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How to buy a vintage OEC?

EllieTO

EllieTO

Shiny_Rock
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Joined
Aug 28, 2011
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222
Hi lovely PS experts! I'm planning a special project this year, and I could use some guidance.

I'm thinking of a 1 to 1.5 ct OEC, possibly in a yellow gold CVB Cora setting. It would be a RHR for myself.

I'm considering true vintage, AVR mined or AVR lab (would also consider CER, but there is not much selection). I think the AVRs would be easy to buy sight unseen, but I'm kind of leaning towards a true vintage stone. I just don't know how to select one. I've scoured a bunch of the usual antique dealers websites, but I don't know how to evaluate cut, or even color. I know I want a very crisp stone with a defined flower pattern. I'm open to lower colors, but not sure what to expect in real life.

Is it possible to select a nice OEC without seeing it in person? I live in San Diego, what would be my best options in So Cal? Jewels by Grace is in LA and there are a few stones I might be interested in, so I think I will start there. Any others you would recommend? And any tips for how to evaluate stones that I'm able to see in person?

On that note, please show me your Coras, or other intricate vintage-inspired settings, especially with smaller centre stones. I plan to wear it on my right hand middle finger, which is a size 6, so I think 1-1.5 ct in this type of setting seems about right for every day wear.
Link to CVB Cora: https://www.distinctivegem.com/coll...cvb-cora-victorian-inspired-cluster-halo-ring

Thank you!
 
maryjane04 said:
What is your budget for the stone? Collins Family jewellers is in SD and often has old cuts so you could check them out!
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OMG! I thought that name sounded familiar. They are just around the corner from my house! Thanks so much for the tip.

I'm targeting $5-6K for the stone, maybe up to $7K.
 
EllieTO said:
OMG! I thought that name sounded familiar. They are just around the corner from my house! Thanks so much for the tip.

I'm targeting $5-6K for the stone, maybe up to $7K.
Click to expand...

Oh how lucky haha I would pay CFJ a visit and see some in person. Then you would be able to see what your tolerance are for tint/colour and clarity etc. You can stalk their IG.

In the meantime if we find any that meets your criteria we will happily post them here!

Also have a look at 47 jewelry's website. There's a few that looks like what you're looking for. I just can't view them for some reason.
 
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I would definitely visit Collins and let us k is what you think as far as what color, clarity your eyes gravitate towards. If it’s a Gia stone, make sure you get the number… it’s always helpful to know if you prefer a more spready/deeper stone, a true oec/tranny, or a hybrid omc/oec. I definitely recommend seeing some old cut stones in person before buying. Most vendors have a pretty good return policy to view stones.

I also second 47 Jewlers! Ask for Fred, he’s very knowledgeable with old cuts and can also pull some stones to compare.
 
If you’re planning to have Caysie make your setting, then you could also ask her to source you a stone.
 
I’m a huge fan of genuine antique OECs. They have a sparkle and fire to them that I don’t really see in newly cut diamonds of the same style.

You’ve gotten some great suggestions already, and I would add SinCityFinds and GildedLane as reputable IG sellers to keep an eye on.

If you go the lab route, there are overseas vendors who offer more bang for the buck.
 
For selecting an OEC, I'd say it's definitely possible to choose a great one without seeing it in person, though it can be a bit tricky. Since you're after a crisp stone with a defined flower pattern, I'd recommend focusing on the cut and clarity in photos and asking for detailed pics if possible, especially in good lighting. As for color, lower colors can still be beautiful-just be aware that they might show a bit more warmth in certain lights. Jewels by Grace is a good start for vintage stones, but maybe check out other SoCal dealers like Lang Antiques or a few others in the area.
 
Not sure if you want to see colored stone Coras but this one is around 1.6 ct I think, a sapphire. I agree with the suggestion of contacting Old World Diamonds, I also think Grace has a great eye for stones.
7E29ECCE-7CFC-442E-8A00-A048F02F5E8E (1).jpeg
 
Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I wasn't familiar with all the vendors you all suggested, so I'll go down the rabbit hole when I get a chance.

