Advice on making a blue sapphire setting

[MatthewT]

Im making a birthday present for my grandma (on a budget). This is the first time i'm trying something like this.

I picked up a 8x6 mm blue sapphire (only about $150 a carrat) and I am looking to have it put in a semi set mount (so its cheaper). I'm thinking just a basic white stone halo. I'm having trouble finding them (I live in the uk) without having to import. I managed to find someone in the UK on etsy. The design is a white sapphire halo with a bezel setting and a closed back I think. It can come in sterling/argentium/ 9ct yellow gold.

I know she only likes the ceylon colour stones (not the australian or thai).

The stone (ceylon) has an inclusion but in that parcel it was a choice of much more colour zoning or having the inclusion. Not sure if I made the right choice.

The only other option without going up to like $1000+ a carat was a medium saturation parcel but the stones were all mixed and in random sizes so i'd have to get something like a 6x5mm. Its the same color as the stone I picked to repair her ring attached below.

1) Do you think having an inclusion with less colour zoning is better than no visible inclusion and a lot of colour zoning?
2) Do you think going from a 8x6 to a 6x5 for better saturation is in your opinion better?-the first picture is indoors without tons of light.-sorry for the bad photo.
3) Do you think the ring design is acceptable and should I go for silver or 9ct gold assuming its going to be hopefully worn very often.

 

[LilAlex]

Nice idea! And welcome(ish)!

With a really constrained budget, it's hard to know where to compromise on behalf of someone else (like for a gift). If she is truly elderly, I might compromise on clarity, for example, and go for color but maybe that's ageist.

Sounds like she knows enough to know what color she likes. If she knows to prefer "Ceylon-color" over the typically darker Australian or Thai, she could be pretty knowledgeable. That's a good thing -- and also a bad thing if you're on a really tight budget.

What do you know about the jewelry she already wears? Does your proposed design align with her aesthetic? (And is that YG ring a design inspo or what?) Is she never without a ring or seldom wears jewelry at all? I think it is hard to go wrong with a neutral style along the lines of that you propose -- center colored stone and petite colorless halo.

Too late but at this price point and where the value of the center stone is << total cost of the final ring, it is often not cost-effective to go custom. Would you really spend the money on this custom work for only a few dollars worth of silver? Much more cost-effective to go vintage and find something you already like -- especially if you do not care if the sapphire is heated or otherwise treated. That's the approach I'd take if I were on a tight budget and it's what I have done in the past. Custom, imo, is for when you have a clear design vision and/or a gem that is much better than you'd find in commercial-grade (think: mall) jewelry. (There are plenty of pretty-looking gems in mall jewelry but most here would avoid them because of extensive treatment.)

 

[Autumn in New England]

If she is truly elderly, I might compromise on clarity, for example, and go for color but maybe that's ageist.

Everything he said (also, this ^ cracked me up).

But seriously, this is just the sweetest post ever... what a lucky gram to have someone like you in her life. I love this idea!

Question - So the gem in the first photo is the one you selected with the inclusion, correct? The one in the third photo is "medium saturation" you could get if you spend more? Do you have a photo of the one with color zoning? With those answers, I think I can respond a little better.

 

[Autumn in New England]

P.S. 9k gold (4 mohs) and argentium (3) will be more durable than sterling silver (2.5).

 

[MatthewT]

Everything he said (also, this ^ cracked me up).

But seriously, this is just the sweetest post ever... what a lucky gram to have someone like you in her life. I love this idea!

Question - So the gem in the first photo is the one you selected with the inclusion, correct? The one in the third photo is "medium saturation" you could get if you spend more? Do you have a photo of the one with color zoning? With those answers, I think I can respond a little better.

I tried to respond to lilalex but the post got flagged, i guess outside links are a no go.

yea, the first picture is the stone with the inclusion that I picked up (with less zoning). It looks like a little tiny colourless or white dot (its not black or grey), I notice it if I strain my eyes. It came from a packet of stones like the one attached below (from their site). Some of them had more colour zoning while this one had less but a inclusion. I guess at a low price/carat its about compromising.

