What to expect when working on a custom design

[EllieTO]

I'm planning to have my first custom ring(s?) made soon, and I'm wondering what to expect through the process to help me decide who might be the best fit for me.

How is pricing usually determined? Is there usually an upfront fee to begin working on a design? A fee per CAD and any iterations? Or an all-in estimate? It seems kind of chicken-and-egg because how would they give an accurate estimate without knowing where the design will land? But how would the customer commit without knowing an estimate? I want the vendor to be compensated for their early design work, but I also want to have an idea of what I'm getting into. It would be helpful to hear how some of the common PS vendors approach it.

I would also love to hear the "styles" of working for the common PS vendors. For example, I know with David Klass the customer does most of the design details, with minimal design advice from DK. What about others?

Who are some of the lesser-known vendors to consider?

 

[alene]

I imagine it depends on the vendor but having worked on several projects with David, can speak specifically to my experience. I usually provide a pretty detailed description of what I want, with photos. He provides a quote that is the exact all-in price, including all the CADs. He does not ask for a deposit. We usually go through several versions of the CAD before finalizing it (3 for my current project, which is about average for me), then send my stones and the final product is ready in a few weeks. Once I approve it, I send the full payment and he sends the piece to me. Again, I suspect others may work differently.

 

[MissGotRocks]

It also depends on what type and style of rings you are considering. Some are better at creating certain styles. The starting point would be to choose a vendor and contact them. They will answer all of your questions about processes and pricing. I don’t think there is a one size fits all in terms of vendors - their policies can be varied.

 

[RMOO]

I imagine it depends on the vendor but having worked on several projects with David, can speak specifically to my experience. I usually provide a pretty detailed description of what I want, with photos. He provides a quote that is the exact all-in price, including all the CADs. He does not ask for a deposit. We usually go through several versions of the CAD before finalizing it (3 for my current project, which is about average for me), then send my stones and the final product is ready in a few weeks. Once I approve it, I send the full payment and he sends the piece to me. Again, I suspect others may work differently.

How did you handle shipping your stones? This is the part that causes me pause.

 

[maryjane04]

How did you handle shipping your stones? This is the part that causes me pause.

If you're in the US, DK can send you a shipping label.

 

[Dreamer_D]

If you're in the US, DK can send you a shipping label.

Only for domestic shipping FYI. International you must do it yourself. I insured my loose stones by adding them to my JM policy.

 

[Dreamer_D]

With CVB we spoke on the phone and discussed what I wanted. She gave me an all-in fixed quote. We exchanged some CADs, and after a few I was told I could have one more before I had to pay another fee. We got it right the next one ( or right enough). Then I paid a 50% deposit and it went into production. She sent pictures, I approved, and then I paid the remainder and it shipped. Design wise she offered many ideas and interpreted my ideas. I got renderings, not CADs with measurements. The end design is a mix of our ideas based on her design elements. For example I wanted a three stone like her Maria but with engraving and antiquing, and she suggested the octagonal donuts. This was my first custom experience and I found it extremely stressful during the design phase because I found it so hard to communicate what I wanted in words. I originally wanted a different shank than we ended up with. I abandoned the idea because something was lost in translation and we couldn’t get it detail right in CAD. Later I learned to use drawings and design boards and it really helped a lot.



Yvonne Raley I sent pictures of a similar design she had done and she gave me an approximate ballpark estimate. I then paid a fee for CADs, which included two rounds of revisions. Then we exchanged CADs and feedback; there was a slip up on the first CAD where it was nothing like I expected lol, so actually I did 3 CADs because the miscommunication was not my fault. If I wanted more I would have paid another CAD fee. Then she told me the final price of the piece (which was more than the ballpark original estimate by about 25%; the end design did have more metal), I paid a 50% deposit, and it went into production. She sent pictures when it was done, I approved, paid remaining amount, and she shipped it. Design wise we texted and exchanged pictures and I sent design boards for revisions. She offered opinions and the design combined a shank and side stone orientation she had done before with a different basket style to accommodate a cabochon. This was where I learned to use drawings on CADs and design boards which helped a lot when I was trying (and initially failing) to explain the type of basket I wanted for the stone.




