premieragi
Rough_Rock
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Wholesale pricing for unheated 5 ct plus Burma ruby
- Thread starter premieragi
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Polyhex
Brilliant_Rock
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My suggestions is to buy access to Gemeprice, it is reasonably priced and can help answer this question using the color of the stone. https://www.gemewizard.com/gemeprice/
premieragi
Rough_Rock
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Thanks so much...will do!!
There are infinite gradations in hue, saturation, tone, cut quality, clarity -- and a subtle distinction can mean a 10-fold change in value. There really is only wholesale pricing for commoditized gems like "consumer" diamonds (i.e., ones that do not have their own IG page 
) and near-commercial-grade colored stones.
For a fine 5-ct Burmese ruby, there is no "wholesale price." They are all one-offs and sell for whatever the seller's needs and/or the buyer's desire dictate on that particular day.
There are a number of guides that one can buy access to online but it is nothing like the objectivity of diamond grading and pricing. It can be a challenge to even get concordant origin reports from the top labs in the world. And the factors driving appearance and value the most are usually not even mentioned in a report (except for the very basic treatment and origin data).
And, imo and experience, there is almost zero correlation between the seller's cost of acquisition and his/her subsequent asking price except at the very high end.
It's very frustrating. But that's why it is endlessly fascinating and diverting. Otherwise it would be just like buying high-color high-clarity white diamonds -- which seems kinda like just trading up your gold bar for a slightly larger gold bar every few years.
) and near-commercial-grade colored stones.For a fine 5-ct Burmese ruby, there is no "wholesale price." They are all one-offs and sell for whatever the seller's needs and/or the buyer's desire dictate on that particular day.
There are a number of guides that one can buy access to online but it is nothing like the objectivity of diamond grading and pricing. It can be a challenge to even get concordant origin reports from the top labs in the world. And the factors driving appearance and value the most are usually not even mentioned in a report (except for the very basic treatment and origin data).
And, imo and experience, there is almost zero correlation between the seller's cost of acquisition and his/her subsequent asking price except at the very high end.
It's very frustrating. But that's why it is endlessly fascinating and diverting. Otherwise it would be just like buying high-color high-clarity white diamonds -- which seems kinda like just trading up your gold bar for a slightly larger gold bar every few years.
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As above, with regarded and reputable certification (ie GRS Swiss Lab, Gubelin, Lotus, Prestige report AGL) confirming unheated status and Burmese origin, if a top colour with good clarity, $50,000 plus a carat for over 5 carat rubies.
Being a 5 carat unheated ruby from Burma means little if the colour is undesirable (too pink / too orange) and/or if the gem is heavily included or with fissures.
That said, the market for such premium gemstones is limited, an ordinary person trying to sell such a valuable gem would have some difficulty. It would probably be necessary to go through a gem dealer or renown Auction house.
Being a 5 carat unheated ruby from Burma means little if the colour is undesirable (too pink / too orange) and/or if the gem is heavily included or with fissures.
That said, the market for such premium gemstones is limited, an ordinary person trying to sell such a valuable gem would have some difficulty. It would probably be necessary to go through a gem dealer or renown Auction house.
premieragi
Rough_Rock
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fredflintstone
Brilliant_Rock
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If you asked this question 20 years ago, I could give you an answer. But with the advent of the internet with source dealers now selling to the public there is really no such thing as wholesale pricing.
Of course, there are still dealers who sale to the industry only as wholesalers but the reality of them selling stones cheaper than the public can buy them is long gone. The ones that have/had a long-standing reputation as traditional wholesalers are still in business...some...some. But the jewelers they sale to pay more than what any savvy internet gemstone buyer can buy the same quality now by at least 200% to 300%.
But name still equates with quality in some minds and they are willing to pay for name.
The gemstone business has turned head over heels the last 20 years or so. Just no because of the internet but shopping channels too. Shopping channels may get laughed at by the self-deemed elite, but they have changed the colored gemstones business & created countless colored gemstone lovers who had no idea. Let alone under selling retail by 200% or more.
