Wolf/CBI is a new PS sponsor now.

[Dancing Fire]

 

[MollyMalone]

And here's the website:

Wolf | CBI ™

wolfcbi.com

You'll see that their showroom is in Houston, TX -- which means that those who live in the Houston area or visit there can now see the "super ideal" diamonds offered by Wolf|CBI, Whiteflash, and Brian Gavin.

 

[cflutist]

Yay, happy to see @Wink and his gorgeous CBI diamonds are back.

 

[daisygrl]

Their prices are quite higher than WF or BG though. I am not sure why.

 

[MollyMalone]

Yay, happy to see @Wink and his gorgeous CBI diamonds are back.

Oops, I now realize I should have noted in my previous post that you'll see Wink is the Senior Vice-President of Wolf|CBI. His current High Performance Diamonds website now mirrors the Wolf|CBI website.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Their prices are quite higher than WF or BG though. I am not sure why.

Having three different grading reports adds to the price for one thing. But possibly CBI is still marketing their stones through jewelry stores, and the markup there is usually higher than primarily online vendors.

Congrats to Wolf and Wink and best wishes to them!

 

[Decision_Decisions]

That's wonderful news! Is anyone willing to share how this news and rebranding affects their willingness to work with Wolf|CBI going forward? Does this give people the confidence that the business and policies are secure and that the upgrade potential will be there for decades to come? Or is there still uncertainty over potential legal issues? I know that there are many die hard fans who own CBI's through Wink and would of course not hesitate to purchase again. I'm interested though to hear thoughts from buyers that have not worked with HPD in the past or are considering their first super ideal.

 

[daisygrl]

That's wonderful news! Is anyone willing to share how this news and rebranding affects their willingness to work with Wolf|CBI going forward? Does this give people the confidence that the business and policies are secure and that the upgrade potential will be there for decades to come? Or is there still uncertainty over potential legal issues? I know that there are many die hard fans who own CBI's through Wink and would of course not hesitate to purchase again. I'm interested though to hear thoughts from buyers that have not worked with HPD in the past or are considering their first super ideal.

I am not the first time buyer but I can share my experience as that has changed a bit. I believe in integrity of CBI and HPD 100%. Their stones are exceptional and so is service. However, when I have recently inquired about my intent to upgrade with them, I noticed incredible price difference compared to their competitors: VC, BG, or WF. I am talking about $12,000+ price difference for similar color/size/clarity stones. I am well aware, now, that I will not be able to upgrade with them because of it.

Whether their polices are relevant and intact for decades to come, no one will have an answer to that. Given Wink's age, someone else would have to take over HPD - someone who would honor past policies of HPD.

 

[Decision_Decisions]

I am not the first time buyer but I can share my experience as that has changed a bit. I believe in integrity of CBI and HPD 100%. Their stones are exceptional and so is service. However, when I have recently inquired about my intent to upgrade with them, I noticed incredible price difference compared to their competitors: VC, BG, or WF. I am talking about $12,000+ price difference for similar color/size/clarity stones. I am well aware, now, that I will not be able to upgrade with them because of it.

Whether their polices are relevant and intact for decades to come, no one will have an answer to that. Given Wink's age, someone else would have to take over HPD - someone who would

Thank you for sharing your story. I'm sorry to hear that the price difference is going to make upgrading difficult or impossible. I do think that is something to keep in mind long term, as for myself at least I don't know how big or white I will eventually be able to justify going, but I would hate to find that the prices are so much higher once I got to that point. Of course any policies or price structures could certainly change over the course of decades, so all we have to go off of is how things are now.

 

[distracts]

I am not the first time buyer but I can share my experience as that has changed a bit. I believe in integrity of CBI and HPD 100%. Their stones are exceptional and so is service. However, when I have recently inquired about my intent to upgrade with them, I noticed incredible price difference compared to their competitors: VC, BG, or WF. I am talking about $12,000+ price difference for similar color/size/clarity stones. I am well aware, now, that I will not be able to upgrade with them because of it.

Whether their polices are relevant and intact for decades to come, no one will have an answer to that. Given Wink's age, someone else would have to take over HPD - someone who would honor past policies of HPD.

Is this price difference really that different than it used to be for similar-sized stones though? CBIs have always been, as far as I can remember, significantly enough more expensive that a lot of people choose to go with another ideal-cut vendor instead just due to cost. Just pulling a number out of a hat, I wouldn't be surprised if they are regularly 15-20% more expensive, and with triple-certing I don't see that price gap reversing any time soon.

