Whiteflash.com - Bad Experience

[samhsu1978]

I was looking to order an EGL certified diamond from whiteflash.com. Their policy is that they''ll send the diamond after recieving payment and then send the original certificate after your 10 day trial period has expired. Unfortunately, the diamond was not laser enscribed and Whiteflash does not post a JPG of their certificates online.

So...here comes the bad experience. Once ordered, they send me a scanned copy of the certificate by email and none of the imperfections in the inclusion map showed up (it was a VS2). I told them I needed a clear map of the inclusions so that I can be sure that the diamond that I recieve is the diamond that I wanted, especially since this diamond wasn''t laser enscribed. So, they send me another scan...but again the inclusion map was clean.

The next time I called about this issue, the lady that answers hands the phone over to a man (maybe the manager, I''m not sure - he talked like he knew everything about the company) who decides to give me a lecture with an attitude, with the idea that I should have faith in the company and that scanning a certificate was like having your prostate prodded...

...if ordering the diamond from Whiteflash is a already a hassle, then what would happen if more serious issues arise (ie. lifetime upgrades, trade-ins, returns)? I''ve decided not to explore this option any further.

Cheers

 

[stumpy]

Maybe the little marks on the diagram just didn't make it through the scanning process, Maybe they could have mailed you a more legible copy. I doubt they were trying to "scam" you, but I now how you feel with a lot of $ on the line.

 

[fire&ice]

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On 11/18/2003 4:48:51 PM samhsu1978 wrote:

. Their policy is that they'll send the diamond after recieving payment and then send the original certificate after your 10 day trial period has expired. --

This is standard practice. Either they or their supplier would be crazy to relinquish the orginal cert. Perhaps getting a better copy sent w/ the stone would be a more prudent course in the future.

 

[diamondsbylauren]

In many cases dealers who submit stones to EGL USA get the diamond back as much as a week before the certificate comes in.




That's no excuse for a seller making a big deal about it. Maybe you caught someone on a bad day.......


Personally, I find no reason NOT to send the original report with the purchase. The buyer is going to be responsible for the diamond- that's more valuable than the report. If a supplier feels comfortable sending the diamond, why not the cert?

 

[hoorray]

I agree with David. I can't think of a legit reason to withhold the cert or at least a god copy of it unless they don't have it yet. Part of the eval process is matching the diamond to the cert.

 

[daboyzmomi]

Wow I am sorry to hear you are giving up on Whiteflash. I just recently purchased a new custom ring from them and was overwhelmed by how professional and nice to deal with they were. I am sure there has to be some kind of explanation, everyone has their good and their bad days. I myself have complete faith in the company and will be purchasing the matching band to my new bauble with confidence this time next year. I hope you are able to get the misunderstanding corrected. Good luck to you.

PS- All 5 of my original AGS certs were sent at time of delivery. Not quite sure what happen in your case, could it be the cert hadn't come in yet? Just a thought.

 

[aljdewey]

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On 11/18/2003 6:57:40 PM diamondsbylauren wrote:






Personally, I find no reason NOT to send the original report with the purchase. The buyer is going to be responsible for the diamond- that's more valuable than the report. If a supplier feels comfortable sending the diamond, why not the cert?


----------------

Really, David? That's funny, because I can think of an excellent reason not to send the original report up front.

Consumer buys diamond, vendor sends stone & report. Consumer decides for any number of reasons to return stone within the specified return policy window but neglects to return the report with the stone. (Most vendors don't stipulate that unreturned reports will result in a deduction of $100 from refund to replace grading report.) Vendor has received stone back and thus has to refund money, but now has no report for the next discriminating shopper. The vendor now has to 1) pay $100 or so for a new report, and 2) suspend the diamond from inventory during the period it's shipped to the lab.

I'd err on the side of caution, too, if I were the vendor and instead provide a copy of the report with the original to follow once the return window expires.

