Yet another stone (but not for me)

[JLW05]

Went into Manhattan to Prima. The tsavorite Jaimeen had for me was too small. He had another round that actually fit my pendant but I didn't care for it. Then out came the Mahenge spinels. I just didn't care for the way they looked in the pendant but my daughter was with me and I suggested that perhaps one would interest her as her 21st birthday is just a few months away. We chose what I would call a hot pink. I brought the stone home but itis "on loan" for the next week while I make up my mind. The stone does have what looks to me to be a very obvious tilt window but I do not see a window looking straight down from the crown. I believe that you can see the tilt window when you look at the photo I took of the stone under fluorescent lighting. The stone is 6.8 mm 1.59 carats. I don't own the stone yet so input is appreciated. Pictures do not exactly capture the color and my iPad doesn't exactly take great photos.

 

[JLW05]

Another photo.

 

[tara3056]

Are you comfortable disclosing the price (since no lurker can sneak in and grab it from you)?

 

[JLW05]

Tara, is it possible for me to somehow post to your diamond bistro account? Also, please feel comfortable about telling me what you think or if I should post more photos, perhaps from my daughter's smart phone.

 

[minousbijoux]

First, impossible to see if it has a tilt window in those photos to my eye, anyway, as the stone is too far from the camera. Second, Prima has good prices, especially on Mahenges. If the photos are accurate, I would say its medium in tone, with very strong if not vivid saturation. I'm really not sure it has a tilt window at all. Can you describe what you see that makes you think it has a tilt window?

Finally, assuming the clarity and cutting are good, I would suspect the price range is somewhere between $1,200 and $1,800.

 

[minousbijoux]

Overlooked my main point: gorgeous stone. If your daughter loves it, please keep it!

 

[JLW05]

Minousbijoux, I will try to get closer photos. My Nikkon camera is useless and my ipad not much better. I can try my daughter's smartphone tomorrow. When I look at the stone straight through crown I cannot see through the stone to read a newspaper that is underneath the stone. When I tilt the stone or lay it on its side, I can. As this is not a dark stone and I have almost no experience with loose colored stones, I don't know if I should be able to see through the stone or if it means that there is a tilt window as I first thought.

 

[JLW05]

Thanks Minous. I tried my best and want my daughter to have something really beautiful. Since I haven't paid for the stone yet and have a few days to make up my mind about purchasing it, I want to make absolutely certain the stone is all that I am hoping it is. You were on target price-wise.

 

[tara3056]

Well, yes, you could contact me via my Diamond Bistro listing, but that's only if you could find it! Unfortunately I'm not allowed to post on here the item that I'm selling - even if it's just to direct you to a way to contact me - because it's considered improper advertising. (I really wish we had PMs here!!) That said, Minou correctly guessed the price range, so I don't really need to know the exact price. I purchased my 1.87ct Mahenge from Prima a few months ago, but unless the prices have drastically risen since then, I'm guessing this one comes in closer to $1200 than to $1800. At $1800, I would pass - not because it's not beautiful, but because I'd consider that over-priced, even taking 'Mahenge-inflation' into account. At $1200-1500, I would consider it well-priced.

As for the stone itself, I like it very much from your pictures! I don't see a tilt window in the pics, though from the way you describe reading newsprint through it when it's laying on its side, I trust that there is one. Mine has one, too, and indeed, almost all stones do. Mine is set into a pendant, and the tilt window is never seen during normal wear. In a ring, I might have noticed it more, but it didn't bother me even when it was loose. You and your daughter have to decide if the tilt window bothers you enough to pass on the stone, BUT you may be in for a difficult search for a stone that has less of one. This is also a round-cut Mahenge, and those aren't that common. I was lucky that Jaimeen found one for me because I really wanted a round. If your daughter likes rounds the best, that would be another reason to keep this one. The color looks really lovely.. strongly saturated and "wow" at the fluorescence! I personally like the hot pink Mahenges a lot. Mine goes more reddish in sunlight (does yours?) because of the fluor, but otherwise is a neon pink.

Most importantly, does your daughter *love* it? This is a color that's difficult to get in any other stone, so if she loves the color, I'd say it's a keeper. Sometimes you get hot pink tourmaline, but not often, and talk about tilt windows with those! Pink sapphires are much more expensive and they're not usually this color, either. One more reason to love Mahenges - they're unique!

 

[JewelFreak]

I can't see a major tilt window either in your photos. I think it's a lovely well saturated Mahenge & should look great in a pendant. You may be able to see more than shows in pics, so whether it bothers you too much is something only you can tell. Sounds like your daughter likes it -- looks like a nice find to me.

