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Advice for a yellow Sapphire Seeker? (e-ring).

Now that's some out-of-box problem-solving, Vapid!
 
CC: I thought your explanation of why a chrysoberyl, while beautiful, is not in the running is incredibly thoughtful and well put. I agree - if there would be symbolism with a sapphire, then using a stand in wouldn't really cut it. Plus half the world would be saying "a chrysowhat?" :lol:

Did you take a look at the one Brad of The Gem Trader had? you might want to ask him if he has other rough that he might cut...

I can't remember - did you contact Jeff White at all? I say that only because you are looking for a yellow sapphire instead of the usual and he may just have some rough?
 
I know you said that you're not ready to start thinking about heated sapphires, but in terms of giving her something she can talk about and show without feeling any hint of awkwardnes... you might want to go with heated. (But NOT diffused.)

No one she'll meet will ever think to even ask or know the difference between heated or not, and it really is more or less standard.

They WILL notice the quality of the setting and whether or not it has some diamondy bling.

The setting will help them see that the sapphire is a precious, as-good-as-diamond e-ring stone. It's like the presentation of food or something. You can make even MacDonalds look expensive if you put it on a nice plate, and you can make filet mignon look cheap if it's on styrofoam.

Metals are still ridiculously high. If you get a stone for $1500 and leave $500 for the setting, you might not be able to get a setting that properly shows off the stone. Cheap settings-- especially ones with thin shanks (to save metal weight) or crappy pave-- will not last, and ultimately you will lose money.

Unheated is awesome. Beautiful unheated stones are special. But please do realistically price out the kind of setting you're interested in BEFORE making a purchase.

If i were you, I would probably think more like $600 heated stone and $1400 setting. But that's just me! I am also not the kind of person who'd want to replace or upgrade my e-ring, so I think of the stone and setting as more of package. Your mileage may vary. I hope this is helpful, even if you go another route than I've suggested. :)


(On the other hand to argue against myself, this is one of the most amazing e-rings I've ever seen - [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-long-overdue-wf-yellow-sapphire-engagement-ring-pics.148366/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-long-overdue-wf-yellow-sapphire-engagement-ring-pics.148366/[/URL] - and it's a crazy unheated yellow sapphire in a very simple but quality yellow setting. I'm pretty sure she was planning to eventually put it in a blingier setting, which sort bummed me out. But on the OTHER other hand, you're not going to get a stone of *that* quality for under $1500 anyway, and even that simple setting probably ran over $1000, so it's not actually a great counter-argument.)
 
@ minous:

haha "Chysowhat?" is definitely what I would be afraid of! Thanks for the recommendations. I will definitely contact Jeff Davis, and I've put out a lapidary inquiry.

@ velouria:

You make a great case for heated on my budget, and I completely agree that the uninitiated wouldn't ask whether its heated (although the polite wouldn't really ask whether it was lab created or not, for that matter). You are of course correct that a setting will greatly affect perceptions of the stone. I doubt that I would be able to afford an elaborate setting if 3/4 of my budget goes towards the stone. I think my s.o.'s tastes are a bit on the simpler side, so I may not need to spend 1400 on a setting even if I were at liberty to do so, but you are certainly right that 500 for a setting would make things tight. My counterargument at the moment, however, is the following:

1. An unheated stone would have greater value as an heirloom, especially, I should think, given the rarity of sapphires and unheated ones in general.

2. Although I want to spare my s.o. any awkwardness from friends, I also want to be totally confident in explaining the stone to her myself and communicate to her how special her stone is! She doesn't know heated from microwaved when it comes to gems, and I would put a premium on being able to tell her that hers is a rare untreated yellow sapphire, as opposed to explaining to her that its undergone standard heating like most sapphires to achieve its color. I would have to admit to her at some point that there's one, even more coveted unheated kind of yellow sapphire, but that's not what I gave her. I think Cupid's bow might backfire during that one.

3. I have great affection for the completely or most unadulterated. I think it would irk me (even if she didn't care, and I don't think she would all that much) that the stone was heated.

