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2.3 ct RBC diamond comparison: Crafted by Infinity, WF ACA, and James Allen (GIA 3X)

cflutist said:
I am not the person to ask because I am an old lady that comes from the school where I want the center stone to shine in all its glory. I do halos around colored stone pendants but not on rings.

However there are many beautiful haloed rings out there (check out HPD's Facebook page). It is all a matter of personal preference. Your CBI will perform in any setting you decide to set it in. Congratulations again on joining the CBI family.
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LOL, cflutist -- you seem like a very young-at-heart "old lady."
Drizzle, I am an old lady, too, but one who can't wear solitaires because they just don't look good on me (oh, to have long, slender fingers like cflutist's and others on this forum). My setting has 0.01 carat (a/k/a one pointers) in the half-halo around my diamond. The diamonds in the scrolls are slightly larger. Your diamond will indeed less "dark" once set, mostly because raising it off the finger offers more attractive viewing angles. One thing I like about my halo is that the prongs are so tiny that the diamond appears to "float" above the halo.

My suggestion is that you post a new thread with your setting questions. There are many, many posters on this site who love settings and are very good at offering advice on the angle of the halo, size of the melee, shape of the halo, etc.

Looking forward to seeing how you set it, so you can add your ring to the "Show Me Your CBI" thread 8-):D
 
Drizzle said:
Your rings are totally TDF!!!! I have a total ring envy...and mine is not even completed :lickout: I'm currently considering a *very* delicate cushion halo for the setting, like 1mm melees around the center stone - do you think it'Il take away too much from the center stone?
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Oh a typo, my new ring is F-VS1 not VS2.
Could have saved some $$$ if VS2, lol
Could find the grade setting inluded crystal with a 10x loupe.
Also found the AGSL inscription on the girdle with a 20x loupe.
Wish I had a microscope when I did the GIA Diamond Grading class but couldn't justify the 3-4k cost because I was taking those classes just for fun. If I had a microscope it would have been easier because the technique is to zoom 30-40x to find the clarity characteristics, then back down to 10x to see if they are still visible before plotting them.
 
gm89uk said:
To be fair to the ACA, it is precision done but compared to the CBI it is a larger table with a shallower crown, more geared towards brightness than fire, which is exactly what's evident in these videos. Get an ACA with a 55 table and a higher crown height, these differences may not be apparent.

This thread is useful to show that the different personalities based on numbers on precision cut stones is very real.
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Thank you. The WF stone had a 57.7 table and crown angle 34.2, pav angle 40.8. CBI stone had 56 table and 34.4 crown angle and 40.8 pav angle. So yes, the CBI stone would have more fire.

I just looked at the top 10 stones on the HPD site and tables ranged from 54.8 to 57.3, the crown angles ranged from 34.1-34.5 with all pav angles 40.8 and one at 40.7. So these stones are going to have slight differences in performance, too. All excellent, of course. But I personally prefer the 34.5+/40.8 over a 34.1 or 34.2 ca because I do like more fire. So I would say that my WF ACAs likely perform more like the CBI and some of the CBI stones wouldn't have the fire mine do.

I love CBI stones (and certainly Wink and John) and do not have a single thing against them. But to say the stones are all perform exactly the same because of some mysterious cut magic is absolutely not true. Just as all WF ACAs are not the same. I would like some stones better than others from either brand, but I am sure I would be completely happy any CBI or WF ACA anyone wants to send me!:lol:

To the OP, I am so happy you were able to compare the three stones and choose the one that you liked best! I might have chosen the same one given the measurements of the particular stone.. I am just pointing out that what @gm89uk is absolutely true. All H&A stones do not perform exactly the same because the measurements do differ!!! I happen to like that each stone has it's own personality!
 
@cflutist who did your settings and does your wedding band sit flush? Would you mind posting a pic from the side or linking to i if you have in another thread?
 
