Why does my excellent cut diamond look hazy in harsh light?

[ChristineGreco]

I know ideal cut diamonds look dark in direct sunlight or harsh lighting, but why the hazy and speckled look?

 

[blingbuyer]

Re: Why does my excellent cut diamond look hazy in harsh lig

your probably going to need to share the specs(proportions, cert type or number, 4Cs, etc) of the stone to get feedback.

 

[ChristineGreco]

Re: Why does my excellent cut diamond look hazy in harsh lig

Thank you!

1.55
55% table
62.6 total depth
33.5 crown angle
41.4 pavilion angle
H color
SI2
GIA triple excellent
No fluorescence

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Why does my excellent cut diamond look hazy in harsh lig

Because it's not well cut. And probably has clarity issues.

GIA triple Excellent isn't enough. It's over deep, has a shallow crown angle and the pavilion angle is way out of range. GIA Ex is REALLY seriously overbroad and includes many stones, like this one that are frankly sub par with angles that do not work well together at all.

Sorry. PLUS it's an SI2. And I'm betting it has twining wisps or clouds that impact it's brilliance. What are the inclusions in the order they are listed on the lab reprot.

Does it also have fluorescence?

I don't mean to rip your diamond to shreds but... it's kind of .... not really a good stone at all. Can you return or upgrade it? It scores a 3.9 on the HCA. And that's not a surprise.


Here's my usual blurb on round diamonds. I've bolded the important parts for you:

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. And GIA Ex is not enough. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only. EGL is a bad option: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.
So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.


Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium.

 

[ChristineGreco]

Re: Why does my excellent cut diamond look hazy in harsh lig

Wow... No flourescence. Yes... Twinning wisps, feather, crystal... in that order. I bought this diamond in person, knowing it scored 3.9 on HCA and comparing it in person to two other diamonds scoring 1.7 and still preferred the look of this one. I'm extremely happy with how it performs. The only thing that worried me was that hazy appearance under harsh lighting or direct sun. What do diamonds that score well on HCA look like under these lighting conditions? Does anyone have pictures to share? Also, my diamond is eye clean to my standards which are high. I thought the inclusions in SI2 diamonds are not supposed to affect brilliance? Thank you...

 

[luvdajules]

Re: Why does my excellent cut diamond look hazy in harsh lig

Twinning wisps and clouds can be problematic, especially as you go down the clarity scale. It sounds like you are overall very happy with your diamond but just wanted to know more about a specific lighting condition that you noticed a different look to your stone. Diamonds are very beautiful so I hope you continue to enjoy it. I also have an Si2 and I think it's just marvelous. I was able to get my dream size within budget. Since you knew about the HCA score of your diamond before your purchase, it sounds like you made some thoughtful tradeoffs too and still thought it was beautiful. You really have a lovely wedding set, enjoy in much happiness and health!

 

[MelisendeDiamonds]

Re: Why does my excellent cut diamond look hazy in harsh lig

Wow... No flourescence. Yes... Twinning wisps, feather, crystal... in that order. I bought this diamond in person, knowing it scored 3.9 on HCA and comparing it in person to two other diamonds scoring 1.7 and still preferred the look of this one. I'm extremely happy with how it performs. The only thing that worried me was that hazy appearance under harsh lighting or direct sun. What do diamonds that score well on HCA look like under these lighting conditions? Does anyone have pictures to share? Also, my diamond is eye clean to my standards which are high. I thought the inclusions in SI2 diamonds are not supposed to affect brilliance? Thank you...

Even "Ideal cut" diamonds can look dark in photographs in direct sunlight. Try first cleaning your diamond thoroughly especially the pavilion(bottom) then viewing it under a tree with a bit of shade and then snap some more photos.

I am sorry but you aren't going to get any definitive advice based on the grading report and those two photographs in this thread.
An independent appraiser(one not selling diamonds) with the diamond in hand may be able to point out if there are any major flaws that impact brilliance and specifically if the grade setting twinning wisps are impacting brilliance. Given the GIA excellent cut grade, while the proportions may cause some loss of life at the edges of the table I doubt that is causing a major problem.

If you can't return it(or don't want to) than just enjoy it and realize that in bright sunlight the camera and your eyes has to adjust to the abundance of light and it make objects look darker.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Why does my excellent cut diamond look hazy in harsh lig

SI2 inclusions can affect brilliance. I assume that is what you are seeing unless your stone wasn't cleaned (as in brushing the pavilion) before you looked at it in the sun. Being dirty is the number one reason stones will look hazy when otherwise having no cut or clarity issues.

