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4ct diamond solitaire engagement rings

A

ambermeeko

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 1, 2018
Messages
4
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Hi everyone,

I am stuck deciding between 2 engagement ring options:
A.)GIA #6197371992
Price: $55,740
Link: https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/4.01-ct-H-VS1-Affinity-Cut-Round-Diamond/D42193327

B.)GIA #5192425396
Price: $59,813
Link: https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R402-252769065

The main differences are that (B) is H color and (A) is I color.
(B) had a HCA score of 2.7 which concerned me, whereas (A) had the much better HCA score of 1.8.

I know that seeing both of these stones side-by-side in person would of course be the best, but in this modern world of online shopping, that is just impossible. Just based on stats alone, what would be your recommendation? (Price difference is negligible in this case.)

Hearts and Arrows image attached for (B)
 
You got your GIA numbers swapped. It should read as follows:

Stone A
4.01ct H VS1
GIA #5192425396
57 table, 62.7 depth, 35.5 crown, 40.8 pavilion & 80 LGF

Adiamor shows the stone is no longer available. Did you reserve? If not, we are wasting time.

HCA score likely came back as 2.7 because the stone is too deep. Also, the crown & pavilion angles aren't complimentary. While you can make a 35.5 crown work, you want to pair it with a shallower 40.6 pavilion. While I doubt the fluor is an issue, it's worth noting the stone has MBF which means it should trade for less $ than a comparable stone with no/faint fluor.

5192425396.png

Stone B
4.02ct I VS1
GIA #6197371992
56 table, 61.8 depth, 34.5 crown, 41.0 pavilion & 80 LGF

HCA score of 1.8 popped back because of better depth and overall proportions. However, that 41 pavilion is a little steep for 34.5 crown. Also the H&A images is showing us you don't have great symmetry. Same deal with the MBF -- likely not an issue, but just make sure you are getting a deal compared to a stone with no/faint fluor of equal specs.

What you really need is an idealscope and/or ASET image to be able to confirm if there is any leakage or not. I suspect there probably is. But either way I would want this data before I pulled the trigger on a purchase this large and with proportions that don't give me the warm fuzzies.

6197371992.png
 
You are correct. I had the links swapped. So sorry!
The Hearts and Arrows file corresponds to the "H" colored stone from Adiamor, not the "I" from Enchanted Diamonds.

The stone is reserved, so that's why it's shown as unavailable.

Would you rule out the HCA 2.7 score immediately? Based on HCA alone, the 1.8 score fares much better. The tradeoff is the darker "I" color...
 
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Thank you all for the responses. Lovely recommendations. Could I get you to elaborate a bit on your selection process for these stones? Specifically, you are weeding out based on just the crown and pavilion angles?

I'd like to add that we are considering sacrificing on the carat weight for a more beautiful diamond. 3-4 ct range.

Here is one that caught my eye:
https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/3.32-ct-H-IF-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond/D42374953

Any feedback/red flags appreciated!
 
We search for stones within a narrower range of specs than normal 'GIA Excellent' since that encompasses so many stones and not all are well cut. These are measurements to help you stay in ideal cut territory:
table: 54-58
depth: 60-62.3
crown angle: 34-35.0 (sometimes 35.5 or 36 if pavilion angle is 40.6)
pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0 if the crown angle is close to 34)

The 3.32 H IF looks beautiful and does fall within our parameters. Because you said you'd be willing to drop size for cut quality, I will show you some super ideal stones. I will say that it's important to set your must haves. If absolutel best cut is your utmost priority, then a super ideal stone is the way to go but you will be sacrificing size and/or color and/or clarity. To some people this is totally worth it. For others, they are totally fine with finding a top performing GIA XXX stone that falls within ideal parameters, especially when you could get light return images from the vendor (or you could buy an ASET to confirm the performance yourself when you get the stone). Both options will be stunning, especially when you have PSers guiding you!
Another thing to consider is upgrade policies and the super ideal vendors have much more attractive policies, which is why their pricing is slightly higher along with the fact that they provide all light return images and have all stones in house.
If you look at this stones dimensions (not carat weight), it's the same size as the 3.32 you posted: https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4045005.htm :love:
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4043196.htm
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...ls/3.622-i-vs2-round-diamond-ags-104101164016 (they might also be having a 10% off diamonds promotion right now, I'd ask them about it because this is a fantastic stone!)
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/3.297-h-vs2-round-diamond-bfg-785649 (they'd have to custom cut this stone but I believe you'd be guaranteed these specs)
 