The better saturated ceylon stones price/carat in standardised 7x5 8x6 etc seemed to instantly jump to about $1500/carat. He had some at like $500/carat but they were in really random sizes like 5x4 6x3 some were very deeply cut etc. I guess he buys parcels in bulk, sorts out the standardised sizes for trade/wholesale and then leaves the rest at a lower price. I'm afraid doing the setting in a weird size might be super expensive.

I did want to ask a question though. When I put the stone on a white background and look directly at the central facet it looks quite transparent-the colour looks like a donut but if i look at it slightly to the side it seems fine. I guess it is because the colour saturation is low? Someone suggested if I put it into a closed off (cup?) bezel setting, the transparent effect should be reduced. I just wondered if you knew if this might be the case and if the choice of metal setting could reduce/make it worse?

 

[Bron357]

Hi, what a lovely gesture and gift for Grandma.
As far as settings go, a bezel setting like your photo requires a precision cut / fit gemstone and as I’m guessing you’ll need to find a jeweller to set the sapphire in your settings, it costs more for bezel setting.
So I’d go with prongs as these are more easily adjusted to hold the gemstone.
The “see throughness” is called a window and it’s common in coloured gemstones and more noticeable in lighter toned gemstones. And a “cup setting” helps with that, but again an extra expense in a setting.
Is there a reason you don’t want to import? Obviously customs fees are no fun but you will have a much wider choice if you include settings from say Thailand or China. Many of us have been very happy with such purchases.
Use the search “semi mount ring” in Etsy or eBay.
Another US seller with beautiful settings is Ivy&Rose Vintage, on Etsy, eBay and a stand alone website.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Yeah, so being able to "see through" the center of the gem is called windowing... it's a cutting defect. Typically it comes from a gem being too shallow, but more generally speaking, it's because the pavilion facets aren't at the right angle to reflect light up through the table facet. The result is an overall loss of brilliance (and sometimes saturation, especially if the tone is already light). So you'll hear a lot of us kvetch about windows, because color and sparkle, after all, are the main reasons we buy faceted transparent gems.

That aside, it's difficult for me to advise one way or the other. It would depend on how severe the color zoning is... or how obvious the inclusion is. Naturally, I prefer the saturation of the gem in the third photo to the one in the first, but as you said, that comes with a much higher price tag. And going from an 8x6mm to a 6x5mm is a big jump in size.

I love the design you have in mind. As I mentioned previously, 9k gold would be the most durable, then argentium silver, then sterling silver.

As far as cupping a gem, yes, that can help with perceived windowing and color saturation, but I might just browse for a better cut stone.

 

[MatthewT]

Yeah, so being able to "see through" the center of the gem is called windowing... it's a cutting defect. Typically it comes from a gem being too shallow, but more generally speaking, it's because the pavilion facets aren't at the right angle to reflect light up through the table facet. The result is an overall loss of brilliance (and sometimes saturation, especially if the tone is already light). So you'll hear a lot of us kvetch about windows, because color and sparkle, after all, are the main reasons we buy faceted transparent gems.

That aside, it's difficult for me to advise one way or the other. It would depend on how severe the color zoning is... or how obvious the inclusion is. Naturally, I prefer the saturation of the gem in the third photo to the one in the first, but as you said, that comes with a much higher price tag. And going from an 8x6mm to a 6x5mm is a big jump in size.

I love the design you have in mind. As I mentioned previously, 9k gold would be the most durable, then argentium silver, then sterling silver.

As far as cupping a gem, yes, that can help with perceived windowing and color saturation, but I might just browse for a better cut stone.

Autumn I wondered if I could ask some advice on settings for a 8x6 mm sapphire. I ordered one online thinking it was a good deal. When it arrived it looked paper thin and the goldsmith doubted it would last more than a year or two. Luckily I can return it. What dimensions(band thickness or width w/e) /weight should I be looking at for a durable ring that could be potentially worn regularly? She is a US ring size 6 and petite (about 95 lbs). Someone also told me that a bezel setting generally holds the centre stone more securely than prongs but it lets less light in- since the stone is a lighter shade would a bezel be ok?