 

[ChristineGreco]

Re: Why does my excellent cut diamond look hazy in harsh lig

Twinning wisps and clouds can be problematic, especially as you go down the clarity scale. It sounds like you are overall very happy with your diamond but just wanted to know more about a specific lighting condition that you noticed a different look to your stone. Diamonds are very beautiful so I hope you continue to enjoy it. I also have an Si2 and I think it's just marvelous. I was able to get my dream size within budget. Since you knew about the HCA score of your diamond before your purchase, it sounds like you made some thoughtful tradeoffs too and still thought it was beautiful. You really have a lovely wedding set, enjoy in much happiness and health!

Thank you so much! I decided on an eye clean SI2 also to get my dream size within our budget.
I thought that this GIA excellent diamond that was beautiful to my eyes (even when comparing to better HCA scoring stones) was a great choice. Thanks again for your reply!

 

[ChristineGreco]

Re: Why does my excellent cut diamond look hazy in harsh lig

Wow... No flourescence. Yes... Twinning wisps, feather, crystal... in that order. I bought this diamond in person, knowing it scored 3.9 on HCA and comparing it in person to two other diamonds scoring 1.7 and still preferred the look of this one. I'm extremely happy with how it performs. The only thing that worried me was that hazy appearance under harsh lighting or direct sun. What do diamonds that score well on HCA look like under these lighting conditions? Does anyone have pictures to share? Also, my diamond is eye clean to my standards which are high. I thought the inclusions in SI2 diamonds are not supposed to affect brilliance? Thank you...

Even "Ideal cut" diamonds can look dark in photographs in direct sunlight. Try first cleaning your diamond thoroughly especially the pavilion(bottom) then viewing it under a tree with a bit of shade and then snap some more photos.

I am sorry but you aren't going to get any definitive advice based on the grading report and those two photographs in this thread.
An independent appraiser(one not selling diamonds) with the diamond in hand may be able to point out if there are any major flaws that impact brilliance and specifically if the grade setting twinning wisps are impacting brilliance. Given the GIA excellent cut grade, while the proportions may cause some loss of life at the edges of the table I doubt that is causing a major problem.

If you can't return it(or don't want to) than just enjoy it and realize that in bright sunlight the camera and your eyes has to adjust to the abundance of light and it make objects look darker.

Thank you so much for your very helpful reply. I am going to find an independent appraiser in my area to confirm that the twinnjng wisps aren't impacting the brilliance.

I am also going to clean the diamond and take more pictures to post in different lighting.

I really appreciate your helpful reply!!

 

[ChristineGreco]

Re: Why does my excellent cut diamond look hazy in harsh lig

SI2 inclusions can affect brilliance. I assume that is what you are seeing unless your stone wasn't cleaned (as in brushing the pavilion) before you looked at it in the sun. Being dirty is the number one reason stones will look hazy when otherwise having no cut or clarity issues.

Thank you for your reply! I did not clean my stone before taking the pics, so I am going to do that and take more pics. I'm hoping it's a dirty pavilion causing the hazy look and not the twinnjng wisps.

Thank you!

 

[HappyNewLife]

Re: Why does my excellent cut diamond look hazy in harsh lig

both the diamonds my Fiance and I have score under 2 on the HCA. And had good light return based on the idealscope image. And this is still how they look in the sun (and I am obsessive about cleaning them):

Mine:


Hers (on my finger):


Neither diamond has fluor, both are G/eye-clean SI1. The other night, my diamond looked BLACK under this weird outdoor fluorescent crap lighting. BLACK, but sparkly. It freaked me out, LOL.

 

[ChristineGreco]

Re: Why does my excellent cut diamond look hazy in harsh lig

both the diamonds my Fiance and I have score under 2 on the HCA. And had good light return based on the idealscope image. And this is still how they look in the sun (and I am obsessive about cleaning them):

Mine:


Hers (on my finger):


Neither diamond has fluor, both are G/eye-clean SI1. The other night, my diamond looked BLACK under this weird outdoor fluorescent crap lighting. BLACK, but sparkly. It freaked me out, LOL.

THANK YOU so much for sharing these pictures!! They have the same look mine does. That's exactly what I needed... to see if diamonds scoring under 2 looked the same as mine under those lighting conditions. Out of curiosity, what are the grade setting inclusions in your and your fiance's SI1s? I am a little freaked out about my SI2s twinning wisps.