I'm still not clear on how to go about selecting and purchasing a stone if the vendor is not local. Do people just ask for a bunch of videos and pictures? Most pictures and videos I see are not great. If I'm working with a local jeweler/dealer, where do they source vintage stones? Same ones from the usual vendors that I can also see online, or is there a trade channel that's not visible to the public? Would I buy a few of the finalists, then keep one and return all the rest (assuming no restocking fee, but may lose out on shipping cost)? I could purchase a few temporarily, then return, but is that really how it's done? Sorry for the silly questions, I just don't really get the logistics.

I'm planning to check out Collins on Wednesday. Jewels by Grace will be harder for me as they're only weekdays, I may need to take a day off work. Any others that are in LA or SD?
 
EllieTO said:
Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I wasn't familiar with all the vendors you all suggested, so I'll go down the rabbit hole when I get a chance.

I'm still not clear on how to go about selecting and purchasing a stone if the vendor is not local. Do people just ask for a bunch of videos and pictures? Most pictures and videos I see are not great. If I'm working with a local jeweler/dealer, where do they source vintage stones? Same ones from the usual vendors that I can also see online, or is there a trade channel that's not visible to the public? Would I buy a few of the finalists, then keep one and return all the rest (assuming no restocking fee, but may lose out on shipping cost)? I could purchase a few temporarily, then return, but is that really how it's done? Sorry for the silly questions, I just don't really get the logistics.

I'm planning to check out Collins on Wednesday. Jewels by Grace will be harder for me as they're only weekdays, I may need to take a day off work. Any others that are in LA or SD?
Click to expand...

Vetting and procuring Old (well cut) stones is an artform, and there is not a huge online inventory of stones like there are with modern cuts. The hunt is very different... outside of cut, you are looking for character, color tolerance, ensuring there is no fisheye due to depth, etc. Different Vendors have different ways to source. Some of them have their own inventory (e.g.,OWD, Collins), but often they reach out to some of the same procurers- I would not suggest you contact a whole bunch of vendors with the same specs, maybe 2...unless you can find one online and then source for the best price. The tough part is, with such a small inventory, many of these vendors are looking in the same pool, often driving up price and frustration. Your best bet... Go to Collins, figure out your tolerance (maybe you luck out and find your stone there!) and figure out the exact specs you are looking for, then reach out to 1-2 vendors (whoever you connect with, could even be Collins Jewelers), and go from there... If you get videos, pics and certs you can ask us all here about them and we can help you vet! It's a very personal process and you will need to find a stone that speaks to you rather than shop on numbers and Aset.

Looking forward to your journey!
 
Search this forum for “OEC.” Read lots of threads of other people doing similar searches. That’s the best way to learn how it all works. Have fun!
 
Reporting back after a trip to Collins! This is perfect timing because they JUST posted the three stones I was looking at on their IG story, so I would love to hear evaluations of each one. I can also share what I liked.

First off, go watch their IG story ASAP because it will expire!!
https://www.instagram.com/collinsfamilyjewelers/

#1. 1.89 L VS2
https://www.gia.edu/report-check?locale=en_US&reportno=2235024439
My video:
https://imgur.com/a/AOssj5S
- This is the middle one in today's story, screenshot below. See the story for videos.
Screenshot_20250129_171603_Instagram.jpg

- This was the only one I liked out of those 3. I liked the defined flower pattern and it looks more crisp. The other two looked disorganized to me. I would love to hear opinions on these 3 based on the videos in their story, and my video of the middle one.
- I was surprised to see Poor symmetry on the GIA report. What does that mean? Is it not really a good cut, or is symmetry not a good indicator for these types of stones?
- I'm not sold on it though because it's more than I wanted to spend, and I just started looking.

#2. 1.72 S-T VS1
https://www.gia.edu/report-check?locale=en_US&reportno=2235376956
- This is also in today's story, but not in the comparison of three. There is also an older video on their IG account. It caught my eye on IG before I went in, but I didn't think they would have it still. I didn't even realize it was the one I was looking at until I came home and looked at their IG again.
Older IG video before setting:
- My impressions: Whoa CHUNKY and CREAMY! I think this one is stunning! It's also very spready - it's 8.15 x 8.23 (compared to #1 which is higher carat but 7.77 x 8.02). And it's in my price range! But... call me crazy... I think it's larger than I would like. It felt huge on my hand, and the setting I'm planning will add a lot of size. While I'm sure I would love it, I worry that I wouldn't wear it as much.
- Here's a video on my hand, currently in a setting (they will sell it loose too). It's on my ring finger here, but I plan to wear it on my right hand middle finger (just cause that finger has more real estate as a size ~6. My ring finger is ~4)
https://imgur.com/a/7UF19Bn


I would love to hear evaluations of my picks #1 and #2, and also the other ones in their story. Thanks so much!
 
