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Who here requires their sapphires be unheated?

Efleon

Efleon

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 25, 2019
Messages
662
I’m obsessed with sapphires lately.
I’m wondering who here is a “purist” and only interested in untreated unheated stones and who just looks for the best color/price among heated stones.
I thought I was fine with heat.
But after looking at a lot of stones, now I’m thinking I may have arrived at the point of caring and wanting no heat untreated only.
But yikes!
Double or more the cost!!
Is t worth it?
Is it a mind-clean issue or “investment” issue or something else??
 
When it's the center stone, I only use unheated sapphire. The reason is actually because I'm trying to build up an heirloom collection, and given the difference in value between heated and unheated, it's much easier just to be able to tell my kids all sapphires above a certain size are unheated, if they ever need to sell the jewelry. It's the same reason why I don't buy any lab stones.
 
I’ve tried to Google this before and haven’t found good results. I’m curious about the color difference between before and after heat. Like are we talking about a stone that looks totally clear and then turns deep blue? Or is it a pale blue that turns deeper blue? Or pink or whatever color it is. I’ve always wondered that.
 
I felt similarly- that I didn’t really care as long as I enjoyed the color. But similar to @voce i am also trying to build up heirlooms and know that unheated has more value, and there is something really romantic about the idea that the stone hasn’t been treated and still has such amazing color!
 
To me it’s a mind clean thing. So yes unheated only even though heated can be nicer color and of course much better priced.

I make exceptions for earrings or settings/side stones that I see sort of almost like costume jewelry if that makes sense? But otherwise untreated sapphires/rubies only.

Also experimented with synthetic gems but nope I don’t feel the same way about made man stones so must be natural.
 
The only colored stones I've ever bought have been fully natural diamonds of the best color.
By fully natural I mean, natural material and natural color origin, per GIA.
It doesn't bother me a bit that the only ones I can afford are tiny.
If I were to ever spring for a sapphire it would also be fully natural, per AGS.

For a given budget I'd end up with a smaller sapphire, but I value and only want what's fully natural.
It means something to me as the color does.
I guess I'm the opposite of a size queen; I'm a size pauper. :mrgreen:
In mind that's all I could afford.

You'd think this would go without saying, but I've learned on PS it doesn't always ... I apply this standard only to myself, not to others.
Everyone should buy and enjoy whatever they want.
 
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I have a beautiful 4.56ct hot pink sapphire ring that I got for our 25th anniversary. I didn’t really know much about ‘natural’ gemstones then, I just loved the ring. When I had it appraised recently, I was told that it was completely natural, and you can see some lovely silks in it.
 
I don't mind routine heat treatment.

I do not have children, and do not plan to have any (nor do I have relationships with my cousin's children where I am close to them) so I really don't intend to pass down heirlooms to anyone. My plan is to sell the vast majority of my pieces as I get older and leave instructions in death as to where to send them for sale.

If I found a stone that was unheated, bonus, but I don't require it.
 
I care about heating, I also think it's something like the romantic quality of it coming from the ground. I love natural inclusions too. I guess I just like natural everything that I can wear, even cloudy, even small.
 
So I started trying to Google again what things look like before and after treatment and now I remember why I stopped. It’s because it’s so overwhelming and there’s so many different types of heat treatment etc. And I’m still not getting really good photographs of what some thing looks like before and after with heat. Except for pressure heating which is like night and day and does not seem desirable. Anybody care to weigh in with a good article or picture?
 
I find myself only wanting unheated. I am also trying to build a few heirloom pieces to pass on, or sell later in life if necessary. I don't know if the heated will grow in value as much. I think it is also a mind clean issue for me. I want the best for myself and my small collection.

I'll also add that I have purchased most of my jewelry as vintage or antique pieces, so I think the prices start off a little lower compared to totally new or custom stones/pieces.
 
One factor that I think drives whether you’re okay with heated or unheated is what is the purpose a piece of jewelry with the sapphire in it is serving for you? Like, some people buy a sapphire ring for the sapphire, and for people who are prioritising the value and origin etc of the sapphire because the most important part of the ring to them is the sapphire centre; they naturally wish to maximise the value from that. So they want unheated, or even if they’re okay with heated they want to ensure it’s heat only and has a certificate etc. For some people what matters is the ring as a whole, so the setting quality and craftsmanship etc. These are people for whom the sapphire’s value is perhaps less important.

