white sapphires good diamond subs?

[larussel03]

Hi Everyone,

This is my first post,

and I''ve been looking everywhere for an honest responce to this question:

Are white sapphires a good diamond substitute?

Let me explain my situation--My boyfriend and I are both recent college graduates and we live together in Boston. Needless to say, we are not rolling in dough. We would like to get engaged, and are considering using a white sapphire. It''s cheaper than moissanite, and I like the fact that its a "real" gemstore, rather than lab created. We are also thinking of using blue, but I''m a big fan of white stones in general, so I''d really like the center stone to be white, if possible.

So, I was wondering if white sapphires make good diamond substitutes, or are they glaringly obvious to everyone (the average person, not a diamond conniseur) that it''s not a diamond? I have no problem with honesty and saying "it''s a white sapphire" but I dont want people to look at it and immediately think its a CZ when it''s not.

Thanks!

Lyndsey

 

[colormyworld]

Hi Lyndsey. I am not an expert but IMO sapphire can be a convincing sub for diamond to the novice. It will not have the fire like diamond or CZ in bright sunlight or incandecent light though. Good luck Doug

 

[Richard M.]

I agree with Doug, but large white sapphires can be pricey. Another natural gem that''s softer than sapphire but looks really good -- better than sapphire IMO -- is white danburite.

See data here: Danburite and Here, to mention only a couple of suppliers.

Actually, the best diamond simulant so far is CZ. It has the right balance of refraction and dispersion to imitate diamond. Moissanite''s okay but it''s far too expensive IMO.

Richard M.

 

[rms]

Date: 10/22/2005 6:14:57 PM
Author: Richard M.
I agree with Doug, but large white sapphires can be pricey. Another natural gem that''s softer than sapphire but looks really good -- better than sapphire IMO -- is white danburite.

Richard M., No big concerns in your mind with the hardness of danburite being 7? Even for a ring that let''s say is NOT bezel set but just set in a standard 4 or 6 prong ring? If so, they look beautiful on that web site and I would entertain buying one, or 2, or 10!!

 

[Kaleigh]

Richard,
Thanks for the links. I had never heard of Danburite until tonight, wow!!

 

[larussel03]

Does anyone know where I can find a pic of a white sapphire set as a solitaire? I''m curious to see what it looks like...

 

[colormyworld]

Lyndsey, I don't think looking at a picture on a computer screen would help much. Another choice would be zircon But like danburite is not as hard as diamond or sapphire. Regards Doug

 

[larussel03]

Hi,

Thanks for all the input!

Does danburite scratch easily?

 

[Richard M.]

Date: 10/22/2005 6:27:27 PM
Author: rms

For long-term daily wear sapphire certainly would be the best choice. I guess I had a mental lapse and was thinking in terms of an affordable stone that would be in use only until the budget allowed for a diamond. Maybe that''s not what larussel has in mind. Yet I see plenty of sapphires -- and diamonds, for that matter -- that show signs of wear or damage. "Durability" has a lot to do with the person who wears the ring.

Richard M.

 

[larussel03]

I do want to get a diamond eventually but I know I wont ever stop wearing the original engagement ring that I receive. I may go with sapphire then... : ) Plus, bf plans on going back to school for a PhD next year...affording the diamond I want will be a long ways away.

Thanks!

 

[Richard M.]

For FYI and shopping comparison only, these stones are a bit over 1 ct. diamond size and the pair can be split up: White Sapphire Pair From the image the cutting looks pretty good. I think they have a good return policy.

 

[larussel03]

Wow, thank you so much for your help! They''re beautiful!

 

[Kaleigh]

I think a nice white sapphire will be a good choice for an ering. It''s a 9 on the mohs scale of hardness. Please post pics when you get it. Good luck in your search!!

 

[makemepretty]

I bought a 2 ct round white sapphire ring off of HSN. In person, it does not look like a diamond. It just doesn''t have that ''sparkle''. Maybe consider a nice gemstone ring as an engagment ring instead.

 

[maxspinel]

Sapphire''s properties (dispersion/refraction and etc.) are very different from diamonds. It lacks the sparkle, fire and brillance especially in the rounds. Before CZ, people likes to use Zircon as a diamond imitation. Zircon has hardness of ~ 7, but it is brittle and easily scratched.