 

[fire&ice]

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On 11/18/2003 7:51:18 PM aljdewey wrote:

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On 11/18/2003 6:57:40 PM diamondsbylauren wrote:



Personally, I find no reason NOT to send the original report with the purchase. The buyer is going to be responsible for the diamond- that's more valuable than the report. If a supplier feels comfortable sending the diamond, why not the cert?

----------------

Really, David? That's funny, because I can think of an excellent reason not to send the original report up front.

Consumer buys diamond, vendor sends stone & report. Consumer decides for any number of reasons to return stone within the specified return policy window but neglects to return the report with the stone. Vendor has received stone back and thus has to refund money, but now has no report and has to pay for another report for the next potential customer for that stone.

I'd err on the side of caution, too, if I were the vendor and instead provide a copy of the report with the original to follow once the return window expires.
----------------

Yes, I am hoping David did not read that the person was in the *window* of opportunity to return. Sending the final cert to a person just viewing is not good business practice.

 

[ccuheartnurse]

It doesnt matter to me if the vendors have made it "standard practice" to send the original cert AFTER the inspection period or not. If the inspection period is to ensure that you indeed have the original stone you purchased, how are you to compare what the appraiser comes up with to the illegible fax or emailed copy of the cert you get from the vendor? If this is the case, either send the cert or lengthen the inspection period. Its risky enough buying online, despite that the vendors here have a trustworthy reputation.

Judy

 

[canadiangrrl]

We got our AGS DQD from Dirt Cheap Diamonds after the inspection period. It didn't bother me at all, because I had the diamond independently appraised. We had a copy of the cert in the meantime, and this was fine for us.

I can definitely see the logic in not issuing the original cert during the return window. Aljdewey's absolutely right.

 

[aljdewey]

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On 11/18/2003 8:10:05 PM canadiangrrl wrote:





Aljdewey's absolutely right.
----------------

Girl.....I GOTTA start paying you more! LOLOL

 

[Mikesgirl]

When I purchased from Blue Nile they sent the original certs (AGS and GCAL) and the statement that, if the diamond is returned without the cert, there would be a $250 fee to replace them. They have a 30 day return period, but won't ship unless it's paid for. It's interesting that there are so many policies.

 

[LesleyH]

OK – time for me to clarify our policy re: original certificates.

If we sell a diamond that is from our in house inventory, like our A CUT ABOVE’s, diamonds, diamonds from our in house expert selection or any other diamond we have in stock, the original certificate is sent with the diamond along with a verification from an independent appraiser. If we sell a diamond that is not in house, we sometimes ship the diamond with the original or we send the diamond out with a copy of the original certificate, along with a verification from an independent appraiser. In the latter instance, we send the original out after the customer has confirmed that he/she is keeping the diamond. There are a few reasons for this, but the main one is that a small number of suppliers will only send the original certificate out to us after the diamond is confirmed sold and is invoiced.

In the case of samhsu1978, he was considering purchasing an EGL certified diamond from a supplier that will not consider sending out original certificates unless the diamond is actually invoiced. There are many suppliers who would have been happy to, but it wasn’t the case this time. As with all stones that we do not own, we had the diamond shipped out to us first to be checked. We took photos of the diamond (see below), we SARINED the diamond and the numbers checked out. Our team of expert gemologists checked the stone out and discussed it with the customer at length. In order to try and help him out and calm his concerns, we finally got the supplier to ship out the original certificate to us, and we scanned it in color and e-mailed these images out to him.

When this customer was originally asked why he was considering buying a diamond from Whiteflash, he answered that he had read good things about the company right here on Pricescope. Samhsu1978, we’re sorry that you felt the need to write this type of post.

As with all our customers, we took all the time in the world to try and satisfy the customer’s needs. It appears that our approach and policies just did not work for this particular customer.

LesleyH
www.whiteflash.com

 

[samhsu1978]

Whew! I almost fell for it...