So, for now I am comfortable with sacrificing some quality of setting in order to get the best stone given 1-3, especially since I wasn't planning on something too elaborate to begin with. But I may eventually take your advice, as heating will probably be the first area for compromise when/if I need to change my plan. And I'll do some more setting comparisons :naughty:
 
Good points, good points. And ultimately it's the perceptions in your and your gf's minds and hearts that are far more important than what some stranger on the internet thinks (see note).

But do price out settings before you make a purchase on the stone so there's no unhappy surprises! It's often best done as a parallel process to finding the stone. Since you're on something of a timeline (as thbmok pointed out), you don't want to get stuck with a stone and then waiting unexpectedly for few more months while you figure out a setting you like in your budget. We've seen plenty of stones bought and then held onto indefinitely because they wound up not working with the setting that was eventually decided on. Even simple, quality settings are running high these days. You can still prob get an unheated stone, but it might reduce your gem allocation and, to look on the bright side, narrow your search. :) Plus, if you find a vendor for the setting, s/he might be able to help you source a gem an an overall lower combined price. If either of you is sentimental about the setting at all, don't skimp on metal weight on the shank. Most old ladies rings are worn almost to nothing after decades of daily use.

Another bit of advice would be to sneakily figure out what she wants. I just helped a friend who was about to go into production after months and months of planning on a modern-style engagement ring only to hear his girlfriend make an offhandedly remark about how she'd always wanted an antique style. He was certain she'd want modern because that is her style, but turns out for the e-ring she'd always wanted an antique because her family heirlooms had all been lost due to strife in her family's country of origin. He never could have guessed! Oy! Ultimately, it worked out and he had presented her with a gorgeous antique-style ring, but there was definitely a major head-desk moment



Note: For *me* (not that you asked or should care lol), heating (not other treatments) is a lot like good cutting: it brings out the best in a stone. It's like, "Yum, this asparagus is good, but it's so much better poached!" Opinions vary a little bit, but heating is just NOT the same as lab creation or Be or radiation treatments, etc. I also really don't think it will impact the heirloom value much, but jewelry in general is an unpredictable investment. There's always better out there, say even if you had a $5000 budget or a $50,000 budget. So don't feel bad if you are forced to come around to my way of thinking! ;->

That said, since you love the unadulterated and she likes simple settings, have you thought about a raw (uncut) diamond or sapphire? For example, I love the look of Bario-Neal designs, and I know that a lot of other ladies do too. Just an idea!
 
Vel,
I think the OP thinks of untreated versus heated this way:

Untreated = Mother Nature created this beauty untouched by man other than to fashion the stone by cutting it. If it is very beautiful untreated, it is even more special for that rarity. Mum Earth "cooked" it just right.

Heated = "Cooked" by man because Mum Nature didn't have time to watch the oven. Either that or man couldn't wait long enough for the tasty treat. :tongue:

Good stones are becoming harder to find. More and more need to be heated to look beautiful. Personally, I do think that unheated will become even rarer if the colour is superb. I have nothing against heated stones at all and find many to be gorgeous.
 
I know this is probably too small, the wrong shape and isn't unheated ("So besides that, Ms. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?"):
Click to expand...
Minous you crack me up! :lol:

Conundrum: I would strongly second Velouria's post about having a serious look for a setting you might like, before you buy the gem, in order to get a feel for prices. You may have to adjust the split of funds and it's better to know before you're committed to a purchase of either.
 
@Starzin and Velouria

Thanks for the advice. I've price-checked settings, and I think I can get something nice for 800-1200 from reputable US companies. My cap for my center stone is therefore staying at 1500. I think I can stretch my total budget to 2500 if I had to if my perfect sapphire is 1500, leaving 1000 for a setting (though hopefully more of a bargain for the stone!)

@ All

Thanks for all of the suggestions so far. I'm still intent on an unheated yellow sapphire at the moment. I'll consider other options if no one can find anything for me after, say, Tucson.

