards the greener end of the spectrum (rather than brown or grey for example). If you look at the video that David posted for that diamond you can clearly see that it looks yellow. However, when it shows its fluor, thats when you see green as the predominate colour and David has said that his grading for this is that the diamond has a strong green fluor.

A diamond graded as "green" as the predominate colour, rather than just a modifier of greenish will always attract more $$$$ than a greenish yellow, greenish [insert any other colour]. A vivid Green (as Tapio has indicated his diamond is) is very rare.

Giving you another example, my Chameleon is a brownish, greenish, yellow (I think the GIA wanted to include every colour here)! Obviously, it can't look all colours all of the time otherwise it would look a mess! The yellow is the predominate stable colour but it does look brownish less often than it looks greenish - but both colours are evident in certain conditions.

 

[serenitydiamonds]

Unfortunately, with green diamonds, it''s not possible for GIA (or any other lab) to determine if it is natural or treated as the method of creating green is exactly the same as the natural technique. This is for green diamonds only though

--Joshua

 

[LD]

Date: 1/3/2010 10:22:19 AM
Author: serenitydiamonds
Unfortunately, with green diamonds, it's not possible for GIA (or any other lab) to determine if it is natural or treated as the method of creating green is exactly the same as the natural technique. This is for green diamonds only though

--Joshua

Joshua - thank you! Of course you're correct.

I do believe though that IF the GIA have seen the rough then they will certify it as natural? Presumably this is rare however.

 

[serenitydiamonds]

Date: 1/3/2010 10:32:33 AM
Author: LovingDiamonds

Date: 1/3/2010 10:22:19 AM

Author: serenitydiamonds

Unfortunately, with green diamonds, it''s not possible for GIA (or any other lab) to determine if it is natural or treated as the method of creating green is exactly the same as the natural technique. This is for green diamonds only though


--Joshua

Joshua - thank you! Of course you''re correct.


I do believe though that IF the GIA have seen the rough then they will certify it as natural? Presumably this is rare however.

Well, unfortunately they are also irradiated (colored green) in rough form, so I wouldn''t think so. What GIA trained me is that it is impossible to tell if the green is natural, so that I guess is their official opinion.

Origin = Natural refers to the fact it is a natural diamond, but relating nothing to color.
--Joshua

 

[LD]

Date: 1/3/2010 10:46:34 AM
Author: serenitydiamonds

Date: 1/3/2010 10:32:33 AM
Author: LovingDiamonds

Date: 1/3/2010 10:22:19 AM

Author: serenitydiamonds

Unfortunately, with green diamonds, it''s not possible for GIA (or any other lab) to determine if it is natural or treated as the method of creating green is exactly the same as the natural technique. This is for green diamonds only though


--Joshua

Joshua - thank you! Of course you''re correct.


I do believe though that IF the GIA have seen the rough then they will certify it as natural? Presumably this is rare however.

Well, unfortunately they are also irradiated (colored green) in rough form, so I wouldn''t think so. What GIA trained me is that it is impossible to tell if the green is natural, so that I guess is their official opinion.

Origin = Natural refers to the fact it is a natural diamond, but relating nothing to color.
--Joshua

Joshua - for Origin GIA also enters a notation for stable treatments such as "irradiated" or "HPHT" instead of natural if applicable. I think that was what IndyLady was questionning.

 

[elle_chris]

The only time that diamond looks greenish to me is in the close up pics. It looks yellow in the rest of the photos as well as the video.

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 12/22/2009 11:02:44 PM
Author:tourmaline_lover

This is a screen capture from an unenhanced video, and the color is not being caused by fluorescence.

Who shot the video? Can you give us a link to it?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Indylady]

Tapio must have quite a rare diamond.

 

[LD]

Date: 1/3/2010 11:06:38 AM
Author: denverappraiser

Date: 12/22/2009 11:02:44 PM
Author:tourmaline_lover

This is a screen capture from an unenhanced video, and the color is not being caused by fluorescence.

Who shot the video? Can you give us a link to it?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

Neil just to clarify, the video we were referring to above is the one in the DBL link. Apologies if you had realised that but this thread has sort of gone off on a tangent! lol I don''t think any of us have seen the video for the diamond that initially started this thread.

 

[T L]

Date: 1/3/2010 10:22:19 AM
Author: serenitydiamonds
Unfortunately, with green diamonds, it''s not possible for GIA (or any other lab) to determine if it is natural or treated as the method of creating green is exactly the same as the natural technique. This is for green diamonds only though

--Joshua

I thought the GIA could tell the difference based on radiation stains, as in the case of the GIA certified diamond in this link.

http://www.adamasgem.org/gehpht.html

What about all the fancy green diamonds that do have natural certificates? How does the GIA determine that they''re natural in color?

http://www.fancydiamonds.net/certificate/2a7ee.jpg/view_diamonds/3444.htm

 

[T L]

Date: 1/3/2010 11:06:38 AM
Author: denverappraiser

Date: 12/22/2009 11:02:44 PM
Author:tourmaline_lover

This is a screen capture from an unenhanced video, and the color is not being caused by fluorescence.