When I bought my superideal diamonds, in 2006 and 2009, they both had GemEx Brilliancescope live reports posted. To me, that is a superb tool for buying long distance because it allowed me to scrutinize the character of a diamond, how the brilliance and fire played across the arrows, the size of the flashes, how splintery or chunky are the arrows, etc. But GOG was the only vendor who used that, and apparently they dropped it later. They used to post ISEE-2, Sarin, Brilliancescope, ASET, IdealScope, and more.
 
@AdaBeta27
Yeah I used to marathon "Rhino's School of Rocks" on YouTube during my PS lurking days!! As far as I remember, Jonathan was the first to start putting out high quality diamond comparison/education videos on the Internet and I think one of his videos compare diamonds of different cut grade side by side in multiple lighting (GOG Signature H&A, GIA 3X, Very Good, Fair was the line up I believe). It was such a shocker to me that I had my heart set on a H&A stone from that point on haha :lol:

My next wishlist is an OEC (still debating cushion or round) and when that time comes hopefully I'll get to see one of his August Vintage in person before making the final decision :love:
 
I am so late to the party but @Drizzle I wanted to say congratulations on your new ring!!!
 
Congratulations on your beautiful CBI diamond. This thread is awesome.
 
This is a fascinating thread. My takeaway from these videos and the ensuing discussion is that even within the super ideal branded diamonds, there is a "secret sauce" range that is super-super ideal and that's what causes those particular diamonds to sparkle bright and display plenty of fire. I don't think one can definitely say that CBI is better than ACA in 100% of the cases, but it would depend greatly on finding diamonds within this super-super ideal range. Is that the correct conclusion or am I reading into something that's not there?

The diamond I bought for my fiancée seems to show a lot of fire in some situations, but I have no idea if it's showing as much as it could since I didn't take the time to compare against CBI or other brands. That's why these videos are so incredible! The one we have is an ACA with 34.5/40.7, table of 55.9%, total depth of 61.8%, crown % of 15.1%, star of 52 & LGF of 76.
 
@Drizzle this is an amazing, fascinating and very useful thread. Thank you for the clarity and thoroughness of your videos, and organizing links so well! I know this thread will be very useful to a lot others.

And congratulations on your CBI!! I wish I would have the opportunity to do a side by side of ACA, CBI, BG Black and JA. If you ever do, please share!
 
That CBI :love::love:
 
Drizzle said:
For background, please refer to the previous thread:
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...lor-clarity-or-compromise-cut-with-ja.235191/

I decided to start a new thread because the previous thread's title was no longer fully reflective of the situation and missing one key player Crafted by Infinity.

TLDR: BF and I were looking for a RBC diamond that's 2.25 carat+, G color+, eye-clean, and H&A ideal with HCA score <2 within $25k. After lots of research online, I picked out a stone from James Allen (GIA 3X, also falls under AGS0 parameters) which I thought was a solid performer based on the specs. However, having never seen a "super ideal" diamond that's often highly regarded here on PS, I felt like I would regret making the final decision without the chance to compare them in real life first. To me, the Whiteflash A Cut Above always come to mind when I think of "super ideal" cut diamond, so we ended up ordering a WF ACA in addition to the JA. On top of that, several other PSers introduced me to another brand of "super ideals" called Crafted by Infinity. @Wink from HPD was able to ship a few CBI stones to a partner local jeweler in my city, where I was able to compare all 3 stones in person under multiple lighting.

I know for me personally, one of the frustrations when diamond shopping online was not having enough visual aids. Even with more and more vendors providing videos, photos, ASET/Ideal Scope, and even generous 30 day refund policy to "try it", I still found myself wishing to be able to see them IRL and compare.

While I found several YouTube videos comparing different diamond colors or cut grades (H&A, Excellent, Very Good, Fair etc) I haven't found too many reference points for "Super Ideals." So I thought it might be helpful to share the videos I took from my comparison.