Well, they "made" tanzanite and look how well that went. They "helped" the very low end. Everyone knows a counterexample (I know) but those shows do not reach high-income households. And they sell low-quality Chinese merch so I infer they neither target not reach a discerning audience, irrespective of income. That's like saying Parade magazine revolutionized the market for fine porcelain.
You can't undersell by more than 100% unless they are paying you to take the stones.
There have to be very few savvy wholesale-types buying on the web; apart from diamonds, all the good stuff has to be seen in person. I'm an amateur and even I've learned this. Sure you can buy parcels of "fine" and uniformly colored, calibrated-size stuff sight-unseen but not top-notch untreated goods. It's all shows, auctions, and networks.
premieragi
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fredflintstone
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LOL!
Tanzanite is huge. What’s your point? It sales the most after the big three in many countries. Someone promoted it. Guess who?
I'm not speaking of QVC and the Home Shopping network. I'm speaking of channels like the Gem Shopping Network dedicated to colored gemstone jewelry and loose stones from $100.00 to $1,000,000. When Mahenge Spinel came out, they had a huge supply. Top end Nigerian/Mozambique Pariaba, Alex, Lightning Ridge Black Opal, Oregon Sunstone. it goes on and on.
I'm talking about ValueVision in the 90's, when Nigerian Rubellite, Nigerian Spessartite, Zambia "Parti-Color" Tourmaline hit the market, much of it through them. These and more were not cheap stones or jewelry. They were the first to put Mawsitsit in front of millions of people that had no idea what it was. These were sold by designers, not the "Chinese."
These and other shopping channels reached millions of people of all incomes and taught them that Garnets just were not red. Spinel was not just a synthetic put in class rings. Sapphire came in other colors than blue. Zircon was not cubic Zirconia. Opened the world to Sphene. Opened the world to Welo Opal. I could go on and on and on.
They turned the colored gemstone world around and opened the eyes to millions of consumers to the beauties and attributes of cheap unknown gemstones to world class material that they never knew about and many a collector cut their teeth there.
Don't underestimate their selling power and staying power of these sellers. These are professionals, even if many love to stretch the truth. But they sale far under B and M retail prices. They have huge buying power in which enable them to do this.
"You can't undersell by more than 100% unless they are paying you to take the stones.+”
LOL!
What is 100%? You buy a huge parcel of cut gemstones for $100.00 a carat (much less for rough) from the source (hell, even $10.00 a carat and turn around and sale it for $100.00 a carat)) You sale it to other wholesalers for $250.00 a carat as a parcel or $500.00 a carat as a single stone to ful retail. They turn around and sale it for $2000.00-$3000.00 a carat to you, the consumer. Most dealers that sale huge quantities (even small dealers) would laugh at 100% profit. I know, I was there.
If you are speaking of Christies and Sothebys, yes, you will see the best but many more of those top end stones never make it to auction and are sold to a very short list of super rich collectors and investors.
The point be made here is colored gemstones as a whole have become much more popular with the advent of shopping channels and the far, far, far, majority is sold to average Joe and Jane, which amounts to a huge number of stones and money keeping everyone from the source miners to the Brick and Mortar retailer at the end of the chain in business.
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premieragi
Rough_Rock
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fredflintstone
Brilliant_Rock
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No, please don't do that. I was in the business practically all my adult life. There are deals to be had but it is all relative. Nothing is cheap in good quality. But this business is no different than any other. It is all about making money.
Are we just going to stop buying everything?
Please, look for your stone and when you get it, it will make yu happy everytime you look at it.
premieragi
Rough_Rock
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You got me -- I've never heard of any of those cable TV stations from the '90s. And I have never met anyone who has or (probably) would buy gems from these folks "...even if many love to stretch the truth."
As I'm sure you know, there is plenty of antique and vintage jewelry with more zircons, opals, non-blue sapphires, rubellite, and garnet than you can dream of. Maybe those shows re-introduced people to them again 75 years later?
