Ability to Read. Or Dark Side of the Moon

[pinkflamingo]

I don''t see problems here although I have heard many times that there is a "conspiracy group." Conspiracy group or not, I believe that you are better off here than buying uneducated. so, screw those who don''t like PS!

plus i like you guys here! hugs!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Wow, this is interesting. I am really not on any other forums other than some having to do with teaching children with dyslexia! I wouldn''t consider being on a forum where people are not kind to each other. I remember that thread and felt it was sort of refreshing for the PS administrators to state that the workmanship was shoddy on one of their advertiser''s products. It made me think a lot of them for their honesty. And I agree that John Q is a gentleman and handled it with class, as he always does. I hope WF realizes what they have.

I try very hard to be honest without deliberately hurting someone''s feelings. I know I have asked opinions on diamonds, and I wanted honesty during the return period!

I''ve really gotten sort of attached to the people here. I''ve said before, I''d be pleased to have most of them for my neighbors! Oh, the fun we''d have passing around the rings!!!

 

[CaptAubrey]

PS has made a lot of waves in the industry.

Some like what they do, and some don''t.

Some who don''t are civil about it, and some are not.

Some who are not civil, act the way they do because of legitimate concerns about their livelihood, and some act that way out of irrational paranoia.

And I think that about sums it up. Time for a beer!

 

[Sundial]

Everything worked just as it should have in that thread. The consumer pointed out a problem with a piece and even compared it to a similar piece from another pricescope vendor. Pricescope pointed out the problem to the original vendor and the original vendor took responsibility and fixed the problem. The consumer reported back on the finished result. What could be wrong with any of that???

 

[Ann]

THANK YOU for maintaining this forum.

Amen

Ann

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 7/26/2006 11:48:11 PM
Author: hlmr

Date: 7/26/2006 1:59:43 PM
Author:Pricescope

Please tell me if I’m still sane… Can our (Pricescope) posts in https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/eternity-band-with-rough-edges.43843/

No worries, you are still very sane!

Anyone can misconstrue and manipulate information to his or her own personal benefit. I read no bias in your posts, only a personal expectation for Whiteflash to take ownership of a mistake, which was done.

I don''t envy your job, but I do like your choice in music, (as does my 12 year old son)

!

This is so true. Honestly, people who cannot make a stronger argument based on FACT will *always* default back to crying ''bias''.

It''s unimaginative and it''s sad....but there it is. It''s easier to say "well, that person is biased, so I shouldn''t let that affect what I think" than it is to actually consider what''s said and really reconsider an already-formed opinion.

 

[Lorelei]

NO WAY can your posts be misconstrued as showing favouritism to WF - I didn't think it then when the thread began and I still don't think so now.

As to posters being too nice here, the complainee had better go back to their rude forums if that is what they prefer. I don't come here for anything but fun, relaxation, to help others and learn, as do most people here. I love the fact that PS is the way it is - a friendly place where we can share and learn, if being able to fire insults at posted pictures is what the emailer wants, and they enjoy deliberately hurting feelings, best of British to them - we don't want that here and they needn't participate.

ETA - as Kaleigh said she loves the sense of community here, I agree and I really think it is what keeps people coming back. It doesn't take much to look at the join dates of many members to see how long they have stuck around here for. How many other forums can say the same?

Also I wanted to say thank you to Leonid and Irina for the fabulous job you do here, keeping PS the great place it is can't be easy and it is very much appreciated by many of us.

Ditto Diamondseeker regarding Sir John being a gentleman - he is very much so!

 

[blodthecat]

I think to be a ''moderator'' you have to been seen to be completely impartial.

I''m not sure why you got involved, because in doing so, I would expected to see you offer your help to everyone who has issues with online vendors.

Your eagerness to contact WF, in an attempt to resolve the problem, is what has roused peoples suspicions.

It''s your Forum, and you are free to run it as you choose. But to maintain the credibility of the site, and to help quash the conspiracy theories.....it''s best to be completely neutral and not get involved with vendor/consumer disputes.

If you sit on the fence, and don''t get involved, you can''t get blamed for anything!