--- Laurie

 

[hippi_pixi]

lovely color!

 

[chrono]

In order for us to be able to comment fairly on the spinel, it is important to have it show the colour as accurately as possible. A tilt window is normal, even in spinels. What matters is that it isn't so easily seen at the slightest tilt angle and that it should be fairly small. That said, if the colouration is good, that is the most important factor. And price of course.

 

[JLW05]

Hi Tara,
You are very close to the mark price wise. Walking into Prima I had no idea what a mahenge should cost. Like tsavorites, prices vary considerably based on color, quality, etc. so even though I searched through the inventory of a few vendors, I couldn't get a handle on price. I am relieved that you and Minous have confirmed that the price I should expect to pay for the stone falls within the price I was quoted. My daughter does love the stone. All my daughter knows about stones is what is visually appealing to her. She even picked out a setting she liked while at Prima - a very simple yellow gold with two accent diamonds on each side.
I was honestly very concerned when I got home and could read the paper as I tilted the stone and then went as far as to gently roll the stone on its side on the paper. I feel better knowing that your stone has a tilt window as well.
I didn't initially realize that Mahenge spinels are not commonly found in rounds but Jaimeen set me straight on that. The only spinels I have seen have been at Prima and all have been round. Jaimeen also showed me a raspberry spinel but it did not have the "glow" of the one I brought home and my daughter prefers the hot pinks. I do as well but I also love the reds and Jaimeen had a beautiful, large red spinel that I happened to spot. Wow!
It was raining in Manhattan yesterday plus I didn't want to advertise that I had an expensive stone on my person but every so often I surreptitiously took a peak. I thought it looked more red outside but now I am not so sure. It was hard to tell how it looked outdoors and I will take a look at it outside later today.

 

[JLW05]

Chrono, I am home today and when my "princess" awakens, I will try to get some better shots on her smart phone. I'm not certain what would be considered a small vs a larger window since this is the first tilt window I have ever seen in person. None of the photos I took really capture the color but #3 & #5come closest.

 

[chrono]

My hot pink trillions from Jaimeen also show a tilt window, which is normal. The greater the angle of tilt, the larger the window is. How is the indoor colour shift?
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/which-mahenge-pair.162115/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/which-mahenge-pair.162115/[/URL]

 

[pregcurious]

In order for us to be able to comment fairly on the spinel, it is important to have it show the colour as accurately as possible. A tilt window is normal, even in spinels. What matters is that it isn't so easily seen at the slightest tilt angle and that it should be fairly small. That said, if the colouration is good, that is the most important factor. And price of course.

+1. A minimal tilt window is okay. This is different from a window, which is defined only when you look straight down. Small tilt windows are normal, even in high RI stones. To minimize a tilt window, my understanding is that you can stick to high RI stones like spinel, but really there's nothing wrong with an aquamarine with a proportionally larger tilt window because its RI is lower. You can also go for a very deep/narrow stone, but then you're paying for a stone that does not have good face-up size and therefore does not have an optimal cut.

Here's an explanation about tilt windows from AJS:
"With a little experience windowing is easy to detect. However, it is important to distinguish a genuine window from apparent windowing that is not a cutting defect. There is a phenomenon known as a tilt window that occurs when you look down through the table and then tilt the gem in one or another direction. You will then see clear window through some of the pavilion facets. A tilt window is often unavoidable even in a very well cut gem, particularly in a gem material with a fairly low refractive index. Gems with a low refractive index, such as tourmaline or beryl, need only be tilted a few degrees to see the tilt window, while a gem with a high refractive index like zircon may need to be tilted 16 degrees for a tilt window to appear. Gems cut with a high or narrow crown may not display a tilt window at all, though these may not be desirable cutting characteristics."
http://www.ajsgem.com/articles/gemstone-windows-and-windowing.html

 

[JLW05]

Here's the best we could do, my daughter's phone isn't so great.

 

[JLW05]

Unfortunately, these photos are not representative of the color but at least we were able to get a closeup.

 

[JLW05]

Chrono,
Answered before but my post got "lost". I understand what you mean but my apartment has pretty uniform lighting (northeast exposure) and all one of my sons, my daughter and I could see is basically the same pink, even when we turned on the lights in windowed rooms. When I walked into an unlit windowless hallway, I couldn't see the stone very well but I could clearly see pink flourescence. I am going to take the stone on a little trip to the doctor this afternoon to see it under different lighting conditions. I am a little nervous about this because if I lose or damage the stone I naturally will be paying for it!
Took the stone for a walk with my dog. I did notice that under most conditions the stone was pink and very glowy. Can't say that I saw any red flashes, etc. However, at times the crown and the edges around the circumference of the crown took on an unattractive darkish/grayish cast. Perhaps it was shadows that were being cast from overhead. I don't know.

