ACA vs. Excellent cut

[adlgel]

I never thought I would do this, but I am actually considering upgrading my solitaire MRB diamond. My engagement ring is currently with David Klass to redo the prongs so if I'm going to do this now is certainly an opportune time. However, the objective of an upgrade for me is not about significantly increasing the size of my stone but rather the cut quality. When my now husband and I purchased my stone 26 years ago we were uneducated about the significant impact of cut quality on diamond performance. We went to a local jeweler that a few of our other 20-something friends at the time had used.

We purchased a 1.33 ct I/SI1 diamond at 7.09 x 7.04 x 4.36 mm. It is EGL graded so I now know that the because it was graded by EGL the color could actually even be worse than I although truthfully I have never disliked the color of my current stone. I'd like to get a better cut stone and if I can also get something a bit bigger that would just be icing on the cake. I've looked at Whiteflash ACA stones and see some good contenders. My sense is that any ACA stone I pick will be a gazillion times better than my current stone in terms of performance because right now I'm coming from a relatively low performing stone.

My question is given I'm coming from a relatively low performing stone how much visual performance am I losing by looking at Whiteflash Excellent cuts vs. ACA and how much money can I save by doing so? I feel pretty certain that any Whiteflash Excellent cut stone will also significantly out perform my current diamond.

My minimum criteria are:

Color: no less than I (although if my current stone is perhaps more like a J maybe I can go that low?)
Clarity: no less than SI1, must be eyeclean
Size: no smaller than diameter of current stone

I've got two ACAs in my Whiteflash wish list right now that are slightly under $12k. But I'd love it if I could find something closer to $10k.

Has anyone else gone the Excellent cut route rather than Ideal/ACA and do you regret that decision? Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[mx5_dvr]

I got one from James Allen and I have no regrets. You can get a good one from James Allen you just need to wait for an opportunity. I don’t think WF is worth it since at certain point, even cut wise, anything better is not that noticeable, like color and clarity.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I got one from James Allen and I have no regrets. You can get a good one from James Allen you just need to wait for an opportunity. I don’t think WF is worth it since at certain point, even cut wise, anything better is not that noticeable, like color and clarity.

If what you are saying is true then there are a bunch of fools here...

 

[mx5_dvr]

I did a quick search and this 1.32 ct G VS2 is under $10k. It will be much whiter than your current one and will be a big upgrade color wise. Cut also looks good to me, meaning a better cut than this may not make much difference from your eye. Experts can chime in.

Although not much but you can get $150 referral, which is better than nothing.

 

[mx5_dvr]

If what you are saying is true then there are a bunch of fools here...

What I'm saying is that it's more of a psychological thing. I want VVS2 or higher but many people are ok with eye clean SI1 for example. No one is a fool.

 

[musicloveranthony]

I got one from James Allen and I have no regrets. You can get a good one from James Allen you just need to wait for an opportunity. I don’t think WF is worth it since at certain point, even cut wise, anything better is not that noticeable, like color and clarity.

I know it's an unpopular opinion around here but I agree with you and I'm a very visually sensitive person. It isn't to say there's no difference under a magnifier, nor that I can't see a difference side by side if I'm looking for it. It's to say that there's no significant difference to casual observation; especially not to warrant the 100-300% cost variances I've seen.

That said, 3 of my diamond purchases have been Super Ideal, and 2 have been non-branded Ideal

 

[Dancing Fire]

I know it's an unpopular opinion around here but I agree with you and I'm a very visually sensitive person. It isn't to say there's no difference under a magnifier, nor that I can't see a difference side by side if I'm looking for it. It's to say that there's no significant difference to casual observation; especially not to warrant the 100-300% cost variances I've seen.

Based on what?

 

[musicloveranthony]

Based on what?

I'm not sure I understand the question

 

[LLJsmom]

Whether you notice or care depends on who you are. Everyone is different. I got my first upgrade from BN and had plenty of regrets. Then 8 years after BN, first getting an OEC and then still wanting a super ideal MRB, I went back to super ideals, first HPD and then WF.

Since this is not your first rodeo, I'll be blunt. I wouldn't compromise this time. It's your chance to do it again and do it right. For you. Other people may be ok with it, but I have a feeling you won't. At the least order an ACA and see if it's worth it. If not, return it. No harm no foul. Then you know for sure, for YOU.

 

[Dancing Fire]

What I'm saying is that it's more of a psychological thing. I want VVS2 or higher but many people are ok with eye clean SI1 for example. No one is a fool.