Especially on pricescope I think the former are more prevalent but I have seen people with the latter attitude in real life. I myself kind of feel similarly. I’m very exacting with setting quality and craftsmanship. Most of my pieces are handforged. But I have no qualms with heated or treated or whatnot because for me the coloured stone is just there for aesthetic reasons (though I don’t have a lot of coloured stone jewelry, but just trying to explain how I feel about it).
 
Montana

Before & After, heat treating Montana sapphires

Here are four sapphires from the rock creek, Montana, deposit. I signed them out of our guild collection as four uncut stones, cut two of them, then sent all four off to be heat treated. This was an educational project for our guild members, I ended up doing a newsletter article on them, then...
www.pricescope.com
www.earthstreasury.com

Heat Treatment of Montana Sapphires - Earth's Treasury

Introduction This page has been written to provide an overview of the heat treatment of Montana sapphires, as the topic is one that is still little understood by many. In the following sections I’ll explain why some sapphires are heated, what is done during the heat treatment process, how it...
www.earthstreasury.com www.earthstreasury.com

Temperature Changes of Madagascar

Madagascar Sapphire: Low-Temperature Heat Treatment Experiments

Madagascar is one of the world's top sources for fine blue sapphire. Lotus Gemology conducted heat treatment experiments to better understand this material and how it responds to heat treatment.
www.lotusgemology.com www.lotusgemology.com
 
I buy what I can comfortably afford, untreated and unheated for heirlooms. But my (eventual) engagement ring is a lab spinel because I had a very specific gem, size, color, and cut in mind that would have been way out of my stratosphere financially. Even if strings had been pulled and money lent to purchase something all natural I don’t think I would have enjoyed the ring any more than I already do.

So I’m comfortable mixing natural and lab, knowing the natural will make great heirlooms and the labs will continue to be worn and enjoyed.
 
Wow! Thank you all so much for your very insightful responses.
I agree that it depends on what your purpose is.
Simple enjoyment, investment/heirloom, or mind-clean.
I also very much appreciate @chrono helping us understand what heat actually does to the stone.
My next sapphire is most likely going to be unheated. Mostly for a combo of mind-clean and investment/heirloom reasons. Which, of course means the stone will necessarily be much smaller ....
 
I'm okay with heated gems, as long as there is no diffusion, fillers, etc. If I had unlimited funds, I'd go with unheated. But (sigh...) I don't.
 
When I think of investment quality gemstones, it's normally stones over $50,000. I have seen many heated sapphires and rubies that are over $100,000. Heating is done to improve either the color or slightly the clarity, and therefore make the stone more valuable.

Is a small $2000 no heat stone worth more than a larger $2000 heated stone?

If you are thinking of investments for your children, you are much better off in the stock market than in gemstones or diamonds. $1000 in Apple stock in 2000 is worth $114,018 today, and can be sold in 1 minute. I doubt any sapphire you purchased 21 years ago would bring that type of yield, or would be able to be sold so quickly.
 
PrecisionGem said:
When I think of investment quality gemstones, it's normally stones over $50,000. I have seen many heated sapphires and rubies that are over $100,000. Heating is done to improve either the color or slightly the clarity, and therefore make the stone more valuable.

Is a small $2000 no heat stone worth more than a larger $2000 heated stone?

If you are thinking of investments for your children, you are much better off in the stock market than in gemstones or diamonds. $1000 in Apple stock in 2000 is worth $114,018 today, and can be sold in 1 minute. I doubt any sapphire you purchased 21 years ago would bring that type of yield, or would be able to be sold so quickly.
Click to expand...

Hah - true on the Apple stock! But it may also be worthless in twenty years - you never know. That is why I like to diversify my portfolio! ;)
 
lizzydm26 said:
Hah - true on the Apple stock! But it may also be worthless in twenty years - you never know. That is why I like to diversify my portfolio! ;-)
Click to expand...

Of course you should not only buy Apple stock, a well diversified portfolio of stocks will outperform gems and jeweler however. Look at the DOW for that same past 20 years. A $1000 would yield over $3000 today. Sapphire prices have not increased that amount.