My experience with DK is the same as Alene in terms of payments and process. Design wise they provided the initial
CAD based on a design they had done before, which I inquired about. I then offered rounds of revisions until it ended up looking like I wanted. We did many CAD, I think it was about 10 in the end (though some were just super minor changes or adjusting for the actual stone dimensions; substantive CAD changes was probably 6). We didn’t have any design discussions per se, though I believe others have had such conversations with Amy if requested. I think his style works best if you are either very easy going and thus would be happy with the first or second CAD you get (many people would have been happy with the first CAD on my project) or you want a design they have done before OR you have a lot of experience communicating design and interpreting CADs and feel very confident. I was the latter by this point and found it a very smooth process. It would have been different if this was my first go around. I probably would have settled on the initial design, and probably would have been satisfied with the end product, but I definitely wouldn’t have the ring I have which includes some unique details that I love.



Overall I personally find custom ring design extremely stressful lol The middle design phase is hardest. You can think a design element is so obvious in your mind but I’ve been amazed every time how in fact someone else can see the same pictures as inspo and come to a completely different conclusions lol I had this experience with all three vendors. Also the experience of providing feedback for revisions and some elements being overlooked or executed in a weird way. In all thee cases I got at least one CAD where I said “what the heck?!?!” When I opened it because it looked so weird and I couldn’t believe they believed anyone would want that lol In all three there was a a point in the middle of the design phase where I wanted to throw in the towel and had to just tell myself to persist, one more round and we will get there! And we did. In all three cases I compromised on some details and elements I initially wanted or thought could be refined more because in the end it’s a collaboration and you need to accept influence and know when enough is enough. But it’s very hard. Not knowing what the end product will actually look like is hard too. I always begin by choosing a design inspiration from the vendors existing catalogue so we have a shared starting point. When providing inspo for details I also choose from their catalogue. I find that makes it all easier. Not easy. But easier.

If I worked with Victor or Erika Winter or Cheyenne Weil I would be more hands off. I would just say “make me something beautiful in the family if these rings you have done before” and leave it at that. Of course, I don’t have the budget for them so that’s just a dream. I don’t think I could afford CVB these days either. I worked with her in 2019 and my ring cost the same then as my ring from DK cost today, but historically he has been about 20% less than her. Victor and EW are about double DK or CVB. Yvonne cost less than my DK/CVB pieces by about 20% but the design was single-tone metal (two tone costs more) and she only works with her own stones and her designs are less labour intensive to finish because of the style (though I love my piece from her).

 

[EllieTO]

This is all so helpful, thank you!!

What prompted me to start the thread is my brief experience so far with the first vendor/designer/maker I approached (just to clarify up front, this would be cast, not hand forged). I showed inspirations (including from his catalog) and discussed what direction I wanted to go from there. He asked my budget, which was very hard for me to answer because I really don't know what's reasonable. I can see the cost of "stock" designs like from CvB or some VC, but I don't know how that relates to doing something similar that's custom or customized. So I gave the cost of a similar design and said I have flexibility and would like to know what would be reasonable for custom. He didn't answer my question, nor a few other questions I asked about pricing, so I'm left a little confused. I will have to see how the next interaction goes. He's supposed to get back to me with sketches before starting a CAD. I'm encouraged that you've had the experience with several vendors of getting an estimate up front.

I'm afraid this may be a challenge for my first custom ring. I haven't found anything stock or previously done that I want to replicate 100%. But I don't have an exact design in mind, I definitely need someone who can take the lead on design and technical advice.

 

[alene]

If you're in the US, DK can send you a shipping label.

Did not know this! I usually send my stones through express mail. I should ask him since I'm about to send a bunch of stones to him.

 

[lavenderdragonfly23]

I imagine it depends on the vendor but having worked on several projects with David, can speak specifically to my experience. I usually provide a pretty detailed description of what I want, with photos. He provides a quote that is the exact all-in price, including all the CADs. He does not ask for a deposit. We usually go through several versions of the CAD before finalizing it (3 for my current project, which is about average for me), then send my stones and the final product is ready in a few weeks. Once I approve it, I send the full payment and he sends the piece to me. Again, I suspect others may work differently.

This was exactly my experience with DK. With the exception of my stone was sent directly from the Yekutiel to DK.

Prior to shipping your stone…

#1: Insur, I used JM. Loose stone is covered during transport, setting, and return shipping.

#2: Have DK send you a shipping label

#3: Ship MONDAY overnight FedEx, drop at your local airport FedEx if you can. DO NOT SHIP OVER THE WEEKEND.
Box your stone, wrap in bubble wrap, box, then another box. Make sure not to note anywhere on the box that there is a diamond inside lol

#4: Say a prayer and breathe knowing you are covered worse case scenario

 

[Rfisher]

So I gave the cost of a similar design and said I have flexibility and would like to know what would be reasonable for custom.