 

[Autumn in New England]

Autumn I wondered if I could ask some advice on settings for a 8x6 mm sapphire. I ordered one online thinking it was a good deal. When it arrived it looked paper thin and the goldsmith doubted it would last more than a year or two. Luckily I can return it. What dimensions(band thickness or width w/e) /weight should I be looking at for a durable ring that could be potentially worn regularly? She is a US ring size 6 and petite (about 95 lbs). Someone also told me that a bezel setting generally holds the centre stone more securely than prongs but it lets less light in- since the stone is a lighter shade would a bezel be ok?

Just when I thought this couldn't get any cuter, I learn grandma is only 95lbs.

I would say for an 8x6 stone mounting, shoot for 2mm for the back of band thickness and width. As long as your jeweler is experienced in closing bezels, and he/she should be, that's perfectly fine.

 

[MatthewT]

Just when I thought this couldn't get any cuter, I learn grandma is only 95lbs.

I would say for an 8x6 stone mounting, shoot for 2mm for the back of band thickness and width. As long as your jeweler is experienced in closing bezels, and he/she should be, that's perfectly fine.

so in the etsy description it states 'Shank - Cathedral Shank, tapering from 2.35mm at the base to 1mm at top thickness' which i guess is the band width? I cant see a band thickness disclosed on etsy but from the drawing he sent (attached below) it looks like only 1 mm? So its a no go?

 

[MatthewT]

so in the etsy description it states 'Shank - Cathedral Shank, tapering from 2.35mm at the base to 1mm at top thickness' which i guess is the band width? I cant see a band thickness disclosed on etsy but from the drawing he sent (attached in my original post) it looks like only 1 mm? So its a no go? (its meant to be 4.5-5 g metal weight)

 

[Autumn in New England]

so in the etsy description it states 'Shank - Cathedral Shank, tapering from 2.35mm at the base to 1mm at top thickness' which i guess is the band width? I cant see a band thickness disclosed on etsy but from the drawing he sent (attached in my original post) it looks like only 1 mm? So its a no go? (its meant to be 4.5-5 g metal weight)

The 2.35mm in the back is great for width. The 1mm tapered portion is fine, as long as the gold is thick enough. Width and thickness are two different things.

Here's a CAD I'm working on... this would be band thickness (2.20mm):



This would be width (3mm tapering to 1.5mm at the top).

 

[MatthewT]

the thickness on this design is 1mm or 1.x mm? Would this design not be durable enough for daily (hopefully) wear?

 

[Autumn in New England]

the thickness on this design is 1mm or 1.x mm? Would this design not be durable enough for daily (hopefully) wear?

A 1mm band thickness (not width) would be cutting it close to being too thin for daily wear, IMO, but unless gram is the drummer of a metal group, I'd say it should be ok. Are you going with the 9k gold? That would be the most durable of the 3 choices you listed. Be sure you have a return policy, and see how the shank feels in-hand.

 

[MatthewT]

I wondered if anyone with some cad exp could help out. The attached design image from a model, this vertical distance of 4.42 mm from the top of the centre stone to the botom of the basket (?) does the 4.42 represent the maximum depth of the centre stone? My sapphire is 4 or 4.1 mm (8x6). Would it fit in this design? This gem reporter thing looks set to a diamond with 1.09 tw (i guess thats carat weight)- whereas mine is a sapphire of 1.51 carats.

 

[Avondale]

I don't have experience with CAD per se, but I think your questions aren't that specific, so I'll try to help.

does the 4.42 represent the maximum depth of the centre stone?

No, it represents how high the entire ring will sit on the finger. The stone in this design is set low, which will make it more comfortable to wear as it won't stick out too much.

This gem reporter thing looks set to a diamond with 1.09 tw (i guess thats carat weight)- whereas mine is a sapphire of 1.51 carats.

I believe you can safely ignore the suggested carat weight. To start, weight differs between gem varieties because different crystals have different densities. Sapphires are more dense than diamonds and two identically cut stones will actually have different weights. Second, the thing you need to care about is that the CAD stone dimensions in millimetres match the dimensions of your sapphires. That's what's important in order for the stone to fit nicely in the setting, the weight doesn't matter.

 

[MatthewT]

The gem dealer measured the length and width of the sapphire infront of me and it was 8x6 -identical to the cad. I was only worried about the sapphire depth-which should be 4mm.