Many people also tried to use yellow sapphires to imitate fancy yellows diamonds. You can spot them easily in the round brilliants. However, I see some Emerald cut yellow sapphires that are fairly convincing. They were set with smaller emerald cut white side sapphires and they look pretty good as engagement ring. Instead of just looking for rounds, may be you should check out the emerald cut or other fancy cuts.

 

[glitterata]

Also, if this is a ring you''re planning to wear forever, white sapphire might not be the best choice. Sapphire is quite hard, but it does get scratched over time, and because it''s a colorless, transparent stone, the scratches will eventually make it look hazy or even opaque.

If I were you and I wanted an affordable engagement ring with a natural stone in it that I planned never to replace, I would choose a small diamond or a hardy colored stone, maybe a blue, yellow, or pink sapphire. Or perhaps an eternity band of little diamonds or blue sapphires.

 

[bar01]

Date: 10/23/2005 2:13:38 PM
Author: glitterata



If I were you and I wanted an affordable engagement ring with a natural stone in it that I planned never to replace, I would choose a small diamond or a hardy colored stone, maybe a blue, yellow, or pink sapphire. Or perhaps an eternity band of little diamonds or blue sapphires.

Thats my thought too - if you are thinking sapphires - go with color!

 

[Dis]

I had read in a number of publications about white sapphire. Always it was compared unfavourably with diamond. A couple years ago I obtained one in a ring. I found I liked it very much. It''s a very bright stone, quite blinding out under the sun but it does look different than diamond. The stone I have is very very white. White sapphire is a stone to be appreciated for it''s own merits. I suggest looking in jewelry stores for white sapphires and taking a look at it and judging for yourself.

I have worn sapphire and ruby rings for years. I mean 24 hours a day. They have worn quite well for me. As for cloudiness I found soap and dirt to be the culprits: They have always cleaned up very well for me.

If you have your heart set on a white stone, white sapphire is a very good choice. If you want to wear one for the rest of your life, I suggest a good sturdy setting that shelters the stone and not a tiffany type that gets hung up in your pockets or banged when you put clothes in the washer.

 

[valeria101]

This is something that colorless gems can do, but diamond cannot - concave faceting.

If you like them, IMO you'd end up with a dazzling, unusual look that would never invite unflattering comparison with diamonds. Quite on the contrary

Here's a sample:

This is colorless zircon. I am pretty sure there was a white sapphire cut like this posted on this forum earlier on.

If you worry about how these stones might wear, a lower setting might be all it takes. What do you have in mind ?

 

[mari2]

Date: 10/22/2005 10:28:35 PM
Author: Richard M.

For FYI and shopping comparison only, these stones are a bit over 1 ct. diamond size and the pair can be split up: White Sapphire Pair From the image the cutting looks pretty good. I think they have a good return policy.

Hi, this is my first post! I lost a diamond ring

, and I purchased a white sapphire round, brilliant from the website you referred to in your post. I am very satisfied. I, too, wanted a diamond sim (a real gemstone as opposed to a CZ). So, I went with the white sapphire. My birthstone is sapphire, so it seemed a good fit. I plan to get it set in white gold as a solitare. The other comments regarding a lower setting for this type of stone were helpful. It is very white and sparkly, but does not look like a diamond. Maybe some people will think so, but I will be proud to say it is a white sapphire. CZ sometimes seems to get a bad rap, even though they can be very beautiful. Also, I like the hardness of sapphire (9 on Mohs). I can't wait to get is set. BTW, I received this stone less than 48 hours after I ordered it. Mari

 

[movie zombie]

hello, mari2! i hope you post a picture of your white sapphire soon! and then again when you have it set!

peace, movie zombie

 

[Lightbender]

Hi !