Wow how fun you got to try these beauties on!! I'm so jealous and what perfect timing that CFJ had a few for you to look at.

I love #1 and it's a very safe choice. It's white enough and clean enough and the faceting is very pretty. Out of the three listed I think that's the best one for you. The other two are more old mine cuts so it's less precise and more pillowy. Also old cuts are a bit perfectly imperfect so the polish and symmetry can't be compared to by modern standards. The fact that it's poor is a really good indication that it's a true antique!

I think #2 faces up whiter than it states but I'm feeling like it's lacking the fire. What did you think of the warmth of this stone?
 
Those are all really gorgeous. I really liked the 1.37. Those cuts are really hard to find and it’s a beautiful example the 1.87 is gorgeous as well. Don’t even worry about symmetry and polish for old cuts. It’s almost always poor. The lab reports are mostly to help you know, colour and clarity grading to help establish value. But those are all really beautiful options. You could just choose whichever one you like the best. I think the prices are really good too.
 
#1 has potential. #2 is only good if you want to do a bezel or faux bezel (to enhance the faceting since it is a spready 52.1% depth).
 
lulu_ma said:
#1 has potential. #2 is only good if you want to do a bezel or faux bezel (to enhance the faceting since it is a spready 52.1% depth).
Click to expand...

Can you explain more about using a bezel to enhance faceting? What about the setting I have in mind? It's the Cvb Cora, linked in my opening post and someone also posted it with a colored stone a few posts above.
 
maryjane04 said:
Wow how fun you got to try these beauties on!! I'm so jealous and what perfect timing that CFJ had a few for you to look at.

I love #1 and it's a very safe choice. It's white enough and clean enough and the faceting is very pretty. Out of the three listed I think that's the best one for you. The other two are more old mine cuts so it's less precise and more pillowy. Also old cuts are a bit perfectly imperfect so the polish and symmetry can't be compared to by modern standards. The fact that it's poor is a really good indication that it's a true antique!

I think #2 faces up whiter than it states but I'm feeling like it's lacking the fire. What did you think of the warmth of this stone?
Click to expand...

Yes, I feel so lucky to have this store so close by! They had other nice jewelery too, I'm just trying not to buy other things while I'm about to splurge on this project. I'm still waiting to hear of any other stores I can check out live in So Cal :)

I was shocked at how white they all looked! And I'm usually pretty good at distinguishing color. When I first saw the L-M trio, they all looked white face up! I expected to see warmth around J-K. I looked at them under the store lighting as well as near a window. The #2 S-T definitely looked creamy even face up, and I wouldn't set it in white, but I think it would look gorgeous in yellow gold, as I'm planning anyway. I also saw a P or Q that looked way more yellow, I'm not sure why. I also decided I'd like around 1.5 ct, so I will have to go for lower color to fit my budget, but I don't mind.

I will go back in a few days for a second look, so I'll pay more attention to the fire on #2. It looked lively to me, crisp and chunky. I saw another that looked glassy, this one definitely didn't (there were soooo many OECs, though mostly set, I only discussed a few above). I just can't get over how huge #2 looked on me, so I can't pull the trigger. And #1 is out of my desired price range, but I could go for it if I decide it's the best one after seeing some more. Of course any of them could sell, and I hesitated even posting here.

I'm planning to reach out to OWD, I like their videos and their policies. And probably Jewels by Grace, if I can get to LA on a weekday.
 
EllieTO said:
Yes, I feel so lucky to have this store so close by! They had other nice jewelery too, I'm just trying not to buy other things while I'm about to splurge on this project. I'm still waiting to hear of any other stores I can check out live in So Cal :)

I was shocked at how white they all looked! And I'm usually pretty good at distinguishing color. When I first saw the L-M trio, they all looked white face up! I expected to see warmth around J-K. I looked at them under the store lighting as well as near a window. The #2 S-T definitely looked creamy even face up, and I wouldn't set it in white, but I think it would look gorgeous in yellow gold, as I'm planning anyway. I also saw a P or Q that looked way more yellow, I'm not sure why. I also decided I'd like around 1.5 ct, so I will have to go for lower color to fit my budget, but I don't mind.