I think this is fair.

He didn't answer my question, nor a few other questions I asked about pricing, so I'm left a little confused. I will have to see how the next interaction goes.

I think you might need to repeat your wish/need for a ballpark quote.
State you understand it’s ‘ballpark’ and will not hold it as cemented in until more details are hashed out. as I feel the vendor is not wanting to back himself into a quoted $ corner.
Pricing goes hand in hand with work labor. It’s worked on until it’s done. This might be not uncommon with some vendors. Especially ones that aren’t ’set up’ like other retail focused oriented vendors.
Part of this might be gauging how invested into the amount of time in design and labor to get into with this project, so expectations are equal in both sides. That’s fair I think, when thought of that way.

I will suggest (in a ballpark general way) pricing will be a bit north of CVB if similar designs. Their brand styles are not that similar. Both are by design.

I suggest one asks, after given a quote, to ask if there are any CAD fees included, and what those are, if not.

Cast in multiple parts, hand finished and hand assembled is an awesome way to go for certain designs (and common!) and absolutely shouldn’t be considered imo ’less than’ hand forged at all times.

 

[maryjane04]

This is all so helpful, thank you!!

What prompted me to start the thread is my brief experience so far with the first vendor/designer/maker I approached (just to clarify up front, this would be cast, not hand forged). I showed inspirations (including from his catalog) and discussed what direction I wanted to go from there. He asked my budget, which was very hard for me to answer because I really don't know what's reasonable. I can see the cost of "stock" designs like from CvB or some VC, but I don't know how that relates to doing something similar that's custom or customized. So I gave the cost of a similar design and said I have flexibility and would like to know what would be reasonable for custom. He didn't answer my question, nor a few other questions I asked about pricing, so I'm left a little confused. I will have to see how the next interaction goes. He's supposed to get back to me with sketches before starting a CAD. I'm encouraged that you've had the experience with several vendors of getting an estimate up front.

I'm afraid this may be a challenge for my first custom ring. I haven't found anything stock or previously done that I want to replicate 100%. But I don't have an exact design in mind, I definitely need someone who can take the lead on design and technical advice.

This sounds like Sako who doesn't quote up front regarding the work. For me I wouldn't be comfortable going into a project not knowing what the final cost would be. Also every change to a CAD would be extra.

 

[Dreamer_D]

This is all so helpful, thank you!!

What prompted me to start the thread is my brief experience so far with the first vendor/designer/maker I approached (just to clarify up front, this would be cast, not hand forged). I showed inspirations (including from his catalog) and discussed what direction I wanted to go from there. He asked my budget, which was very hard for me to answer because I really don't know what's reasonable. I can see the cost of "stock" designs like from CvB or some VC, but I don't know how that relates to doing something similar that's custom or customized. So I gave the cost of a similar design and said I have flexibility and would like to know what would be reasonable for custom. He didn't answer my question, nor a few other questions I asked about pricing, so I'm left a little confused. I will have to see how the next interaction goes. He's supposed to get back to me with sketches before starting a CAD. I'm encouraged that you've had the experience with several vendors of getting an estimate up front.

I'm afraid this may be a challenge for my first custom ring. I haven't found anything stock or previously done that I want to replicate 100%. But I don't have an exact design in mind, I definitely need someone who can take the lead on design and technical advice.

I would not personally work with a vendor who did not have good communication (not replying to questions) or would not give a complete quote up front or at least an estimate of the range of costs. That may exclude some vendors who prefer to work with clients who do not care about pricing because money is no object. I assume you heave searched this vendor's name and read all the experiences with them?

 

[Rfisher]

For me I wouldn't be comfortable going into a project not knowing what the final cost would be

But what if you agree to pay the mystery final cost, because you are offered the promise of a mystery discount on a future possible project?
How does one know what that discount ever was on a project you’ll never know the original price on?

 

[Dreamer_D]

But what if you agree to pay the mystery final cost, because you are offered the promise of a mystery discount on a future possible project?
How does one know what that discount ever was on a project you’ll never know the original price on?

Nope.

There's a shop my kids like to buy clothing at. Eveything has a price tag but its not the real price tag because there are all these "deals" see. Buy two pants get two "free" t-shirts. Buy one get one half off. I hate it lol. Just tell me the price!

