A cuprian/paraiba question

[OTL]

Just wondering two tourmalines both are over 2.5ct and less than 3ct. A clean material green color cuprian with light saturation, or a very included blue color with medium saturation and neon glow, which cuprian has higher value?

I have attached two photos as examples. They are both GIT certified "paraiba tourmalines"
Thanks in advance for your input

 

[OTL]

The green tourmaline picture is a little misleading. Here is a more accurate one
It is really a very minty but not very saturated stone. With one inclusion easily to see, but generally speaking the material is clean.

 

[pandabee]

Personal pref, I like the slightly included neon tourm!!

 

[JewelFreak]

The neon-y one for me, by far.

 

[chrono]

This one is a tough call because the green is extremely light while the blue is too included.

 

[pregcurious]

The blue is too included for me. The green is too light. Which do you like better?

 

[OTL]

This one is a tough call because the green is extremely light while the blue is too included.

I know! That's why I can't make a juedgement call. I am hoping someone here can give me some ideas.

 

[OTL]

Personal pref, I like the slightly included neon tourm!!

Thank you for your input! I believe it passed slightly included to highly included though..

 

[OTL]

The blue is too included for me. The green is too light. Which do you like better?

Exactly! For me it's like neither or both ..Tough decision

 

[OTL]

The neon-y one for me, by far.

The blue one? Thank you for making a clear decision

 

[Lady_Disdain]

What is is your budget and are you flexible on price?

For me, the answer would be neither and I would look more, going down in size if necessary for better colour. A smaller stone with good colour packs a larger punch than a watery larger stone.

 

[pandabee]

Personal pref, I like the slightly included neon tourm!!

Thank you for your input! I believe it passed slightly included to highly included though..

Oops I missed that! You're right...I think the inclusions help give it a glow though...unless you think it would be detrimental to the stability!

 

[chrono]

What is is your budget and are you flexible on price? For me, the answer would be neither and I would look more, going down in size if necessary for better colour. A smaller stone with good colour packs a larger punch than a watery larger stone.

Lady D,
I feel the same way. Both options are not doing it for me, even if I should have a smaller budget.

 

[OTL]

Personal pref, I like the slightly included neon tourm!!

Thank you for your input! I believe it passed slightly included to highly included though..

Oops I missed that! You're right...I think the inclusions help give it a glow though...unless you think it would be detrimental to the stability!

I agree, I think it does help with the glow. I am towards this blue one now. Actual stone is more saturated than photo.

 

[OTL]

What is is your budget and are you flexible on price? For me, the answer would be neither and I would look more, going down in size if necessary for better colour. A smaller stone with good colour packs a larger punch than a watery larger stone.

Lady D,
I feel the same way. Both options are not doing it for me, even if I should have a smaller budget.

What about this one Chrono? Does it do it for you this time?

 

[OTL]

What is is your budget and are you flexible on price?

For me, the answer would be neither and I would look more, going down in size if necessary for better colour. A smaller stone with good colour packs a larger punch than a watery larger stone.

Thanks LD! The green one goes home! Blue one, stay!

 

[LD]

Blue will always be more valuable over green BUT the green is far too pale and lacks saturation and the blue also doesn't have the punch of a Paraiba and is included. So I would agree with Lady Disdain and Chrono that unfortunately my answer would be to not get either and keep searching but I think you may have decided already?

 

[OTL]

Blue will always be more valuable over green BUT the green is far too pale and lacks saturation and the blue also doesn't have the punch of a Paraiba and is included. So I would agree with Lady Disdain and Chrono that unfortunately my answer would be to not get either and keep searching but I think you may have decided already?

Yes I have made the decision, I am returning the green one.The blue one is actually more saturated than photo...My bad.

 

[Barrett]

Green is no good...the greener the stone the less copper is acting on it's color. Green paraiba tourmaline is not anything different than a normal green tourmaline. The color of turquoise, gem silica, azurite are all caused by copper (malachite and others are copper as well but with a higher oxidation state which doesn't apply to tourmaline). Green cuprian tourmalines, even though labs will call them "cuprian", are not and should not be called paraibas nor sold at a higher price. Copper in tourmalines imparts only a BLUE color....