The design was not specifically made for my stone (its just a cad design you can buy online) but both are 6x8. I just wondered if someone knew if based on that design a 8x6x 4 mm stone would probably fit.

 

[LilAlex]

I just wondered if someone knew if based on that design a 8x6x 4 mm stone would probably fit.

Not all ovals of the same LxW are identical -- just look at the pale blue sapphires in your post just above. Some are more rectangular-cushion-shaped and some taper more dramatically toward the poles. For a prong-set, would not matter and could probably accommodate any. For a cup like your CAD, it might.

 

[Autumn in New England]

The gem dealer measured the length and width of the sapphire infront of me and it was 8x6 -identical to the cad. I was only worried about the sapphire depth-which should be 4mm.

The design was not specifically made for my stone (its just a cad design you can buy online) but both are 6x8. I just wondered if someone knew if based on that design a 8x6x 4 mm stone would probably fit.

If your stone's size is in fact calibrated (8x6x4mm) and that mounting is for a standard 8x6mm stone, then, yes, it should fit. Typically with these premade mountings, they leave the prongs long to accommodate a slightly deeper stone. If the stone is more shallow than expected, it will simply fit lower and the jeweler will snip the prongs.

 

[MatthewT]

If your stone's size is in fact calibrated (8x6x4mm) and that mounting is for a standard 8x6mm stone, then, yes, it should fit. Typically with these premade mountings, they leave the prongs long to accommodate a slightly deeper stone. If the stone is more shallow than expected, it will simply fit lower and the jeweler will snip the prongs.

ok, so I bought the design. I messaged the designer and he sent this image and said it should be fine up to 4.3 mm depth.

So now I need to decide on the halo stones and the metal.
1) The halo stones are 1.8mm rounds- is it just default diamonds for a halo or do people go for other coloured stones in a halo around a lighter blue sapphire?
2) metal: She would wear the ring next to her wedding band (originally split into individual yellow/rose/white but i think with no upkeep it mostly just looks yellow now).

She tends to never take off her rings-shower/swim/housekeeping with them. She is unlikely to go have it maintained- cleaned/plated etc.

So given that is silver a bad choice? Would a platinum ring look weird next to a mostly yellow wedding band- would the platinum slowly destroy her wedding band since I think it is more hard? If its yellow gold- what purity should I go for- I heard lower purity makes it more durable but then will it tarnish like silver?

 

[Bron357]

If you want white metal choose Platinium or white gold rhodium plated.
Silver is a more “brittle” metal and is difficult to resize (over time your finger size can go up and down especially during/after kids).
For a ring to be worn daily and for a long time, choose Platinium or gold.
Lower carat gold doesn’t tarnish as such, unlike silver which reacts over time to oxygen, quicker if certain oils or other liquids are present.
The higher the carat the more malleable the gold. Most choose 14kt, some 18kt. Some choose yellow gold band / shank but choose platinum for the prongs.
Many people mix metals when wearing jewelry, others insist on “matchy matchy” so you’re the best judge of whether your fiancé is the former or latter.
Tradionally diamonds are used in a halo surrounding a coloured centre gemstone. That could be either natural or lab.
Certainly people do choose a coloured halo though with natural gemstones you’d need your jeweller to carefully match the colour/ hue.

 

[Autumn in New England]

I definitely wouldn't do sterling silver... too soft for daily wear of a ring like this, plus it tarnishes. Argentium silver, which you mentioned previously, is more durable, but not how we would typically set precious gems. It is tarnish-resistant though. 9/10k gold is more durable than 14/18k, etc., but can tarnish a bit over time. However, if it's worn every day, that is unlikely to happen. Wearing jewelry is the best defense against tarnishing, believe it or not. It's counterintuitive, but I suppose constant contact with the skin prevents oxidation.

Personally, I would avoid white gold if your gram does not want any upkeep. If it's not replated with rhodium every so often, the pale yellow of the gold will begin to show through. And then what would be the point of having white gold in the first place? Some folks do, however, enjoy the look of unplated white gold. I like either pure yellow or bright white myself.

About the halo... you can use any gem type you'd like, not only diamond. However, they may be more difficult to source, and not as durable as diamonds for daily wear.

