Would a clear yet visible crystal inclusion acceptable?

[Madsal]

Hi everyone,

In my other thread I have been posting my journey to find the right diamond to propose. I have been looking for a 2ct stone and due to culture and my gf's sensitivity to color we have agreed to find diamond within the colorles range or up to G color. Clarity is at the bottom of her priority. Ideally my budget is $20k to $25k.

After looking for a while and asking for ppl's advices, I spoke to my friend who just upgraded his wife's ring. He showed me some photos and a video of the diamond. A Super ideal cut, icy white E color that is so white it has some blue hue to it. Whilst it is an SI2, it is definitely one of the sparkliest diamond I have ever seen (I will try to ask him to send me a link of the video). From the video, I'd never guess that it's an SI2. He said the diamond is very beautiful in real life. The inclusion is a clear crystal that is eye visible up close but will dissapear beyond a certain distance and he thinks no one would be looking at the ring at such a close distance to notice the inclusion anyway.

My question is what do you think of getting an SI clarity diamond with a clear crystal inclusion that is eye visible at a certain distance? Would you notice such inclusion in other people's ring? Or have you noticed a clear crystal inclusion in other people's ring?

 

[Bron357]

What you really need is the GIA report (don’t go buying any diamond at your price point without one) so you can see the inclusions type and where they are located.
Clear inclusions can be feathers. Feathers are a fancy name for a crack. This is a disturbance to the crystalline structure and can have an impact on the diamonds durability. A surface reaching feather or one too close to the girdle (that’s the edge) or the diamonds cutlet (point at the bottom) can cause the diamond to chip or break if the diamond is accidentally bumped hard enough.
So inclusions aren’t just about how they look to the eye, it’s also about how they can affect the diamonds durability.
You should have the diamond examined by a diamond grader before purchase so that any flaws or factors that might affect its durability are noted. You also want confirmation that the diamond is not “clarity enhanced”, this is not a good process, it vastly undermines the diamonds structure. What it is is that the flaws or carbon specs have been drilled / burnt out by a laser. Sure it’s only a microscopic drill hole or holes but you do not want any of these in a diamond you are wearing as a ring.

 

[Dancing Fire]

After looking for a while and asking for ppl's advices, I spoke to my friend who just upgraded his wife's ring. He showed me some photos and a video of the diamond. A Super ideal cut, icy white E color that is so white it has some blue hue to it. Whilst it is an SI2, it is definitely one of the sparkliest diamond I have ever seen

3 Qs...Where did he buy the stone? graded by GIA or AGS lab? what size is the stone?

 

[Dancing Fire]

Give Wink a call.
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD9154

 

[Madsal]

3 Qs...Where did he buy the stone? graded by GIA or AGS lab? what size is the stone?

He bought it at a local store that sells super ideal diamond for convenience purposes. It's slightly above 2ct and graded by AGS.

Thanks also for the recommendation. Would love to get her a CBI diamond but for convenience purposes I might purchase through a local store that sells super ideal diamond which my friend purchased his diamond from. A video of the diamond is attached in the next post. Pls advise your thought

 

[Madsal]

**removed at request of OP** What do you think of the stone and inclusion? From my untrained eyes it looks very beautiful and sparkly I would probably get a similar spec (yet with lower color in order to fit my budget). Since you guys are the expert and if you think this level of inclusion is still acceptable I will contact the vendor to find me another beautiful SI stone

Any advice would be highly appreciated

 

[Dancing Fire]

He bought it at a local store that sells super ideal diamond for convenience purposes. It's slightly above 2ct and graded by AGS.

Hard to tell from the video, but it is a good sign that he bought an AGS graded stone.

 

[TreeScientist]

Did your friend purchase from JannPaul? That looks like a JannPaul video.

 

[Madsal]

@TreeScientist Yes he did purchase from them Are you from Singapore?

Did your friend purchase from JannPaul? That looks like a JannPaul video.