[yawn]
We all know that Cu+2 is the acting coloring chromophore in so called paraiba tourmalines..if the tourmaline was just colored by Cu+2 alone it would be that fantastic glowy turquoise blue to blue color every one loves.
When you trend towards the green colors you are incorporating Mn and Ti into the lattice and when you move towards the violets, and purples you are adding Mn to the lattice.
When you are buying paraibas you are buying for the copper but when you get these other transition elements into the fold they sort of muddle and displace the y-site which could have been a good place for the copper molecules. So when you have say an Mn+2 molecule in place of a Cu+2 molecule you are downgrading the effect of the Cu to produce the "neon"/"glow". As an example: say you have a green paraiba? doesn't really make sense..the Cu+2 is producing a turquoise or blue color stone but you have a green one in you hand. Where is the color the copper molecules are imparting on the stone? Don't see any blue just green or purple for that matter. If you have a blue-green stone or a green-blue stone then you are getting some effect from the copper molecules but as you move closer to the green end you get less paraiba-like.

Cu+2(copper)=turquoise(blue)="neon"/"glow"
Less blue/turquoise in the stone = less copper acting as a chromophore = less "glow"/"neon" effect.

Rossman says the green coloring in Paraiba tourmaline is due to Ti and Mn others say Iron.
Copper ONLY produces that cyan/turquoise color in tourmaline. Not green or that blue-green color. As an example this green one that the OP posted is far away from what "paraiba " is suspossed to be. That green is not being produced by copper in the slightest, but by either iron or a Titanium/Manganese.

Green = Iron or Titanium/manganese chromophores. it's really no different than a regular green tourmaline. It has to have that blue/turquoise/cyan to be a paraiba..whether that be blue-green, green-blue mix or blue.(turquoise, cyan, windex, etc)

 

[chrono]

What are your plans for the blue cuprian?

 

[Barrett]

That 32ct one buddy posted in the other thread is classic paraiba color

 

[OTL]

Green is no good...the greener the stone the less copper is acting on it's color. Green paraiba tourmaline is not anything different than a normal green tourmaline. The color of turquoise, gem silica, azurite are all caused by copper (malachite and others are copper as well but with a higher oxidation state which doesn't apply to tourmaline). Green cuprian tourmalines, even though labs will call them "cuprian", are not and should not be called paraibas nor sold at a higher price. Copper in tourmalines imparts only a BLUE color....

[yawn]
We all know that Cu+2 is the acting coloring chromophore in so called paraiba tourmalines..if the tourmaline was just colored by Cu+2 alone it would be that fantastic glowy turquoise blue to blue color every one loves.
When you trend towards the green colors you are incorporating Mn and Ti into the lattice and when you move towards the violets, and purples you are adding Mn to the lattice.
When you are buying paraibas you are buying for the copper but when you get these other transition elements into the fold they sort of muddle and displace the y-site which could have been a good place for the copper molecules. So when you have say an Mn+2 molecule in place of a Cu+2 molecule you are downgrading the effect of the Cu to produce the "neon"/"glow". As an example: say you have a green paraiba? doesn't really make sense..the Cu+2 is producing a turquoise or blue color stone but you have a green one in you hand. Where is the color the copper molecules are imparting on the stone? Don't see any blue just green or purple for that matter. If you have a blue-green stone or a green-blue stone then you are getting some effect from the copper molecules but as you move closer to the green end you get less paraiba-like.

Cu+2(copper)=turquoise(blue)="neon"/"glow"
Less blue/turquoise in the stone = less copper acting as a chromophore = less "glow"/"neon" effect.

Rossman says the green coloring in Paraiba tourmaline is due to Ti and Mn others say Iron.
Copper ONLY produces that cyan/turquoise color in tourmaline. Not green or that blue-green color. As an example this green one that the OP posted is far away from what "paraiba " is suspossed to be. That green is not being produced by copper in the slightest, but by either iron or a Titanium/Manganese.

Green = Iron or Titanium/manganese chromophores. it's really no different than a regular green tourmaline. It has to have that blue/turquoise/cyan to be a paraiba..whether that be blue-green, green-blue mix or blue.(turquoise, cyan, windex, etc)

Thanks Barrett, I have seen this educational post fom other thread. It is very helpful. Well I don't really know much about paraiba, or cuprian. I like both blue and green ones, I own both too. They all have certain amount of glow, though. So I have no problem with blue or green color cuprians as long as they are saturated enough and that I can see some sort of glow, that glow does make a difference with other non-copper and manganese bearing tourmalines no matter how little the glow is, I just can tell. I remembered somewhere on this forum I have read a definition of paraiba, the color range actually includes blue, blue-green and green with medium or higher saturation? But I could be wrong.

I am by no means considering these two stones to the 32ct stone or the new tiny stone Greg just posted. I am just starting to collect cuprians, and hope something really nice would happen soon!

I have returned the light green one, it is just too light, thanks for all your inputs!

 

[OTL]

What are your plans for the blue cuprian?

no plans I am very very slow making jewelerys... I would probably make only two rings this year...So I have no idea when will I get this stone set

And because this stone is highly included, I am afraid to break it if set, so probably just leave it in the gem box