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Will you ever consider a H(a) ruby?

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dm-smith

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 14, 2014
Messages
68
Hi PSers, been a while since the last time I post anything here. I am just curious, what do you think of a mong hsu ruby with faint clarity enhancement / H(a). It come with AGL old report with color rating of 2.5/75 R70 O15 P/Pk15 from the year of 2001.

I personally like the color and the clarity also descent. However, the H(a) is pretty conflicting. I always buy unheated or H corundum. what do you think?
 
dm-smith said:
Hi PSers, been a while since the last time I post anything here. I am just curious, what do you think of a mong hsu ruby with faint clarity enhancement / H(a). It come with AGL old report with color rating of 2.5/75 R70 O15 P/Pk15 from the year of 2001.

I personally like the color and the clarity also descent. However, the H(a) is pretty conflicting. I always buy unheated or H corundum. what do you think?
Click to expand...

Personally I will buy a H(a) ruby with right colour, indeed have one, though bear in mind it is not as valuable as no-heat or heat-only stone. H(a) enhancement is considered to be permanent with no effect on stone stability, with residue filling fissures only. I could be wrong but it may even be result of heating in furnace where borax was previously added, but not for the stone in question.

Link to GRS enhancement codes for your reference:

Gemstone Enhancement Disclosure -

Understand the different terminology for gemstone treatments and enhancements found in our GRS Reports
www.gemresearch.ch www.gemresearch.ch
 
I would and wouldn't have issue with it. But I'm not a purist and I don't insist on everything I own being untreated. My jewellery is for me to enjoy, literally no one cares about it anyway.

The reality is borax heating is becoming more and more prevalent. Greenland rubies are all heated with borax to bring them to market. Practically everything that comes out of Myanmar right now is from Mong Hsu, and practically everything from Mong Hsu is heated with borax. If you want untreated Burmese ruby, you more or less have to go in search of the elusive Mogok ruby which fetches eye watering prices. I've been seeing Thai rubies with residues more and more often on vendors' pages. At this point it seems that if one were set on a heat only ruby, they'll have to stick with the African ones.

And the prices between heat only and heat with residues aren't that different either. Personal perception is one thing, to the individual a heat only stone could be significantly more valuable compared to a stone that has insignificant or minor residues. But the market doesn't care, and more and more often treats heated and heated with residues as the same thing. Stones get advertised as "heated", their published lab reports state residues and no one bats an eye, and you can be sure those stones are being sold for heat only prices.

When I was in the process of buying a ruby myself, someone here on PS wrote that when they were working with Inken she told them that no sane jeweller will ever guarantee that a Burmese ruby is heat only because borax has become such an integral part of the heating process for Burmese rubies. Things simply boil down to, this is what's on the market, this is what's available. The rest is up to you to decide - will this be a mind clean purchase for you? Will it bother you that the stone has received additional treatment other than heating? People keep saying, buy to enjoy, but if you won't enjoy it, then there's no sense in buying it.
 
2.5/75 from AGL is the gold standard for perfect ruby color. If clarity is M1 or better, you are looking at a unicorn.

I prefer unheated, but with such color I would certainly consider it.

Do you have any pictures? Easier to give an opinion.
 
Avondale said:
I would and wouldn't have issue with it. But I'm not a purist and I don't insist on everything I own being untreated. My jewellery is for me to enjoy, literally no one cares about it anyway.

The reality is borax heating is becoming more and more prevalent. Greenland rubies are all heated with borax to bring them to market. Practically everything that comes out of Myanmar right now is from Mong Hsu, and practically everything from Mong Hsu is heated with borax. If you want untreated Burmese ruby, you more or less have to go in search of the elusive Mogok ruby which fetches eye watering prices. I've been seeing Thai rubies with residues more and more often on vendors' pages. At this point it seems that if one were set on a heat only ruby, they'll have to stick with the African ones.

And the prices between heat only and heat with residues aren't that different either. Personal perception is one thing, to the individual a heat only stone could be significantly more valuable compared to a stone that has insignificant or minor residues. But the market doesn't care, and more and more often treats heated and heated with residues as the same thing. Stones get advertised as "heated", their published lab reports state residues and no one bats an eye, and you can be sure those stones are being sold for heat only prices.

When I was in the process of buying a ruby myself, someone here on PS wrote that when they were working with Inken she told them that no sane jeweller will ever guarantee that a Burmese ruby is heat only because borax has become such an integral part of the heating process for Burmese rubies. Things simply boil down to, this is what's on the market, this is what's available. The rest is up to you to decide - will this be a mind clean purchase for you? Will it bother you that the stone has received additional treatment other than heating? People keep saying, buy to enjoy, but if you won't enjoy it, then there's no sense in buying it.
Click to expand...