We both mentioned tanzanite. It is not an heirloom stone. It is the product of a sensational marketing juggernaut and seems to still be cheaper every time I peek despite theswindling dwindling supply. Diamonds are also the product of a marketing juggernaut, of course, but they last for generations of daily wear.
"What is 100%?" My point there was just math. Nothing can be on sale for > 100% off unless they are paying you to take it. On the flip side, there is no limit to the percent markup (100%, 1,000,000%). I got a few things for 100% off in the FREE section of NextDoor. But no gems so far.
I'm glad you were able to make good selling gems on TV. Of course there was money to be made -- as the middleman as you point out. Sounds like glory days for the sellers. The only "as seen on TV" thing I ever bought was as an eight-year-old and I learned my lesson way back then...
Interesting perspective. Sounds like you're in the trade.
As I'm sure you know, there is plenty of antique and vintage jewelry with more zircons, opals, non-blue sapphires, rubellite, and garnet than you can dream of. Maybe those shows re-introduced people to them again 75 years later?
We both mentioned tanzanite. It is not an heirloom stone. It is the product of a sensational marketing juggernaut and seems to still be cheaper every time I peek despite the
"What is 100%?" My point there was just math. Nothing can be on sale for > 100% off unless they are paying you to take it. On the flip side, there is no limit to the percent markup (100%, 1,000,000%). I got a few things for 100% off in the FREE section of NextDoor. But no gems so far.
I'm glad you were able to make good selling gems on TV. Of course there was money to be made -- as the middleman as you point out. Sounds like glory days for the sellers. The only "as seen on TV" thing I ever bought was as an eight-year-old and I learned my lesson way back then...
Interesting perspective. Sounds like you're in the trade.
fredflintstone
Brilliant_Rock
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If you have never heard of those channels, how can you make a judgement? The blind leading the blind. Cannot speculate on experience if you do not have it.
True, all those stones you mentioned have been around for long before shopping channels and television. But you are missing a huge point. There were very few people who knew about these stones relative to the general population way back then as compared to today and those that were, were mostly relegated to the wealthy as they were the ones who could afford to be collectors. These channels introduced colored stones to millions at much more affordable prices. They helped the whole-colored stone industry sale more colored stones, no matter the format of sale. They turned the world onto color. There is no way getting around that. No way. It is because of them that color is more available to you and everyone, no matter where you buy it or how you think you came by it. They have influenced and revolutionized the whole industry. They have helped sale more colored gemstones and keep all sectors of the industry working more than any other format of selling until the internet.
The world has been full of middlemen in the gemstone business since the beginning. Always will be. Unless you go to the mine and buy, there are multitudes of middlemen, even before the gemstones leaves the source country, they have been handled by at least two sellers.
I'll give you your math on a 100% off. But the point I'm making is people now can go buy a stone for $300.00 that at a brick-and-mortar store would cost $1500.00 and even more. Why, because of shopping channels that I mentioned, but even past that, the advent of the internet and being able to buy closer to the source, as the 1000's of source country dealers on the internet now are a testimony to that.
Seems you have a problem with Tanzanite. I say, hey, there are countless people who would love to own a top blue Sapphire but that is like flying to the moon, they'll never afford it. There is nothing wrong with buying top end Tanzanite as a substitute for these people at 5% to 10% of the cost of top-class blue Sapphire. As long as they know it is softer and they cannot wear it every day. They can still have something nice to cherish. And what is wrong with that.
Sorry, I never sold on TV but I have sold to those markets all the way down to the individual end buyer. I have known people to buy colored stones and colored gemstone jewelry off the shopping channels and sale them on consignment through mom-and-pop jewelry stores and make 400% to 700% off the sale. Yes, that is a huge mark up, but nothing out of the ordinary. I have seen the gemstone business revolutionize itself. First with TV and now the internet, and that is good news for you and everyone else who loves colored stones for their own enjoyment.
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