WHY is it SO much harder to judge specs for MY stone???

[quaeritur]

Have any of you diamond freaks (and I use that word lovingly) out there had this problem? You''ve spent endless hours reading tutorials, asking questions, you finally feel you grasp some things, just a little bit... then, when you''re trying to pick out YOUR stone, it becomes impossible? No matter how many helpful posts you''ve made about other people''s specs?

UGH. I think I need a vacation from diamond shopping!

Despite (hopefully) having been of some minuscule help about others'' stones, I seem entirely unable to help myself!

 

[WinkHPD]

And what are you looking for lovely lady? Maybe some of us can help YOU for a change...

Wink

 

[noobie]

It's always easier to spend someone else's money rather than your own

Don't worry I think it's normal. Wink will help you

 

[quaeritur]

Oh, I've no doubt Wink will help me! He's already been great.

But it's hard to be objective when searching for my own purchase - I get all emotionally invested in finding that perfect stone! Never mind that I'm not actually ready to find it yet

Seeing all the purty things around here makes me all antsy, that's all... just pathetic!

 

[quaeritur]

OK - here are the latest subjects of debate. The .91 has a slightly thicker girdle than the .914 (though still listed as medium on the cert). If you had to pick, which would it be and why? Or would you keep searching for something better?

 

[WinkHPD]

The slightly smaller table of the E and the slightly shallower pavilion angle at 40.7 should give the E slightly more dispersion than the D, although I am not sure you could consistently pick out either stone in a blind taste test. Unless your visual acuity is exceptional you will not tell the color difference after ten or eleven o'clock in the morning when your eyes are fresh and at their best. (Assuming you did not go to a rehearsal dinner the night before, like the one I just got home from. No color grading for ME tomorrow!)

You ask if you should keep searching for something better. Better how? Certainly not color, nor cut, although if you want better cut I know a good EightStar dealer. Either of these stones are killer, the only thing that I can see wrong with either of them is that they are not mine to sell...

So IF i were buying one of these without knowing which was which, I would put them side by side and see if one made my heart happier than the other. If I knew, I might pick the D, just for the emotional reason that the D is the PERFECT color, but my sneaking suspicion is that the E will win the blind taste test maybe 55 - 60% of the time. Put them more than a few inches apart and you will never be able to tell which is which.

Sure hope that helps! This is easily one of those "whichever one you choose you win" situations!

Wink

P.S You may have noticed that I give NO weight in my decision to the VG versus ideal polish and symmetry, you can NOT see that with the eye.

 

[chialea]

If you want my totally unscientific and useless opinion on this, I agree with Wink. I'm not sure if it's the photography or the diamond, but the look of the aarows on the E grab me more than the other one... but I'm sure I wouldn't see the difference unmagnified.

Shiny, shiny, win, win.

 

[fire&ice]

Both seem nice. In the end, you just have to pick one.

My method - go with your gut.

 

[Carmel]

Eh...I'd look at the date on the cert. If there's some sort of sentimental attachment, then BINGO!

(I'm not a bimbo...but sometimes, you've just got to look for signs ~ am I right?)

 

[Carmel]

And also, like chialea pointed out (although I was thinking it privately, but just afraid to say it because I've made such a nuisance out of myself on other posts about not adoring the pattern), the arrows on the E appear a bit more delicate vs. the beefier-looking spears on the D.

 

[ep6585]

They both look great. I'd pick the one that costs less.

 

[quaeritur]

----------------
On 7/17/2004 2:08:44 PM Carmel wrote:

Eh...I'd look at the date on the cert. If there's some sort of sentimental attachment, then BINGO!

(I'm not a bimbo...but sometimes, you've just got to look for signs ~ am I right?)----------------

This one made me laugh... that's EXACTLY why I end up so emotional about these stones... I keep looking for signs!

Then what happens is that if I find them, I lose all objectivity about the stone itself, and can't tell if I like it because of the hidden meanings, or because it's an awesome stone. I just don't want to wonder if I got as good a cut as I might have, if I'd been more objective. Does that make any sense?!

So here's what I'm wondering about these two. I agree about the more delicate arrows. I like them too. What I'm worried about is whether I'll lose performance on the depth. I'm OK with sacrificing a teeny bit of spread on the E, but I don't want to sacrifice any performance. The girdle is slightly thicker, which I don't mind, since it will be going into a tension setting, but I don't want it to detract from the stone. My other issue with the E is that there's a fair amount of variation in crown and pavilion angles. I don't have H&A pics, but it's not being sold as a true H&A, so I'm guessing the hearts aren't perfect. I don't mind that either, again, as long as it doesn't affect the performance.

Here's the angle info from the sarin for that E stone:
crown - 33.9-35.6 pavilion - 39.8-41.7
Does that seem like too much variation?

