A moment to be grateful for your MIL ....

[iheartscience]

As I've mentioned before on PS, I'm a firm believer in how the guest's needs should come before the host's. If you invite somebody over, you should be willing to accommodate them; that means not being upset if they don't eat something that you served (as a host you really should check what their dietary requirements are beforehand)

Hmm, mayerling. That sounds like the attitude of a paying guest in a restaurant. Yeah, when I'm paying a hefty bill in a restaurant you better bet I'm going to make sure my needs get met first - the customer is always right, and all that.

But when I'm visitng someone's home and they are footing the time, money, and effort for my stay and all I have to do is show up, I think its just common courtesy to try not to disrupt their household and its routine as much as possible.

Hmm...how does someone sleeping disrupt a household routine? When I have guests I never mind if they want to sleep in-that way I can have quiet time to myself. I've always been taught that when you have a guest you should do your best to make them comfortable.

Like I said above, it depends. If the hostess has a group activity planned for the family and guests and one guest is late, that can be annoying to the other guests as well as the hostess. I've been invited to weekends in the country with horseback riding and other things planned and when one guest is habitually late, whether because of sleeping in or whatever, it is annoying.

But I think in this case, these people are wealthy and so may have housemaids on half days on the weekends to tidy up the rooms after the guests have awoken, and they have pretty tight schedules to get everything done before they leave. One guest sleeping in can mean it doesn't get done by the time the housemaids leave and then the hostess has to do it when she's planned on spending the time arranging activities/things to do for all her guests.

I don't think this is a household where guests are invited for the weekend and are just expected to lounge around. Some hostesses put a lot of effort in entertaining their guests planning all sorts of activities and other sorts of entertainment and one guest that just goes by her own routine can really be an inconvenience.

You're pretty much just making up scenarios here. If the MIL has activities planned, she should just tell the DIL the night before to be ready to go by 9am or whatever time it is. I also don't see how the hypothetical maid scenario makes a difference. You'd rather your guests get up early so as not to inconvenience the maids? Hmmm...I think you just like playing Devil's advocate.

Maybe, but I'm basing my scenarios on the fact that she suggested finishing school and at finishing school they do teach you these things - like how to run a household with servants, how to host a weekend at the country and how to be a guest. That's the whole point of finishing school, they don't teach anything else. It was really rude for the MIL to say this but what she was saying was 'There are rules in these social circles that I know you're not aware of and people will be a lot more comfortable with you, if you are aware of them.

ETA: the maid scenario doesn't inconvenience the maids; it inconvenences the hostess - the maids are going to leave when their time is up regardless of whether the room is done up or not. Then it falls to the hostess who may have had other things planned.

Again, all made up scenarios. From what I read there was no mention of servants or a weekend at the country. If the maids can't clean the guest's room because he/she is still sleeping, the guest will just have to sleep in the same sheets two nights in a row-gasp.

But what do I know-I'm clearly not as klassy as the super cultured woman who sent an incredibly rude email to her son's future wife. Not that I'm complaining-I'm happy to be surrounded by common folk who don't put other people down via email under the guise of proper etiquette.

Again, I said yes, what's your problem? I'm trying not to take offense but it looks like you're getting personal, thing2of2.

What did you say yes about? And where did I get personal?

 

[AmeliaG]

thing2of2 I'm not going to answer you any more.

 

[JewelFreak]

Deb, the version of the email I saw didn't have the sentence about diabetes. Just something about telling the hostess she wouldn't eat some things. Then complaining she didn't have enough food. The hostess's attitude here is inexcusable. So is the fact that good old Freddy (why would you marry a guy named Freddy in the first place??? ) didn't let the stepmother know beforehand. She cannot help realizing, though, that diabetics must eat at certain times -- I'm suspicious about her claim that the fiancee complained about not enough food. Probably a good reason she did. Freddy is a jerk not to be sure his FI is ok -- can be life or death.

I said the MIL's email was equally rude & she exposes her own lack of class thereby. Thing2 has a point that if there are activities scheduled, MIL should have mentioned it the night before. If not, it's still a little coarse to stay in the rack real late -- like, say, noon. But to expect a guest to rush out of bed at 6 because the family gets up then is silly. That's what hospitality is all about: both sides are tolerant of the other's comforts.