I always wondered how much time/resources internet companies invested in screening message boards. That's when I started to doubt the legitimacy of positive posts (not this site in particular, but just in general) and the lack of negative posts on threads that appear on the first few pages of a generic search (ie. "diamond message board") through Google. I'm sure other customers may feel differently, but I just don't feel comfortable buying from products AND services oriented companies that spend resources defending themselves on message boards. If a company has happy customers, the customers will find a way to spread the word. And the same is true for unhappy customers. Why does a company feel the need to regulate negative responses? It just doesn't appear professional.

I believe a reliable message board is one that has posts of customers only...where the reader determines the legitimacy of a complaint and compares the frequency of positive to negative threads. And then, on another note, I believe a company should listen to criticism and make adjustments (or not) accordingly, but has no place in commenting. I'm not saying a company can't comment, but that the message board then becomes unreliable and the company appears unprofessional.

 

[samhsu1978]

...so how many of the positive responses are written by employees? (maybe none, but we'll never know for sure)

The guy on the phone seemed awefully confident about reviews of whiteflash on the message boards. I wonder how many login ID's he has on this website. Hey, is that a wolf dressed up as a sheep over yonder?? hahahaha

 

[samhsu1978]

Oh, I know...how 'bout this...

If you were talking to your friend over dinner about how crappy your computer is. Does an agent from DELL suddenly run out from the kitchen to interrupt your conversation and say "NO! Our computer IS really good, it was just this particular customer that wasn't satisfied!". I don't think so...

...and if they did what would you think? I'll tell you what I would think...

What the (bad word)??!

...and then I'd never eat at that restaurant again. hahahaha

Hope all you REAL customers get this analogy.

 

[pricescope]

Samhsu1978, there are quite a few experts from the trade (vendors, appraisers and scientists) participate in this and other internet boards. Some of them are sponsors and some are not.

I think it is a good thing because it facilitates open discussion. Peopple can express their opinions, share information and experiece (positive or negative) as you just did.

I'm sorry you are not happy with the service you received. You have all the rights to express it. However, vendors also have rights to explain their side of the story.

I understand your concerns about quality of the posts here. In order to keep the quality of the content, this board is monitored in several ways to protect against abuses that you mentioned.

1. First of all, people have very kin sence of smell when sombody writes a fishy post.

2. You can always check posting history of any member and using your common sence conclude whether this poster is trustworthy.

3. I'm constantly checking IP addresses of the posters who post positive or negative experiences. Using special tools I check the city of the posters, their internet providers, etc.

4. We keep negative feedbacks about people shopping experience along with the positive. You probably noticed that your posts haven't been deleted

and it will remain in the archives for as long as this site exists. You can check Google in a month or two and see whether you post is indexed by Google and available for others who is checking information about Whiteflash.

In fact, internet companies put their reputaion literly online. If the srew, it becomes available to thousands or millions of piople.

 

[fire&ice]

The vendor has *every* right to voice *their* side of the story. The transaction did not happen in *your* very own vacuum.

Your first & only post the day you sign up is a negitive post about a vendor. I think you are a plant to uproot whiteflash's reputation.

Would it be proper to respond to my comments? Or do you think you do not have a right to defend yourself? If so, then my comments stand as is.

 

[strmrdr]

I have been buying stuff online for almost 10 years now and I have leaned a few things.

1> A vendor that responds to people on boards like this one are less likely to rip you off than other companies because they get it that word of fingers is what their business lives and dies by.
Boards like this can kill a small company and hurt a big one in short order if they rely on the net for sales and have a limited sales target.
The vendors that understand that are much better to deal with.

2> stuff happens - you will not find one company that doesn't have an unhappy customer once in a while. If someone tells you that they have never had an unhappy customer its time to hide the checkbook or credit card.

3> They should have taken the time to explain about the cert before you paid them. I would have been ticked also. You paid extra for a certed diamond over one without and to not recieve them together is bogus imho.
As explained that can not be helped sometimes but it should have been explained up front before accepting payment.
That way you could decide before hand if you were ok with it.
I would not be and would choose a different diamond.