Who shot the video? Can you give us a link to it?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

I have recently found out that this is a true color treated diamond, but the color is very vivid, unlike the DBL diamond in this thread, where I see a primary color of yellow. The diamond in the top picture that I posted is a kryptonite green, and remains that color regardless of the lighting conditions.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Date: 1/2/2010 5:12:21 PM
Author: IndyLady
This diamond is from Diamonds by Lauren and has a very similar color. They've scanned in their GIA report and it doesn't mention treatments at all. The GIA report is for color only; would a report like that fail to include treatments? Does this seem to be treated?

HI all.
In answer to the part in bold- GIA would indicate HTHP on a color only report.I believe they also laser inscribe the diamond identifying it as HTHP.
To my knowledge GIA won't issue reports on irradiated diamonds.

My experience is that GIA will classify many green diamonds as "undetermined" based on the difficulty of verifying pure green diamonds.
However it's clearly not impossible in GIA's eyes, as they do grade some stone ( incredibly few) "pure" green- as tourmaline_lover points out.
I was speaking to a cutter of super high value stones- and he said that he submits the green rough to GIA before polishing, as well as resubmitting for inspection at points during the cutting process.
It's such a rare and expensive color in diamonds that it makes sense to go to all that trouble.
BTW- all of this only pertains to pure green.
Any modifying color ( besides blue) will decimate the value. It will also make it far easier for GIA to determine origin.

Adding an "ish" at the end of the color lessens it's presence in the overall hue.
Fancy Green Yellow is more green than Fancy Greenish Yellow- such as the example posted.
The diamond clearly had a greenish tint- in almost all lighting- however it was not "stable".
That is to say if you changed the lighting, the amount of green you notice changes distinctly.


In many of my photos there is a large element of natural sunlight, therefore fluorescence is activated. Sunlight definitely played a role in the photo IndyLady posted.
But there was still an element of green even if you viewed the diamond under a diamond light with no sunlight present.
Although the primary color was yellow, it was clearly different than a fancy yellow.

Irradiated diamonds that fluoresce do not change color when exposed to sunlight-sounding more like what TL mentioned.

 

[LD]

Thank you David - I was pretty certain that if the rough was submitted it was possible for the GIA to certify a pure green as natural. I would think, as you say, that this is very few and far between!!!

I''ve noticed on the GIA website that they say they will state if a diamond is irradiated - in the "origin" section - is that new? See link half way down page:

http://www.gia.edu/lab-reports-services/diamonds/diamond-reports/index.html

 

[T L]

Date: 1/3/2010 2:30:42 PM
Author: Rockdiamond


HI all.
In answer to the part in bold- GIA would indicate HTHP on a color only report.I believe they also laser inscribe the diamond identifying it as HTHP.
To my knowledge GIA won't issue reports on irradiated diamonds.

My experience is that GIA will classify many green diamonds as 'undetermined' based on the difficulty of verifying pure green diamonds.
However it's clearly not impossible in GIA's eyes, as they do grade some stone ( incredibly few) 'pure' green- as tourmaline_lover points out.
I was speaking to a cutter of super high value stones- and he said that he submits the green rough to GIA before polishing, as well as resubmitting for inspection at points during the cutting process.
It's such a rare and expensive color in diamonds that it makes sense to go to all that trouble.
BTW- all of this only pertains to pure green.
Any modifying color ( besides blue) will decimate the value. It will also make it far easier for GIA to determine origin.

Adding an 'ish' at the end of the color lessens it's presence in the overall hue.
Fancy Green Yellow is more green than Fancy Greenish Yellow- such as the example posted.
The diamond clearly had a greenish tint- in almost all lighting- however it was not 'stable'.
That is to say if you changed the lighting, the amount of green you notice changes distinctly.


In many of my photos there is a large element of natural sunlight, therefore fluorescence is activated. Sunlight definitely played a role in the photo IndyLady posted.
But there was still an element of green even if you viewed the diamond under a diamond light with no sunlight present.
Although the primary color was yellow, it was clearly different than a fancy yellow.

Irradiated diamonds that fluoresce do not change color when exposed to sunlight-sounding more like what TL mentioned.

