When will crown & pavilion angles hit the big db here?

[Regular Guy]

Though this is mostly for Leonid, probably many would also like to know? If you have nothing to do with it, surely you know or can guess (?) if and when the machinery for capturing more than table & depth alone will be churning to a halt, and now including the more robust data also now available with, I suppose, most certificates, as these now populate contemporary GIA certs?

Currently, whereas GOG had mostly carved out the presentation of these virtual stones on the search by cut db, now James Allen has all but taken over that job, and has partnered with you to do it nicely. Going to the quick search, though, and spending just a couple of minutes sifting for certificates buried within, I was having no luck. Data mining shouldn''t continue to be such hard work.

Surely, though, the flood gates are just about to open, right?

Or, are vendor pricing models at stake here? What actual tasks will need to be adopted by whom to make this change of presentation available.

Symms to me, educated consumers want to know!

Warm regards,

 

[Carlotta]

Ira, I''m confused....on the db, it states that only diamonds with known angles/girdles, etc. are included..........are you talking about info on the vendor''s websites???

If so, I can NEVER get that info. (certs) to be shown on my computer screen from James Allen, so I no longer even try to look at his stones.....maybe it''s just me or my computer(skills), but it is so friustrating that I have given up completely.....

 

[pricescope]

Not yet, RG. There are still plenty of old GIA certs on the market and the data coming from trading networks do not contain columns for crown and pavilion.

Some diamond listings, however, now have GIA or AGS cut grade listed...

 

[Regular Guy]

"Some diamond listings, however, now have GIA or AGS cut grade listed... "

So, might we see these first?

Also, Carlotta...

Date: 7/27/2006 7:43:13 AM
Author: Carlotta

If so, I can NEVER get that info. (certs) to be shown on my computer screen from James Allen, so I no longer even try to look at his stones.....maybe it's just me or my computer(skills), but it is so friustrating that I have given up completely.....

Go to the search by cut data db, just accept the defaults presented and hit: go. The first option is from James Allen, showing an HCA of 2.3 derived from crown & pavilion angles of 34.5 & 40.8, click on the link to bring up JA website, go to the cert, and see the cert showing those same C&A angles. Vwaala.

Problems?

 

[Carlotta]

Date: 7/27/2006 8:25:47 AM
Author: Regular Guy
''Some diamond listings, however, now have GIA or AGS cut grade listed... ''

So, might we see these first?

Also, Carlotta...

Date: 7/27/2006 7:43:13 AM
Author: Carlotta

If so, I can NEVER get that info. (certs) to be shown on my computer screen from James Allen, so I no longer even try to look at his stones.....maybe it''s just me or my computer(skills), but it is so friustrating that I have given up completely.....

Go to the search by cut data db, just accept the defaults presented and hit: go. The first option is from James Allen, showing an HCA of 2.3 derived from crown & pavilion angles of 34.5 & 40.8, click on the link to bring up JA website, go to the cert, and see the cert showing those same C&A angles. Vwaala.

Problems?

Yes...I can never get enough of the cert to show on my screen.......

 

[Carlotta]

Date: 7/27/2006 7:44:28 AM
Author: Pricescope
Not yet, RG. There are still plenty of old GIA certs on the market and the data coming from trading networks do not contain columns for crown and pavilion.

Some diamond listings, however, now have GIA or AGS cut grade listed...

Edited to add:

PS...you''re good....glad you got this w/out any problems....I must not be awake yet!!

 

[pricescope]

Date: 7/27/2006 8:25:47 AM
Author: Regular Guy
''Some diamond listings, however, now have GIA or AGS cut grade listed... ''

So, might we see these first?

We should work on this. It will require all the vendors starting providing this info in their data feeds to pricescope.

 

[Regular Guy]

Carlotta,

Got it yet? Once you get to the cert, don''t only scroll down, but also, across, and read from the angles presented on the graphic of the diamond itself.

Also, Leonid, thanks...

Date: 7/27/2006 9:08:43 AM
Author: Pricescope

Date: 7/27/2006 8:25:47 AM
Author: Regular Guy
''Some diamond listings, however, now have GIA or AGS cut grade listed... ''

So, might we see these first?

We should work on this. It will require all the vendors starting providing this info in their data feeds to pricescope.

Based on finding a comfort level to make a recommendation, at least, knowing it is a new AGS0 is all I look for, trusting this more than the math on the C&A angles that might even not yield 0 - 2, but hearing enough here that AGS0 trumps this.