While Fi may have dug into the chow before MIL was seated, she could have needed to eat. There are much better ways to handle that. If MIL serves dinner at 8, FI needn't sit around & risk a diabetic reaction. My DH is diabetic -- if 6 is when you need something on the stomach, you say apologetically that a couple of crackers & some oj will do, so sorry to inconvenience you. Then you can eat dinner graciously.

Joking about people you've just met on their territory still isn't smart. Worth keeping your mouth shut. Something really set this woman off -- her anger is palpable -- maybe it was feedback from local pals that embarrassed her. She sounds like the type to whom that would be very important.

I still say that no thank you note is extremely poor form. Even if you had the worst weekend of your life, you write & thank the hosts for their trouble in having you. Period. No wiggling out of that duty. Small sacrifice to make for a relationship w/people you'll see all your life.

--- Laurie

 

[rosetta]

Daughter in law clearly has no manners but mother in law has even less!

 

[yennyfire]

Imagine what any children of this union will be like!

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

I think Mr.Freddy should take some of the brunt of this. It's his family, he should have warned her, lol.

 

[AGBF]

Deb, the version of the email I saw didn't have the sentence about diabetes. Just something about telling the hostess she wouldn't eat some things. Then complaining she didn't have enough food. The hostess's attitude here is inexcusable. So is the fact that good old Freddy (why would you marry a guy named Freddy in the first place??? ) didn't let the stepmother know beforehand. She cannot help realizing, though, that diabetics must eat at certain times -- I'm suspicious about her claim that the fiancee complained about not enough food. Probably a good reason she did. Freddy is a jerk not to be sure his FI is ok -- can be life or death.

I said the MIL's email was equally rude & she exposes her own lack of class thereby. Thing2 has a point that if there are activities scheduled, MIL should have mentioned it the night before. If not, it's still a little coarse to stay in the rack real late -- like, say, noon. But to expect a guest to rush out of bed at 6 because the family gets up then is silly. That's what hospitality is all about: both sides are tolerant of the other's comforts.

While Fi may have dug into the chow before MIL was seated, she could have needed to eat. There are much better ways to handle that. If MIL serves dinner at 8, FI needn't sit around & risk a diabetic reaction. My DH is diabetic -- if 6 is when you need something on the stomach, you say apologetically that a couple of crackers & some oj will do, so sorry to inconvenience you. Then you can eat dinner graciously.

Joking about people you've just met on their territory still isn't smart. Worth keeping your mouth shut. Something really set this woman off -- her anger is palpable -- maybe it was feedback from local pals that embarrassed her. She sounds like the type to whom that would be very important.

I still say that no thank you note is extremely poor form. Even if you had the worst weekend of your life, you write & thank the hosts for their trouble in having you. Period. No wiggling out of that duty. Small sacrifice to make for a relationship w/people you'll see all your life.

--- Laurie

I don't disagree with a lot of the complaints you have, Laurie. My way is just to accept that the world is not perfect and my daughter-in-law will not be perfect and to let it go.

Deb/AGBF

 

[JewelFreak]

Yes, you're right. This MIL should have done that. I'm not defending her -- she sounds like a witch. She needs to remind herself that Freddy's the one marrying FI, not she, herself. There's fault on both sides, which I hope will make them both reconsider their behavior. They have a long association ahead of them if FI doesn't come to her senses about marrying a guy named Freddy.

 

[Autumnovember]

People write thank you notes after having spent a weekend at someones place?

Wow. Glad nobody in my circle does that...that would be highly annoying.

 

[Circe]

People write thank you notes after having spent a weekend at someones place?

Wow. Glad nobody in my circle does that...that would be highly annoying.

Gotta admit, I do wonder how much of the thank-you note etiquette is generational, regional, and/or cultural. I wasn't raised to write them or expect them, but I have NO extended family - I didn't visit anyone, and the people who visited us thanked us IN PERSON with a host gift or a dinner out or something, and anybody I got a gift from was there in person and on hand for me to thank.