The details on the 3 stones below:

James Allen: 2.31 ct G/VS1/medium fluorescence/HCA 0.8
https://www.jamesallen.com//loose-d...g-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3530614


upload_2017-11-22_23-36-14.png


White Flash A Cut Above: 2.22 ct H/VS2/no fluorescence/HCA 1.1
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3905123.htm

upload_2017-11-22_23-52-36.png

Crafted by Infinity: 2.31 ct H/SI1/no fluorescence/HCA 1.2
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD8620


upload_2017-11-22_23-56-3.png


Now onto the videos - please note it was hard to capture what I saw in real life to the fullest extent on my (not so great) iPhone 6 camera - so take them for what they are.
  • Under the jewelry store ceiling light - from bottom to top (JA, WF ACA, CBI)

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@Drizzle I'm located in WA too and was wondering if you could tell me which jeweler you went to when having these stones brought in? I'm in the same boat with considering WF ACAs and then finding out about CBI... so much to consider! Thank you for starting such a helpful thread!
 
Contact Wink at High Performance Diamonds. He can ship CBI diamonds to your appraiser or jeweler.

There are two CBI dealers in Washington state.

Green Lake Jewelry Works - Bellevue
Mr Brant Kane
www.greenlakejewelry.com

Green Lake Jewelry Works - Seattle
Mr Jim Tuttle
www.greenlakejewelry.com
 
Visiting Green Lake is worth the drive. Their store and designs are lovely.
 
HI:

Great thread!:appl:

cheers--Sharon
 
Thank you @rockysalamander and @cflutist! Just perused the HPD site for a bit and sent them an email with this question, but perhaps either of you would know? We are looking in the ~1.3-1.5 ct range so I figure these stones will be from their inventory online and not cut to order (maybe a dream upgrade for one of those someday!). Is there any reason why a lot of these stones have certificates from a few years back? I figured that size and price range would be fairly common and sell fairly rapidly. A while back a local jeweler told me to stay away from stones that have old certificate dates for a number of reasons... but I don't know if that applies here. Thanks in advance for any info!
 
Lore said:
This is a fascinating thread. My takeaway from these videos and the ensuing discussion is that even within the super ideal branded diamonds, there is a "secret sauce" range that is super-super ideal and that's what causes those particular diamonds to sparkle bright and display plenty of fire. I don't think one can definitely say that CBI is better than ACA in 100% of the cases, but it would depend greatly on finding diamonds within this super-super ideal range. Is that the correct conclusion or am I reading into something that's not there?

The diamond I bought for my fiancée seems to show a lot of fire in some situations, but I have no idea if it's showing as much as it could since I didn't take the time to compare against CBI or other brands. That's why these videos are so incredible! The one we have is an ACA with 34.5/40.7, table of 55.9%, total depth of 61.8%, crown % of 15.1%, star of 52 & LGF of 76.
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Thank you to the original poster for posting a comparison of the stones but this notion of some type of "secret sauce" is totally laughable to me, diamonds are a numbers game, if you know what you are doing you can go to most of the vendors that cut Super Ideal diamonds and pick out one that will be amazing. Crafted By Infinite stones are cut or in some cases recut to fit within a fairly strict set of parameters or numbers. Do other places produce stones that fit into these "magic" numbers - yes they do. Kudos to Crafted by Infinite for using them on most if not all of there stones but it's not "secret sauce" people it's maths, angles and cutting.
 
Wink just sent me the most thorough and helpful response about those report dates! Doesn't seem like there's anything to worry about there. I had only really read about WF ACAs on here before... but the HPD team and CBI stones seem wonderful too! Thanks again OP for this very helpful thread!
 
arkieb1 said:
Thank you to the original poster for posting a comparison of the stones but this notion of some type of "secret sauce" is totally laughable to me, diamonds are a numbers game, if you know what you are doing you can go to most of the vendors that cut Super Ideal diamonds and pick out one that will be amazing. Crafted By Infinite stones are cut or in some cases recut to fit within a fairly strict set of parameters or numbers. Do other places produce stones that fit into these "magic" numbers - yes they do. Kudos to Crafted by Infinite for using them on most if not all of there stones but it's not "secret sauce" people it's maths, angles and cutting.
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That's right, nothing to see here. Move along. Because if it were indeed true that there was a "special sauce," it would certainly upset the PS apple cart.
 