So its been about a month since I first posted, and about 6 weeks since I started my search. I've had a few exciting leads thanks to your help, but nothing to show for it yet. I think I've also gotten more particular about the colour I want the more I look. This is okay for now, since I'm willing to be patient. I've still got 6 months until I need a stone. However....

Does anyone know of any cutters/vendors who will be making or regularly make Sri Lanka trips? I have a lapidary looking for me, but if that doesn't pan out I'd love to contact someone in advance of a Sri Lanka trip. It seems to be the land of yellow sapphires, so finding my dream yellow (not just any yellow) might be possible. Does anyone know of any cutters who might be there in the next 6 months? Thanks for any leads.

Also, I've honed-in on my ideal color. Minimal green canary. Probably best to show you ideal examples of the color I'm after than to just describe:

1. http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Yellow/Y2107/Cushion/stoneid=Y2107
A window you could drive a truck through, but awesome colour.

2. http://www.micropave.com/index.php/rings/yellow-sapphire-ring.html
Is this unheated? Probably cooked. Great colour either way.

3.https://www.pricescope.com/communit...-sapphire.137553/page-2#post-2466938#p2466938
Taylorbug's perfect stone.

4.http://www.finewatergems.com/sapphire.html
Perfect.

If anyone sees something in this color in the 1-2 carat range, please let me know! These are not cut examples(I'm still looking for round or square), just wonderful colors!

Shamelessly bumping himself,

Conundrum
 
@gemseeker:

A handsome stone indeed, and one I hadn't come across (and I'd like to think I've scoured the interwebs and seen just about every yellow stone being sold!) Its perhaps a smidgen closer to cognac than I'm looking for, but worth investigating, and preferable to about 90% of the yellows I see given my color preference. The cutting looks very nice as well.

Did you make a final purchase yet, gemseeker, or are you still looking? I obviously see the montana sapphires, which I adore, while I'm looking for my yellows, so I'll throw any links your way if you're still in the market. Also, do you think its fair to call your ideal color a light seafoam? That's kind of what your litnon inspiration stone looks like to me.
 
I'm glad you like it, Corundum! He is a great person to work with, so if that doesn't work out, perhaps he'll have something else for you! It was really the cut that caught my eye.

I am still searching but I do have a couple promising stones coming my way, so I'm hopeful! That said, if you find anything, please do post it! I think seafoam is a pretty good description of what I'm looking for, thanks!
 
As you are no doubt discovering, an already cut unheated asscher yellow sapphire for $1500 is rarer than hen's teeth. Have you tried approaching a cutter and sounding out whether they can source and cut something for you?
 
corundum_conundrum|1348880813|3276263 said:
Does anyone know of any cutters/vendors who will be making or regularly make Sri Lanka trips? I have a lapidary looking for me, but if that doesn't pan out I'd love to contact someone in advance of a Sri Lanka trip. It seems to be the land of yellow sapphires, so finding my dream yellow (not just any yellow) might be possible. Does anyone know of any cutters who might be there in the next 6 months? Thanks for any leads.
Click to expand...

BIll Vance of Vance Gems makes regular buying trips to Sri Lanka. I read a recent entry on a popular social media forum that he was leaving soon for Sri Lanka and hoping to find a few sapphires at old sapphire prices. Sounds like he might be your guy. I purchased a lovely star sapphire from Bill earlier this summer that he hand selected during an earlier trip to Sri Lanka. BIll is a well-respected cutter.
 
@ Starzin: Yes, I contacted a cutter. Hopefully he will be able to track something down. I'm not looking exclusively for an asscher. Square cushion, cut corner, circle or maybe even a squat cut corner rectangle would be okay. I'm going to give my contact a while to see if he can track something down. I feel a little weird about sending out requests to lapidaries like scattershot, but I didn't want to miss it if anyone was taking a sri lanka trip. I'll consider gradually asking a few more lapidaries down the road if need be.

@ Flygirl: I'll contact Bill Vance. His name seems to come up in talk about Intergem shows, and I'm considering going to an upcoming one and it would be great if I could meet him there. Is this still his contact info? http://www.agta.org/info/agta-source-directory-member-1001919.html I think his web site is no longer up.

