When does life begin? I say it doesn't.

[kenny]

When Does Life Begin? (Published 2023)

The question is at the heart of the human experience — and the nation’s abortion debate. An exploration through science, theology and philosophy.

www.nytimes.com

Life doesn't begin.
It can't.
It can only continue.

The sperm and the egg were not dead before they met.
They were both fully alive before, and of course after, they combined.
They were both equally alive before, and of course after, they combined.

That makes each of us literally the continuation of the life of our mom and the life of our dad.
That is what happened, physically.
The idea that I am a fully separate person, and not a confutation of mom and dad, is merely a handy construct.

I don't understand how this is even a controversy in the abortion debate.

Penny for your thoughts.

 

[pearlsngems]

An interesting point of view!

I think maybe when we talk about when life begins we are really referring to the start of the existence of a new individual being. It seems to me that that happens when the egg is fertilized, as it is then given a new designation: an embryo. It's a new living thing that begins to grow.

But pregnancy is not considered to have begun until the embryo has implanted in the uterus.

And the definition of personhood, with all its legal protections, is a separate thing again.

It's certainly complicated.

I'm afraid this topic may go away soon as being controversial.

 

[missy]

Life begins when the fetus can survive outside of the mother's womb.
Most medical professionals judge a fetus viable to survive outside the uterus, at about 24 weeks of gestation. And IMO, that is when life begins.
And not before.
IMO.

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

Life begins at the moment of conception. There is no doubt in my mind and from what has been observed at procedures, it's obvious.

 

[Calliecake]

Have you ever had infertility issues @Sunrises Sunsets? S

Life begins at the moment of conception. There is no doubt in my mind and from what has been observed at procedures, it's obvious.

Have you ever had infertility issues @Sunrises Sunsets?

 

[yssie]

Life begins when the fetus can survive outside of the mother's womb.
Most medical professionals judge a fetus viable to survive outside the uterus, at about 24 weeks of gestation. And IMO, that is when life begins.
And not before.
IMO.

This. And thank you Missy.

 

[kenny]

I'm not talking about the abortion debate.
I'm 100% pro choice.

I'm looking at how the phrase, "Live begins at" makes no sense.
Sperms and eggs are not dead.

The debate/language should be, "when does personhood begin for the life that was always there?"

I apologize for inadvertently causing hurt.

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

Have you ever had infertility issues @Sunrises Sunsets? S

Have you ever had infertility issues @Sunrises Sunsets?

There are many infertility issues in our extended family, two couples required in vitro-fertilization for their only child. Infertility includes years of waiting, wishing, heartbreak and a lot of cash.

 

[yssie]

@Sunrises Sunsets I deleted my post because upon reread I realized I might have read far too much into what you wrote. I’m sorry for that. Topics like this raise my hackles by default and I’m afraid in this instance I didn’t catch myself in time.

I don’t agree with your definition but I also don’t take offense to it.

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

@Sunrises Sunsets I deleted my post because upon reread I realized I might have read far too much into what you wrote. I’m sorry for that. Topics like this raise my hackles by default and I’m afraid in this instance I didn’t catch myself in time.

I don’t agree with your definition but I also don’t take offense to it.

In respect to your decision, I will delete my response.

 

[Madam Bijoux]

Interesting NYT article about this topic:

When Does Life Begin? (Published 2023)

The question is at the heart of the human experience — and the nation’s abortion debate. An exploration through science, theology and philosophy.

www.nytimes.com

OOPS: My apologies, Kenny - I see that you already posted the NYT link.
I think personhood begins to develop at the first moment of awareness or cognition (that is, the use of the senses and how the person reacts to them).

 

[kenny]

Interesting NYT article about this topic:

When Does Life Begin? (Published 2023)

The question is at the heart of the human experience — and the nation’s abortion debate. An exploration through science, theology and philosophy.

www.nytimes.com

I already posted that link in my opening post.

Reading that article got me thinking about what ended up as my new sigline , "Life does not have a beginning, only an end."

 

[Gloria27]

I already posted that link in my opening post.

Reading that article got me thinking about what ended up as my new sigline , "Life does not have a beginning, only an end."

Kenny you sound like an AI )))

1.Imagine if a future AI robot could (hypothetically) decide you (well not you, people) are still alive even if he "reconfigures" you, because technically your cells are still alive, for a while...scary thought, right?
2.Don't you think you have your own consciousness separate from your mum and dad? (this is related to your first post)

Disclaimer: I have no opinion on the abortion topic, I'm curious about Kenny's way of thinking

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

Interesting NYT article about this topic:

When Does Life Begin? (Published 2023)

The question is at the heart of the human experience — and the nation’s abortion debate. An exploration through science, theology and philosophy.

www.nytimes.com

OOPS: My apologies, Kenny - I see that you already posted the NYT link.
I think personhood begins to develop at the first moment of awareness or cognition (that is, the use of the senses and how the person reacts to them).