 

[tyty333]

I will suggest (in a ballpark general way) pricing will be a bit north of CVB if similar designs. Their brand styles are not that similar. Both are by design.

Who are we talking about? Did I miss it?

 

[EllieTO]

Who are we talking about? Did I miss it?

Yeah I'm wondering too. I haven't said who I'm in discussions with.

 

[lavenderdragonfly23]

I think honestly it’s important to pick who’s going to do your setting based on what style you are looking for… it’s it a setting that jeweler specializes in/enjoys? If not, proceed to the next. The end result is what is most important- LOVING your ring.

DK can do almost anything, is priced very well and has a fairly quick turn around. One if not the best communicators… now, remember, these are jewelers, most of them are great at their trade, not so great at communicating… so keep an open mind. He will hold your hand the most.

Now, if it were Georgian style, old Peruzzi /table cut, hand fabricated… replica or refurbishing an antique piece…. SAKO, all the way. But….. do not expect to have your hand held. Be specific as to what you want, but give him some free rein and let him do his thing. He’s an artist and artists don’t play well being micromanaged… make sense? Lol! Sako will be more expensive than DK…. His pieces are hand forged… takes more time and a diffferent level of skill to master.

Delicate, perfectionist, edwardian with a modern nod… if you have your stone, Erika Winters. If you don’t… Erika Winters or VC. Both EW and VC will be more than DK, somewhat close to Sako, Sako will still be slightly higher.

I spoke to all of these jewelers. I wouldn’t hesitate to work with any of them… Sako is great- just be ok with waiting sometimes a week to hear back. I hope to someday work with him as I absolutely admire his skill and think it would be incredible to own one of this pieces… in the end I went with DK because I wanted hand forged, and my hand held through the process. I was completely tapped out and exhausted from stress between working 2 years of OT and trying to find my stone and the stress of having to wait to see her in person and worrying someone was going to buy her in the interim… I needed low stress, trust and ease of communication.

…. And side note, if you want claw prongs, Erika Winters all day every day. She has seriously perfected them.

 

[EllieTO]

I would not personally work with a vendor who did not have good communication (not replying to questions) or would not give a complete quote up front or at least an estimate of the range of costs. That may exclude some vendors who prefer to work with clients who do not care about pricing because money is no object. I assume you heave searched this vendor's name and read all the experiences with them?

Unfortunately I don't have a money tree, but I'm willing to pay what is reasonable for quality. I will see if I can get some kind of estimate, otherwise I might have to look for another vendor. I don't think this setting (for Summer Dream) would be a candidate for DK and I'm not sure I want to roll the dice with CvB, unless I just buy the stock Cora.

I might go to DK for Maxine, I think he could do the two rough ideas I have in mind, but I'm too far from pulling the trigger on that one.

 

[EllieTO]

I think honestly it’s important to pick who’s going to do your setting based on what style you are looking for… it’s it a setting that jeweler specializes in/enjoys? If not, proceed to the next. The end result is what is most important- LOVING your ring.

DK can do almost anything, is priced very well and has a fairly quick turn around. One if not the best communicators… now, remember, these are jewelers, most of them are great at their trade, not so great at communicating… so keep an open mind. He will hold your hand the most.

Now, if it were Georgian style, old Peruzzi /table cut, hand fabricated… replica or refurbishing an antique piece…. SAKO, all the way. But….. do not expect to have your hand held. Be specific as to what you want, but give him some free rein and let him do his thing. He’s an artist and artists don’t play well being micromanaged… make sense? Lol!

Delicate, perfectionist, edwardian with a modern nod… if you have your stone, Erika Winters. If you don’t… Erika Winters or VC.

I spoke to all of these jewelers. I wouldn’t hesitate to work with any of them… Sako is great- just be ok with waiting sometimes a week to hear back. I hope to someday work with him as I absolutely admire his skill and think it would be incredible to own one of this pieces… in the end I went with DK because I wanted hand forged, and my hand held through the process. I was completely tapped out and exhausted from stress between working 2 years of OT and trying to find my stone and the stress of having to wait to see her in person and worrying someone was going to buy her in the interim… I needed low stress, trust and ease of communication.

…. And side note, if you want claw prongs, Erika Winters all day every day. She has seriously perfected them.

This is all super helpful, thanks. Just one question ... DK and hand forged? Typo?

 

[lavenderdragonfly23]

This is all super helpful, thanks. Just one question ... DK and hand forged? Typo?

