Waffling about a Paraiba’s inclusions

[polarisfire]

Hi everyone, I got this glowy blue green .65 Brazilian paraiba from Karen of HiddenTreasureGems, and from far away I love the glow, sparkle, cut and color. Butttt once you get close you can see one of the dark inclusions popping out at you on one of the corners of the gem. I’m thinking it could be covered with aggressive metal coverage on that side with setting but I don’t know if that would cover up too much of the small real estate? I keep waffling on whether I should keep it due to the rest of it being worth it and this is just par for the Brazilian course, or whether the inclusion is too much.

Would appreciate opinions and thoughts: (my pics)




Thanks!!

 

[arkieb1]

I purchased a stone from her and it was heavily treated and oiled. She is a lovely lady but buyer beware on paraiba from this vendor.

 

[elle_71125]

It looks like it has a lovely glow and I love the color but I totally see what you mean about the corner. Personally, I wouldn’t cover the whole corner because it’s taking up too much real estate. As for whether you should keep the gem, I think it depends on you. If it’s bothering you now, do you think you can learn to love it? Or will you end up hating?

I have a couple paraibas and they all have inclusions and usually small windows (I haven’t won the lottery yet and therefore can’t afford the top quality material). I love the glow so much that it doesn’t matter to me. Having said that, there are pieces that even I have sent back. If this isn’t the one for you, you’ll find another.

 

[Anne111]

It always depends on the discount you get for the flaw. It looks great and if you cover the corner and get 25% off, why not?

 

[T L]

I’d honestly be worried about setting it as that inclusion looks like a fracture, and that’s a vulnerable position to place a prong.

 

[icy_jade]

I’d honestly be worried about setting it as that inclusion looks like a fracture, and that’s a vulnerable position to place a prong.

That. Personally I will pass

 

[lovedogs]

If you aren't totally in love, return it. Paraiba is too expensive to keep something you aren't 100% about .

 

[Rare gem lover]

I purchased a stone from her and it was heavily treated and oiled. She is a lovely lady but buyer beware on paraiba from this vendor.

Oh that’s interesting....Did you certify that paraiba and the certificate say it was heavily oiled? As in how could you tell?

 

[polarisfire]

Yes indeed, wondering how you could tell?

 

[arkieb1]

No when I put pressure on it, the stone looked like it shattered internally. The vendor said it was oil only, which is incorrect, I've had many conversations with paraiba dealers (I have since become really good friends with a Brazilian guy that oils and treats his own stones) and even a few gemstone gurus (people that own or run labs) since that stone and the consensus is that oiling means actually filled with things like Opticon etc as well. And it isn't always stable so honestly I recommend heat only paraiba unless it's not going to be worn much and it's priced according to it being oiled and filled and the buyer understands how to take care of it.

Treated paraiba is a slippery slope. Heating is O.K it doesn't impact the durability of the stone, everything else is designed to hide or mask the inclusions in the stone, and when you bump, put pressure on or get near chemicals just like things like emeralds it can impact the durability of the stone.

One of my pet hates these days is "oiled" paraiba because one or two vendors on our PS recommended list and many people on Etsy sell them and people/the customers and often the vendors themselves have no clue what they are buying and selling. Some describe it as "oil only" which frequently is incorrect or they don't disclose it as all.

And YES AGL does describe most "olied" paraibas these days as being fractured filled....if you send one of these stones to them.

 

[polarisfire]

Ack!! And when you purchased from Karen did she list the item as having oil or having heat only? I also bought an intense glowy round from her at the same time and I love it, so I’m very concerned if it turns out to be heavily treated...she listed as possibly heat under treatments.

 

[distracts]

I don’t think I would buy a paraiba at any size without a lab report. Due to the expense of the material and that fakes are looking more and more real and treatment is more and more common, I’d need the peace of mine a lab report brings.

 

[polarisfire]

I took more pictures of the inclusion, and it looks like it's limited to the pavilion side of that corner and almost looks like it could be removed with a bit of cutting. (which would naturally cause it to lose weight and therefore value...?) This was my first time photographing through a loupe while balancing the stone on my hand at the same time - I feel like I've leveled up. Are there gem hobbyist merit badges? lolol




I think the last pic shows it best...Sigh it's otherwise a nice material.