I''d like to offer my opinion, as a cutter, on whether colorless sapphire is a "good" diamond substitute.
If you mean "Will it look like a diamond?", I''m afraid the answer is no.
The optical properties of corundum and diamond are quite different, so no matter how the sapphire is cut, it won''t look like diamond. The dispersion of sapphire (breakup of white light into those pretty spectral colors) is very weak in sapphire compared to diamond, so you won''t see any dispersion. Also, diamond has a characteristic adamantine luster, much different from corundum, so the reflections do not appear as "hard" if that makes sense.
I don''t see luster spoken of much, but it has a strong effect on the visual appearance of a polished stone.
Also, the refractive index of corundum is quite a bit lower than diamond, so the light in a sapphire is not "bent" as much as it refracts around in the stone, with the end result that the sapphire simply doesn''t appear as bright as diamond.
That''s not to say that colorless sapphire is not beautiful in its own right (when cut to proper angles). I recently finished a 9 carat colorless sapphire in a Square Barion cut for a customer and the light "fountains" beautifully in that stone. But you would not ever mistake it for a diamond.
Now, a well cut white zircon could be mistaken for a diamond, but ones over a caat o so start to look "fuzzy" because the double refraction of zircon gives a double image of the pavilion facets, just like synthetic Moisaanite (which has a decidedly greasy luster). Cubic zirconia is by far the best substitute, optically speaking, for diamond, but does not wear very well in a ring. Of course, it''s inexpensive and can be replaced easily, if you choose your mounting carefully.
That''s my ten cents worth.
Enjoy your quest, all of natur''e''s crystals are beautiful objects.

Lightbender

 

[Richard M.]

Did you read the whole thread? I believe many of us who responded know everything you posted. But the original question was:

"I was wondering if white sapphires make good diamond substitutes, or are they glaringly obvious to everyone (the average person, not a diamond conniseur) that it''s not a diamond? I have no problem with honesty and saying "it''s a white sapphire" but I dont want people to look at it and immediately think its a CZ when it''s not."

As a cutter myself I know that most "average" people don''t distinguish between white optical quartz and diamonds! Any correctly-faceted white stone (and some off-whites like yellow-tinted Oregon sunstone/labradorite) trigger the "What a beautiful diamond!" reflex. So a well-cut white sapphire, while not a high R.I. man-made ringer like CZ, moissanite or YAG, seems to me a perfectly acceptable and not "glaringly obvious" natural gem alternative. That''s especially true since the poster said she had no problem telling people about the stone''s true identity.

 

[Lightbender]

Hmmmmm.
Well, I DID read the whole thread and saw only two very cursory mentions of "fire" and nothing about luster, so I thought I might be adding to someone''s store of info, that''s all. I certainly intended no offense.
And, as I said in closing, IMO, all of nature''s creations are beautiful objects in their own right, colorless sapphire included. I might add that I prefer many of the synthetics to diamond, but that certainly goes against the popular grain.
I re-read my post and did not find anything I thought was pejorative concerning colorless sapphire. Certainly there is nothing wrong with using one of the most popular gemstones in Asia in an engagement or a wedding ring. As you know, Richard, there are many beautiful cuts that can be performed in corundum, and some of them would make an original piece that would just sing! I''ll bet a 2-3 c stone in Jeff Graham''s "Radiant Antique" would be a drop-dead knockout, especially polished with 200k diamond on ceramic.
One of the first customers I had when I had my store could not afford a diamond and settled for a small thin band of gold for an engagement and wedding ring. These two were madly in love and it showed. He became quite successful in real estate, and on the occasion of their 20th anniversary returned to me to buy a four carat diamond for her, as a surprise. We designed a simple ring for her, as I knew that her tastes had remained simple. She brought the ring back and had it redesigned as a pendant, because she saw no need to "replace" that simple thin band of gold. You could not have pried it off her finger.
These things aren''t about gemology, they are about love and giving. And, as you say, there is absolutely nothing wrong with colorless sapphire.

Lightbender

 

[Richard M.]

Lightbender,

I wasn''t suggesting you wrote anything offensive or "pejorative." I simply didn''t think you responded to the question that was asked: would it be "glaringly obvious" to the "average person" a white sapphire isn''t a diamond? I don''t think it would be although most PriceScopers would know instantly. But they''re not average!

It was clear from her own words the lady prefers a natural stone. White zircon''s the only natural with sufficiently high R.I./dispersion to mimic diamond in those repects. I''ve worked on enough wear-worn ones to know they don''t hold up well in everyday use. Danburite''s a good candidate but is relatively soft and has no "fire" either. What else is there with respectable hardness and durability? Corundum. Even well-cut SRBs have good brilliance.

I''ve cut Graham''s Radiant Antique in tourmaline, light garnet and citrine and agree it''s a great performer. It would be a fine choice for natural white sapphire but good rough''s getting quite hard to find. BTW, buy any reasonably priced white topaz rough you may need NOW. My very good sources tell me the price will soon quadruple at least -- bad news for coated and diffusion-treated topaz fanciers. Of course rough demand for treatments is probably the reason for the increase.