 

[daisygrl]

Is this price difference really that different than it used to be for similar-sized stones though? CBIs have always been, as far as I can remember, significantly enough more expensive that a lot of people choose to go with another ideal-cut vendor instead just due to cost. Just pulling a number out of a hat, I wouldn't be surprised if they are regularly 15-20% more expensive, and with triple-certing I don't see that price gap reversing any time soon.

Actually, the $12,000 price difference they quoted me was for a slightly smaller (.20ct smaller) stone than the stones sold by their competitors (same color/clarity). I was disappointed and in disbelief. Their stones are truly beautiful. Are they $12-15,000 more beautiful? Not to me.

 

[Wink]

Whether their polices are relevant and intact for decades to come, no one will have an answer to that. Given Wink's age, someone else would have to take over HPD - someone who would honor past policies of HPD.

One of the key reasons I accepted the Sr Vice President role at Wolf CBI is that the parent company, Wolf Diamonds, is a very well financed company with some brilliant people working together to create a business atmosphere that I approve of and believe in.

My accepting the Senior Vice Presidency has guaranteed me that I can count on my successor being of excellent moral character and client oriented. It also allows me to state with complete confidence that we are honoring the upgrades and buybacks promised to Wink's former clients, as they are now current clients of WolfCBI.

Wink

 

[MollyMalone]

Do think it's odd, and surprising, that -- unlike the websites of all the other "PriceScope Vetted Vendors" currently listed here

Featured Sponsors

VENDORS & ADVERTISERS VENDORS & ADVERTISERS PriceScope Vetted Vendors and Advertisers As the world’s largest diamond and jewelry community, PriceScope is a place where many would like to advertise and […]

www.pricescope.com

-- there are no policies spelled out on the Wolf|CBI website. The only web pages so far are Home, Diamonds, and FAQ. When you go to the FAQ page, there are no Questions and Answers. The best there is re policies are the 3 bullet points that appear -- without any further information -- on the slide embedded in the video of Wink that's in the Peace of Mind box on the "FAQ" page:

• 100% Lifetime Trade-Up Guarantee
• 21 Day [Wink as narrator adds "no questions asked") Full Refund Policy
• Industry Leading Buy Back Program

Wolf | CBI ™

wolfcbi.com

@Wink , the video re Grunberger Diamonds, highlighting the fact it's your source for melee & why, is a terrific plus imo (my late father-in-law, who was in the diamond trade here in NYC, thought highly of Grunberger & I've touted them here on PS). But I hope the website soon includes details on information -- presented in a way that we can read & save for future reference -- that many (if not all) of us consumers deem important to know.

 

[uyalison]

@daisygrl​

wow! could it be a mis-quote? or maybe a cut-to-order is supposed to be more expensive than inventory. Hopefully CBI will have something in the size that you are looking for in their inventory in the not too far future. Right now there are only 3 in the 2.4ct+.

 

[distracts]

Do think it's odd, and surprising, that -- unlike the websites of all the other "PriceScope Vetted Vendors" currently listed here

Featured Sponsors

VENDORS & ADVERTISERS VENDORS & ADVERTISERS PriceScope Vetted Vendors and Advertisers As the world’s largest diamond and jewelry community, PriceScope is a place where many would like to advertise and […]

www.pricescope.com

-- there are no policies spelled out on the Wolf|CBI website. The only web pages so far are Home, Diamonds, and FAQ. When you go to the FAQ page, there are no Questions and Answers. The best there is re policies are the 3 bullet points that appear -- without any further information -- on the slide embedded in the video of Wink that's in the Peace of Mind box on the "FAQ" page:

• 100% Lifetime Trade-Up Guarantee
• 21 Day [Wink as narrator adds "no questions asked") Full Refund Policy
• Industry Leading Buy Back Program

Wolf | CBI ™

wolfcbi.com

@Wink , the video re Grunberger Diamonds, highlighting the fact it's your source for melee & why, is a terrific plus imo (my late father-in-law, who was in the diamond trade here in NYC, thought highly of Grunberger & I've touted them here on PS). But I hope the website soon includes details on information -- presented in a way that we can read & save for future reference -- that many (if not all) of us consumers deem important to know.

Yeah, I rarely watch videos online because it takes me ten times longer to watch a video than to read a webpage.

