Alexandrite Selection & Windows

[the_mother_thing]

Thank you, again, LD, for the very helpful information & pictures. This leaves me with a couple setting questions (for anyone who may have answers ... I really don't mean to inundate LD and appreciate everyone's guidance in this process):

1) Is the reason the closed basket helps due to the metal reflecting the light back into the stone and hopefully reflecting that color back up through the top vs the see-thru effect?

2) Does a stone generally sit right against the metal in the basket, or a mm or 2 above when set? Not sure what the standard is in jewelry setting here, but does either option impact the window at all positively or negatively? Maybe one isn't even an option or practice in setting stones.

3) With the last basket you posted, what degree or percentage (if any) darker might that make the stone appear, or impact on the overall color of the stone due to minimizing the light entry? Would it help offset any darkening to keep it half above the setting and the bottom half of the stone sunk into the basket/setting? In my head, this might mean the allowance of more light to enter while still providing the reflective abilities of the basket to help minimize the window. But I could be way off here, and basing my thoughts on assumptions from my previous questions above.

One observance I failed to mention earlier is that - while at the jeweler, we were able to sort of temp-set the stone in a setting (just set it in an empty setting) on my finger to get a sense size-wise for how it might look once set, and that DEFINITELY made a difference ... It didn't look "smaller than expected" as was the case looking at the stone alone as before, so I am definitely okay there now also. They also had one of those ring/tweezer things I have seen that will allow you to see it as a solitaire, and I am so glad we are opting for a more "ornate" setting, as a simple solitaire (thin band Tiffany style) seems like it would really do it a disservice. It made the Alex look "lonely" if that makes sense. This gem really commands an "audience" of love around it ... Be it metal work, other stones, etc.

 

[LD]

Thank you, again, LD, for the very helpful information & pictures. This leaves me with a couple setting questions (for anyone who may have answers ... I really don't mean to inundate LD and appreciate everyone's guidance in this process):

1) Is the reason the closed basket helps due to the metal reflecting the light back into the stone and hopefully reflecting that color back up through the top vs the see-thru effect? Yes - but you will still see the basket underneath but it (hopefully) won't be as noticeable.

2) Does a stone generally sit right against the metal in the basket, or a mm or 2 above when set? Not sure what the standard is in jewelry setting here, but does either option impact the window at all positively or negatively? Maybe one isn't even an option or practice in setting stones. The gemstone needs something to stop it from falling through the setting so it's either a ring that acts as a chair (so the gem sits against it) or it's the sides of the ring like in the oval one I posted in photo 1 above). A tension setting (not pictured) is where there is nothing underneath the stone but it's held in place by a piece of metal either side and balanced. This wouldn't work for a windowed gemstone.

3) With the last basket you posted, what degree or percentage (if any) darker might that make the stone appear, or impact on the overall color of the stone due to minimizing the light entry? Would it help offset any darkening to keep it half above the setting and the bottom half of the stone sunk into the basket/setting? In my head, this might mean the allowance of more light to enter while still providing the reflective abilities of the basket to help minimize the window. But I could be way off here, and basing my thoughts on assumptions from my previous questions above. Impossible to say how much darker the stone will look with accuracy. As a rough guestimation it should look slightly darker than it does now between your fingers. If you bezel it (not recommended for this stone as you'd lose the unwindowed bit even more and put the focus squarely on the central part where the window is) it may darken even further. You can certainly have a design where it's an enclosed basket on the bottom half but you've got to then think about how you attach that to a shank and where will the prongs be placed. Anything is possible but you will need somebody to think this through and develop something for you. It may look a bit odd though (like a suit of armour on the bottom and naked on the top)! One idea would be to replicate the curving of the shank under the stone. What I would suggest is that you live with your stone (between your fingers) for a while. If you love the stone you MAY find that you start not to focus on the window so much.