Things I'm NOT worried about are the D vs. E color, either is great with me, or the ideal vs. very good polish/symmetry. I agree totally with Wink that I won't be able to tell those apart. I know, 'coz I've tried!

Thanks for the comments and encouragement, by the way, you've really helped me feel better!!! Keep 'em coming!

Oh, and Wink, I've got an EightStar in the works, ya know

. Next maybe I should get a Venus by Infinity, just to have something different!

PS. Here's the kicker... the D is $5395, but that E is $3899!

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 7/17/2004 5:40:48 PM quaeritur wrote:

----------------
On 7/17/2004 2:08:44 PM Carmel wrote:

PS. Here's the kicker... the D is $5395, but that E is $3899! ----------------

In the immortal words of Carmel -BINGO! I see a number on the cert that speaks to me.

Really, since the stones are so close, I would go with the less expensive one provided it is as eye clean as the D.

 

[WinkHPD]

----------------
Oh, and Wink, I've got an EightStar in the works, ya know

. Next maybe I should get a Venus by Infinity, just to have something different!

PS. Here's the kicker... the D is $5395, but that E is $3899! ----------------

Shhh! I knew that, but I never talk about these things until you do...

Let's see, you have two stones, can't tell them apart, one is a bazillion pennies cheaper than the other one and you want our permission to get it. Okay. Get the one you like, and don't hold it against it that it is also less expensive. Or save all of your pennies for the other option mentioned above, I like that one too!

Wink

 

[quaeritur]

Ah, but I haven't seen them in person! I keep worrying about that part. If I'd actually seen them, it would be easy!!!

In saying I couldn't tell the diff between Ideal and VG polish/symm, I meant in general, in other stones I've seen.

So you don't think I need to worry about the angle variations here?

 

[Patty]

They both look gorgeous.

I'd worry more about the bazillion pennies than the angles.

 

[quaeritur]

Oh, I also forgot to mention that the E, according to the vendor, really looks like a VS2. From all angles.

Both of them have blue fluor... the E is very strong, but not in a milky way. And by now, we all know blue fluor is a MUST for me!

...and '91 is the year my husband and I started dating.

The date on the cert is May 25, which is independence day in Argentina, where my mother is from.

SO, I'm a little attached to that stone. And hence incapable of judging it. Thanks so much for all your help. I'll pocket those (virtual for now)bazillion pennies and save 'em for a nice pair of earrings that maybe Wink will help me with when that time comes!

.

 

[kpebbles]

both look gorgeous! i think you already know what to do..
go for that E and don't look back. That's a lot of money to save!

 

[glitterata]

I agree with everybody, get the E. Who wouldn't want to save $1400? Plus, I like the strong fluorescence and the cleanness of the SI1.

The only thing I disagree with everybody about is the arrows. I prefer the beefy arrows. But then, my favorite cut is an OEC--you don't get beefier than that.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Quaritur
If you worry about the angle variation,maybe try to scan it on a different sarin machine you might get a tighter range ,i have a stone that went through 5 different machines and they all have different variations.

 

[Mara]

Hmmmm well IF IT WERE ME, I would wait for something better. Why? Because while what everyone else said was true about things like VG VG or the arrows looking hot, BUT I was just in your situation not too long ago choosing my new ering stone and that was so difficult! I help people find stones on here all the time telling people exactly what Wink and others told you about these stones, girdle nuances don't really matter that much, VG vs EX is not a big deal, etc.




But when it comes to your own purchase, all bets are off! I was obsessing about everything. Did I want to settle for VG EX or did it have to be EX EX. Was I okay with a 40.9 crown angle or did I have to stop at 40.8. What about 41.1? Girdle, fluor, diameter, etc etc. It all weighed in. In the end I am supremely happy with what I got, which was the EX EX, great angles, great diameter etc everything I wanted.




So if you can be a bit patient and wait, then see what else comes up. I do like the E but I am NOT keen on that VG VG regardless of whether you can see it or not. Also I am not loving the 62 and 62.5 depth. I try to keep it under 62. Then again that's just me. In the end you have to be 10000% happy with what you bought because you're going to be wearing it. Sounding from your original post you aren't entirely convinced yet, so then wait and see what happens.

My 2 cents!

 

[quaeritur]

Here is the IS image for the E stone... I wasn't able to get hearts images, which is where I think I might see some of the angle variances.

Mara, thanks for your post. I was thinking of you when I found this stone! I agree that the depth is more than ideal (though it still adds up to a 1A cut) but since I think it's all in the girdle, I don't mind as much as if it were in the crown, or worse, in the pavilion. Still, you really put your finger on what I've been feeling. It's just so hard to find great stones w/blue fluor! Sigh. I do wish Brian were around so I could get his opinion!