Most times you are buying gems/jeweler at retail or someplace between retail and a high wholesale price. When you try to sell, you most likely end up at a low wholesale price.

I was in a jeweler's store a few years ago who bought my stones. He had a customer come in with a diamond he sold her a few years back. She want to upgrade the diamond. She paid him $2200 for the stone, and when she went to upgrade on a bigger stone, he offered her $700. She was upset and shocked, but ended up taking the $700 towards a more expensive stone. She would have been better off with her money under the mattress!
 
PrecisionGem said:
Of course you should not only buy Apple stock, a well diversified portfolio of stocks will outperform gems and jeweler however. Look at the DOW for that same past 20 years. A $1000 would yield over $3000 today. Sapphire prices have not increased that amount.

Most times you are buying gems/jeweler at retail or someplace between retail and a high wholesale price. When you try to sell, you most likely end up at a low wholesale price.

I was in a jeweler's store a few years ago who bought my stones. He had a customer come in with a diamond he sold her a few years back. She want to upgrade the diamond. She paid him $2200 for the stone, and when she went to upgrade on a bigger stone, he offered her $700. She was upset and shocked, but ended up taking the $700 towards a more expensive stone. She would have been better off with her money under the mattress!
Click to expand...

My comment about Apple was in jest. I completely agree that the stock market is a much better investment.

And I agree that purchasing retail and high wholesale is not a great investment. Which is why I try to mainly purchase at auction. It is also about the pursuit of a great deal for me. I personally hope to love my unheated almost 12ct sapphire for a lifetime, and to pass it along as an heirloom piece, and never worry about selling it!
 
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To be clear - I am not thinking about unheated stones as a great investment - but rather, to me, it makes them a bit more special if they are unheated. It just does. Many of my stones aren't even especially valuable. And I may buy some lab or heated stones, but i would think about them differently, and i'd spend less on setting them.

That's what I meant by unheated stones for "heirloom" pieces. I also don't want to assume that my children, or their children, won't want to sell them one day. If they do - it will be easy to say "collection of unheated gems" and not worry about tracking down old certificates, etc.

It's a mind clean thing more than anything else
 
I’m a sapphire magnet it seems. They sort of come to me.
Ive always bought what I like the look of at a price that equates to a bargain. I consider jewellery and gems as investments in my joy and the pleasing result of my “hunting”.
So I’m ok with heat, I expect it, but I don’t want flux filling, BE treatment or synthetic.
 
I agree.
It’s not that I expect to recoup my cost plus some.
It’s more that I invest in a best stone I can that gives me unparalleled joy while I wear it and then have the ability to pass it on to its next caretaker.
As Elizabeth Taylor famously said, none of us actually “own” our jewelry, we are simply the caretakers until it passes to the next caretaker (quote loosely translated....please see “My Love Affair With Jewelry “ by Elizabeth Taylor).
 
I don't think anything we buy will become an heirloom. It's just not that valuable, with the exception of a few gems like kashmir sapphires, unheated Burmese rubies, Russian alexandrite, argyle daemonds and clean namayan spinel in decent sizes nothing is appreciating fast enough in value (maybe paraiba from Brazil will eventually get added to this list).

Since we tend to deal in <10 k purchases. By the time you deal with expected losses on resale, it will take decades for the things to even tripple/quadruple in value. And even once they have appreciated; they'll be a fraction of what one bitcoin has been worth in the last month. It'll also be dwarfed by the amount any half decent stock portfolio made last year. Unheated sapphires in the less than 10 k range definitely aren't rising fast enough in price for it to make sense for them to be heirlooms. I think the property we pass down will be the asset which becomes 'an heirloom'/makes a veritable difference (even now buy in for this asset is about 2 million, and it seems to rise by 10% every couple of years).


I like unheated though-- because I recognize my jewelery is entirely a frivolity. It has no purpose and no value, other than just making me happy and I'm amazed by how pretty gravel which is dug straight out of the ground can be. I also don't have a problem with heated though, as the stuff naturally gets heated in the ground anyway.... so it's really often just a matter of when/how the heating occurred.
 