If I saw it was GIA excellent, shopping, and competitive, I''d certainly be motivated to inquire further with the dealer, who probably could reliably learn more about the proportions.

The info certainly could make a value added difference.

Regards,

 

[pricescope]

Date: 7/27/2006 9:17:01 AM
Author: Regular Guy

Based on finding a comfort level to make a recommendation, at least, knowing it is a new AGS0 is all I look for, trusting this more than the math on the C&A angles that might even not yield 0 - 2, but hearing enough here that AGS0 trumps this.

If I saw it was GIA excellent, shopping, and competitive, I''d certainly be motivated to inquire further with the dealer, who probably could reliably learn more about the proportions.

Understand and agree. Not trying to sound difficult just knowing the conservatism of some dealers I can imagine that it will not happen fast.

E.g. Blue Nile has their own cut grading ranking in place. If you specify Ideal Cut in BN search you still can get GIA graded diamonds with the old certs and unknown crown and pavilion angles.

Anyway, I''m going to write to all vendors asking whether they can add new GIA and AGS cut grades to existing feeds.

 

[JulieN]

It''s a good idea if you''re looking for BICs or FICs, but I think not too much use if looking for TIC?

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 7/27/2006 9:55:59 AM
Author: JulieN
It''s a good idea if you''re looking for BICs or FICs, but I think not too much use if looking for TIC?

Julie, why?

Also, Leonid, understand what you''re saying about BN. Actually, don''t virtually all vendors with virtual options (WF, JA, others) still also use perhaps a table/depth old formula for representing ideal? To the extent that truth finds it''s own way (really, you''ve already done enough to establish this, haven''t you) this can only help secure Pricescope as a more accurate read on this sort of info.

 

[JulieN]

because when you search by cut, they're all TICs. Or T-ish. and I can usually find something that fits the bill in the search by cut.

 

[pricescope]

Date: 7/27/2006 10:11:33 AM
Author: Regular Guy

Also, Leonid, understand what you''re saying about BN. Actually, don''t virtually all vendors with virtual options (WF, JA, others) still also use perhaps a table/depth old formula for representing ideal? To the extent that truth finds it''s own way (really, you''ve already done enough to establish this, haven''t you) this can only help secure Pricescope as a more accurate read on this sort of info.

Actually, I just noticed that GOG already provides cut grades in their data feed. Emails with requests to other vendors are outgoing

 

[Regular Guy]

Julie says: "because when you search by cut, they''re all TICs. Or T-ish. and I can usually find something that fits the bill in the search by cut."

Ahhh...but look at the subject heading of this thread, and the idea/question...

Surely, though, the flood gates are just about to open, right?

You can''t see them all in one search execution, but I see less than 1500 diamonds available today in the search by cut. Even allowing maybe 1/2 are virtual, from JA (and he''s got some signature ones too!).

Purportedly there are upwards of 50,000 in the virtual db.

Of course, a buyer will only need one, I agree.

But, how many is enough to choose among?

 

[JulieN]

Well, every stone is listed 3-5 times. And you have to cut out all the fancies...

 

[Regular Guy]

Actually, Julie, thanks for the reminder...the nearly 1500 is just rounds, and not counting fancies...which can viably be included in the search by cut, especially because things like IS images can be included in that utility, which historically has been "in-house" options primarily.

But, where you say:

Date: 7/27/2006 10:43:06 AM
Author: JulieN
Well, every stone is listed 3-5 times. And you have to cut out all the fancies...

...I''m not sure I get the concern. That seeing a stone 3 - 5 times is not convenient?

It raises the question about whether 50, 000 is really 12,000, or if iterating it out is more like 200,000.

Mainly, having 3 - 5 listings means that a) a stone previously unidentified as having good qualities, can now be b) considered and c) because it''s listed 3 - 5 times, I certainly have my choice of vendors...not necessarily offering the lowest price (as I would pay gladly a bit more to have trusted eyes see it first), but competing for lowest price, certainly.

Without question, my options here increase, and my lowest price option is almost inevitably lower.

Leave the fancies alone, I say, and keep them in the db, what''s the problem with those?

Probably, the choice vendors here will remain so, albeit maybe having to work a bit harder to stay that way...thanks to the new info available on GIA certificates, largely.

 

[JulieN]

It''s just that CA/PA isn''t really relevant for fancies, since GIA doesn''t include it.