 

[Madsal]

@Dancing Fire thanks for your feedback. so generally a super ideal cut with SI2 clarity graded by AGS should be quite acceptable ya?

Hard to tell from the video, but it is a good sign that he bought an AGS graded stone.

 

[icy_jade]

@Dancing Fire thanks for your feedback. so generally a super ideal cut with SI2 clarity graded by AGS should be quite acceptable ya?

Will not be acceptable to me... I’ll look for eye clean diamond.

Curious as I’m also looking at diamonds. How does JP pricing compare to equivalent Whiteflash ACA or HPD CBI diamonds?

 

[Dancing Fire]

@Dancing Fire thanks for your feedback. so generally a super ideal cut with SI2 clarity graded by AGS should be quite acceptable ya?

You'll have to decide for yourself since you saw the stone IRL.

 

[Madsal]

@icy_jade Can you see the inclusion from the video? do you think it's not acceptable?

To be honest I have not gone to JP yet although i am planning to this weekend. I will update you with prices once I have some quote from them.

Will not be acceptable to me... I’ll look for eye clean diamond.

Curious as I’m also looking at diamonds. How does JP pricing compare to equivalent Whiteflash ACA or HPD CBI diamonds?

 

[TreeScientist]

I can see the white crystal at the edge of the table fairly easily in the video, but the diamond is otherwise crystal clear. I think that crystal would not be noticeable under most circumstances, but only you can decide if something like that would bother you or not. That's why it's important to see lower clarity diamonds in person to decide how bothersome the inclusions are to you. Personally, I would rather have an SI2 like this one with a large clear crystal, rather than an SI2 with a lot of clouds or twinning wisps. Better to have a beautiful diamond with a single crystal rather than a cloudy diamond lacking in transparency.

A few other people here on PS have purchased from JannPaul and have had good experiences with them. I think their prices are fair in the realm of SuperIdeals after accounting for the 7% GST in Singapore, but you should check for yourself. Get a quote on a few diamonds that interest you from them and then look up the prices of similarly-spec'd diamonds from WF, HPD, BGD, etc.

 

[icy_jade]

@icy_jade Can you see the inclusion from the video? do you think it's not acceptable?

To be honest I have not gone to JP yet although i am planning to this weekend. I will update you with prices once I have some quote from them.

Oh pls do - I’m still debating if I should pop by.

Re: the inclusion, it’s on/near the surface so it’s very eye catching? But then some people may not be bothered by it. I’ll rather go down in color and up in clarity if the blemish is so obvious but that’s just me.

 

[Madsal]

@TreeScientist you said it right. I think the transparency is the thing that drawn me into the stone despite having a large clear crystal that may be seen up close.
I asked my friend and he said the video is magnified so it's easier to see the inclusion in the video than IRL. And you'll get distracted with all the sparkle you will hardly notice the inclusion. I am planning a dinner with him and his wife to see the ring in person (or probably lunch would be better to get a clearer view of the ring) to see how easy it is to spot the inclusion.

Btw, did you see the 2nd part of the video where the diamond turned into a fireball?

Yes, would definitely get quotation from JP and compare them to ACA, BGD and HPD although after speaking with my friend I have preference to get it from JP as well.

@icy_jade the problem is with my budget and wanting a 2ct stone. I would need to go down in color to an H in order to afford a VS2. Last time me and my gf went to a HOF store and she could even see the yellow tint in a 1.5 ct G diamond even after we went out of the store to see the color under the sun. So I don't dare going down the color to an H. I am still contemplating though..

 

[TreeScientist]

@TreeScientist you said it right. I think the transparency is the thing that drawn me into the stone despite having a large clear crystal that may be seen up close.
I asked my friend and he said the video is magnified so it's easier to see the inclusion in the video than IRL. I am planning a dinner with him and his wife to see the ring in person (or probably lunch would be better to get a clearer view of the ring) to see how easy it is to spot the inclusion.

