How to buy a vintage OEC?

[Dreamer_D]

Agreed. But 70% depth on OEC sounds really deep - maybe more typical of OMC?

Yeah 70 was rounding. 65-68 seems more typical.

 

[EllieTO]

Thank you both! Since they are no's (I was leaning towards no myself), I'll share the certs. They are both vintage.

#3: https://www.gia.edu/report-check?locale=en_US&reportno=2231263974

#4: https://www.gia.edu/report-check?locale=en_US&reportno=7235236956

I'm working with a trusted PS vendor and he will show me his favorites from his stock on Monday. These were ones I asked for, and I clearly didn't do well.

Thanks for the tips on what depth and table to look for.

 

[maryjane04]

So glad you're working with someone @EllieTO and feel free to come back and post more videos etc for us to help you assess!

 

[EllieTO]

Thank you, I definitely will! I'm going to go back to Collins as well, and it's nice that they let me take pictures/videos and provide the certs. They're really transparent with prices on their IG too, so I don't feel bad posting here.

How about this at OWD? It's smaller than I probably want, especially for that price, but I think it looks pretty.
https://oldworlddiamonds.com/favorite-details.php?ID=51&sort=price-asc

I don't like any others on OWD Favorites list that are a bit larger and lower color to be in my budget ($5-7K, can go higher if I fall in love and you all approve).

 

[Dreamer_D]

Watch out for extremely thin girdles. Usually it means you will need a more protective setting.

 

[EllieTO]

Watch out for extremely thin girdles. Usually it means you will need a more protective setting.

Would this be protective enough, or do you mean a bezel?

 

[maryjane04]

Thank you, I definitely will! I'm going to go back to Collins as well, and it's nice that they let me take pictures/videos and provide the certs. They're really transparent with prices on their IG too, so I don't feel bad posting here.

How about this at OWD? It's smaller than I probably want, especially for that price, but I think it looks pretty.
https://oldworlddiamonds.com/favorite-details.php?ID=51&sort=price-asc

I don't like any others on OWD Favorites list that are a bit larger and lower color to be in my budget ($5-7K, can go higher if I fall in love and you all approve).

I think it's pretty too but like you said you'd probably want larger. I think the depth and table on this stone is pretty bang on. If you find something with similar proportions then it's worth investigating.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Would this be protective enough, or do you mean a bezel?

Might be ok depends how you wear your rings.

 

[lulu_ma]

I love these proportions:

 

[EllieTO]

Might be ok depends how you wear your rings.

Thanks for the advice. I will try to stay away from extremely thin, but I don't think it will be a deal breaker. I will insure it anyway.

 

[lovedogs]

I wasn't a fan of #3 or 4, so I'm glad you ruled those out for now

 

[TruLuv858]

Just popping in to say you've got some great PS'ers who are Old Cut experts helping you here, so you are in good hands! Also happy to hear you are working with a PS Vendor... I will say the pattern of the first video you showed was BEAUTIFUL in terms of faceting, the second video shows lack of fire and definition of the flowery pattern. "Coco" the OEC in my avatar has a very distinctive flower pattern, and has a thinner girdle, but not extremely thin (very common in old cuts, and usually an indicator it is indeed an older cut). First thing is to determine is your color tolerance, Old Cuts re VERY forgiving... Coco is an O/P, and a SUPER BRIGHT WHITE one at that, she faces up pretty white, in other lights creamy ivory, and from the side you can definitely see her warmth... While gorgeous, I quickly realized that O/P was just too warm for me and once I saw it, I couldn't "unsee" it, despite her perfect pattern, cut and spread- if she was a J/K/L, she would have been the most perfect stone for me... there are just so many variables in old cuts which is truly what makes them so unique! @lulu_ma was my sounding board during my search, and helped me zone in...

Make sure to check out SinCity Finds, xothebijouxbox, and Alex Parks who have an incredible eye for OEC's and are always a great value! You just have to be QUICK, so turn on the notifications.

Keep sharing with us!

 

[lulu_ma]

Thanks for the advice. I will try to stay away from extremely thin, but I don't think it will be a deal breaker. I will insure it anyway.

A lot of authentic antiques have extremely thin to thin girdles. I think for your desired setting it would be fine. If you wanted a 4 prong solitaire, then there wouldn't be enough protection for the girdle.