I will go back in a few days for a second look, so I'll pay more attention to the fire on #2. It looked lively to me, crisp and chunky. I saw another that looked glassy, this one definitely didn't (there were soooo many OECs, though mostly set, I only discussed a few above). I just can't get over how huge #2 looked on me, so I can't pull the trigger. And #1 is out of my desired price range, but I could go for it if I decide it's the best one after seeing some more. Of course any of them could sell, and I hesitated even posting here.

I'm planning to reach out to OWD, I like their videos and their policies. And probably Jewels by Grace, if I can get to LA on a weekday.
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I'm so glad you were able to see a few in person and determined the right size, colour etc for you. I love that you're embracing the warmer colours. This will give you a lot more options while keeping to budget!

If you're seeing Grace, then maybe reach out to Jacob K as well. I think they're nearby in the jewellery district and he's got some options for really good prices.
 
EllieTO said:
Can you explain more about using a bezel to enhance faceting? What about the setting I have in mind? It's the Cvb Cora, linked in my opening post and someone also posted it with a colored stone a few posts above.
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#2 Is similar to my former 4.11 ct.

A stone this shallow needs some enhancement and will never have a super active center (not much fire).

See how these adjacent petals all go dark at the same time? This is what I’m talking about.

IMG_3296.jpeg
A bezel or faux bezel can mask some of this lack of definition, but bezels can trap tint, too.

Here's a link to my bezel experiment with my old stone.

lulu_ma

Post in thread 'Need design help with this Art Deco Inspired Setting'

Ha! Good thing DH is an engineer! Here's a Bezel experiment with my stone. I think I can go for faux bezel with an open gallery :appl:

What do you think ladies?

@Dmndsr4evr11 you might be able to conduct a similar experiment for your stone...


  • Like

There are a lot of buying opportunities right now especially for slightly warmer stones in your carat weight range. 47jewelry has a broad selection at very good price ones.
 
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@lulu_ma Thank you for that explanation and pointing out what you were looking for with the petals turning on and off. I was trying to pay attention to how they turn on and off but still didn't notice it until you pointed it out. I will try to look for it when I see it again soon, and compare fire to other stones, like #1. Is that the only negative to this type of shallow cut, less fire?
 
EllieTO said:
@lulu_ma Thank you for that explanation and pointing out what you were looking for with the petals turning on and off. I was trying to pay attention to how they turn on and off but still didn't notice it until you pointed it out. I will try to look for it when I see it again soon, and compare fire to other stones, like #1. Is that the only negative to this type of shallow cut, less fire?
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It’s priced a bit high for that color.

How do you feel about Ebay? This one is uncerted but has potential (it would be good to see profile pic and get the depth).

If you save it, they will sent you an offer for $4000.

www.ebay.com

1.8 + cttw cttw Carat Old European Cut Diamond Platinum Art Deco Ring | eBay

<p>Old European cut diamond weighing approximately 1.50 carats with a fairly large cutlet- measures 7.79 mm. flanking 25 round transitional cut diamonds.diamonds equal approx .3-.5 cttw. </p><p>Platinum. </p><p>Ring size 6 1/2.</p><p>Stamp: PLATINUM and makers mark Certified</p><p>Gross...
www.ebay.com
 
lulu_ma said:
It’s priced a bit high for that color.
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Wouldn't you expect a B&M store to have higher prices? I really don't know. Also not sure which price you saw, cause I didn't post the price. For #2 the stone is $6500. But it's ok, I'm not really considering it cause I think it's too big for what I had in mind.

lulu_ma said:
How do you feel about Ebay? This one is uncerted but has potential (it would be good to see profile pic and get the depth).

If you save it, they will sent you an offer for $4000.

www.ebay.com

1.8 + cttw cttw Carat Old European Cut Diamond Platinum Art Deco Ring | eBay

<p>Old European cut diamond weighing approximately 1.50 carats with a fairly large cutlet- measures 7.79 mm. flanking 25 round transitional cut diamonds.diamonds equal approx .3-.5 cttw. </p><p>Platinum. </p><p>Ring size 6 1/2.</p><p>Stamp: PLATINUM and makers mark Certified</p><p>Gross...
www.ebay.com
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I don't think I would go the e-bay route for this. Too hard to evaluate and too much hassle to deal with a random seller for returns. I'd love to know how you can tell it has potential?