Btw, did you see the 2nd part of the video where the diamond turned into a fireball?

Yes, would definitely get quotation from JP and compare them to ACA, BGD and HPD although after speaking with my friend I have preference to get it from JP as well.

In your situation I think buying from JP would be an excellent idea, as long as their prices are fairly close to the American SuperIdeal vendors. Nothing like being able to see diamonds in person before deciding.

 

[OoohShiny]

He bought it at a local store that sells super ideal diamond for convenience purposes. It's slightly above 2ct and graded by AGS.

Thanks also for the recommendation. Would love to get her a CBI diamond but for convenience purposes I might purchase through a local store that sells super ideal diamond which my friend purchased his diamond from. A video of the diamond is attached in the next post. Pls advise your thought

Regardless of the PS-recommended online vendor used, I don't know what's more convenient than buying online from the comfort of your sofa and having a diamond delivered to your door by courier!

 

[TreeScientist]

Regardless of the PS-recommended online vendor used, I don't know what's more convenient than buying online from the comfort of your sofa and having a diamond delivered to your door by courier!

While I agree that online shopping is super convenient if you're buying in-country, you need to remember that the OP lives in Singapore. Buying online from overseas can be a major PITA, especially if you need to return the diamond because you don't like it.

 

[Madsal]

@OoohShiny I would totally agree with you if it's about buying electronic or something that's generic. But for a diamond? I need to see IRL. Especially since I'm not in the US, returning it back if I don't like the stone I purchase would be quite a hassle and would incur GST, shipping and insurance fee..

But again I'm still open to buying online although it's not my preference at themoment

Regardless of the PS-recommended online vendor used, I don't know what's more convenient than buying online from the comfort of your sofa and having a diamond delivered to your door by courier!

 

[OoohShiny]

While I agree that online shopping is super convenient if you're buying in-country, you need to remember that the OP lives in Singapore. Buying online from overseas can be a major PITA, especially if you need to return the diamond because you don't like it.

True, true...

I hadn't seen the part that he was in Singapore - Jann Paul would seem to be the go-to option in that case!

Just need to make sure prices are compared to the PS-recommended vendors, to make sure they are broadly in line (although probably with an uplift to take account of being a Bricks&Mortar store).

 

[OoohShiny]

@OoohShiny I would totally agree with you if it's about buying electronic or something that's generic. But for a diamond? I need to see IRL. Especially since I'm not in the US, returning it back if I don't like the stone I purchase would be quite a hassle and would incur GST, shipping and insurance fee..

But again I'm still open to buying online although it's not my preference at themoment

Fair comments!

Having had concerns myself when buying online the only diamond I've bought to date, I wouldn't hesitate to do it again

 

[gm89uk]

My strategy with diamonds echoes your friends thinking, I think that's a nice SI2 and would definitely not be obvious in real life, though I don't think it'll completely eye clean, it's a great compromise for budget,carat,size.

 

[icy_jade]

@OoohShiny I would totally agree with you if it's about buying electronic or something that's generic. But for a diamond? I need to see IRL. Especially since I'm not in the US, returning it back if I don't like the stone I purchase would be quite a hassle and would incur GST, shipping and insurance fee..

But again I'm still open to buying online although it's not my preference at themoment

I completely understand why... buying online is daunting when returns are a pain from here. That said with ACA and CBI diamonds I think the analysis pics provide sufficient info... RBs are a lot less temperamental vs shapes like pears for example. Anyway I’ll update in a month plus with my thoughts on a CBI if my US trip goes as planned.

FWIW I popped by JP today and looked at some diamonds. Can’t get a handle on pricing as they only have VS and above clarity. You may need to special order in lower clarity - pls let me know if that’s possible. Also i looked at F, G, H and H was pretty obviously yellowish tinge under normal lighting. I think I was fine with G. But to be honest I was so tired I think I maybe should re do the test with more comparable diamonds.