Blod

 

[pyramid]

I questioned this at first, but after John Quixote wrote that Pricescope were just pointing it out to them, I saw it as truly that.

I came away with the opinion that Pricescope was able to help the customer by providing magnified and annotated photos of the problem.

I don''t think there is any bias here.

 

[pricescope]

Thank you, Pyramid. I appreciate it very much indeed that you were able to see it through and weren't get mad because of our stern reply on your post. We sorry our reaction was too harsh

We just got sick because of this stupid gossip.

 

[pricescope]

Date: 7/30/2006 7:34:37 AM
Author: blodthecat

If you sit on the fence, and don't get involved, you can't get blamed for anything!

Blod

Understand your logic, Blod...

We do sit there unless we see our involvement can help a consumer to get a better service OR a vendor to provide a better service. Blame? We used to it and do not care enough to stop doing what we think is right.

Nobody complained when we asked Abazias to figure out how to deliver a lost lab report to their client. Why? Simple - it was not Whiteflash who are like a bone in the throat of competitors because of their bigger exposure on PS, and why is that? Because they have a bigger inventory in our db - simple but does not fit into conspiracy theory. Too bad.

Even sitting on a fence doesn't help much. Example:

Two or more members get into an argument. Someone feels offended (for different reasons, which we can discuss in a separate Pink Floyd-like psychedelic topic) even if there is no real rudeness or any other breaching of the forum policies occurred.

Offended members blame us for allowing such bullying on our forums and not restraining their offender. Even if we try to reason with them and be impartial, we are gilty by association anyway.

Add some vendors, testimonials, hurt egos, good and bad experiences, etc. into the pot: you've got the perfect recipe for conspiracy lovers.

 

[blodthecat]

Date: 7/30/2006 9:27:00 AM
Author: Pricescope

Date: 7/30/2006 7:34:37 AM
Author: blodthecat

If you sit on the fence, and don't get involved, you can't get blamed for anything!

Blod

Understand your logic, Blod...

We do sit there unless we see our involvement can help a consumer to get a better service OR a vendor to provide a better service. Blame? We used to it and do not care enough to stop doing what we think is right.

Nobody complained when we asked Abazias to figure out how to deliver a lost lab report to their client. Why? Simple - it was not Whiteflash who are like a bone in the throat of competitors because of their bigger exposure on PS, and why is that? Because they have a bigger inventory in our db - simple but does not fit into conspiracy theory. Too bad.

Even sitting on a fence doesn't help much. Example:

Two or more members get into an argument. Someone feels offended (for different reasons, which we can discuss in a separate Pink Floyd-like psychedelic topic) even if there is no real rudeness or any other breaching of the forum policies occurred.

Offended members blame us for allowing such bullying on our forums and not restraining their offender. Even if we try to reason with them and be impartial, we are gilty by association anyway.

Add some vendors, testimonials, hurt egos, good and bad experiences, etc. into the pot: you've got the perfect recipe for conspiracy lovers.

I understand what you are saying here.........but I don't think the 'big issue' is the minor bickering between individuals.

The internet is a very powerful medium and in terms of advertising etc....it's potential cannot be under-estimated.

So you either have to say:

1. 'this is my forum' and I will run it how I see fit....using my own discretion.

2. OR, this is a site that I moderate. The Forum is essentially for diamond prices, comparions, statistics and education. And is an essential tool for consumers interested in purchasing diamonds. I do not intervene in consumer/vendor issues, and at all times Pricescope remains neutral and unbias. The members are allowed to report their experiences good or bad.
And for this reason, Pricescope is seen to be completely impartial, its credibility unquestionable.

If you go with option 1, you leave yourself wide open to people who will always question your motive for getting involved.

Blod

 

[pricescope]

Blod, I'm afraid it is more complicated that you describe... Small bickering in public causes big egos to be hurt big time - you have no idea

. You haven't seen emails we are getting with complains how we allow such and such things on our forum. "You doomed if you do and you doomed if you don't".

What do you mean by "this is a site that I moderate"? Do you mean just "host" without any involvement/intervention or moderation (process of eliminating or lessening extremes)? See also Moderation system:

* Anarchy - don't think you would like that since eventually the quality of the content will deteriorate.