I got tied up yesterday but think I saw that 4.11ct stone with Enchanted also. Normally they have the lowest prices; however, I thought there was an ASET image if it's the one I'm remembering.
 
sledge said:
I got tied up yesterday but think I saw that 4.11ct stone with Enchanted also. Normally they have the lowest prices; however, I thought there was an ASET image if it's the one I'm remembering.
Click to expand...

You're right and the price is a tiny bit better as well! Only has heart and arrows images, which are very promising for the size and specs of this stone: https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R411-846731029?

@ambermeeko I would contact ED or Four Mine and see if they could hold the diamond and ask the supplier to provide an ASET or ideal scope. Since they already provided H&A images, this should be possible.
 
ac117 said:
You're right and the price is a tiny bit better as well! Only has heart and arrows images, which are very promising for the size and specs of this stone: https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R411-846731029?

@ambermeeko I would contact ED or Four Mine and see if they could hold the diamond and ask the supplier to provide an ASET or ideal scope. Since they already provided H&A images, this should be possible.
Click to expand...

Thank you for finding that again! I had looked at a few in the barely over 4 carat range. There was another one or two and one of them had an actual ASET.

I do remember these images though as I pay particular attention to hearts. There is some minor imperfections but it's very good and promising.

I would definitely place the stone on hold and request an idealscope and ASET image. I've seen Enchanted doing more and more advanced images so that might be where I start if I were in your shoes. Some of those images seem more hit and miss with other virtual dealers.

Edited to Add:
Forgot to mention, if you find the stone on RareCarat and use that particular hyperlink with their source string, I think the price gets even a little cheaper. At least it did for some other stones I was helping chase down for another poster. Truth be told, it drove me bonkers as I like a nice short and clean URL to click on. Yes, I realize it doesn't matter and I'm being picky. For a few hundred bucks I can deal with messy though.
 
ambermeeko said:
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B.)GIA #5192425396
Price: $59,813
Link: https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R402-252769065
Click to expand...

I don't recommend using Enchanted Diamonds. We purchased my diamond from them and although the diamond is gorgeous and we got a good price, working with them was a nightmare. They claimed not to have received our wire transfer for days when they had it, and their excuses didn't make any sense. It was scary enough that for days we thought they might be scamming us and we regretted our purchase. Their customer service was very, very bad. It all worked out -- we got the diamond and it's gorgeous -- but I would not work with them again. I'd go with James Allen or Whiteflash or Brian Gavin or one of the other businesses regularly recommended here instead.
 
I see some "specks" on the zoomed in video of the 4.11 ct stone, and the GIA report shows twinning wisps. Is this a cause for concern in real life? Also, how much color will I actually see in a mounted "I" color stone of this size?
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R411-846731029

Here is the Brian Gavin stone recommended by @ac117 that I'm also beginning to consider.
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...ls/3.622-i-vs2-round-diamond-ags-104101164016

Can someone give me their thoughts between these 2 choices? At this point, size and price differences don't really matter. Just want the most beautiful of the two. :dance:
 
ambermeeko said:
I see some "specks" on the zoomed in video of the 4.11 ct stone, and the GIA report shows twinning wisps. Is this a cause for concern in real life? Also, how much color will I actually see in a mounted "I" color stone of this size?
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R411-846731029

Here is the Brian Gavin stone recommended by @ac117 that I'm also beginning to consider.
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...ls/3.622-i-vs2-round-diamond-ags-104101164016

Can someone give me their thoughts between these 2 choices? At this point, size and price differences don't really matter. Just want the most beautiful of the two. :dance:
Click to expand...