I think particularly with @qubitasaurus and some others, the notion of what is heirloom is quite different from mine.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heirloom
By heirloom, I mean a keepsake that's a memento of me, because I am usually the one who designs the jewelry I intend to pass down. Each piece I'd consider heirloom would be an instance of my own artistic expression. If later generations sell them off, they should be able to get some value out of it, but I'm not simply looking to pass to them assets of high value... no stock portfolio or real estate holding will be able to remain the same for as long as metals and stones, and they are generally not personal enough for me to consider them heirlooms. Investment assets and heirloom pieces are different to me... I intend to pass both down to my descendants, but I'm one of those people who believes passing down intangible skills that enable children to become independent thinkers and entrepreneurs is way more important than passing along material assets only prized for their value. Jewelry is frivolous, but for me it's an expression of my creativity at times. This is why I try to create unique pieces, which I consider little works of art and love with symbols for me and my loved ones.
 
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qubitasaurus said:
I don't think anything we buy will become an heirloom. It's just not that valuable, with the exception of a few gems like kashmir sapphires, unheated Burmese rubies, Russian alexandrite, argyle daemonds and clean namayan spinel in decent sizes nothing is appreciating fast enough in value (maybe paraiba from Brazil will eventually get added to this list).

Since we tend to deal in <10 k purchases. By the time you deal with expected losses on resale, it will take decades for the things to even tripple/quadruple in value. And even once they have appreciated; they'll be a fraction of what one bitcoin has been worth in the last month. It'll also be dwarfed by the amount any half decent stock portfolio made last year. Unheated sapphires in the less than 10 k range definitely aren't rising fast enough in price for it to make sense for them to be heirlooms. I think the property we pass down will be the asset which becomes 'an heirloom'/makes a veritable difference (even now buy in for this asset is about 2 million, and it seems to rise by 10% every couple of years).


I like unheated though-- because I recognize my jewelery is entirely a frivolity. It has no purpose and no value, other than just making me happy and I'm amazed by how pretty gravel which is dug straight out of the ground can be. I also don't have a problem with heated though, as the stuff naturally gets heated in the ground anyway.... so it's really often just a matter of when/how the heating occurred.
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Heirloom meaning passing down to future generations? I can’t fathom why many jewelry items on PS won’t become heirlooms, I don’t think heirloom here means museum quality...

For example, my grandmother collected Persian rugs. Some rare, some not. All were inherited, and became heirlooms. Some were sold, some have been kept due to taste differences. I’d consider her rug collection, heirlooms
 
ED980D4B-6CB9-4B0C-814A-874789E3F397.jpeg

I tend to think of my bling as being keepsakes rather than heirlooms. Not so much a “oh my great grandmother’s xxx ring” but rather something for my kids to remember me by. Am also open to the idea of selling my bling if my kids have no interest in them whatsoever.

Anyway back to the topic, so the reason why I only go for unheated sapphires is purely a mind clean and personal preference sort of thing. I think heated or unheated doesn’t affect the item being a keepsake but it’s my preference.
 
I have a son, but my plan is to sell everything before I die. Hopefully. He might get one piece if he has a kid. I'm not narcissistic enough to think my potential descendants would want grandma's junk. Just look at all the stuff on ebay and auctions. So... I buy/wear what I like. I never look at it as an investment or expect value to appreciate. And to be quite frank, unless a gem is large and top quality with desirable origins, I can't imagine getting your money back. You can find steals all over the place from people who think their pieces will appreciate over time.
 
I personally prefer unheated where possible, and as I don't have unlimited funds, am willing to trade off on colour for this. I'd rather have a not-trade-ideal colour that came that way from the ground. It's a purely mind clean aka psychological issue for me. But I tend to like lighter colours and less saturated stones that aren't trade ideal in any case, so it's no great sacrifice.

I generally lean towards things in their natural state... I've never seen the inside of a nail salon for example (and it definitely shows).
 
This thread offers good reasons to buy what we love: 1. Most jewelry will not appreciate in value, and 2. It’s unlikely our heirs will have the same taste as us. Of my grandmothers‘ and mother’s things, I have 1 or 2 pieces from each of them, and it’s the non-jewelry things of zero value that mean a lot more. And so we should buy what makes our hearts sing!

Those heat treatment articles are fascinating! To read that Madagascar sapphires are 600 million years old—now I want one just because of that!
 
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