I'd understand your POW since some people must have a D IF stone but the G VS2 you linked above is nowhere close to the cut quality of any ACA stones.

 

[mx5_dvr]

the G VS2 you linked above is nowhere close to the cut quality of any ACA stones.

Based on what? Please educate us and explain why any difference would make noticable difference from eyes.

I'm not saying that one is perfect but I am saying any better cut will not be worth the premium. I could be wrong but I want to be educated.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I'm not sure I understand the question

How did you came up with the 100-300% cost variances?

 

[musicloveranthony]

How did you came up with the 100-300% cost variances?

From my own experiences comparing size for size, color, and clarity. Not that it's always the case, but that I have found instances in which it has been the case.

 

[LLJsmom]

Here are some for your consideration. These might be ones you're already looking at.

I've stuck with ACA's and given your budget I've compromised with less than $12K, bu more than $10K, but you get to go higher in color. Not sure if you're ok with that.

Diamond | 1.307 ct I VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4314005

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.307 carat I color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4314005

www.whiteflash.com

Diamond | 1.340 ct H VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4226211

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.340 carat H color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4226211

www.whiteflash.com

Diamond | 1.313 ct G VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4187421

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.313 carat G color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4187421

www.whiteflash.com

 

[Dancing Fire]

From my own experiences comparing size for size, color, and clarity. Not that it's always the case, but that I have found instances in which it has been the case.

Are you saying that super ideal cut stones will cost 100-300% more?

 

[Txborn79]

I know it's an unpopular opinion around here but I agree with you and I'm a very visually sensitive person. It isn't to say there's no difference under a magnifier, nor that I can't see a difference side by side if I'm looking for it. It's to say that there's no significant difference to casual observation; especially not to warrant the 100-300% cost variances I've seen.

That said, 3 of my diamond purchases have been Super Ideal, and 2 have been non-branded Ideal

Maybe you meant 10-30%? If not you’re saying a $10k diamond at say James Allen would cost $20-40k at Whiteflash which obviously isn’t true.

 

[adlgel]

@LLJsmom These are the two I've got on my wish list (note I'm using the wire price for comparison purposes as I would pay by wire). Both are I color but I assume will present a lot whiter than my current I diamond and get me a little boost in size as well.

Diamond | 1.442 ct I VS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4377167

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.442 carat I color VS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4377167

www.whiteflash.com

Diamond | 1.526 ct I VS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4384641

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.526 carat I color VS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4384641

www.whiteflash.com

 

[whitewave]

I got one from James Allen and I have no regrets. You can get a good one from James Allen you just need to wait for an opportunity. I don’t think WF is worth it since at certain point, even cut wise, anything better is not that noticeable, like color and clarity.

Let’s just say, I’m glad you are happy with your James Allen experience as it is a rarity these days

 

[LLJsmom]

@LLJsmom These are the two I've got on my wish list (note I'm using the wire price for comparison purposes as I would pay by wire). Both are I color but I assume will present a lot whiter than my current I diamond and get me a little boost in size as well.

Diamond | 1.442 ct I VS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4377167

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.442 carat I color VS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4377167

www.whiteflash.com

Diamond | 1.526 ct I VS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4384641

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.526 carat I color VS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4384641

www.whiteflash.com

I'm picky about inclusions, and could see the inclusion on the 1.5, but given it's a VS1, I would not worry about it. I would go for the 1.526. It's bigger and it's VS1. It's a great stone.

 

[mx5_dvr]

Let’s just say, I’m glad you are happy with your James Allen experience as it is a rarity these days

I wouldn’t say rarity as sales at James Allen are very high. I made multiple orders within 1.5 months to finally nail down what I wanted (basically switched from I to H) and order number increase is amazing, over 100k orders in 1.5 month (of course not every order is loose diamond). With free return policy, there is simply no risk.

 

[musicloveranthony]

Are you saying that super ideal cut stones will cost 100-300% more?

Yes, in some instances, VS a non- branded stone. Not a rule, an observation.

 

[musicloveranthony]

Maybe you meant 10-30%? If not you’re saying a $10k diamond at say James Allen would cost $20-40k at Whiteflash which obviously isn’t true.

Ah. Sorry, I can see where my statement is confusing. Maybe it doesn’t exactly fit the question posed.
To clarify, I’m not comparing online vendor to online vendor. All the online vendors have pretty comparable prices. Other sources can have much better pricing (some of the jewelers and wholesalers) and still have access to very well cut stones (if not sometimes the same cutters).