I know for a fact they laser inscribe HPHT synthetics, but do they laser inscribe HPHT color treated natural diamonds? The GIA does grade synthetics and has a special certificate denoting it's synthetic, but HPHT color treated ones???

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 1/3/2010 5:10:33 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover

I know for a fact they laser inscribe HPHT synthetics, but do they laser inscribe HPHT color treated natural diamonds? The GIA does grade synthetics and has a special certificate denoting it''s synthetic, but HPHT color treated ones???

GIA does grade HPHT diamonds.
Thay began in 1999 when GE developed a method to remove the color from large type II rough.

 

[T L]

Date: 1/3/2010 6:21:57 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 1/3/2010 5:10:33 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover

I know for a fact they laser inscribe HPHT synthetics, but do they laser inscribe HPHT color treated natural diamonds? The GIA does grade synthetics and has a special certificate denoting it's synthetic, but HPHT color treated ones???

GIA does grade HPHT diamonds.
Thay began in 1999 when GE developed a method to remove the color from large type II rough.

I know they grade HPHT synthetics, but what about HPHT color treated naturals? I think the latter is what you're referring too, but if you could clarify, it would be appreciated.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

GIA grade all High Temperature High Pressure natural diamonds.
The most controversial of these decisions was in 1999 when Lazare Kaplan began a marketing arrangement for brown diamonds that were HPHT treated by GE to make them colorless. Many of these stones were very very large.
The then Chairman of GIA was also the head of LK - it caused a bit of a stir as many believed that GIA should not grade treated diamonds. GE / LK believed there should be no notation since the treatment was permanent and was similar to a natural process. The decision to grade but note the treatment was largely seen as a compromise deal.

GIA have refused to grade glass filled diamonds CE, fracture filled etc (the reason being the treatment is not permanent.
But they do grade laser drilled stones.
Should they grade synthetics?

Difficult decisions.

 

[serenitydiamonds]

Date: 1/3/2010 7:37:58 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
GIA grade all High Temperature High Pressure natural diamonds.

The most controversial of these decisions was in 1999 when Lazare Kaplan began a marketing arrangement for brown diamonds that were HPHT treated by GE to make them colorless. Many of these stones were very very large.

The then Chairman of GIA was also the head of LK - it caused a bit of a stir as many believed that GIA should not grade treated diamonds. GE / LK believed there should be no notation since the treatment was permanent and was similar to a natural process. The decision to grade but note the treatment was largely seen as a compromise deal.


GIA have refused to grade glass filled diamonds CE, fracture filled etc (the reason being the treatment is not permanent.

But they do grade laser drilled stones.

Should they grade synthetics?


Difficult decisions.

Very difficult question, I think the danger is grading synthetics may lend credibility to them.

--Joshua

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 1/3/2010 8:28:30 PM
Author: serenitydiamonds

Date: 1/3/2010 7:37:58 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
GIA grade all High Temperature High Pressure natural diamonds.

The most controversial of these decisions was in 1999 when Lazare Kaplan began a marketing arrangement for brown diamonds that were HPHT treated by GE to make them colorless. Many of these stones were very very large.

The then Chairman of GIA was also the head of LK - it caused a bit of a stir as many believed that GIA should not grade treated diamonds. GE / LK believed there should be no notation since the treatment was permanent and was similar to a natural process. The decision to grade but note the treatment was largely seen as a compromise deal.


GIA have refused to grade glass filled diamonds CE, fracture filled etc (the reason being the treatment is not permanent.

But they do grade laser drilled stones.

Should they grade synthetics?


Difficult decisions.

Very difficult question, I think the danger is grading synthetics may lend credibility to them.

--Joshua

Hi Joshua,
I have no more fear of synthetic diamonds than you probably have of synthetic emeralds.

They will have their place, and many of the manufacturers are very nice and strictly ethical people.
Have you seen the forum here
https://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/forum.asp?forumID=60

 

[T L]

As a side note, I was able to confirm that the diamond in the first post above was colored by HPHT.

 

[dkodner]

Hello all,

The color in LD''s first picture is certainly indicative of what you see in HPHT, but there are natural diamonds that have this same color/look. Although the stone from David''s site is different (and we don''t know how the first diamond was photographed), it''s a good example, and with more saturation, would be very close to the first stone. I would make the assumption however, always, that if a stone looks anything like a synthetic color, assume that it is synthetic, until proven otherwise.

With all respect Joshua- The GIA does grade some diamonds natural green. David is right on, I know that the handful of pure greens that I have seen/owned were all submitted in the rough, and then several times throughout the cutting process. They were well documented as to where and when they were mined as well. Origin on a colored diamond report does indeed mean origin of color, not just that it is a natural diamond. You should see an inscription on the HPHT even on colored diamonds.

Hope that helps.