 

[lavenderdragonfly23]

I think @maryjane04 mentioned GuildedLanes transitional she had coming up… I’m just popping in to say she just listed it. I’ll come back and add more later, just wanted to make sure you saw… it’s beautiful and priced very well… but might be too warm for you…. Dang it! I went back to see what it was, it was a 2ct+ J transitional for $11k. But it sold while I was typing

 

[lulu_ma]

I think @maryjane04 mentioned GuildedLanes transitional she had coming up… I’m just popping in to say she just listed it. I’ll come back and add more later, just wanted to make sure you saw… it’s beautiful and priced very well… but might be too warm for you…. Dang it! I went back to see what it was, it was a 2ct+ J transitional for $11k. But it sold while I was typing

57% but worked in that setting due to the bezel.

 

[EllieTO]

Just popping in to say you've got some great PS'ers who are Old Cut experts helping you here, so you are in good hands! Also happy to hear you are working with a PS Vendor... I will say the pattern of the first video you showed was BEAUTIFUL in terms of faceting, the second video shows lack of fire and definition of the flowery pattern. "Coco" the OEC in my avatar has a very distinctive flower pattern, and has a thinner girdle, but not extremely thin (very common in old cuts, and usually an indicator it is indeed an older cut). First thing is to determine is your color tolerance, Old Cuts re VERY forgiving... Coco is an O/P, and a SUPER BRIGHT WHITE one at that, she faces up pretty white, in other lights creamy ivory, and from the side you can definitely see her warmth... While gorgeous, I quickly realized that O/P was just too warm for me and once I saw it, I couldn't "unsee" it, despite her perfect pattern, cut and spread- if she was a J/K/L, she would have been the most perfect stone for me... there are just so many variables in old cuts which is truly what makes them so unique! @lulu_ma was my sounding board during my search, and helped me zone in...

Make sure to check out SinCity Finds, xothebijouxbox, and Alex Parks who have an incredible eye for OEC's and are always a great value! You just have to be QUICK, so turn on the notifications.

Keep sharing with us!

Coco is stunning! I agree she has the perfect facet pattern that I'm looking for as well. I would be totally ok with the color, as I'll be setting it into yellow gold. I don't think I could put Coco into a WG or Plat solitaire though. Did you consider just resetting her?

 

[EllieTO]

Ok, I have a few more for discussion. I went back to Collins to take a second look because my first trip was very overwhelming and I was seeing stars by the end. This trip was in the morning, and I was struggling to see them well and take good videos.

First, I have to say I am really enjoying Collins. They are so patient and don't rush me, even though clearly I'm not ready to buy one of these stones and I'm taking a million videos. They also have an absolutely fantastic collection, more vintage stones than I would ever expect to see in one place. I'm only showing selected ones for discussion here, they have dozens of all sizes! They have gorgeous estate jewelery and other pieces they make in house as well. I highly recommend them based on my experience so far. 100% worth a trip if you're within a few hours drive, or if you're visiting LA and have time for a day trip.

Let's start with additional thoughts on the two stones that I posted from my first visit.

#1 - 1.89 L VS2
I looked at this one again, this time out of the case as well, but didn't take any new videos. I think this is the prettiest one, but I can't pull the trigger because it's out of my target price range and probably a bit larger than I have in mind for everyday wear in the CVB Cora. I may decide to go up later, but not ready yet.
Reposting crappy video from first trip, does not do it justice:

https://imgur.com/a/AOssj5S

#2 - Shallow 1.72 S-T
This is the shallow one that I posted earlier - it was pointed out that clusters of petals turning off at the same time is not good, and it will probably lack fire.
I'm so confused by this stone. I spent A LOT of time with this one again, but I didn't take any more videos this time - I wish I had taken some from the side to show the crown and color. This time I noticed it has an almost flat crown. All the others have puffy crowns, this one is just big wide and flat. It's the weirdest thing... despite the odd shape and proportions, I'm seriously in LOVE with this stone (and being an S-T, it's totally within budget!). If it was smaller I would get it and love it despite what anyone else thinks.
I added one more video that I took on my first trip, scroll down:

https://imgur.com/a/7UF19Bn

New stones coming up...

 

[EllieTO]

I'm keeping numbering consistent within this thread, so two new ones coming up. Note that all of these can be sold without the settings. I didn't get the cert for either one because I'm not considering them. I don't love either one and they're both a bit above my target budget.