Parts of the somatosensory system start to form only a few weeks after conception, that scientists are able to determine.

 

[kenny]

Kenny you sound like an AI )))

1.Imagine if a future AI robot could (hypothetically) decide you (well not you, people) are still alive even if he "reconfigures" you, because technically your cells are still alive, for a while...scary thought, right?
2.Don't you think you have your own consciousness separate from your mum and dad? (this is related to your first post)

Disclaimer: I have no opinion on the abortion topic, I'm curious about Kenny's way of thinking

I perceive myself as a new person, separate from my parents, but nothing more than the newest link in a connected chain of continuous life.
Life did not "begin" with each link, it just continued on.
The former link was my parents, then grandparents, then a zillion ancestors, then the life forms that preceded humans in the evolutionary chain.

I find this connectedness much more reasonable than the invented 100% separateness that is so widely accepted.

You asked for Kenny's way of thinking; there it is.
... and may we all be encouraged (not discouraged) to think for ourselves.

Again, this thinking is not to suggest anything regarding the abortion debate.

 

[Gloria27]

I perceive myself as a new person, separate from my parents, but nothing more than the newest link in a connected chain of continuous life.
The former link was my parents, then grandparents, then a zillion ancestors, then the life forms that preceded humans in the evolutionary chain.

I find this connectedness much more reasonable than the invented 100% separateness that is so widely accepted.

You asked for Kenny's way of thinking; there it is.
... and may we all be encouraged (not discouraged) to think for ourselves.

Thinking for myself, yup, that's how I like to live.

I too believe in connectedness (with other people, the environment /nature).

I noticed you avoid the word consciousness thus I assume "breath of life", soul, spirit are too much so I won't even go there.

 

[kenny]

Thinking for myself, yup, that's how I like to live.

I too believe in connectedness (with other people, the environment /nature).

I noticed you avoid the word consciousness thus I assume "breath of life", soul, spirit are too much so I won't even go there.

I didn't "avoid" the word consciousness.
I wrote, "I perceive myself as a new person, separate from my parents."

A new person separate from my parents includes consciousness, and a trillion other things.

"breath of life", soul, spirit?
I know of no evidence proving the existence of these.
I see them as merely nice, warm & fluffy terms ade up and agreed with ideas that fill a need some people have, much like all the religions that humans have invented throughout time.

I'm satisfied with what we know for sure, and some questions being unanswerable.
Sometimes, "I don't know" can be the wisest thing a person can say.

 

[pearlsngems]

I'm pro-choice too. Even though I view life as beginning at conception, IMO it does not follow that the embryo must be deemed to have personhood right from the get-go; that is a cultural and legal determination, not a scientific one. One can readily see that there are differences in how different groups see this. Consensus is probably not possible.

 

[kenny]

Scientists suggest life began, literally, billions of years ago.

 

[Gloria27]

I didn't "avoid" the word consciousness.
I wrote, "I perceive myself as a new person, separate from my parents."

A new person separate from my parents includes consciousness, and a trillion other things.

"breath of life", soul, spirit?
I know of no evidence proving the existence of these.
I see them as merely nice, warm & fluffy terms ade up and agreed with ideas that fill a need some people have, much like all the religions that humans have invented throughout time.

I'm satisfied with what we know for sure, and some questions being unanswerable.
Sometimes, "I don't know" can be the wisest thing a person can say.

Well, art and those "fluffy terms" we invented are both part of what makes us humans and they separate us from animals.
If we as humans hold nothing sacred, then anything is permitted and we become monsters.

 

[kenny]

I don't even know where to begin.

Oh I know ...

 

[Gloria27]

I don't even know where to begin.

Oh I know ...

Breathe in and remember we are not discussing abortions and women's rights.
We are just philosophising like normal humans, broad terms, just setting some basics.

 

[kenny]

I don't even know where to begin.

Oh I know ...

See above.
Lather Rinse Repeat

 

[Gloria27]

See above.
Lather Rinse Repeat

Ok, I'll let you be.
Just let me know if you've watched Altered Carbon, ever. It's worth it, touches some interesting subjects.

 

[kenny]

Nope, I've not seen it.

I scanned its article Wiki's.
Looks like science fiction entertainment, which usually doesn't interest me though I did appreciate 2001.
I mostly go for documentaries on science, history, and nature, indie and foreign films, and content from Britain, with subtitles.

 

[Gloria27]

Nope, I've not seen it.

I scanned its article Wiki's.
Looks like science fiction entertainment, which usually doesn't interest me though I did appreciate 2001.
I mostly go for documentaries on science, history, and nature, indie and foreign films, and content from Britain, with subtitles.

Too bad, it's very good food for thought (makes you think about the meaning of human life and maybe stuff you never would have thought about by yourself) besides being a good series. Fictional or not, storytelling is a major part of humanity and human history, you know.

Some content from Britain ahead of its time: Monty Python!

Ok, this is my last post on this topic, please carry on.

P.S. I've edited my post to show your edited response not the old one