4> The difference between a good company to deal with and one that is just so-so one is that next time they will clearly explain before accepting payment when they cant send them together.
That is something for whiteflash to consider.

 

[LesleyH]

Just reading this on the way out to work. Thanks for your comments fire&ice and for the clarification re: IP addresses of forum posters, leonid.

Just to clarify "They should have taken the time to explain about the cert before you paid them" - at this time we have received absolutely no payment from this customer and the cert situation was explained at length to the customer.

Good luck with your diamond purchase samhsu1978.

LesleyH
www.whiteflash.com

 

[aljdewey]

Samshu.....believe me, those of us *real* customers get where you are coming from exactly. If I didn't know better, I'd swear you were in the finance industry.....or related to someone who is.




Honest to God, I never realized how many paranoid conspiracy theorists there were in this world until I got here! I am continually amused by the people who come here, don't do all the homework up front, and consequently have an experience that deviates from the norm......and when that happens, the only conclusion their minds can settle on is: since my experience didn't go well......yeah, *everyone else must be lying*! Of course!......the only reason this board exists is to dupe everyone, and how magnificent you are to have exposed it! Sheesh.....there is just no sense of individual accountability anymore. You guys are all watching waaaaaay too much Dragnet.




That being said, Samshu.......perhaps this is not the venue for you. If you have no faith in the quality of the information provided here, why are you still contributing here?




Good luck on your purchase, wherever you make it.

 

[strmrdr]

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On 11/19/2003 9:35:13 AM LesleyH wrote:

Just reading this on the way out to work. Thanks for your comments fire&ice and for the clarification re: IP addresses of forum posters, leonid.

Just to clarify 'They should have taken the time to explain about the cert before you paid them' - at this time we have received absolutely no payment from this customer and the cert situation was explained at length to the customer.

Good luck with your diamond purchase samhsu1978.

LesleyH
www.whiteflash.com----------------

hmmmm thats a different story and not how his complaint reads to me.
If he hasnt bought it yet then whats the big hassle either He chooses one you can get the cert for to ship with the diamond or shop elsewhere.
If he hasnt paid for it he has no reason to expect the original cert.
Call me confused ....

 

[pelepup]

I'm a little confused too. I can understand why a vendor wouldn't send the original.

However, did the customer request a copy of the cert before he was to receive the diamond? Did he want to see the cert before buying the diamond? Why would the vendor send him a copy of the cert before he paid, especially if it was a hassle to get it from the vendor who had it? Why didn't they just tell him they would send a legible hard copy along with the diamond? Or if they did, why couldn't he wait until the package arrived?

Unfortunately, there are three sides, his side, their side and what really happened. Just like in the classic movie "Rashomon" by Kurosawa. You all should see that sometime. A great flick.

 

[pelepup]

I just re-read Lesley's post and now I think I understand. Apparently WF got the stone and after discussion, the customer was still hesitant at buying. So before customer paid, WF as a courtesy, emailed a copy of the cert to customer. Customer wasn't getting a clean scan. Customer unhappy, complains, WF unhappy and transaction unravels. Okay.

 

[mike04456]

Hmm, how did I miss this thread?

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On 11/19/2003 4:50:34 AM samhsu1978 wrote:





If you were talking to your friend over dinner about how crappy your computer is. Does an agent from DELL suddenly run out from the kitchen to interrupt your conversation and say 'NO! Our computer IS really good, it was just this particular customer that wasn't satisfied!'. I don't think so...

Hope all you REAL customers get this analogy.
----------------

Uh-uh. The analogy is faulty. A telephone call is a private communication, and the only way Dell could break into it is if they were tapping your phone line, which among other things is illegal.

PS is an open, public forum analogous to a street corner. The two are not remotely comparable.