 

[mx5_dvr]

@adlgel I know you are ok with I color but I also know you were uneducated 26 years ago... I thought I color is ok too but in the end I switched to H because once you see it (the tint), you will always see it. Again a psychological thing.

If you do some research, G is the most popular color and H is the second most popular, and price jump from I to H and from H to G are both pretty big compared to other one level upgrades (like from J to I or G to F, etc).

There is a reason for that kind of demand for H or G... I’m now convinced H is the lowest I want to go.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I really think the 1.52 would be a nice choice!

I am thinking you were really asking about WF Expert Selection compared to ACA? I think some Expert Selection are great and fine to buy. So are some of the premium select! It just depends on the individual stone. I'll look and see if I see any.

I don't see anything. But I really encourage you to put that 1.5 stone on hold if you are really interested. The price is excellent and is less than a stone with similar size but lower clarity. You can put it on hold without paying. When it asks how you'll pay, just choose wire. You are write a note that you are putting it on hold. That stone is in a popular range and I doubt it will be around long.

 

[winnietucker]

Look at them in person if you can. I had a GIA triple ex and I honestly couldn’t really tell the difference between mine and the CBI in terms of performance. I know they’re different brands but really, the best way to know is to look for yourself.

 

[adlgel]

@diamondseeker2006 yes I was ultimately asking about how much better a Whiteflash ACA (or equivalent from another vendor) is vs. the next level down at Whiteflash (or the equivalent from another vendor).

 

[LoveMeDo]

If you’re going through the upgrade process with cut being the thing you want to improve on the most...get the ACA. Other stones could be very nice as well, but I think the ACA will be what really makes your upgrade feel special!!

 

[sledge]

Yes, in some instances, VS a non- branded stone. Not a rule, an observation.

BS!

Provide links where a super ideal is 100-300% higher. I've helped lots of folks find stones and super ideals don't require that much premium.

Think about what you are saying. OP found a $12k ACA in her initial post. You're saying a comparable 3x would come in at $4-6k. Not going to happen.

Ah. Sorry, I can see where my statement is confusing. Maybe it doesn’t exactly fit the question posed.
To clarify, I’m not comparing online vendor to online vendor. All the online vendors have pretty comparable prices. Other sources can have much better pricing (some of the jewelers and wholesalers) and still have access to very well cut stones (if not sometimes the same cutters).

Disclose the jewelers you speak of, and the wholesalers. Although in fairness, comparing wholesale to retail is a pretty unfair comparison.

 

[sledge]

I did a quick search and this 1.32 ct G VS2 is under $10k.

Based on what? Please educate us and explain why any difference would make noticable difference from eyes.

I'm not saying that one is perfect but I am saying any better cut will not be worth the premium. I could be wrong but I want to be educated.

This stone is being discussed in another thread.

Proportions may work. HCA scores decent. No advanced images to prove anything. Pass or fail will depend how tightly the stone is or isn't cut.

You can accurately pinpoint 1 color grade between stones, but don't think others can pinpoint differences in cut?

HCA & cert of the 1.32 in question.

 

[sledge]

We purchased a 1.33 ct I/SI1 diamond at 7.09 x 7.04 x 4.36 mm. It is EGL graded so I now know that the because it was graded by EGL the color could actually even be worse than I although truthfully I have never disliked the color of my current stone.

Hey OP, can you post a copy of your cert for us to review? Seeing the proportions would help us compare your current cut quality to that of a new stone (rather super ideal or 3x).

I understand it's EGL. And I know this forum isn't a fan of those certs. Feel no shame. You were uneducated and frankly, the stone got the job done back then!

At least we have a starting point and whatever stone gets proposed & ultimately accepted I want you to be blown away with color & performance.

@LLJsmom These are the two I've got on my wish list (note I'm using the wire price for comparison purposes as I would pay by wire). Both are I color but I assume will present a lot whiter than my current I diamond and get me a little boost in size as well.

Diamond | 1.442 ct I VS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4377167

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.442 carat I color VS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4377167

www.whiteflash.com

Diamond | 1.526 ct I VS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4384641

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.526 carat I color VS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4384641

www.whiteflash.com

Just out of curiosity, have you talked with DK and can he modify your existing setting to work with a larger stone? Only asking because my wife's setting is very unique and going up too much in spread would create a real issue and likely require a new setting.

That may be cool with you, but just making sure so you don't get a shocking surprise.