@gemseeker

Many thanks for the lead, and I'll post any good "light seafoam" sapphires in your topic!
 
Contacting various lapidaries is the right thing to do. Each one has different contacts and so have access to different material and you are more likely to find what you want, rather than depending on a single person.
 
corundum_conundrum said:
@ Flygirl: I'll contact Bill Vance. His name seems to come up in talk about Intergem shows, and I'm considering going to an upcoming one and it would be great if I could meet him there. Is this still his contact info? http://www.agta.org/info/agta-source-directory-member-1001919.html I think his web site is no longer up.
Click to expand...
That's the guy. I also found a phone number and e-mail address under "Vance Gems" on that very popular social media website that recently went public. He lists show specials for various Intergem shows there.

Good luck on your hunt. I agree that casting a wide net is wise.
 
Have you checked out simply sapphires yet? They seem to always have new stones coming in, and it's possible they have stones that are not posted.

http://www.simplysapphires.com/
 
Kind of OT but they have a fun $199 super specials page with some fun stones. Probably not what your looking for but fun to check out anyway!
 
Not a bad stone.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-32ct-Unco...9190?pt=Loose_Gemstones_1&hash=item3cca8e1e06


I think I would order it if it were square for closer inspection. Looks like a bit of a window, and just a touch greener than what I am looking for (it looks more yellow in the video and has a bit more of a green cast in the photo.) But quite the bargain at that size! And if you like lemon yellow, this has a uncommonly deep saturation. For someone open to recutting, I think it would be a great buy. I still have my training wheels on. No buying and planning to recut for me.
 
Hi, I have a couple of yellow sapphires as i'm a fan. my preferences are for paler stones however. I have purchased a few stones from Bill Kent at http://www.sapphires.ca. Not all of them exactly what I has after but still beautiful and the photography on his website could be better. But he is a gent to work with, accepts returns/refunds with no questions. Usually I just told him what I wanted and he would hunt through he inventory for something (only a few of the stones he has makes it on to his website. I would suggest you give him an email call and see if he has anything that would fit your requirements. Best of luck with the hunt- yellow sapphires are notoriously tricky to pick a good one!
 
Hi, I have a couple of yellow sapphires as i'm a fan. my preferences are for paler stones however. I have purchased a few stones from Bill Kent at http://www.sapphires.ca.. Not all of them exactly what I has after but still beautiful and the photography on his website could be better. But he is a gent to work with, accepts returns/refunds with no questions. Usually I just told him what I wanted and he would hunt through he inventory for something (only a few of the stones he has makes it on to his website. I would suggest you give him an email call and see if he has anything that would fit your requirements. Best of luck with the hunt- yellow sapphires are notoriously tricky to pick a good one!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reference. I came across that site very early on in my search, before I found PS in fact, but I had kind of forgotten about it. It looked promising, but I admit the pictures scared me off a bit. I just can't really make sense of them. But it and Bill Kent are now back on my radar. His list price is a premium, but I guess there is an automatic discount of 12% on everything, plus I get a 5% discount as a Yank, so it ends up on the higher side but not the highest I've seen online. I dig the 30 day return policy.

I am indeed finding that its tricky to get the right stone. Yellows tend to be more of a bargain than blues, but they are also in shorter supply, and so you have fewer options to look through. :cry: Cutters tell me that what I'm looking for is out there, but its hardly common. And few seem to have yellow rough on hand or readily accessible. But I am in the midst of chasing down a few leads, so I hope I'll have some pictures to post here by November.


He also runs another site with slightly different inventory it seems:

http://www.jyotishgem.com/

ps I am glad you like yellows! I love them (and find many of the pale one's gorgeous!), but I also think all yellows have the potential to go awry. Maybe its that they don't play well with inclusions, or the yellow is happy to give way to orange or green undertones. Or maybe I've just looked at too many and have become a yellow snob!
 