#5 - 1.72 J SI2
I was finding the lighting really challenging and I don't think my videos are good. I looked at this one a lot, thinking I'm just not in the right light to see crisp facets and contrast, But when I compared it to #1 which still looked great, I realized that I just don't like the stone. Maybe you guys can tell me why. It has potential, and I can almost convince myself that it has a nice facet pattern, but it's just so hard to actually see it. Is it just because the stone is smaller? It didn't grab my attention on my first trip either.
Video:

https://imgur.com/a/wyTQJ69

Edit: Here it is on their IG. It looks pretty, maybe I'm wrong...

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

#6 - 1.9 N VS2
I got better lighting for this one - I had my boyfriend hold his hand over it. ( I would highly recommend him as well, he's very patient too!)
I think this one had potential, but it's more splintery, not as chunky as I like. And again, larger and out of budget, so good thing I didn't fall in love.
Two videos, scroll down:

https://imgur.com/a/BUFdYlZ

Looking forward to hearing what you all think. It would be really helpful if you can point out what you're looking at so I can learn what to look for as well.

Hoping to report back tomorrow with additional options from the anonymous PS trusted vendor (who sent me #3,4).

 

[Dreamer_D]

I like the look of 1 and 6, but since they are out of budget you are torturing yourself lol

Number 2 looks nice. Sometimes shallow stones can work well. My American Cut only has about a 54% depth but it’s spectacular. It depends on the rest of the proportions. It doesn’t appear “flat” which is the risk of poorly proportioned shallow stones. The low crown likely helps.

But still like 1. Old miners yum.

 

[EllieTO]

I like the look of 1 and 6, but since they are out of budget you are torturing yourself lol

Number 2 looks nice. Sometimes shallow stones can work well. My American Cut only has about a 54% depth but it’s spectacular. It depends on the rest of the proportions. It doesn’t appear “flat” which is the risk of poorly proportioned shallow stones. The low crown likely helps.

But still like 1. Old miners yum.

Aww I'm really ok, not torturing myself. I am taking advantage of having so many amazing stones to look at in person so close to home (literally less than 5 minute drive!). And my budget is flexible, I just set it based on a ~1.5 ct low color. I believe in spending money on exactly what I want, and if I end up wanting something out of my target range, then I can do that.

My bigger concern is size. It would be a real shame if I upped size and budget closer to 2 ct and then the ring sits at home because I find it too much for a random Tuesday in the office. I bought some CZ trial stones off Etsy, so when I get those and play around with them at home, I'll get a better idea of what size I'm really comfortable with.

I didn't think #1 was an old mine. Interesting, I will have to take another look. I don't usually gravitate to old mines.

What about #5? Can you see beyond my crappy video on whether this is a good cut?

 

[Dreamer_D]

I didn’t like five. Not enough contrast. But you saw it in person.

1 probably wouldn’t be called an old mine by GiA but it’s a stone at the transition from OMC to OEC with a mix of the proportions.

You are concerned about literally a quarter of a millimeter then you are going to set it in a huge halo that adds 6mm in diameter! . Just putting it into perspective. The setting with have a far bigger impact on daily wearability than the diamond size.

 

[Scon_ce]

I actually kind of like #5. But not in that setting. The sidetones are too big/detract/reflect too much flat light?

 

[maryjane04]

I really like #1. If you hold the stone and tilt it from every angle, you can actually see each facet clearly. The light dances on and off so most of the stone is bright with a few off facets at any given time. So to me that is pleasing.

#2 most of the facets are either on or off. I can't really see the facets clearly as they tend to blend in with one another. The benefit is this stone reflects back a lot of white light but to me I feel like it's looking at glass.

#5 has potential but I feel like it's got a layer of grease on top so it probably just needs a clean and then reassess. It shouldn't be that much smaller #1 so size isn't really the issue.

#6 is more like a transitional cut and it's not my personal preference. Like you said it appears more splintery.

I also agree with Dreamer. You shouldn't rule it out because of 1/4 of a mm when the setting you chose is already adding way more in terms of size.

 

[maryjane04]

I found a thread for a CVB Cora. This PS'er has a bigger centre stone and also a bigger finger size but just wanted to show you for reference.