Very well written, thank you
 
Thanks a lot for all the opinion


VividRed said:
2.5/75 from AGL is the gold standard for perfect ruby color. If clarity is M1 or better, you are looking at a unicorn.

I prefer unheated, but with such color I would certainly consider it.

Do you have any pictures? Easier to give an opinion.
Click to expand...
I will be visiting the dealer again next week, I will take some pictures. He also another H(a) with color grade 2.0/75 from AGL but the price is 15k pct almost triple the 2.5/75 one.

Honestly, I really want a mozambique with similar color, but cant find one. Most of the mozambique ruby are either garnet like or not red enough for my taste. I have seen more than 10 mozambique ruby with GRS 1st page pigeon blood, but they are all not red enough. That mong hsu 2.5/75 ruby is the first one that i like and within my budget.
 
dm-smith said:
Thanks a lot for all the opinion



I will be visiting the dealer again next week, I will take some pictures. He also another H(a) with color grade 2.0/75 from AGL but the price is 15k pct almost triple the 2.5/75 one.

Honestly, I really want a mozambique with similar color, but cant find one. Most of the mozambique ruby are either garnet like or not red enough for my taste. I have seen more than 10 mozambique ruby with GRS 1st page pigeon blood, but they are all not red enough. That mong hsu 2.5/75 ruby is the first one that i like and within my budget.
Click to expand...

Yes, well, 2.5/75 is the closest definition of pigeon’s blood red. AGL is probably the only lab that never used that name but gave a tool to identify one. Very, very rare. 2/75 is even rarer, I have never seen one, but that explains the price difference despite the treatment.

I am extremely picky as well and while I own a few unheated rubies, the closest I got to the perfect ruby is a 1ct unheated mogok piece that scored 3/75-80 with AGL. Very beautiful but not quite there yet. I have one from Mong Hsu that I like even more (3.5/75-80) but still not the perfect ruby.

Sadly, it would cost me north of 50k to get what I *want* but am not willing to spend that much on a single, carat sized stone just yet :)
 
No.
 
I would buy a Ruby with that treatment. I can’t afford an unheated stone and with the prevalence of borax treatment, I am fine with minor residue, provided the appearance and color and pleasing, the treatment disclosed and lab verified, and the price is fair.
 
Bron357 said:
Now I want to see a 3 / 75 ruby to compare mine.
I wish I was brave enough to send it to AGL.
IMG_7205.jpeg
Click to expand...

Comparing your and @VividRed ’s rubies, the colours look very close, beautiful.

GRS seem to have a generous spectrum of “pigeon blood” description, AGL doesn’t use it but anything 3.5 and under seem to be ballpark for GRS “pigeon blood”. GIA seems to be much stricter in giving out Vivid/pigeon blood red description..,
 
So now I’m very curious about what a magical 2 / 75 looks like.
My phone doesn’t do a great job of matching what the eye sees, especially in low light.IMG_0057.jpeg
 
Sounds top-notch, and at that price-point it ought to be, with "of strong saturation" on the SSEF (seems like these are almost always "moderately strong," at least for sapphire) and "pigeon's blood"/"vivid red" on GIA and GRS.

The color in the photo is not that appealing to me but I bet it's exceptional in person.

This one also has the super-wonky pavilion (am I confusing this with another thread?) but at least you can see pavilion facets through the crown in other photos.

Screen Shot 2024-11-02 at 11.43.02 PM.png
 
LilAlex said:
Sounds top-notch, and at that price-point it ought to be, with "of strong saturation" on the SSEF (seems like these are almost always "moderately strong," at least for sapphire) and "pigeon's blood"/"vivid red" on GIA and GRS.

The color in the photo is not that appealing to me but I bet it's exceptional in person.

This one also has the super-wonky pavilion (am I confusing this with another thread?) but at least you can see pavilion facets through the crown in other photos.

Screen Shot 2024-11-02 at 11.43.02 PM.png
Click to expand...

Nope, it’s different from the ones I posted earlier. Filthy expensive, and too dark a colour for my liking even if I could afford it.
 
LilAlex said:
Sounds top-notch, and at that price-point it ought to be, with "of strong saturation" on the SSEF (seems like these are almost always "moderately strong," at least for sapphire) and "pigeon's blood"/"vivid red" on GIA and GRS.

The color in the photo is not that appealing to me but I bet it's exceptional in person.

This one also has the super-wonky pavilion (am I confusing this with another thread?) but at least you can see pavilion facets through the crown in other photos.

Screen Shot 2024-11-02 at 11.43.02 PM.png
Click to expand...

My guess, and it’s only a guess, is that if that ruby was sent to AGL, it would be 3/80-85. It is very red, no pink, on the darker side of medium-dark. Probably LI 2 hence the price. It could cost twice as much if lighter, then again at these prices anything goes.

Again, just guessing, I am not in the trade
 
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