 

[Rfisher]

Out of curiosity, how does yours compare price wise per carat compared to
https://www.etsy.com/listing/704000061/paraiba-tourmaline-trillion-paraiba



We all play the balancing game of cost = worthy to us in relation to color /size/clarity and availability.

With no lab report you are gambling. Laying a lot on the vendor’s truthful representation and reputation.
With the amount of inclusions these typically have, it’s a gamble as well.
I have sold both the paraiba I had. Love looking at it - just not comfortable owning it for both of these reasons and more.

 

[polarisfire]

It was about 1500/carat

 

[T L]

Oh ok, I have a paraiba like that with a brownish inclusion. It’s Mozambique as far as I know, but I was able to set it.

 

[GliderPoss]

It's very pretty but I would get a lab report to part with that sort of cash...

 

[arkieb1]

Ack!! And when you purchased from Karen did she list the item as having oil or having heat only? I also bought an intense glowy round from her at the same time and I love it, so I’m very concerned if it turns out to be heavily treated...she listed as possibly heat under treatments.

I think at the time it was listed as heat only or nothing, but I asked a lot of questions and then was told it was probably oiled. She had NO clue it was also filled with something like opticon. Two of the largest paraiba dealers/wholesalers at the Hong Kong gem shows and many around the world sell oiled filled stones that are heavily treated, because it hides the many many inclusions in them. These days most of the good stuff is mined out so they oil and fill the stones to hide how many inclusions the stones have and to make them look better for customers. And the material that doesn't need filling is super duper expensive.

The issue I have is many of these vendors are asking high prices for heavily treated stones and they themselves and the customers do not understand that....

 

[Anne111]

As so often: no report = no deal

 

[distracts]

I think at the time it was listed as heat only or nothing, but I asked a lot of questions and then was told it was probably oiled. She had NO clue it was also filled with something like opticon. Two of the largest paraiba dealers/wholesalers at the Hong Kong gem shows and many around the world sell oiled filled stones that are heavily treated, because it hides the many many inclusions in them. These days most of the good stuff is mined out so they oil and fill the stones to hide how many inclusions the stones have and to make them look better for customers. And the material that doesn't need filling is super duper expensive.

The issue I have is many of these vendors are asking high prices for heavily treated stones and they themselves and the customers do not understand that....

Yes - I know when I bought the paraiba I did recently a lot of people here were saying it was overpriced for the size/inclusions but from what I was finding from emailing people I was seeing similar prices on things that looked to be the same in terms of inclusions/color BUT many of them were oiled or fracture-filled. Whereas the AGL report on the stone I bought indicated nothing of the sort. So to me that was kind of where I drew the line, because I’m not knowledgeable enough about fillers to know what level if any is ok and how it will impact the stone’s appearance over time, so I’d really prefer one without. Despite how large my budget was, it wasn’t large enough for a 2 - or even 1.5 - ct eyeclean stone with good color and only heat treatment. But at least I was corresponding with vendors who had lab reports and knew their stones were treated (most recommended on previous paraiba threads only sell to the trade, it turns out, btw).

I also always assume “oiled” MEANS fracture-filled with opticon or the like, unless I have some kind of proof indicating otherwise.

 

[arkieb1]

@distracts - I think the term "oiled" depends on the type of stone we are talking about, this ranges from soaked in things like cooking oil only with spinels (yes literally really oiled), things like cedar oil only for emeralds, to mixed with fillers like Opticon for things like paraiba, so I don't think that it's always clear especially to people that are new here and aren't familiar with the types of oiling like we are.

I've had conversations with at least 3 "trusted" vendors and they claim their stones are oil only, when asked if there is fillers like Opticon they either say no or they think there isn't or they don't know, which proves either they are misleading customers or they have no clue themselves.

 

[polarisfire]

Update: I sent the original stone of this thread back to Karen because she said she would see about cleaning out the inclusion if it maybe just had polishing compound in it, or recutting it to get rid of the inclusion, or just refunding me. Waiting to see what she says when she gets it. I hope something can be worked out because I love the color (a little green leaning) and the brilliant glow

At the same as this one, I had gotten another stone from her that was more saturated but also much sleepier (alas, less sparkle) at the same time from her. Just sent that off to AGL - hoping they say no enhancements. It does have a bit of what looks like a natural on the edge of the table, and a little windowing, but the color is so good. Anyway, here's a bunch of photos