But it does make me blanch to think that, possibly, I've been very rude all my life, and there's a whole slew of people out there thinking I'm a boor because I didn't perform what is, to me, a redundant function! Ah, good times.

ETA: I also wonder how much of it is gendered ... when I try to think of anybody I know sitting down and writing a long-hand letter, I have to use my imagination pretty darned hard. But for the dudes? It's on a par with picturing them riding a unicorn. Perhaps they are writing their letters from a traveling secretary's desk that is anchored to the horn?

 

[galeteia]

I have to say, the diabetic angle puts a whole different spin on the 'what you will and will not eat' and 'not having enough food'. That was really, really crass of the MIL to complain about anything someone does for their health. From the picture, I hardly think that girl is a glutton, and maintaining a healthy weight while diabetic requires a lot of dedication and careful management of your diet. The MIL needs a lesson in manners if she thinks her FDIL's health is less important than what is 'proper'.

As for things like not getting up when they do, and not writing the letter, that's Freddie's fault for not giving his girl the 'FYI my parents expect X' warning.

Joking about the family in front of others was definitely a stepping in it moment, but who knows ... I get super nervous and blurt out things around my ILs, and it's painfully awkward. Maybe she's the same way ... and who knows how she might have been feeling after a few days of being couped up with people who didn't bother to hide their disapproval of her. If they had been trying to 'reason with' Freddie about her and how 'appropriate' she was, I am sure they made that loud and clear in their attitude while she was there.

 

[Autumnovember]

People write thank you notes after having spent a weekend at someones place?

Wow. Glad nobody in my circle does that...that would be highly annoying.

Gotta admit, I do wonder how much of the thank-you note etiquette is generational, regional, and/or cultural. I wasn't raised to write them or expect them, but I have NO extended family - I didn't visit anyone, and the people who visited us thanked us IN PERSON with a host gift or a dinner out or something, and anybody I got a gift from was there in person and on hand for me to thank.

But it does make me blanch to think that, possibly, I've been very rude all my life, and there's a whole slew of people out there thinking I'm a boor because I didn't perform what is, to me, a redundant function! Ah, good times.

ETA: I also wonder how much of it is gendered ... when I try to think of anybody I know sitting down and writing a long-hand letter, I have to use my imagination pretty darned hard. But for the dudes? It's on a par with picturing them riding a unicorn. Perhaps they are writing their letters from a traveling secretary's desk that is anchored to the horn?

I wonder if it is a regional thing too.

I think if I ever DID get one, I would actually be a bit weirded out.

Of course before leaving someones home I say thank you and tell them I appreciated everything but thats as far as it goes for me.

 

[JewelFreak]

Nowadays I think most thank you things can be done by email. But it's pretty thoughtless not to send some kind of appreciation to people who went out of their way to give you a pleasant stay at their house for a weekend or longer, even for dinner it's nice -- I usually make a quick phone call or thank by email for the trouble they went to. Even if you didn't enjoy yourself, it's graceful to consider that your hosts put effort & possibly expense into trying, and thank them for that.

Few bother with thank you notes now & it's a loss of graciousness. It also strikes me as a sense of entitlement. I'm thinking of my nieces & nephews to whom I've sent gifts. One nephew demanded money for wedding presents -- I could have gotten them something neat as I worked at Tiff's then. No, we want money only. I sent them $250, which was a stretch at the time. That check was cashed so fast it got friction burns, but I never heard a word from them. It felt like, "well, we deserve it, it's our right, we're a bride & groom," as if nobody else ever got married in history. When I sent a pair of heirloom garnet earrings to a niece for graduation, I never heard if they'd arrived. Not a peep out of the spoiled little rodent. When I called several months later to see, she gave a verbal shrug: "I've been awfully busy." Tough, kids, I'm too busy to send more stuff to you if you don't have the manners to say thanks.

Life goes along smoother if you oil it with good will & thoughtfulness.