An ideal cut G did face up whiter than a normal G to me... but I think it wasn’t a good comparison as the CS showed me a strong blue fluoro vs a none fluoro ideal. But I’m glad she did cos I found out that love fluoro lol. I may go back and do a more thorough comparison when I’m less frazzled from work.

Still think a non eye clean inclusion will bug me but if your friend is happy that’s all that matters.

 

[OoohShiny]

I completely understand why... buying online is daunting when returns are a pain from here. That said with ACA and CBI diamonds I think the analysis pics provide sufficient info... RBs are a lot less temperamental vs shapes like pears for example. Anyway I’ll update in a month plus with my thoughts on a CBI if my US trip goes as planned.

FWIW I popped by JP today and looked at some diamonds. Can’t get a handle on pricing as they only have VS and above clarity. You may need to special order in lower clarity - pls let me know if that’s possible. Also i looked at F, G, H and H was pretty obviously yellowish tinge under normal lighting. I think I was fine with G. But to be honest I was so tired I think I maybe should re do the test with more comparable diamonds.

An ideal cut G did face up whiter than a normal G to me... but I think it wasn’t a good comparison as the CS showed me a strong blue fluoro vs a none fluoro ideal. But I’m glad she did cos I found out that love fluoro lol. I may go back and do a more thorough comparison when I’m less frazzled from work.

Still think a non eye clean inclusion will bug me but if your friend is happy that’s all that matters.

Good to have seen things with your own eyes

Also good to take a second look in due course - like buying a house, it gives one the chance to look again at things that might have been missed the first time round!

Make sure you check stones out in a variety of lighting, including next to the window (or even outside, if they are happy to hold the stones themselves while you look at them).

Special order below VS might be risky, though - as I think we've all seen on here, not all SI inclusions are equal, and you'd have to check out the grading papers for all the options so you could pick one that wasn't likely to have a whacking great big black crystal in the centre of the table! lol

 

[latte_espresso]

I ordered a CBI Si1 stone with a clear crystal inclusion. I did notice it when I first saw the stone, however clarity is also the least of my SO's concerns. With that being said, I focused my money more on the cut/size/color.

 

[unsettled]

I guess clarity would be at the bottom of my priority list too. I have watched the video 5 times and I can't find the crystal.

 

[Madsal]

My strategy with diamonds echoes your friends thinking, I think that's a nice SI2 and would definitely not be obvious in real life, though I don't think it'll completely eye clean, it's a great compromise for budget,carat,size.

Yes I agree. Just thinking whether there are eye clean SI stones that do not have transparency issue. Like @TreeScientist mentioned I would also prefer a totally clear and sparkly stone with a crystal over a cloudy/ dull stone due to other type of inclusions. I think I read it somewhere here where Garry Holloway mentioned that there is no such thing of an eye clean SI without compromising in other aspect.

I ordered a CBI Si1 stone with a clear crystal inclusion. I did notice it when I first saw the stone, however clarity is also the least of my SO's concerns. With that being said, I focused my money more on the cut/size/color.

@latte_espresso so i guess your stone is similar in which you can see the crystal up close? Does the crystal disappear beyond certain distance? Of course I assume you did not find it bothering hence you decided to get it? Has your SO seen it?

I guess clarity would be at the bottom of my priority list too. I have watched the video 5 times and I can't find the crystal.

As a matter of fact I could not see the inclusion the first time I watched the video. And I guessed wrongly. There's this reflection or something on the surface of the stone which I thought was the crystal inclusion. Only after he showed me where the inclusion was I could then see it.

 

[Madsal]

I would definitely wait for your update.