Lula said:
That's right, nothing to see here. Move along. Because if it were indeed true that there was a "special sauce," it would certainly upset the PS apple cart.
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Diamonds are diamonds there's no "sauce" "whichcraft" or anything else to "upset the applecart" to actually contend with. As you yourself pointed out if I gave the numbers of a CBI to Yoram F or any one of the other diamond cutters some of the vendors that sell branded cuts here use, I could end up with an identical stone, in fact if I looked through the list of some of the super ideals vendors have in stock currently I could pick out identical stones. Paul Slegers and his team are great at cutting round brilliant diamonds to a certain set of numbers, just as Yoram is great at cutting old cuts and French cuts etc to a certain set of numbers.

Like I said Kudos to CBI for producing consistently well cut RBS to a specific set of numbers, and marketing them as such. It's not magic it's good, smart business.
 
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Your new CBI stone is gorgeous! Mine too seems dark in certain lighting, but is bursting with fire in the best lighting. Congrats! :love:
 
@Drizzle Am seriously considering a CBI but I won’t have a chance to see the diamond until quite a few weeks later so have been reading all the CBI related threads to learn more. Your comparison videos in particular were really helpful so I was quite taken aback when @Madsal noted that your CBI diamond was purchased by @latte_espresso

Am reviving this thread in case you are watching it and receiving email notifications.
It appears you eventually chose to return the CBI and I am really wondering why and hope you can share your experience.

Madsal said:
@latte_espresso just seen your previous thread about the diamond you are getting. Isn't the stone you are getting previously owned by @Drizzle

This is the one from Drizzle's thread. It looks identical to yours except your certificate is dated May 2018 and Drizzle's was purchased earlier.
IMG_9816.jpg

Just wondering why the stone needed a new certificate, and @Drizzle did you exchange your diamond eventually? Did the inclusion bother you?
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@icy_jade I’m in the process of considering a CBI stone from HPD and I too read every thread re. their diamonds a few times over. I must say my experience with them when I started this process was excellent. The threads have been helpful.
 
I just want to add that @John Pollard clarified the situation in another thread which I’ve linked and also quote below.

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...clusion-acceptable.241702/page-2#post-4365795

John Pollard said:
Hello all. I was pointed here and asked to clarify the story of this Crafted by Infinity diamond.

A consumer viewing several CBI diamonds in Seattle during November initially selected this 2.31 carat for purchase. While the setting was being designed and created she continued to visit and view further options, and decided to jump to a different Crafted by Infinity diamond during that process.

Although this diamond never left the store, money had been collected for it by Green Lake Jewelry Works. The fact of a reported sale, even one where the diamond isn't set or worn, causes a situation where our policy is to have it returned and processed through AGS again for an updated report to verify it’s in perfect order, as an extra layer of consumer protection. That’s why the report shows a new date now.

I hope the information is helpful.
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latte_espresso said:
Thanks IcyJade, Wink from HPD actually called me to explain the story himself. However, I was too busy to respond to this post. But that's consistent with what Wink has said.

Great customer service from CBI/HPD!
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The customer service they offer is just nothing short of AMAZING. Wink is very authentic and top notch.
 
Personally I like the JA, than the WF. If I was not sure what my partner prefers in appearance I would go for the WF I feel like it provides a nice balance between the two. For my own taste the CBI while lovely is too dark for me.
 
I know this is an old thread, but the videos are great.
The CBI in these videos is the clear winner, really gorgeous.
However, the visible difference between the CBI and the ACA is too important and they should look more similar than they do, so my guess is that the ACA has some fluorescence and the CBI has no fluorescence.
 
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