I can imagine how freaked out you were when your diamond looked BLACK under those outdoor lights! So strange how diamonds behave under different conditions! LOL

 

[HappyNewLife]

Re: Why does my excellent cut diamond look hazy in harsh lig

glad to be of help. I was actually googling last night to figure out why my diamond went BLACK under that light, while my fiance's diamond did not. I think it's because hers is chronically filthy and mine is always clean, LOL!

Here is the GIA report info on my inclusions (both diamonds are GIA XXX):

cloud
crystal
needle
feather
indented natural
additional clouds not shown

hers:

feather, crystal
additional clouds not shown

DANG, I had forgotten what a mess my diamond was, LOL. What's funny is, mine is much more sparkly than hers. It just goes darker in certain lighting. While hers is much whiter and more of an "icy" look. Not crushed ice, just very different from mine.

 

[ChristineGreco]

Re: Why does my excellent cut diamond look hazy in harsh lig

glad to be of help. I was actually googling last night to figure out why my diamond went BLACK under that light, while my fiance's diamond did not. I think it's because hers is chronically filthy and mine is always clean, LOL!

Here is the GIA report info on my inclusions (both diamonds are GIA XXX):

cloud
crystal
needle
feather
indented natural
additional clouds not shown

hers:

feather, crystal
additional clouds not shown

DANG, I had forgotten what a mess my diamond was, LOL. What's funny is, mine is much more sparkly than hers. It just goes darker in certain lighting. While hers is much whiter and more of an "icy" look. Not crushed ice, just very different from mine.

Haha!! But it's eye clean so it's really not a "mess"! LOL That is so interesting how yours is more sparkly and hers whiter. I would think because they both scores under 2, they would perform similarly. Diamonds sure are complicated!! LOL My head hurts from researching the amount I do, never mind the amount of time I spend staring at or louping my diamond!!

Thank you again for your help and for sharing your pics!!

 

[MelisendeDiamonds]

Re: Why does my excellent cut diamond look hazy in harsh lig

I would think because they both scores under 2, they would perform similarly.

No. What gave you that idea?
The HCA if used properly is a blunt weeding out tool. If the score is below 2 according to the author it is worth investigating further with an Idealscope to look closely at performance.

The flavor of a diamond cannot be ascertained by average measurements shown on a grading report and then computed by HCA.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Why does my excellent cut diamond look hazy in harsh lig

I would think because they both scores under 2, they would perform similarly.

No. What gave you that idea?
The HCA if used properly is a blunt weeding out tool. If the score is below 2 according to the author it is worth investigating further with an Idealscope to look closely at performance.

The flavor of a diamond cannot be ascertained by average measurements shown on a grading report and then computed by HCA.

Yup. This.

It's a rudimentary rejection tool. It's not a selection tool and it CERTAINLY is not to be used in place of images and idealscopes, but in conjuction with them. And as noted above, definitely doesn't give you the flavor of the diamond.

 

[HappyNewLife]

Re: Why does my excellent cut diamond look hazy in harsh lig

they both scored under 2 and had good idealscope images, were both 60/60 diamonds, but the angles weren't identical. It just goes to show that 2 diamonds with very similar specs can be so very different.

 

[ChristineGreco]

Re: Why does my excellent cut diamond look hazy in harsh lig

I guess I thought that because so much emphasis is placed here on the HCA, and I thought I read that if two stones both score under 2, no one score is better than the other... But that is still only in the context of a rejection tool. Thank you both for clarifying. Being that I selected my diamond in person, and thought it performed well, despite the 3.9 HCA score, do the angles/measurements have no redeeming qualities? Despite GIA triple ex and despite my eyes telling me the stone is beautiful... Those angles do not work well together??

 

[HappyNewLife]

Re: Why does my excellent cut diamond look hazy in harsh lig

If you love your diamond and how it performs in most lighting, enjoy it! I wouldn't trade my diamond for something else because it goes dark in certain light. Do I wish it didn't do that? Yeah, sure. But I'm in love with how it performs 95% of the time, and that's good enough for me! And, who's to say that another diamond isn't going to do the same thing? I've been engaged/married before and have had an ideal cut .79 carat, then 1.0 carat diamond. This is my third diamond (new relationship) and I am 3 for 3 on diamonds going dark in the sun.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Why does my excellent cut diamond look hazy in harsh lig

Only if you lined up a 3.9 with several that were under 2.0 would you really know if you really liked that one best. In addition, they would need to be viewed in multiple lighting and not just under jewelry store lights. A "good"cut diamond can look beautiful alone. But when compared with ideal cuts, it probably wouldn't be the best appearing stone. People go in chain stores every day and buy diamond engagement rings that they think are beautiful. But unless the eye is familiar with ideal cut, most diamonds are going to look appealing in jewelry store lighting. Whether the stone looks as good when dirty or in other lighting is another matter.