* Supervisor moderation - our case (see below)

* User moderation - not suitable in our case because "...user moderation will often lead to Groupthink, where any opinion that is in disagreement with the website's established principles (no matter how sound or well-phrased) will very likely be "modded down" and censored, leading to the perpetuation of the groupthink mentality." I hope you understand what it means in context of this forum...

Funny, some people tried to teach us how to moderate and offered to help with moderation while cannot stand other members on this forum. That would be really interesting exercise but we cannot allow experiments on humans.

Supervisor moderation. Eliminating and lessening extremes includes constant involvement/intrusion to eliminate things we think are negative for the community we envision. We also believe that since our advertisers have a lot of exposure here (as you've noticed "The Internet is a very powerful medium and in terms of advertising etc"), we feel that it is appropriate to help consumers.

Back to bickering and "sitting on a fence". What if bickering happens between vendors and consumers? What if someone post incorrect or unfair information? Where to draw a line between self-promotion and education? Etc, etc...

All these and other problems create rather complex sociological and psychological system where you never make everyone happy or find simple "black or white" solution.

RE: "The members are allowed to report their experiences good or bad." That never has been an issue here

 

[perry]

I would like to state as a person who has participated in other forums - and completely withdrawn from most of them due to moderation problems - that Leonid and Irina have done the best job of moderating what I consider to be a fair forum that I have ever seen.

This does not mean that we have not disagreed on somethings - we have. But normal discourse involves disagreement between on some issues people because are individuals with individual priorities and beliefs.

This does not mean that I do not sometimes wonder about favoritism - but complete impartiality is not possible in any human. Every time I have wondered withing a few weeks it seems to level out.

I am also aware of many of the types of issues that as owners and moderators of an active forum that Leonid and Irina have to deal with. Most of you don't know and don't understand just how bad and whacky it can get on that end.

However, overall - and for many years - Leonid and Irina have done a wonderfull job.

The result is that even when I personally disagree - or wonder about something - or perhaps see something I percieve as favoritism. I tend to give them a break - and watch to see what happens long term.

Good job Leonid and Irena; and please - Keep up the good work.

Perry

 

[justjulia]

From what I have read from participating on PS, Leonid and Irina are fair, compassionate, and overall a very first class act.

 

[blodthecat]

Date: 7/30/2006 12:53:52 PM
Author: perry
I would like to state as a person who has participated in other forums - and completely withdrawn from most of them due to moderation problems - that Leonid and Irina have done the best job of moderating what I consider to be a fair forum that I have ever seen.

This does not mean that we have not disagreed on somethings - we have. But normal discourse involves disagreement between on some issues people because are individuals with individual priorities and beliefs.

This does not mean that I do not sometimes wonder about favoritism - but complete impartiality is not possible in any human. Every time I have wondered withing a few weeks it seems to level out.

I am also aware of many of the types of issues that as owners and moderators of an active forum that Leonid and Irina have to deal with. Most of you don''t know and don''t understand just how bad and whacky it can get on that end.

However, overall - and for many years - Leonid and Irina have done a wonderfull job.

The result is that even when I personally disagree - or wonder about something - or perhaps see something I percieve as favoritism. I tend to give them a break - and watch to see what happens long term.

Good job Leonid and Irena; and please - Keep up the good work.

Perry

Hi Perry, you are a poster that I recognise as being a ''straight talker'' and I agree with everything you have said above.

I don''t doubt for one minute that moderating a site such as PS is an enormous task.

But the bottom line is.....(and I am not talking about interpersonal disputes or bickering (Pricescope can intervene all they like)

I am talking purely about Pricescopes ''alliance'' with online vendors. If they intervene for one person who has a problem with an online vendor, then they would have to do it for everyone. Unrealistic.....yeah it probably is!

But if you don''t.... you''re being selective with who you choose to help, and are no longer seen as impartial. There is no way around it.

Pricescope run a great site. The community is great and very friendly, and I don''t envy them the task of moderators.