P.S. My MIL disliked me all her life. My first sin was being American & "taking" her 1st-born son away from Holland. Yeah, I kidnapped him; he didn't make the decision to move here before we met! I never did anything right. The only compliment I remember in 30 years was the one time she said grudgingly, "Well, you CAN cook." But I never made jokes about her in front of DH or her friends. The whole crew re: that email sound like clods. Maybe they deserve each other.

 

[iheartscience]

thing2of2 I'm not going to answer you any more.

Okey dokey!

 

[iheartscience]

The full email makes the MIL look even worse. Ragging on her because she dared mention her diabetes? Yikes!

 

[zoebartlett]

People write thank you notes after having spent a weekend at someones place?

Wow. Glad nobody in my circle does that...that would be highly annoying.

Gotta admit, I do wonder how much of the thank-you note etiquette is generational, regional, and/or cultural. I wasn't raised to write them or expect them, but I have NO extended family - I didn't visit anyone, and the people who visited us thanked us IN PERSON with a host gift or a dinner out or something, and anybody I got a gift from was there in person and on hand for me to thank.

But it does make me blanch to think that, possibly, I've been very rude all my life, and there's a whole slew of people out there thinking I'm a boor because I didn't perform what is, to me, a redundant function! Ah, good times.

ETA: I also wonder how much of it is gendered ... when I try to think of anybody I know sitting down and writing a long-hand letter, I have to use my imagination pretty darned hard. But for the dudes? It's on a par with picturing them riding a unicorn. Perhaps they are writing their letters from a traveling secretary's desk that is anchored to the horn?

My mom had my sister and I write thank you notes on stationary that we got to pick out after we had gotten something or if someone had done something special for us. To be honest, depending on what the occasion is now, I don't always write a card anymore. I do follow up with at least a call or an e-mail thanking the person profusely though. Like I said though, it depends on what it is. For example, if we go to a friend's house for a BBQ, I don't send a thank you card, but if we travel and stay with relatives, I do. My husband doesn't do either one of those things. That's what I'm for, apparently.

 

[hawaiianorangetree]

I just saw on tv that other family members are now weighing in.

The grooms real mother said that the girl is actually rather nice and the family was being mean to her.

The brides father said the step mum has her head so far up her that he doesn't know if she's talking or f*rting!

I would love to be a fly on the wall at that wedding.

 

[VRBeauty]

Gotta admit, I do wonder how much of the thank-you note etiquette is generational, regional, and/or cultural. I wasn't raised to write them or expect them, but I have NO extended family - I didn't visit anyone, and the people who visited us thanked us IN PERSON with a host gift or a dinner out or something, and anybody I got a gift from was there in person and on hand for me to thank.

But it does make me blanch to think that, possibly, I've been very rude all my life, and there's a whole slew of people out there thinking I'm a boor because I didn't perform what is, to me, a redundant function! Ah, good times.

Circe, that's also pretty much how I was raised... and no, I don't think ANYONE would accuse my parents of being rude, ill-mannered, ungracious, etc.

One of my SIL's was raised to write thank-you notes for everything, and raised her kids to do the same, which opened my eyes to American expectations, and taught me to write thank-you notes a bit more regularly.

That particular niece and nephew quit sending me thank you notes recently - I don't know whether to be relieved or insulted! Bt as it happens I was there when they opened their Christmas gifts, and immediately started putting them together, so I know enjoyed them - which to me is what really counts!

 

[Autumnovember]

Nowadays I think most thank you things can be done by email. But it's pretty thoughtless not to send some kind of appreciation to people who went out of their way to give you a pleasant stay at their house for a weekend or longer, even for dinner it's nice

Yeah, sorry but I disagree. Completely. I would never ever ever ever ever think someone is "thoughtless" for not sending me a "thank you" card because they stayed at MY home that *I* invited them to stay at.

I actually really don't think its "nice" to send one. I think its a bit strange and a bit over the top.

A simple "thank you, I had a great time at your place and I appreciate so much that you had us over" from the individuals who stayed at my home is sufficient to me.

Thank you cards though? No. I don't need it.

 

[VRBeauty]

Back to the topic at hand, I hope all that vitriol wasn't triggered by just the bride-to-be's failure to send a thank you note!