Yours is still GIA XXX, so I am sure it is a nice stone! After you clean it, hopefully you'll see that it was just the dirty pavilion causing the haziness.

Oh, and most ideal cut stones go dark in certain lighting. Mine did that under kitchen spot lighting.

 

[MelisendeDiamonds]

Re: Why does my excellent cut diamond look hazy in harsh lig

I guess I thought that because so much emphasis is placed here on the HCA, and I thought I read that if two stones both score under 2, no one score is better than the other... But that is still only in the context of a rejection tool. Thank you both for clarifying. Being that I selected my diamond in person, and thought it performed well, despite the 3.9 HCA score, do the angles/measurements have no redeeming qualities? Despite GIA triple ex and despite my eyes telling me the stone is beautiful... Those angles do not work well together??

1) Is your diamond dark in the pictures due to its proportions. (No not really its mostly to do with the lighting)

2) Is your diamond dark and speckled due to the SI2 inclusions. (No not likely but its worth checking it out with an independent appraiser if you are concerned and still have the option to return).

3) Does the diamond's angles work well together? (Yes of course they do its a GIA Excellent cut, it isn't the pinnacle of cut proportions but that doesn't matter if you compared it to other well cut diamonds under multiple lighting conditions and under light you would normally view your diamonds in.)

4) Will the diamond have a little bit less life on the edge of the table? (Yes it probably will but nothing major or worth worrying about if you like how it performs everywhere except in strong sunlight. You would likely not notice unless you compared it side by side to other diamonds of higher cut quality.)

 

[ChristineGreco]

Re: Why does my excellent cut diamond look hazy in harsh lig

If you love your diamond and how it performs in most lighting, enjoy it! I wouldn't trade my diamond for something else because it goes dark in certain light. Do I wish it didn't do that? Yeah, sure. But I'm in love with how it performs 95% of the time, and that's good enough for me! And, who's to say that another diamond isn't going to do the same thing? I've been engaged/married before and have had an ideal cut .79 carat, then 1.0 carat diamond. This is my third diamond (new relationship) and I am 3 for 3 on diamonds going dark in the sun.

I do love it. With the exception of course with how it looks in direct sun and other harsh lighting. If someone posted a similar picture but had better measurements and an HCA score under 2, people probably would have replied that many ideal cut diamknds look this way and/or it could possibly be dirty... try cleaning pavilion. But because my measurements are not considered ideal on Pricescope, I was told my stone isn't well cut, likely has clarity issues and the angles just don't work together well at all. I love it, and if I was told most ideal cuts look this way and it's normal, I'd continue to be happy, but these thoughts will stick with me... Like a mind clean thing... I am now doubting my eyes or my idea of beauty. But I truly appreciate everyone's help and explanations! THANK YOU!!

I remember reading a post from FB talking about liking the 33.4/41.4 crown/pavilion angle. I would love to hear his thought in my diamond. Unless those angle don't work well with my table and depth percentages... I'm so confused.

 

[ChristineGreco]

Re: Why does my excellent cut diamond look hazy in harsh lig

Only if you lined up a 3.9 with several that were under 2.0 would you really know if you really liked that one best. In addition, they would need to be viewed in multiple lighting and not just under jewelry store lights. A "good"cut diamond can look beautiful alone. But when compaired with ideal cuts, it probably wouldn't be the best appearing stone. People go in chain stores every day and buy diamond engagement rings that they think are beautiful. But unless the eye is familiar with ideal cut, most diamonds are going to look appealing in jewelry store lighting. Whether the stone looks as good when dirty or in other lighting is another matter.

Yours is still GIA XXX, so I am sure it is a nice stone! After you clean it, hopefully you'll see that it was just the dirty pavilion causing the haziness.

Oh, and most ideal cut stones go dark in certain lighting. Mine did that under kitchen spot lighting.

Thank you!! I did line this diamond with two others scoring 1.7 and picked this one. I took them outside and observed them in sunlight although not direct sun. And these pictures were taken under my kitchen spot lighting! I appreciate your help!! Thank you again.