But.....You have to keep your distance from the vendors....if you want to be considered as impartial and unbias. (even though your motives were genuine, and you thought you were helping)

Last post on this from Blod

 

[pricescope]

Again Blod, we intervene when we think we can help, it''s not always the case as we do have only as much influence on independent vendors advertising here, though some may think otherwise. For example, if we would get a report that one of them is selling a "Tiffany style" ring using Tiffany''s image right there, we would definitely contact them and ask to remove it. Does it help consumers? We think so and continue to do that kind of consulting even if our advertiser may not always be happy about it. Non-advertisers - consumers are on their own there.

 

[decodelighted]

I, for one, hope Irina & Leonid DON''T stop helping/advising etc when they get a chance to ... & keep actually participating in the forum the work so hard to keep available for EVERYONE''s use.

Maybe it works for some moderators/forum owners etc to "stay neutral" & bask in the unchallenged air of neutrality ... but, geez, it''s so awesome that they''re REAL PEOPLE ... with interests & areas of personal expertise & occaisional moments of "free time" to join in the fun!

I remember with particular fondness - in the very thread that inspired this topic - Irina offered to help me create photoshopped "buttons" for my PERSONAL WEBSITE. Just because I mentioned my struggle with photoshop & admired their facility with it ... off topic! In my personal & online life, I''d like to think that I offer my help when I can, when I get a minute, when it''s a project or topic or issue I''m interested in ... or if I know that I have the knowledge to help (i.e. posting rings people are looking for ... searching for stones etc etc...) We ALL pitch in and that''s what makes this place so FRIGGIN'' FAB.

But I can''t help everyone ... there''s not always time ... we all "pick our battles" and pitch in as we see fit ... to imply that Pricescope''s moderators have to give equal time & attention etc to EVERY complaint or issue in order to be seen as "impartial" ... well, they can''t. They''re only human - like everyone else on here.

I, personally, would much rather participate in a site where the "people behind the magic curtain" come out & play every once in a while. About dog issues or photoshop magic or colored stones or a weird time getting a cert from Abizas or WHATEVER. Emphasis on WHATEVER.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 7/30/2006 9:27:00 AM
Author: Pricescope

We do sit there unless we see our involvement can help a consumer to get a better service OR a vendor to provide a better service. Blame? We used to it and do not care enough to stop doing what we think is right.

Nobody complained when we asked Abazias to figure out how to deliver a lost lab report to their client. Why? Simple - it was not Whiteflash who are like a bone in the throat of competitors because of their bigger exposure on PS, and why is that? Because they have a bigger inventory in our db - simple but does not fit into conspiracy theory. Too bad.

Even sitting on a fence doesn't help much. Example:

Two or more members get into an argument. Someone feels offended (for different reasons, which we can discuss in a separate Pink Floyd-like psychedelic topic) even if there is no real rudeness or any other breaching of the forum policies occurred.

Offended members blame us for allowing such bullying on our forums and not restraining their offender. Even if we try to reason with them and be impartial, we are gilty by association anyway.

Add some vendors, testimonials, hurt egos, good and bad experiences, etc. into the pot: you've got the perfect recipe for conspiracy lovers.

You're squarely hit the nail on the head on this one. THIS is precisely true.

When I first came here in 2002, there wasn't any single vendor that got a lion's share of the exposure. I recall there were about 3-4 vendors who were often spoken of here....and then a few more developed a foothold, too. Chatter about all those vendors was fairly even in "face time" here.

It went on like that for close to two years. Then, three things happened, pretty much at the same time. 1) A second wave of new PSers arrived; 2) right around the same time, prices began to rise, and 3) Whiteflash bulked up their inhouse inventory with expert selection stones.....many in the I/J, SI range.

All of the sudden, it seemed a disproportionate number of folks were buying WF stones......and becoming happy customers who raved about them. That's only because of inventory. At that time, with prices rising, people were beginning to stretch to I/J stones to still make the carat mark. During that time, if someone wanted an I/J stone, SI, around the 1-ct mark, If there were 12 stones that fit the criteria, 10 of them were offered by WF. It doesn't take a mathematician to understand why WF gained more widespread exposure.