 

[Dancing Fire]

@daisygrl​

wow! could it be a mis-quote? or maybe a cut-to-order is supposed to be more expensive than inventory. Hopefully CBI will have something in the size that you are looking for in their inventory in the not too far future. Right now there are only 3 in the 2.4ct+.

Hopefully we'll see some more 3+ct soon.

 

[chamois]

Hopefully we'll see some more 3+ct soon.

I hope so too.

 

[Wink]

Do think it's odd, and surprising, that -- unlike the websites of all the other "PriceScope Vetted Vendors" currently listed here

Dear MollyMalone,

Excellent question and I did not want to answer until I was sure the FAQ was in fact, working again. As a new site, we are constantly upgrading and making improvements. Our FAQ was indeed offline last evening and I have just confirmed that as of one minute ago it is now back online.

Wink

 

[whitewave]

This is very exciting! Congratulations to everyone involved!

 

[Karl_K]

congrates!!!!!!!!!

 

[Txborn79]

As far as pricing, they’ve always been a little higher than WF and to me it looks close to the same as before. Wonder if the 10-15% more was because it would be custom cut, which I believe WF also has a premium for custom cut.

For example, 2.05 G VS1 (but AGS is listed as an F which would be what WF would list it as) CBI is $31,829 https://hpdiamonds.com/diamonds/88

2.007 VS1 F ACA is $30,244

Diamond | 2.007 ct F VS1 Expert Selection Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4149994

This fabulous 2.007 carat Round Ideal cut diamond has a clarity grade of VS1 and color grade of F.It is an excellent choice for engagement rings. | 4149994

www.whiteflash.com

A difference of ~5%

 

[Gussie]

As far as pricing, they’ve always been a little higher than WF and to me it looks close to the same as before. Wonder if the 10-15% more was because it would be custom cut, which I believe WF also has a premium for custom cut.

For example, 2.05 G VS1 (but AGS is listed as an F which would be what WF would list it as) CBI is $31,829 https://hpdiamonds.com/diamonds/88

2.007 VS1 F ACA is $30,244

Diamond | 2.007 ct F VS1 Expert Selection Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4149994

This fabulous 2.007 carat Round Ideal cut diamond has a clarity grade of VS1 and color grade of F.It is an excellent choice for engagement rings. | 4149994

www.whiteflash.com

A difference of ~5%

This is actually a really large difference considering the WF stone is a color grade higher.

 

[lovedogs]

This is actually a really large difference considering the WF stone is a color grade higher.

Not a color grade higher according to AGS. Ags rated the same color

 

[Gussie]

Not a color grade higher according to AGS. Ags rated the same color

Oops, sorry! I should probably look closely at both stones before I post so that I know what I'm talking about!

 

[sledge]

As far as pricing, they’ve always been a little higher than WF and to me it looks close to the same as before. Wonder if the 10-15% more was because it would be custom cut, which I believe WF also has a premium for custom cut.

For example, 2.05 G VS1 (but AGS is listed as an F which would be what WF would list it as) CBI is $31,829 https://hpdiamonds.com/diamonds/88

2.007 VS1 F ACA is $30,244

Diamond | 2.007 ct F VS1 Expert Selection Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4149994

This fabulous 2.007 carat Round Ideal cut diamond has a clarity grade of VS1 and color grade of F.It is an excellent choice for engagement rings. | 4149994

www.whiteflash.com

A difference of ~5%

Agree that CBI's seemed to carry a slight premium in the older days. I also recall a period where pricing seemed to equalize a little closer to WF also.

The real question here is the color grading. The CBI was GIA G (or AGS F). If we didn't have triple reports with CBI, we would more appropriately say that stone was a "low F" as they did previously only grade with AGS.

The secondary question would be if the WF ES 2.007 F-VS1 you found is also a "low F" or exactly where it sits. If it's an average or high F, then I think GIA would have likely graded F as well and then we'd be comparing apples & oranges.

It's hard to say for sure without more analysis, but there is a possibility this scenario might be a more fair comparison, where there is closer to a 9.4% variance.

One thing is certain, multiple reports has provided more information and also caused some confusion in comparing stones as well.