 

[ChristineGreco]

Re: Why does my excellent cut diamond look hazy in harsh lig

I guess I thought that because so much emphasis is placed here on the HCA, and I thought I read that if two stones both score under 2, no one score is better than the other... But that is still only in the context of a rejection tool. Thank you both for clarifying. Being that I selected my diamond in person, and thought it performed well, despite the 3.9 HCA score, do the angles/measurements have no redeeming qualities? Despite GIA triple ex and despite my eyes telling me the stone is beautiful... Those angles do not work well together??

1) Is your diamond dark in the pictures due to its proportions. (No not really its mostly to do with the lighting)

2) Is your diamond dark and speckled due to the SI2 inclusions. (No not likely but its worth checking it out with an independent appraiser if you are concerned and still have the option to return).

3) Does the diamond's angles work well together? (Yes of course they do its a GIA Excellent cut, it isn't the pinnacle of cut proportions but that doesn't matter if you compared it to other well cut diamonds under multiple lighting conditions and under light you would normally view your diamonds in.)

4) Will the diamond have a little bit less life on the edge of the table? (Yes it probably will but nothing major or worth worrying about if you like how it performs everywhere except in strong sunlight. You would likely not notice unless you compared it side by side to other diamonds of higher cut quality.)

Thank you for breaking down and answering each of my concerns! Very helpful and much appreciated! I will get it appraised to confirm there are no issues with clarity affecting brilliance. Otherwise, your explanations have put my mind at ease. Thank you!!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Why does my excellent cut diamond look hazy in harsh lig

Only if you lined up a 3.9 with several that were under 2.0 would you really know if you really liked that one best. In addition, they would need to be viewed in multiple lighting and not just under jewelry store lights. A "good"cut diamond can look beautiful alone. But when compaired with ideal cuts, it probably wouldn't be the best appearing stone. People go in chain stores every day and buy diamond engagement rings that they think are beautiful. But unless the eye is familiar with ideal cut, most diamonds are going to look appealing in jewelry store lighting. Whether the stone looks as good when dirty or in other lighting is another matter.

Yours is still GIA XXX, so I am sure it is a nice stone! After you clean it, hopefully you'll see that it was just the dirty pavilion causing the haziness.

Oh, and most ideal cut stones go dark in certain lighting. Mine did that under kitchen spot lighting.

Thank you!! I did line this diamond with two others scoring 1.7 and picked this one. I took them outside and observed them in sunlight although not direct sun. And these pictures were taken under my kitchen spot lighting! I appreciate your help!! Thank you again.

That is excellent! Then you chose the one that was best to your eye compared to others with a lower HCA score. Really, the HCA is most useful when people are buying over the internet without physically being able to compare stones. I wouldn't recommend below GIA Ex cut just because it is so much money and I'd just want excellent cut when spending thousands of dollars. But it does go to show that what the eye prefers within that GIA Ex category may vary person to person!

 

[ChristineGreco]

Re: Why does my excellent cut diamond look hazy in harsh lig

I cleaned it and took more pictures. I think some of what I'm seeing was oil/dirt on pavilion. Mostly, I think it's the lighting. I don't think it's the twinnjng wisps I'm seeing, but I will confirm with an appraiser. Here are some more pics. The first is under the same harsh lighting. The rest are in natural light and outside on cloudy day.

 

[HappyNewLife]

Re: Why does my excellent cut diamond look hazy in harsh lig

pretty!

OMG, look what I captured today in the car-- apparently a murky green monster!



so while it went dark and this gross green color (from my turquoise shirt maybe?), there was a rainbow disco ball light show on the ceiling/visor of my car.

 

[SirGuy]

Re: Why does my excellent cut diamond look hazy in harsh lig

Looks pretty to me after you cleaned it! Some folks clean theirs every day. My fiancée usually lets me clean hers once every week or two. A little hot water and some Dawn, a baby toothbrush, and a good scrubbing all around (especially on the pavilion) brings back a little miss sparkle.

 

[ChristineGreco]

Re: Why does my excellent cut diamond look hazy in harsh lig

pretty!

OMG, look what I captured today in the car-- apparently a murky green monster!



so while it went dark and this gross green color (from my turquoise shirt maybe?), there was a rainbow disco ball light show on the ceiling/visor of my car.

Oh my goodness!!! Must be from your turquoise shirt!! I hope you enjoyed the light show in you car! LOL