The bgd is about as perfect as they come cut-wise. It is a super-ideal diamond. It has a small table, high crown and it is a very eye-clean stone. Size and money aside, that would be my choice. The other diamond is also beautiful, larger and cheaper, so that could be a consideration as well. I doubt that the inclusions will be eye-visible, but inclusions do show more in larger stones. On the other hand, it will be easier to upgrade through BGD, if you ever want to ulgrade the diamond.

Here is a pic with some bgd diamonds. The round stone above my ring and between my middle and ring fingers was just about 3ct for reference.
E48851BE-6500-4C35-91B1-297DDB8A92E7.jpeg
 
Agree with @SimoneDi, if money and size are of no concern then BGD will provide the maximum beauty of those two choices.

If you want to consider some other super ideal options then here are a few that may be of interest. All are quite lovely and top notch. My favorite is the 4.16 as it has a small table and awesome proportions that will throw lots and lots of fire.

Like the BGD stone, these are true H&A as well. Also WF has a more lenient upgrade program if you ever go that route. Simply spend $1 more and get full credit of the original stone. With BGD you have to spend $1 more and upgrade 2 of the 3: carat weight, color or clarity.

Both WF and BGD are excellent to work with and BGD is where I bought my fiancee's stone. However I would have zero issues going WF or even HPD in the future.

WF ACA 3.71ct I SI1 @ $51.2k
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4042816.htm

WF ACA 4.031ct I VS2 @ $68.6k
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4024626.htm

WF ACA 4.16ct I VS2 @ $70.8k
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4032893.htm
 
Also agree with @SimoneDi, if price isn't a factor, the BGD is also my pick as it's a super ideal stone and is guaranteed to be spectacular.

I've actually been eyeing the 4.03 that @sledge linked. I've watched the video since the beginning of September and have compared it to other videos. The clarity is based on clouds not shown...now granted it's a VS2 and I don't have the stone in hand, but I swear I definitely notice that it's less crisp or hazy compared to stones in other videos. Now I'm more than positive that WF vets each and every stone thoroughly before designating them as an ACA but personally, this would be a mind clean thing and I wouldn't be ok with it.

@Texas Leaguer Bryan, I had thought about pinging you about this stone but I know you have enough on your plate. However, since it's been suggested and I've made this observation, perhaps you could have the stone pulled/compared and weigh in? =)2 https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4024626.htm
 
ac117 said:
Also agree with @SimoneDi, if price isn't a factor, the BGD is also my pick as it's a super ideal stone and is guaranteed to be spectacular.

I've actually been eyeing the 4.03 that @sledge linked. I've watched the video since the beginning of September and have compared it to other videos. The clarity is based on clouds not shown...now granted it's a VS2 and I don't have the stone in hand, but I swear I definitely notice that it's less crisp or hazy compared to stones in other videos. Now I'm more than positive that WF vets each and every stone thoroughly before designating them as an ACA but personally, this would be a mind clean thing and I wouldn't be ok with it.

@Texas Leaguer Bryan, I had thought about pinging you about this stone but I know you have enough on your plate. However, since it's been suggested and I've made this observation, perhaps you could have the stone pulled/compared and weigh in? =)2 https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4024626.htm
Click to expand...

I'm on my mobile but will take another look when I'm on my big dual monitors.

Just looking at the cert it appears to be a rather clean VS2. Crystals were the grade setting inclusion and only thing shown on the plot. Usually the additional clouds not shown note is okay when clouds aren't the grade setter.

Hoping it was just a dirty camera or something but I have zero doubts we will know soon enough.
 
sledge said:
I'm on my mobile but will take another look when I'm on my big dual monitors.

Just looking at the cert it appears to be a rather clean VS2. Crystals were the grade setting inclusion and only thing shown on the plot. Usually the additional clouds not shown note is okay when clouds aren't the grade setter.

Hoping it was just a dirty camera or something but I have zero doubts we will know soon enough.
Click to expand...

Sledge, please read the ags report before making assumptions. The report states: “Clarity grade based on clouds not shown.” - very different than “additional clouds not shown”.

I am personally also interested to hear @Texas Leaguer’s input here as WF is an honest and transparent company. Nonetheless, I am also able to clearly notice haziness to the diamond in the video.
 