WF ACA 2.026 G-VS1 @ $28,745

Diamond | 2.026 ct G VS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4396558

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 2.026 carat G color VS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4396558

www.whiteflash.com

Adjusted for slightly larger size:
$28,745 / 2.026 = 14,188.06 x 2.05 = $29,085.51 / $31,829 = 1.094

 

[Txborn79]

I have a question and want to see if anyone knows the answer. Does Whiteflash actually cut their own diamonds like cbi or do they pick through what’s available and rebrand, similar to what JA does with their TH brand?

This is the only thing I could find on their website and it sounds more like they rebrand

The A CUT ABOVE® is our internationally recognized brand of Super Ideal Cut diamonds, Round and Princess. They are the "best of the best" in terms of cut craftsmanship and light performance, possessing brilliance and fire at the limits of what is technically possible. To achieve the A CUT ABOVE® pedigree a diamond must first be certified by the AGS Laboratory as Triple Ideal with a Platinum Certificate. It must then pass an extensive series of further evaluations by the Whiteflash review team before being branded A CUT ABOVE®.

 

[Decision_Decisions]

Agree that CBI's seemed to carry a slight premium in the older days. I also recall a period where pricing seemed to equalize a little closer to WF also.

The real question here is the color grading. The CBI was GIA G (or AGS F). If we didn't have triple reports with CBI, we would more appropriately say that stone was a "low F" as they did previously only grade with AGS.

The secondary question would be if the WF ES 2.007 F-VS1 you found is also a "low F" or exactly where it sits. If it's an average or high F, then I think GIA would have likely graded F as well and then we'd be comparing apples & oranges.

It's hard to say for sure without more analysis, but there is a possibility this scenario might be a more fair comparison, where there is closer to a 9.4% variance.

One thing is certain, multiple reports has provided more information and also caused some confusion in comparing stones as well.

WF ACA 2.026 G-VS1 @ $28,745

Diamond | 2.026 ct G VS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4396558

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 2.026 carat G color VS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4396558

www.whiteflash.com

Adjusted for slightly larger size:
$28,745 / 2.026 = 14,188.06 x 2.05 = $29,085.51 / $31,829 = 1.094

I agree that there is some confusion related to the multiple reports. I am looking at lower color stones and a high percentage of the stones came back one grade lower between AGS to GIA. Granted the sample size is small, but it makes me wonder. If CBI is pricing based on GIA color and that information isn't available for other super ideal vendors it does seem to be difficult to compare price between vendors.

 

[sledge]

I agree that there is some confusion related to the multiple reports. I am looking at lower color stones and a high percentage of the stones came back one grade lower between AGS to GIA. Granted the sample size is small, but it makes me wonder. If CBI is pricing based on GIA color and that information isn't available for other super ideal vendors it does seem to be difficult to compare price between vendors.

One of the interesting things I noticed when Wolf/HPD started doing triple reports a few months back is that quite a few GIA and AGS color grades match. Like you, I have heard that AGS can be softer on color grades but having more data to pull from I am not as convinced.

Also from what I understand of AGS grading is they utilize a master set of stones from GIA to grade color.

Additionally even GIA states that +/- one grade difference is within acceptable tolerance. So it’s plausible a stone goes to GIA and gets graded F-VS2 one time and the second may come back as G-VS2.

Furthermore, each color has a range variance where it may favor closer to a higher or lower color grade. And lastly you have humans performing the grading.

All elements combined and it’s amazing they so accurately grade color even if they have the occasional one grade difference. Just a pure guess but I would venture those differences are due to range & human interpretation of a stone that is on the border.

 

[denverappraiser]

Congratulations Wink.

 

[distracts]

One of the interesting things I noticed when Wolf/HPD started doing triple reports a few months back is that quite a few GIA and AGS color grades match. Like you, I have heard that AGS can be softer on color grades but having more data to pull from I am not as convinced.

Also from what I understand of AGS grading is they utilize a master set of stones from GIA to grade color.

Additionally even GIA states that +/- one grade difference is within acceptable tolerance. So it’s plausible a stone goes to GIA and gets graded F-VS2 one time and the second may come back as G-VS2.

Furthermore, each color has a range variance where it may favor closer to a higher or lower color grade. And lastly you have humans performing the grading.

All elements combined and it’s amazing they so accurately grade color even if they have the occasional one grade difference. Just a pure guess but I would venture those differences are due to range & human interpretation of a stone that is on the border.

It looks like around 30% of the AGS stones are softer one color grade... but around 30% of the GIA stones are softer on clarity, sometimes even 2 clarity grades different. It's definitely interesting to look at.