As far as platinum scratching gold or vice versa, that can happen with any metal when two rings are worn stacked or next to one another. It's sort of unavoidable, but I wouldn't be too concerned.

Does this help at all?

 

[MatthewT]

Thanks again Autumn, always a well of knowledge!

I think im gonna just go with diamonds in the halo- question is with 1.8 mm rounds to keep the budget down- would you go with top colour/quality lab diamonds or lower quality natural?

I guess ill go with 9 or 14 carat yellow gold. Her last ring was 18 carat yellow gold but the jeweller said he could see that the ring failed after 30 years because the (gallery?) kept on rubbing against her wedding band and eventually broke down and apparently after decades of constant use gold can get brittle.

 

[Avondale]

would you go with top colour/quality lab diamonds or lower quality natural?

At that size it won't really matter much. The smaller the size, the larger share of the total cost goes towards cutting. You also won't see a noticeable difference between D and G melee, or between one that's VS1 vs SI1. So if you want natural, go natural. If they're cut well, they'll look great.

For 1,8mm melee, I'd imagine the cost of lab compared to natural would be quite similar. I did a quick and dirty search on Etsy and for G coloured melee of the same clarity the price difference is 10$ per stone. Lower the clarity to SI on the natural, and the price becomes identical.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Thanks again Autumn, always a well of knowledge!

I think im gonna just go with diamonds in the halo- question is with 1.8 mm rounds to keep the budget down- would you go with top colour/quality lab diamonds or lower quality natural?

I guess ill go with 9 or 14 carat yellow gold. Her last ring was 18 carat yellow gold but the jeweller said he could see that the ring failed after 30 years because the (gallery?) kept on rubbing against her wedding band and eventually broke down and apparently after decades of constant use gold can get brittle.

It depends on what you mean by lower quality... my standard for diamond accent stones (and I think that of most collectors here) is somewhere around F-G color and VS clarity. What I would consider mid-quality, but still 100% acceptable for a project like this, is maybe H-J color and SI clarity. Anything lower than that, especially in clarity, and I would probably just advise you to go with lab diamonds, especially if it's not particularly important to your gram. You'll get lots of sparkle that way. I don't think you'll get much life out of I clarity melee.

I agree that 9-14kyg sounds like your best bet.

 

[MatthewT]

It depends on what you mean by lower quality... my standard for diamond accent stones (and I think that of most collectors here) is somewhere around F-G color and VS clarity. What I would consider mid-quality, but still 100% acceptable for a project like this, is maybe H-J color and SI clarity. Anything lower than that, especially in clarity, and I would probably just advise you to go with lab diamonds, especially if it's not particularly important to your gram. You'll get lots of sparkle that way. I don't think you'll get much life out of I clarity melee.

I agree that 9-14kyg sounds like your best bet.

So the choice is

#1 DEF VVS-VS lab from a 'local' etsy ~$60 (for 20)
#2 H Si natural from a local gemdealer ~$110 (for the 14 I need)

If its DEF VVS-VS with these tiny 1.8mm stones- given there is colour and clarity variation will it been noticeable with the naked eye in the halo?

Iv also never bought from etsy before- the listing comes up if you search for 'kinddiamond 1.8mm'-(looks like if I post links here the post gets flagged). The vendor only has two reviews though.

 

[Autumn in New England]

So the choice is

#1 DEF VVS-VS lab from a 'local' etsy ~$60 (for 20)
#2 H Si natural from a local gemdealer ~$110 (for the 14 I need)

If its DEF VVS-VS with these tiny 1.8mm stones- given there is colour and clarity variation will it been noticeable with the naked eye in the halo?

Iv also never bought from etsy before- the listing comes up if you search for 'kinddiamond 1.8mm'-(looks like if I post links here the post gets flagged). The vendor only has two reviews though.

Personally, I would go with the H, SI as I always prefer natural, and you have a natural center stone and solid gold. You just have to be sure the seller is reliable, and has batch-tested the gems with an accredited lab. Because unscrupulous sellers will often list their diamonds at a grade above what they actually are. And I clarity is a very different animal from SI clarity. Now, would there be a noticeable difference in the apparent quality of F, VS labs and H, SI naturals? Even in the 1.8mm size, yes. So you'll have to decide which is more important to you and your gram.