 

[chrono]

The tilt window is at an acceptable level. What I meant specifically is under fluorescent, incandescent, halogen or whatever else type of indoor (sans sunlight) lights you have at home, meaning without being near a window so this might be the bathroom or kitchen with the blinds / curtains down and lights on.

Jaimeen mailed me 5 boxes of hot pink Mahenge pairs for review. Out of the 5 pairs, 3 sets shifted strongly to an orangish pink indoors which I did not like. 2 pairs also became less saturated. I kept the 2 pairs that had very little shift and maintained their strong saturation. I did not need to remove the stone from their cases in order to see the colour shift.

 

[JLW05]

Ah, Chrono, sometimes my lack of knowledge embarrasses me. Thank you for explaining. The stone keeps its color very nicely under the conditions you described. Only "negatve"? I see is the color shift I mentioned in an above post which occured when I was outside.

 

[minousbijoux]

Well, yes, you could contact me via my Diamond Bistro listing, but that's only if you could find it! Unfortunately I'm not allowed to post on here the item that I'm selling - even if it's just to direct you to a way to contact me - because it's considered improper advertising. (I really wish we had PMs here!!) That said, Minou correctly guessed the price range, so I don't really need to know the exact price. I purchased my 1.87ct Mahenge from Prima a few months ago, but unless the prices have drastically risen since then, I'm guessing this one comes in closer to $1200 than to $1800. At $1800, I would pass - not because it's not beautiful, but because I'd consider that over-priced, even taking 'Mahenge-inflation' into account. At $1200-1500, I would consider it well-priced.

Tara: do keep in mind that this stone appears in the majority of photos I've seen to have slightly greater saturation than yours so that, combined with the increasing prices since you bought yours, may account for the price difference. I may be sensitive to price as I have paid much less per carat all the way to considerably more per carat than either one of you for a vivid, precision cut Mahenge of similar size. But the $190/ct range within which you believe it should fall is an extremely tight price band. I wish it were so easy - perhaps it is with Jameen

 

[tara3056]

Minou, I didn't take any offense, so please don't worry about that, but I have to mention that my pics have yet to represent the color of my spinel accurately, so I'm not so sure that mine is less saturated. (I truly don't believe it is, and Jaimeen called mine one of the best he'd seen in several months.) This is why I'm always hesitant to judge based on anyone's pictures - unless they were taken by Kenny!! - and am usually careful to say "based on your pics" with the implication that they may or may not be accurate to real life. Perhaps my ideal price range for this stone IS too narrow (which was not $190/ct. BTW, but $750-950/ct!), but if it were $1800 or more, I *personally* would want the stone to have the rarer "old material" color that had more red to it. But that might just be me.

JLW05, I see the tilt window in the new pic with your daughter's phone, but like Chrono, I don't think it's an unacceptable one. It wouldn't keep me from buying and enjoying the stone. It sounds like your daughter is enamored with it as well, having already chosen a setting, so there's that to consider! You're lucky you got to see lots of rounds! When I was looking for mine, Jaimeen had nothing at all in my size-range, and I had to wait a few days for him to get a new parcel in. As for the color shifting, you want to be watching for orangey / peach hues that show up indoors, particularly under fluorescent/CFL lights . I've had a couple of Mahenges (since sold) that exhibited this, and the shift can be slight or can be so strong it doesn't look like quite the same stone.

 

[pregcurious]

Ah, Chrono, sometimes my lack of knowledge embarrasses me. Thank you for explaining. The stone keeps its color very nicely under the conditions you described. Only "negatve"? I see is the color shift I mentioned in an above post which occured when I was outside.

The orange modifier should lower the price compared to a purple modifier. I am not a mahenge connoisseur, but from what I understand, the top mahenges will have a pink/red fluorescence which will make them look more vivid pink/red outside (or under any UV light source.) Burmese red spinels also have fluor, but to a lesser degree, which is what makes the top ones come alive outside (I am a red person, so I know much more about Burmese red spinels and own one).