I did not know that JP don't carry any SI diamonds. Let me check with my friend.
Did you enquire on pricing for JP's VS just to have a feel on their pricing vs ACA/ CBI/ BGD?
andif you love fluoro maybe you could also check out Brian Gavin Blue and check if they have anything in stock where you could see during your visit in US. Would love to get your feedback on how CBI/ ACA/ BGD stone compared to one another and also against JP super ideal

Do you find H too yellow too? My gf could see some yellow tint in a G color HOF diamond. We actually went to Tiffany once and she was OK with their H but it was under their jewelry lighting and not under normal lighting. Or maybe Tiffany has higher standard in grading color compared to AGS/GIA?

I completely understand why... buying online is daunting when returns are a pain from here. That said with ACA and CBI diamonds I think the analysis pics provide sufficient info... RBs are a lot less temperamental vs shapes like pears for example. Anyway I’ll update in a month plus with my thoughts on a CBI if my US trip goes as planned.

FWIW I popped by JP today and looked at some diamonds. Can’t get a handle on pricing as they only have VS and above clarity. You may need to special order in lower clarity - pls let me know if that’s possible. Also i looked at F, G, H and H was pretty obviously yellowish tinge under normal lighting. I think I was fine with G. But to be honest I was so tired I think I maybe should re do the test with more comparable diamonds.

An ideal cut G did face up whiter than a normal G to me... but I think it wasn’t a good comparison as the CS showed me a strong blue fluoro vs a none fluoro ideal. But I’m glad she did cos I found out that love fluoro lol. I may go back and do a more thorough comparison when I’m less frazzled from work.

Still think a non eye clean inclusion will bug me but if your friend is happy that’s all that matters.

 

[icy_jade]

Yes I agree. Just thinking whether there are eye clean SI stones that do not have transparency issue. Like @TreeScientist mentioned I would also prefer a totally clear and sparkly stone with a crystal over a cloudy/ dull stone due to other type of inclusions. I think I read it somewhere here where Garry Holloway mentioned that there is no such thing of an eye clean SI without compromising in other aspect.

As a matter of fact I could not see the inclusion the first time I watched the video. And I guessed wrongly. There's this reflection or something on the surface of the stone which I thought was the crystal inclusion. Only after he showed me where the inclusion was I could then see it.

Personally after reading all the threads I thought CBI diamonds were a good option... at least the SI inclusions didn’t bother the CBI owners.



First time I saw the video I spotted 1 and 2 immediately. And 3 after I zoomed. I’m guessing irl the feather is immediately obvious. That will super bug me.

Ultimately the question is not whether we mind or you mind but whether she minds. Ditto color, and even cut and carat. She’s the one wearing the diamond so imo her preference takes precedence over everyone else’s.

Re: color, H yellowish tinge is quite obvious even without comparing to another diamond. So I ruled H out even though face up is fine. G seems fine from my quick look ytd but I do intend to go for a more complex setting so that less of the side profile is visible.

I enquired about JP because if CBI doesn’t work out, then JP is a serious alternative. So not just for testing water so to speak.

Will update re CBI in my thread: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/one-big-solitaire-5-stones-or-a-haloed-pear.241631/

Not getting BG Blue or comparing any other super ideals. I think the existing threads have enough comparison. I’m after the “high contrast” look and if I see it I’m good.

I’m not a Tiffany diamond person as personally I think they are selling the brand and not the diamond. But back to my earlier point re her preference, if she prefers the brand, I’ll say to go with her preference not yours...

I would definitely wait for your update.

I did not know that JP don't carry any SI diamonds. Let me check with my friend.
Did you enquire on pricing for JP's VS just to have a feel on their pricing vs ACA/ CBI/ BGD?
andif you love fluoro maybe you could also check out Brian Gavin Blue and check if they have anything in stock where you could see during your visit in US. Would love to get your feedback on how CBI/ ACA/ BGD stone compared to one another and also against JP super ideal

Do you find H too yellow too? My gf could see some yellow tint in a G color HOF diamond. We actually went to Tiffany once and she was OK with their H but it was under their jewelry lighting and not under normal lighting. Or maybe Tiffany has higher standard in grading color compared to AGS/GIA?