Personally, I would not want to participate in a consumer forum that restricted participation in the way you suggest. Consumers are not always right--quite often they are wrong. I want all sides of the story, including that of the vendor. It's by weighing all sides that you get the best information and can make the best decisions.

 

[isthree00]

samhsu1978,

no offense but you come across as an immature consumer trying to inappropriately bash a company's reputation. are you sure you're ready to get married????

anyway, whiteflash has an excellent reputation. it sounds as if your experience wasn't up to your expectation possibly due to a misunderstanding and now you're trying to take WF down just because you don't agree with their policy.

i dealt with WF not too long ago and would GLADLY do business with them again. They were fantastic.

 

[Kay]

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On 11/21/2003 5:33:45 PM pelepup wrote:

I just re-read Lesley's post and now I think I understand. Apparently WF got the stone and after discussion, the customer was still hesitant at buying. So before customer paid, WF as a courtesy, emailed a copy of the cert to customer. Customer wasn't getting a clean scan. Customer unhappy, complains, WF unhappy and transaction unravels. Okay.----------------

That's how I read it too. It is unfortunate that there was such a bad breakdown in communications. The diamond for my e-ring came from Whiteflash, and I was very happy with their service, as well as the stone itself. Bob spent a lot of time searching the lists for new stones with the particulars specs I wanted. WF emailed me pics of the stone, sarin report and GIA cert. You can only expect so much from a scanned copy; it is more useful to have the person you are working with eyeball the stone for you and tell you about the inclusions. I'm sure WF would have sent a better copy or the original cert with the diamond if you ordered it -- mine came with the original.

 

[Kay]

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On 11/18/2003 4:48:51 PM samhsu1978 wrote:



scanning a certificate was like having your prostate prodded...

Okay, someone may have to explain this analogy to me.

 

[Mara]

I definitely agree that vendors should have an open forum such as this to voice their side of the story. There is always two, if not more sides to any story. Also, most of the vendors here know how to conduct themselves in a professional manner when questioned by a customer or prospective customer--Lesley responded in an appropriate manner in my opinion. She wanted to set the record straight from her perspective.




Oh and for the record I haven't purchased from WF...but I have corresponded with them a few times regarding a few potential purchases. Don't work for them...Leo can attest to this!

Secondly, on the cert mailed with the stone thing, we had the same thing happen to us that Lesley noted. When you buy a stone from a vendor, if its a virual stone that had to be called in so that a customer could look at it (or so they could take pictures and run the rreports on it for you), the actual cert is not always (if at all) sent to the vendor. This happened with us. Our jeweler called in two stones from his wholesaler, and gave us copies of the certs, along with Sarin information. But we didn't get the actual cert until about a month after we bought the stone stone. We had the copy, so it wasn't a huge deal--the appraiser used that and we trusted our jeweler. They told us it had to be mailed from the wholesaler. No big deal.




Not all transactions in life will be pleasant. Sam...hope you find a beautiful stone..good luck

 

[dancingmelimel]

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On 11/18/2003 4:48:51 PM samhsu1978 wrote:
...if ordering the diamond from Whiteflash is a already a hassle, then what would happen if more serious issues arise (ie. lifetime upgrades, trade-ins, returns)? I've decided not to explore this option any further.

Cheers----------------

As a very satisfied customer of Whiteflash, not even slightly in the diamond business, I feel obligated to defend them, even though others have already done so amply.

In June or July I purchased a diamond from Whiteflash....they were always courteous and helpful, and very patient with my indecisiveness.....

Just a few months later I changed my mind about that stone and decided I would prefer a cushion cut. I dealt with Bob at Whiteflash to make a trade up, and he was incredibly patient and had to spend a great deal of time to help me find one that fell into the parameters I was looking for. If you think it's hard finding the perfect round, try searching for a cushion! (You can see the stone in Antique & Cushion Cut Lovers, check out my new stone!.)

In short, if anything I was a hassle to them, but they never made me feel I was, and I would not hesitate to recommend them to anyone.

-Melissa