SimoneDi said:
Sledge, please read the ags report before making assumptions. The report states: “Clarity grade based on clouds not shown.” - very different than “additional clouds not shown”.

I am personally also interested to hear @Texas Leaguer’s input here as WF is an honest and transparent company. Nonetheless, I am also able to clearly notice haziness to the diamond in the video.
Click to expand...

Still on my mobile.

My apologies on the misread. This was not intentional and had I noticed it before I wouldn't have recommended it without a warning to verify.

Agree that the two statements have entirely different meanings.

:blackeye: :blackeye: :blackeye:
 
ac117 said:
Also agree with @SimoneDi, if price isn't a factor, the BGD is also my pick as it's a super ideal stone and is guaranteed to be spectacular.

I've actually been eyeing the 4.03 that @sledge linked. I've watched the video since the beginning of September and have compared it to other videos. The clarity is based on clouds not shown...now granted it's a VS2 and I don't have the stone in hand, but I swear I definitely notice that it's less crisp or hazy compared to stones in other videos. Now I'm more than positive that WF vets each and every stone thoroughly before designating them as an ACA but personally, this would be a mind clean thing and I wouldn't be ok with it.

@Texas Leaguer Bryan, I had thought about pinging you about this stone but I know you have enough on your plate. However, since it's been suggested and I've made this observation, perhaps you could have the stone pulled/compared and weigh in? =)2 https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4024626.htm
Click to expand...
Hello @ac117 ,
I have taken another look at the stone in question. It is nice and crisp in normal overhead lighting.

Our video setup includes some hard lighting from the sides which tend to illuminate inclusions in ways that rarely if ever happen in normal lighting environments. Things like clouds and twinning wisps that might be transparent in real world viewing can sometimes make the stone look less crisp in the video.

We do evaluate our A CUT ABOVE brand for any inclusion-based impacts on transparency. That particular vetting process involves a number of folks including both the gemological review team and photography team. Our records indicate that there were no concerns raised by any of us in regards to this diamond.

I will add that the comment "clarity grade based on clouds" in an Si1 is a big red flag for us. It is not uncommon for such diamonds to have slightly diminished crispness. You will therefore see very few of them in A CUT ABOVE. In the VS grades it unusual to see a noticeable transparency deficit in overhead lighting, but it still deserves extra attention.
 
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Texas Leaguer said:
Hello @ac117 ,
I have taken another look at the stone in question. It is nice and crisp in normal overhead lighting.

Our video setup includes some hard lighting from the sides which tend to illuminate inclusions in ways that rarely if ever happen in normal lighting environments. Things like clouds and twinning wisps that might be transparent in real world viewing can sometimes make the stone look less crisp in the video.

We do evaluate our A CUT ABOVE brand for any inclusion-based impacts on transparency. That particular vetting process involves a number of folks including both the gemological review team and photography team. Our records indicate that there were no concerns raised by any of us in regards to this diamond.

I will add that the comment "clarity grade based on clouds" in an Si1 is a big red flag for us. It is not uncommon for such diamonds to have slightly diminished crispness. You will therefore see very few of them in A CUT ABOVE. In the VS grades it unusual to see a noticeable transparency deficit in overhead lighting, but it still deserves extra attention.
Click to expand...

Fair enough and I figured as much but really appreciate you taking another look! It was the overall 'haze' at different angles that made me question the overall transparency, whereas with other stones it's usually just isolated to the area that has the inclusion. As AMAZING as the magnified videos are, they do sometimes highlight things that would otherwise not be noticed IRL :mrgreen2: Again, appreciate you taking the time to look into it. Just another reason you and your company rocks!
 
ac117 said:
Fair enough and I figured as much but really appreciate you taking another look! It was the overall 'haze' at different angles that made me question the overall transparency, whereas with other stones it's usually just isolated to the area that has the inclusion. As AMAZING as the magnified videos are, they do sometimes highlight things that would otherwise not be noticed IRL :mrgreen2: Again, appreciate you taking the time to look into it. Just another reason you and your company rocks!
Click to expand...
Glad to help. Thank you for your kind words.
 
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