 

[VRBeauty]

I just saw on tv that other family members are now weighing in.

The grooms real mother said that the girl is actually rather nice and the family was being mean to her.

The brides father said the step mum has her head so far up her that he doesn't know if she's talking or f*rting!

I would love to be a fly on the wall at that wedding.

LOL - If there is a wedding! I think Heidi and Freddie would be well-advised to elope!

 

[JewelFreak]

People write thank you notes after having spent a weekend at someones place?

Wow. Glad nobody in my circle does that...that would be highly annoying.

I think if I ever DID get one, I would actually be a bit weirded out.

You'd be offended if you received an email along these lines?: "Great as always to see you & it's terrific to see what the kids are doing nowadays. The party on the beach was a ball. Elmer is still raving about your homemade ice cream. Not being a cook, I'm impressed by the time you put into stuff like that! Too bad we live so far apart but we're looking forward to returning your welcome next time." Cranky souls, are you?

It took me about 3 minutes to do, with making it all up, not describing real stuff. It's just what they used to call genteel, which essentially means thinking of others' comfort. Heavens, no need to get out a pen & paper & actually write it out with one's tiny hands.

I don't mean to be sarcastic -- that sounds it but isn't intended that way; I'm just chuckling at you guys. What else would we do with that time -- tweet, talk on the phone, look at FB? (Threadjack, sorry, I'm curious how someone can be annoyed by being thanked.)

The MIL, I'm sure, was ticked off by having her hoity-toity image damaged -- whether a self-image or a public one, who knows (or both). Seems to me it's one of the few things that will rile someone up to that nasty extent.

 

[jewelerman]

I agree that many people today need to be more aware of good manners and basically respecting others around you,but the contents of that letter was amazingly classless,rude and i think an attempt to drive the girl away.I really feel for this woman's son because now he sees what the future is really going be like between his wife and mother!He will always be in the middle, and he can that thank his ill mannered and arrogant mother for this humiliating experience.Maybe she will be humbled and learn from her mistakes.

 

[FrekeChild]

The MIL, I'm sure, was ticked off by having her hoity-toity image damaged -- whether a self-image or a public one, who knows (or both). Seems to me it's one of the few things that will rile someone up to that nasty extent.

Then she must be really P!$$3d off now!

I've always been taught that you don't follow up bad manners with bad manners, and ooo boy that was some nasty follow up! The MIL sounds absolutely wretched, and yes, while I agree with some of the things she said, the existence of the email itself and the TONE it was all said in was HORRIBLE! Worse than the manners of Heidi, I'd say...especially because she's purporting herself to be up on this manners pedestal!

 

[Autumnovember]

People write thank you notes after having spent a weekend at someones place?

Wow. Glad nobody in my circle does that...that would be highly annoying.

I think if I ever DID get one, I would actually be a bit weirded out.

You'd be offended if you received an email along these lines?: "Great as always to see you & it's terrific to see what the kids are doing nowadays. The party on the beach was a ball. Elmer is still raving about your homemade ice cream. Not being a cook, I'm impressed by the time you put into stuff like that! Too bad we live so far apart but we're looking forward to returning your welcome next time." Cranky souls, are you?

It took me about 3 minutes to do, with making it all up, not describing real stuff. It's just what they used to call genteel, which essentially means thinking of others' comfort. Heavens, no need to get out a pen & paper & actually write it out with one's tiny hands.

I don't mean to be sarcastic -- that sounds it but isn't intended that way; I'm just chuckling at you guys. What else would we do with that time -- tweet, talk on the phone, look at FB? (Threadjack, sorry, I'm curious how someone can be annoyed by being thanked.)

The MIL, I'm sure, was ticked off by having her hoity-toity image damaged -- whether a self-image or a public one, who knows (or both). Seems to me it's one of the few things that will rile someone up to that nasty extent.

I didn't say I would be offended, anywhere at all. I said I would be annoyed if that was the norm within my circle of friends. We don't do that and I'm happy about it. It might not be normal for you not to do it but it is for us. I'll say Kenny's famous line: "People vary."