If you ended up going with a chrysoberyl (not that you are, I'm just trying to be clever) you could simplify and call it yellow alexandrite!
 
Bill Kent's photography certainly could stand to be improved quite a bit. The dark background and over-exposure makes it almost impossible to even make out the facet pattern. :twirl: Cut, in general, seems to be lacking though, in the few that I can discern. Windowing in a few stones but cannot tell about the rest.
 
@ Chrono

Thank you for confirming my suspicion about the cutting on Sappires.ca. I noticed that there were a lot of just-barely rovals and assymetrical squares on his site. I couldn't visually see any facet problems, but the proportions were sending-up red flags. I will probably exaust other options before i will settle for a square-tangle, although settling for a square-tangle wouldn't be out of the question at some point if the stone lacked other cutting eyesores. I hypothesize that because a good chunk of the yellows on the market are from Sri Lanka, and Sri Lanka has an embargo on exporting rough, that a diproportionate amount of yellows that make it to the North American market are cut in Sri Lanka. While it might be cost effective for a precision cutter to buy Sri Lankan blues to recut because people will pay a lot of money for blues, there just isn't enough North American demand to make it cost effective to do so for yellows. I have accepted this reality, and while I would love a precision cut stone, I would be content with a well-cut Sri Lankan stone with good symmetry. I have seen some good examples (by my standards, anyway). Sri Lanka has some fine local cutters. I could always get lucky, though, and find a precision cut in my color from Sri Lanka or Africa!

@ Innerkitten:

Thanks for the link. The yellow montanas responded very well to heating, and achieved a nice hue. I will keep them in mind if I decide to look for heated stones.

@ Freke:

Yellow Alexandrite would be perfect! My original back-up plan was to buy a brown sapphire and tell people it was a "chocolate padparadscha," but yellow alexandrite would be good too. :tongue:
 
corundum_conundrum|1350330236|3285780 said:
@ Chrono

Thank you for confirming my suspicion about the cutting on Sappires.ca. I noticed that there were a lot of just-barely rovals and assymetrical squares on his site. I couldn't visually see any facet problems, but the proportions were sending-up red flags. I will probably exaust other options before i will settle for a square-tangle, although settling for a square-tangle wouldn't be out of the question at some point if the stone lacked other cutting eyesores. I hypothesize that because a good chunk of the yellows on the market are from Sri Lanka, and Sri Lanka has an embargo on exporting rough, that a diproportionate amount of yellows that make it to the North American market are cut in Sri Lanka. While it might be cost effective for a precision cutter to buy Sri Lankan blues to recut because people will pay a lot of money for blues, there just isn't enough North American demand to make it cost effective to do so for yellows. I have accepted this reality, and while I would love a precision cut stone, I would be content with a well-cut Sri Lankan stone with good symmetry. I have seen some good examples (by my standards, anyway). Sri Lanka has some fine local cutters. I could always get lucky, though, and find a precision cut in my color from Sri Lanka or Africa!

@ Innerkitten:

Thanks for the link. The yellow montanas responded very well to heating, and achieved a nice hue. I will keep them in mind if I decide to look for heated stones.

@ Freke:

Yellow Alexandrite would be perfect! My original back-up plan was to buy a brown sapphire and tell people it was a "chocolate padparadscha," but yellow alexandrite would be good too. :tongue:
Click to expand...
I know the right sapphire will eventually come your way.
 
So, I went to my jeweller's today to pick up a ring that he finished sizing, and saw a BEAUTIFUL yellow sapphire. It is not round or square, but not tooooo far off square - and it's unheated. It's 1.69 ct, 7.5 x 6.2 mm. Anyway, I took a couple of pictures, but they turned out really crappy. :nono: This one is over your budget (just over 1900, including tax), and I'm up in Canada, but just wanted to give you a B & M comparable. This stone is really stunning in person - definitely engagement ring worthy! I can go back next week and take more pics if you're interested.

yellow_sapph_hand.jpg

yellow_sapph2.jpg
 
I don't think it looks crappy. I think it's really pretty!
 
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