Huh? Sorry, I’m coming off a 12 hr shift and my brain isn’t functioning… I probably typed something wrong lol…

DK can do hand forged and casting with cad. I had DK use his master bench to hand forge Flora…. I’m not sure who exactly did my ring, it could have been Sako lol … I know CVB uses Sako.

I should ask him… I may need to take a nap as I can’t tell if I’m even making sense or rambling lol

 

[EllieTO]

Huh? Sorry, I’m coming off a 12 hr shift and my brain isn’t functioning… I probably typed something wrong lol…

DK can do hand forged and casting with cad. I had DK use his master bench to hand forge Flora…. I’m not sure who exactly did my ring, it could have been Sako lol … I know CVB uses Sako.

I should ask him… I may need to take a nap as I can’t tell if I’m even making sense or rambling lol

Oh, I didn't realize DK had a bench that did hand forging! Thank you.

 

[lavenderdragonfly23]

Oh, I didn't realize DK had a bench that did hand forging! Thank you.

Ahhh…. Yes! He does

Erika Winters, Sako both do their own hand forge work, DK and CVB use a master bench for it. If that’s the route you want to go. If your after a piece that looks old and value the old methods, than this is your path. If you want perfection and want to micromanage (which is totally fine if you do, no judging lol) … then you probably want to cast it. If you want both perfection and hand forged work… VC and EW … I will say, Flora is pretty perfect. I wouldn’t change a thing

 

[Rfisher]

Yeah I'm wondering too. I haven't said who I'm in discussions with.

I’m sorry. I assumed and jumped in and replied as if it was.
I can request all to be deleted if you wish - that may be a good option, considering. Yes. I will do that.


I do want to add -
While Sako/cicada may be a bench still/was for DKJ, that doesn’t mean one will get a cicada or OMJ type piece thru DKJ. I was told by a designer that he has ‘a crew’ that those/some pieces are done by.

I also do think hand forged has been told to me from the DKJ team, but they must mean hand crafted/hand finished/hand assembled from cast. I am thinking of a two toned band piece I have where both cost and time turnaround for production leads to believe cast/hand finished hand assembled more likely, not forged as stated it was.

I’m not aware of which Sako pieces are hand forged. I’d like to see the ones that are.

All this to also say - nothing is absolute one truth for all and all the same. Experiences will differ. I’m not going to dispute someone else’s claim.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Ahhh…. Yes! He does

Erika Winters, Sako both do their own hand forge work, DK and CVB use a master bench for it. If that’s the route you want to go. If your after a piece that looks old and value the old methods, than this is your path. If you want perfection and want to micromanage (which is totally fine if you do, no judging lol) … then you probably want to cast it. If you want both perfection and hand forged work… VC and EW … I will say, Flora is pretty perfect. I wouldn’t change a thing

I think there are other considerations about which method to choose other than level of control Some methods are better suited to some designs and like @Rfisher said above, cast and hand assembled and hand finished can be better for some designs and it not automatically "lessor".

 

[Dreamer_D]

Sako will be more expensive than DK…. His pieces are hand forged… takes more time and a diffferent level of skill to master.

Many of Sako's pieces are cast in pieces and hand assembled and finished. This is different than hand forging where the pieces are carved/shaped by hand from chunks of metal.

 

[lavenderdragonfly23]

I think there are other considerations about which method to choose other than level of control Some methods are better suited to some designs and like @Rfisher said above, cast and hand assembled and hand finished can be better for some designs and it not automatically "lessor".

Oh for sure! One is definitely not better than the other, it just depends on what you want in the end and if that particular style is achievable with that method. One is also significantly more expensive than the other option so that should be taken into consideration also lol!

 

[Dreamer_D]

I’m sorry. I assumed and jumped in and replied as if it was.
I can request all to be deleted if you wish - that may be a good option, considering. Yes. I will do that.

Its up to you obviously but I don't see why you would delete when the correction has been made and the thread asked about experiences with many vendors. Your posts offer that information.

 

[EllieTO]

I agree, no need to delete anything @Rfisher . There's just one minor comment in that post, and the rest is really helpful.

I just didn't want to say who I'm in discussions with because I don't want anything I say to reflect badly on anyone. I'm still learning, and I would hate to make unfair comments due to a misunderstanding or my inexperience.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Another vendor that hasn't been mentioned in Single Stone. not sure if they work with outside stones.