As for 47Jewelery, they have a large selection, but I don't like that they use the same images for multiple stones. A bit misleading, no? And then there's nothing to go by to start narrowing it down.
 
I would love some guidance on two videos I got from a vendor (trying to keep these ones a bit more anonymous due to lurkers). I really appreciate everyone's time, I'm trying to learn from zero here, and at Collins I didn't get any help on how to select the best one.

#3: 60% depth/ 53% table
What does it mean that all the petals are dark at the same time? Should they be flashing on and off with this amount of tilt?
https://imgur.com/a/i7xamt9


#4: 56% depth / 52% table
This one is not as attractive to me because I can't really see the flower, but I'm sure there's more to it than that.
https://imgur.com/a/qWD3GXw


Thank you all so much!
@lulu_ma @maryjane04 @Dreamer_D @TruLuv858
 
EllieTO said:
I would love some guidance on two videos I got from a vendor (trying to keep these ones a bit more anonymous due to lurkers). I really appreciate everyone's time, I'm trying to learn from zero here, and at Collins I didn't get any help on how to select the best one.

#3: 60% depth/ 53% table
What does it mean that all the petals are dark at the same time? Should they be flashing on and off with this amount of tilt?
https://imgur.com/a/i7xamt9
Click to expand...

Hard to tell, the camera might just be too close. The faceting looks promising.


EllieTO said:
#4: 56% depth / 52% table
This one is not as attractive to me because I can't really see the flower, but I'm sure there's more to it than that.
https://imgur.com/a/qWD3GXw
Click to expand...
More chaotic faceting. It's pretty shallow and I think that's why it looks a little flat.

Are these real antiques? Most OECs are closer to 70% depth. What are the girdles and polish like?

I don't find these videos super helpful.
 
EllieTO said:
I would love some guidance on two videos I got from a vendor (trying to keep these ones a bit more anonymous due to lurkers). I really appreciate everyone's time, I'm trying to learn from zero here, and at Collins I didn't get any help on how to select the best one.

#3: 60% depth/ 53% table
What does it mean that all the petals are dark at the same time? Should they be flashing on and off with this amount of tilt?
https://imgur.com/a/i7xamt9


#4: 56% depth / 52% table
This one is not as attractive to me because I can't really see the flower, but I'm sure there's more to it than that.
https://imgur.com/a/qWD3GXw


Thank you all so much!
@lulu_ma @maryjane04 @Dreamer_D @TruLuv858
Click to expand...

#3 is not very well cut and very shallow. The centre is always dark so hard pass. A well cut stone will have contrast, so every other petal will turn on and off but not all at once.

#4 the faceting is not very crisp or organised. Not the flowery petals that you want. I'd pass on this as well

Generally oecs don't have to be as deep as omcs but around 65% give or take will give you a decent crown and fire.
 
maryjane04 said:
#3 is not very well cut and very shallow. The centre is always dark so hard pass. A well cut stone will have contrast, so every other petal will turn on and off but not all at once.

#4 the faceting is not very crisp or organised. Not the flowery petals that you want. I'd pass on this as well

Generally oecs don't have to be as deep as omcs but around 65% give or take will give you a decent crown and fire.
Click to expand...

I hate to give any rules for depth because hey are all so individual! My diamond is more of a transitional but I think its depth is 54. My five stone suite they are all about 65-68%.

I mostly asked because it’s weird both these stones are sub-60. That’s low.
 
Dreamer_D said:
I hate to give any rules for depth because hey are all so individual! My diamond is more of a transitional but I think its depth is 54. My five stone suite they are all about 65-68%.

I mostly asked because it’s weird both these stones are sub-60. That’s low.
Click to expand...

Yeah I don't like to give rules either. If the OP was after a transitional then I wouldn't rule out the depth issue. But usually for the faceting that they're after then yeah it's probably going to be a bit deeper. I agree that the depth on these stones is low lol and not very well cut.
 
maryjane04 said:
Yeah I don't like to give rules either. If the OP was after a transitional then I wouldn't rule out the depth issue. But usually for the faceting that they're after then yeah it's probably going to be a bit deeper. I agree that the depth on these stones is low lol and not very well cut.
Click to expand...

Agreed. But 70% depth on OEC sounds really deep - maybe more typical of OMC?
 
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