It's not clear to me which pictures of yours accurately reflect the color. For top color, I would look at the threads for Chrono's pear, Harriet's sugarloaf, Art Nouveau's cushion, and TL's trillion. They are all highly saturated "old stock" Mahenge material without orange. Harriet's is so saturated that it reads as red to me. My understanding is that this material is not readily available anymore.
Chrono's pear, Harriet's sugarloaf, Art Nouveau's cushion are here :
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/show-us-your-mahenge-spinels.138168/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/show-us-your-mahenge-spinels.138168/[/URL]
TL's trillion is here:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/show-us-your-mahenge-spinels.138168/page-4']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/show-us-your-mahenge-spinels.138168/page-4[/URL]

I would decided on whether to keep the stone based on 1) do I like it (regardless of what is considered "top" color), and 2) did I pay a reasonable price. You will have to look for around at other vendor's stones to get a feel for the current market. I know that both Mahenge pink and Burmese red spinels have gone up steadily in the last few years.

 

[minousbijoux]

Minou, I didn't take any offense, so please don't worry about that, but I have to mention that my pics have yet to represent the color of my spinel accurately, so I'm not so sure that mine is less saturated. (I truly don't believe it is, and Jaimeen called mine one of the best he'd seen in several months.) This is why I'm always hesitant to judge based on anyone's pictures - unless they were taken by Kenny!! - and am usually careful to say "based on your pics" with the implication that they may or may not be accurate to real life. Perhaps my ideal price range for this stone IS too narrow (which was not $190/ct. BTW, but $750-950/ct!), but if it were $1800 or more, I *personally* would want the stone to have the rarer "old material" color that had more red to it. But that might just be me.

I'm relieved you took it as intended. I guess my point was that your acceptable price range is a band between $1200 - $1500 ($300) for a 1.6 carat stone, which only allows for a variance of roughly $190/ct. Personally, I think that's too narrow of a price allowance. And we would be so lucky to find the old material for $1800, or $1,125/ct, IMO.

 

[JLW05]

Re-post - my replies seem to be disappearing!
Thank you all for your input. While the stone may not be top quality, it is a keeper. This is my first colored stone purchase. I wish I could capture the color of the stone and the lovely glow on camera. The stone performs very well under most lighting conditions and I have learned a bit, especially about tilt windows. My daughter already loves it and she will be thrilled once the ring is set. I will post photos.
Hopefully, the right tsavorite will come along in the not too distant future.

 

[LD]

If you haven't then you should just buy it.

It's a good price.
A beautiful colour
A good cut
A minimum tilt window (that you see in many many many gems and IS NOT a way to evaluate a stone).

Mahenge material is scarce now. If you snooze you'll lose on this one.

 

[JLW05]

LD,
Being as inexperienced as I am I really don't know if the tilt window is minimal because I have nothing to compare it to. However, I really love the stone and I am entranced by its color and by how it glows. More importantly, my daughter loves it. In fact, I have been so focused on a tsavorite that I couldn't imagine anything other than one in the pendant but the Mahenge looks absolutely beautiful in it(didn't think so at Prima but I do now!). I know that mahenges of quality are becoming difficult to find. I was in contact with one lapidary whose name comes up often in posts. He didn't have any tsavorite available. I wrote back to him and said that down the road I might be interested in a Mahenge and he told me that he was having a problem with procuring decent rough and that the last Mahenges he cut were really ugly (his word). I'm certainly not snoozing and Jaimeen knows that I will be purchasing the stone.

 

[chrono]

If you love this stone, why not get a Mahenge for your pendant? If Jaimeen can get you another round with comparable saturation, it will look great in a white metal setting as well. Your odds of getting one is better than trying to get a tsavorite....for now.

 

[JLW05]

Chrono, I was just so fixated on a tsavorite that I refused to budge and passed on the Mahenge.
On a prior visit to Prima, I admired a Mahenge and told Jaimeen that down the road I would be wanting one so that is why he thought I might like to look at this stone. I didn't want to let the stone go and I want my daughter to have something very beautiful and unique for her birthday so I was/am pleased that she liked it. However, I have really become mesmerized by it. It has grown on me so much that I was actually awful enough to ask my daughter if she might consider a comparable Mahenge as this one fits my pendant. I received a very evil glare from her! I will speak to Jaimeen and tell him that now I am open to a Mahenge or a tsavorite.
I actually got an e-mail from Swala that appropriate tsavorite rough has been located. I have been very specific with Eric about what I am looking for in a stone and perhaps this will pan out. I am not thrilled with the limitations of dealing with Swala in terms of returns, etc. Prima is ideal for me. Not only is Jaimeen pleasant and patient but Prima is just a little over an hour away from my home. No hassles with returns, shipping, etc.
Anyway, there will be a Mahenge in my future. Whether it will end up in the pendant I now have, another pendant or on my finger remains to be seen.