Elizat's CVB Cora

And the CVB eye candy thread

 

[lavenderdragonfly23]

#1

That center flower is GORGEOUS and the faceting is spot on, I LOVE LOVE LOVE that one the mostest. My personal flavor stone is an old mine/old euro hybrid. The outer chunky faceting of an old mine, but with a slight flower in the middle, slightly oblong - just a touch out of round … it matters not what GIA calls it, OMB or OEC because that initial title is based on a visual opinion of who is grading that particular stone. Old old mines are more square shaped with a defined Maltese cross in the middle. As time when by once you reach mid-late 1800’s to early 1900’s the old mines started looking like my Flora and your #1 stone

I am firm believe in following your heart, especially for pieces you will have for a long time that will hold sentimental value. Trust me, you will be staring at your finger for hours. You want to be in love with your stone. The last thing you want is to look at it and think oh it’s pretty but in the back of your mind think I wish I would’ve just waited a little bit. Saved a little bit more and bought the other one.

I just went through this, and I can tell you from experience if you can wait and if you can save just a little bit more, it’s worth it.

 

[lavenderdragonfly23]

Here’s #1 close up - it’s super blurry because it’s from the video … but look at that flower … it’s even prettier in the video- it has a beautiful light show, its facets go on/off at the perfect times, which means in person you will probably cry like I did lol!




That being said- this one from Collin’s video I thought was also super pretty… although it is giving more transitional vibes.




And remember- you can always ask, “what is your best price on this one”… and if you can pay in full that day you can sometimes get a little discount for that too. If they know you are interested in a stone, they will want to make the sale. You may pay a little higher premium for a better cut stone… but when it comes to diamonds, I think this is a place in your life to splurge a little bit. Save in other ways… eat at home, wash your own car, paint your own nails … buy the beautiful stones

 

[TruLuv858]

Coco is stunning! I agree she has the perfect facet pattern that I'm looking for as well. I would be totally ok with the color, as I'll be setting it into yellow gold. I don't think I could put Coco into a WG or Plat solitaire though. Did you consider just resetting her?

Thank you! She definitely is beautiful! I no longer have her, and she is officially sold and no doubt in the right home now... No, never considered it putting her in a gold setting...once you see it, you can't unsee it. I learned a lot about my own preferences after that experience. Some people just have more color tolerance, and that is so wonderful you know your color tolerance is so flexible, it will be so helpful when finalizing your stone!

 

[lovedogs]

I like the look of 1 and 6, but since they are out of budget you are torturing yourself lol

Number 2 looks nice. Sometimes shallow stones can work well. My American Cut only has about a 54% depth but it’s spectacular. It depends on the rest of the proportions. It doesn’t appear “flat” which is the risk of poorly proportioned shallow stones. The low crown likely helps.

But still like 1. Old miners yum.

I agree. I like 2.

I honestly don't like 5. It doesn't pop to me

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

#2 actually reminds me a lot of my ex ering. I haven’t seen it in ages, so I can’t do a comparison for you, but it was such a pretty stone. Shallow, and some of the petals did turn off at the same time, but it still was so sparkly and bright. You could see the pattern all the time. It was apparently estimated ST by the jeweller but honestly it looked almost fancy light yellow basically all the time so I think he was just way off with the colour grading looking at this ST stone.

I feel drawn to #2 the most tbh but that could be just sentiment.

 

[EllieTO]

@lavenderdragonfly23 - I did see #1 in person! That's my very terrible video. I spent more time with it the second time I went to Collins, out of the box too, but didn't take more videos, I think I was afraid of losing it from the holder. Everyone seems to love this one and I do too, so I think it's a strong contender! I'm going to have to play around with the CZ trial stones I have on order, to decide what size I really want to go with. It costs more than I was planning, but I'm fortunate that it's not a matter of having to save up for it or sacrifice something else, it's just an extra smidge out of savings, that I won't even notice.

I find it so interesting how polarizing #2 is. Thank you everyone for sharing your thoughts. Even though it's a 1.7 ct, because it's so spready, it's actually larger than a typical 2 ct. It's 1 mm larger diameter than a 1.5 ct. The largest diamond I've had was a 0.7 ct and that was 10 yrs ago! I do wear a 9 x 7 mm aquamarine cushion in a thin halo, but I just feel like a diamond the same size hits different... Maybe I need to wait for DSS to set in.