 

[Octavia]

People write thank you notes after having spent a weekend at someones place?

Wow. Glad nobody in my circle does that...that would be highly annoying.

Gotta admit, I do wonder how much of the thank-you note etiquette is generational, regional, and/or cultural. I wasn't raised to write them or expect them, but I have NO extended family - I didn't visit anyone, and the people who visited us thanked us IN PERSON with a host gift or a dinner out or something, and anybody I got a gift from was there in person and on hand for me to thank.

But it does make me blanch to think that, possibly, I've been very rude all my life, and there's a whole slew of people out there thinking I'm a boor because I didn't perform what is, to me, a redundant function! Ah, good times.

ETA: I also wonder how much of it is gendered ... when I try to think of anybody I know sitting down and writing a long-hand letter, I have to use my imagination pretty darned hard. But for the dudes? It's on a par with picturing them riding a unicorn. Perhaps they are writing their letters from a traveling secretary's desk that is anchored to the horn?

I'm with you ladies. I also think it's particularly weird to expect a thank you note from a family member who stays with you for a weekend. Even before DH and I were engaged, my parents considered him, as my partner, to be a member of our family. They would never expect me to write them a thank-you after I popped up there for the weekend, so why would they expect it of him? Obviously this woman does NOT consider Heidi a member of the family yet (and it's probably doubtful she ever will, even after they're married), but that kind of thinking is pretty foreign to me.

To me, it seems like Heidi could have been on slightly better behavior and made a bit more effort to do things MIL's way, but I also get the impression that no matter what she did, MIL would have found something to complain about. It seems like a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. I get the impression that the MIL just doesn't think this girl is good enough for her stepson and their family, and wanted to stir the pot.

 

[slg47]

I'm surprised y'all don't write thank-you notes when staying for the weekend. I don't anymore when staying with FI's family but the first time I stayed I wrote one.

With this situation...I am more surprised that Freddie did not tell his fiancee more about what was expected...or tell his MIL about any dietary concerns.

 

[misssoph]

It's not really an issue about "dietary preferences" but management of a serious and potentially lethal health condition. This girl is presumably a type 1 diabetic and would have injected her insulin just prior t going in to dinner. Modern insulin preparations act very quickly and she would have needed to eat quite soon and have a certain amount of carbohydrate or run the risk of hypoglycemia including loss of consciousness which is a medical emergency. This would be fairly disruptive to a dinner party!
The same issue pertains to a long walk, diabetics need to predict ahead of time how much energy they are going to use up and adjust either how much they eat prior or their prior insulin dose, or again risk potentially life threatening hypo.
Thi sv girl would have had all his drummed into her ad nauseum since diagnosis as a kiddie
The future step mother in law must have known she was a diabetic, I mean it's not a minor detail. Most people would want to find out if there was anything they needed to do if having an insulin treated diabetic to stay. Either she didn't bother or decided sticking to her usual etiquette/routine was more important than someones well being. Neither look good .appearances are clearly all important
I wonder if the" drawing attention to herself" at the table included a demand for food so she didn't lapse into a coma at their feet!

 

[Autumnovember]

I'm surprised y'all don't write thank-you notes when staying for the weekend. I don't anymore when staying with FI's family but the first time I stayed I wrote one.

With this situation...I am more surprised that Freddie did not tell his fiancee more about what was expected...or tell his MIL about any dietary concerns.

Being honest, it never ever ever ever, not even once, crossed my mind to ever do it.

 

[AGBF]

I agree that many people today need to be more aware of good manners and basically respecting others around you,but the contents of that letter was amazingly classless,rude and i think an attempt to drive the girl away.I really feel for this woman's son because now he sees what the future is really going be like between his wife and mother!He will always be in the middle, and he can that thank his ill mannered and arrogant mother for this humiliating experience. Maybe she will be humbled and learn from her mistakes.

Actually, he can thank his dimwitted father for marrying the woman and his own lack of foresight for failing to disown any connection with her earlier in life. She's just his stepmother. If I were he, I'd throw her out with the trash.

AGBF