 

[quaeritur]

One other interesting thing about this stone... the specs definitely have some data entry errors. On WF's site, it's listed as 62.2 depth and negligible fluor... fortunately the sarin info is available as well. The only reason I even looked at it (since I've been searching for the blue fluor) is because it came up with such nice numbers when I ran the PS search by cut quality. And fortunately, those numbers are still nice when I put in the correct specs from the sarin!

.

 

[Jennifer5973]

I am going to play devil's advocate here (I've got the bullet-proof vest on--so I'm ready)...But can you really go wrong with either of these? I am not as educated as some about diamonds--I admit that--but how much of a difference will.03% depth make? (that is a serious question--not sarcasm). Maybe I am just lazy, or content with "Excellent" vs "Ideal"...and as with everything, only the person buying the stone can determne his/her thresholds...but I say, chooe one and start enjoying it! Life is too busy and too short!

 

[Mara]

Jen...Excellent *is* Ideal for the most part...different labs have different terminology. GIA is EX and AGS is ID as their best of the best.




But yes...whatever one chooses they must adore in the end. However Quaer's post reminds me of the agony I went through in decisions and I know that every little tiny thing seems to count when it's your thousands of $$ you are spending! It's easy to be super anal about this...so it can kind of go either way. Both stones look very nice, but I would always wonder...what if I waited!!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Phew Q, be careful not to walk anywhere with mosaic tiles!

You might step on a crack

You know this stuff inside out and you know you have selected 2 very beautiful diamonds.

Toss a coin, or ask a gypsie.

And sit back and enjoy.

(but do not drive a car and wear either of those diamonds for at least a month after purchase.)

 

[chrono]

Both diamonds look lovely but personally I would pick the E for all the same reasons everyone else has stated. Why pay more when they both look the same. The human eye can only see so much detail. There is nothing wrong with buying the cheaper diamond. I experienced the very same thing when shopping for my Jubilee. I had a budget of over $3000 but when I found a stunner that met all my specs but was a $1k cheaper, I suddenly got cold feet and fretful even though it was a steal. We have been ingrained by society that the more expensive item must be better. If it is cheap, something must be lacking. Let me tell you my new Jubilee isn't lacking anything. The same goes for the E you posted. Sometimes you have to accept that you have a deal in your hands and you had better take it before it slips away. Well, it is your decision and I'm sure you'll be very pleased with whichever you choose (or none).

I also noted you are interested in a tension setting. While I was shopping around on the internet, I noted that many tension setters will only set diamonds vs2 and above. Yours is a very clean SI1. Will this be a concern for a tension setting?

 

[pqcollectibles]

Sometimes we got so caught up in analyzing the numbers and seeking perfection that we forget there are many beautiful diamonds without "spot on" numbers. It doesn't have to be the "Super Duper Louper" to be a great diamond. You love the blue flour and that E is a great stone at a great price. Pocket the price difference and run.

 

[quaeritur]

Thanks Garry (I think!

), Chrono, and PQ! I appreciate your insight. You know what they say about a little knowledge being a dangerous thing... it can also make one slightly insane

. And it's also just different picking out MY perfect stone... I just didn't know it could be this stressful!

Chrono, I've run a couple of SI1s by Bruce Boone before, and he's been fine with them. As long as there aren't any large feathers and no open ones on the girdle, it should work out. I'll e-mail him the cert before finalizing anything, just to be safe though.

 

[g7adrian]

----------------
On 7/18/2004 10:57:07 PM Jennifer5973 wrote:

I am going to play devil's advocate here (I've got the bullet-proof vest on--so I'm ready)...But can you really go wrong with either of these? I am not as educated as some about diamonds--I admit that--but how much of a difference will.03% depth make? (that is a serious question--not sarcasm). Maybe I am just lazy, or content with 'Excellent' vs 'Ideal'...and as with everything, only the person buying the stone can determne his/her thresholds...but I say, chooe one and start enjoying it! Life is too busy and too short!

----------------

I am not knowledgeable about diamonds either, but my intuition tells me that even a 0.01% difference in depth can make a big difference in appearance. The light path in the diamond should change suddenly at a few very specific angles. If you are at a boundary angle, a difference in 0.01% can completely change the look of the diamond, whereas if you are in the middle of the range, a 0.1% may leave the appearance unaffected. Unfortunately, it is probably impossible to tell what are those specific angles where the appearance changes, because all angles and all facets must be considered.

If this intuition is correct, it makes sense to say that to choose a diamond without seeing it you should seek the angles to be in the middle of the allowable ranges, not at the boundary. A little measurement error in the middle should do nothing to the appearance. Or, you could look at IdealScope images to see on which side of the equation you are.

Diamond experts, does my intuition make sense?