As Leonid mentions above, the sheer inventory alone is what bumped their exposure on PS. More people were buying from them, and most of them were happy with their experience and came here to say so. Within the space of a year, things changed dramatically. WF was mentioned all the time. As Leonid said, that became a bone in the throat of a vendor or two, who generally reacted by whining and complaning how unfair things are.

The few folks who've had trouble with WF and said so feel bullied simply by sheer volume. If 20 people respond by saying "oh, I never had that problem", they feel ganged up on, even though that's not the intent. As the moderator mentioned.....this doesn't handily fit the conspiracy theory, so it's dismissed.....but it's the way it really is.

One thing that hasn't changed here: ANY vendor who works within the PS policies and offers a wide array of stones at the price point/color/clarity increments that satisfy customers will do just fine here. If you offer enough selection, they will buy. If they buy, and they are happy, they will come here to say so. It's really that simple.....and that's been pointed out time and time again over the last four years. Honestly, it's NOT rocket science.

Incidentally, I think things are in a state of change again now. Over the last six months or so, I don't see any one vendor enjoying a dominance through inventory at this time. If anything, it seems James Allen has been leading the pack on volume lately......he has more inventory listed than anyone else. I think the only reason he isn't seeing more return on that is the types of stones......many are higher than 62% depth, many have tables of 58/59, and others are shallow/shallows. If his inventory reflected the primo numbers, though, I think he'd dominate here at this point....sheerly on inventory.

There's an old saying....'you can't please everyone all the time', and it's true. I think that the PS moderators do an uncanny and remarkable job of pleasing *most* people *most* of the time, and that's still a huge accomplishment. To those who would prefer to revel in their own conspiracy theories.....more power to them.

 

[pricescope]

Hey deco, thanks, though may be some wonder what''s our mutual interests are? You did not purchase anything from PS advertisers did you?

The truth is we don''t care if deco dug up her diamond on her backyard and had bite it with her own (

sharp, sorry can''t resist) teeth to the ideal proportions, we are happy to have her here. And deco knows that, though she was "moderated" too - just did not make a "Hamlet" out of it.

 

[gemnick]

Dear Leonid, In my "real" life I am a lawyer and a psychologist (JD/PhD). I''ve reviewed the postings for the thread you attached - and I didn''t see any evidence, at all, of your advocacy for anyone other than the consumer. I also did not see any signs of the "dark side of the moon". Keep doing what you''re doing, my friend - it is much appreciated by many. -Gemnick

 

[Mara]

oh but it's so much more fun to revel in conspiracy theories than the actual, boring truth.....i think it says so much about those who participate in that kind of thing. sad but so true. in a nutshell, 'consider the source'.

and yes, you will never be able to please (appease?) everyone. that's just the way life is.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 7/30/2006 3:30:44 PM
Author: Pricescope
Hey deco, thanks, though may be some wonder what''s our mutual interests are?

Dogs? American Idol? Oops - don''t think you share that one.

You did not purchase anything from PS advertisers did you?

Ummm. Nope. *blush* Not yet! Asscher & "Ol'' Stabby" from GOLDA on 47th ... Sleek fix of "Ol Stabby" at HUMMINGBIRD in Rhinebeck. And there is a glorious set of Jables "love band" platinum ring guards calling my name at ZIMMER BROS. in Poughkeepsie. Did have pleasent-enough, helpful contact in my Asscher-search with Pearlmans & Good Old Gold & Singlestone. Not to mention my current LUST for Wallermama''s new studs & w-band for that matter, Tacori E-rings custom wedding band, Pokey''s Tsvorite Mege, and, and, and *faint*

(Deco) was ''moderated'' too - just did not make a ''Hamlet'' out of it.

Was there a Shakesperean character that knew she deserved some "moderation"

.

 

[marvel]

For what it's worth...I didn't see any favoritism either. But, like Mara said, the conspiracy theory is much more fun then the boring truth. Keep up the good work!

 

[pricescope]

Thank you all folks, it''s what we wanted to know. Dealing unfortunately mostly with those who prefer to do their search on moderated forum but did not think they could have be moderated when needed distorted a big picture for us, so we needed a reassurance and we got it.
Have a great night.