One observance I failed to mention earlier is that - while at the jeweler, we were able to sort of temp-set the stone in a setting (just set it in an empty setting) on my finger to get a sense size-wise for how it might look once set, and that DEFINITELY made a difference ... It didn't look "smaller than expected" as was the case looking at the stone alone as before, so I am definitely okay there now also. They also had one of those ring/tweezer things I have seen that will allow you to see it as a solitaire, and I am so glad we are opting for a more "ornate" setting, as a simple solitaire (thin band Tiffany style) seems like it would really do it a disservice. It made the Alex look "lonely" if that makes sense. This gem really commands an "audience" of love around it ... Be it metal work, other stones, etc.

I'm sure you're sick of me and hopefully others will come along and give you their thoughts but my answers are above in red.

 

[the_mother_thing]

I'm glad (and not surprised) that the stone has been valued at more than you've paid for it BUT I would hope that the jeweller has based his valuation on the basis of "if you lost it, how much would it be to find an equivalent ring" rather than this is what it's worth now - if that makes sense? The value of the stone now is what you paid for it. The valuation from your jeweller is high considering it will be higher once in a setting also but if you're happy paying the insurance premiums for the higher amount then that's fine. Having said that, Alex is increasing in value so if you lost the ring in 4 years, you would want to be able to buy a similar stone so it's not a bad idea having a higher valuation now.

Yes, makes semse. The appraisal was for stone only, and did account for the difficulty in replacing this type of stone if lost/stolen. The jeweler said - once mounted - the full appraisal amount would increase due to the setting, so we will likely have a higher valuation once the setting is complete and stone is mounted. As for the premiums to insure it, I don't mind ... I would rather it be covered and never need it, than need it and be not covered or undervalued to replace it, heaven forbid that situation arise. And as you said, Alex prices are rising, so having a higher valuation now is appealing in that respect. I don't want to have to get it reappraised every year to keep up with rising Alex prices though I imagine having it reappraised every few years (if prices rise substantially) might not be a bad idea.

 

[the_mother_thing]

I'm sure you're sick of me and hopefully others will come along and give you their thoughts but my answers are above in red.

NEVER! LOL ... You have been so very helpful and I greatly appreciate your input. I hope I didn't come across otherwise ... I just don't mean to monopolize your expertise. I know so many others have benefited from your knowledge, and I am so thankful to have found this forum and all it's wonderful members.

 

[chrono]

1) Is the reason the closed basket helps due to the metal reflecting the light back into the stone and hopefully reflecting that color back up through the top vs the see-thru effect?
Correct; so instead of seeing your skin (which isn't as attractive when viewed through a stone), you will see the metal reflected but this is less obvious and nicer looking, especially if it is a colour that "helps" the stone.

2) Does a stone generally sit right against the metal in the basket, or a mm or 2 above when set? Not sure what the standard is in jewelry setting here, but does either option impact the window at all positively or negatively? Maybe one isn't even an option or practice in setting stones.
It depends on the stone and setting type. Some stones sit very low and some sit higher. I doubt this will have much impact for a windowed stone. My preference is a lower set stone to lessen the chances of a top heavy ring spin, getting caught in clothing and knocked about.

3) With the last basket you posted, what degree or percentage (if any) darker might that make the stone appear, or impact on the overall color of the stone due to minimizing the light entry? Would it help offset any darkening to keep it half above the setting and the bottom half of the stone sunk into the basket/setting? In my head, this might mean the allowance of more light to enter while still providing the reflective abilities of the basket to help minimize the window. But I could be way off here, and basing my thoughts on assumptions from my previous questions above.
Likely just one notch darker in tone. I have difficulty envisioning the second part of your design question but would think that looks rather odd in person. This might be doable if you design it in such a fashion as to replicate a pseudo tension setting. It would still not sit too much of the stone into the basket though, just the very tip of the culet.

 

[Euphony]

The setting Chrono posted with the culet imbedded (called a two-prong bearing where I went to school, though we learned it set above the shank) is a setting I would be nervous about unless you are confident you will be easy on your ring. Both that and a true tension setting are the kind of rings that--if a person is not gentle with them--can risk damage or loss of the stone. A hard knock to the top could easily torque the setting and damage the culet. With your pear the culet will not be quite as delicate, but I get nervous about settings like that.

Appraisals are funny things. An appraiser has to go high because there is quite a range as far as retail mark-ups go. If you bought that stone through a big name, high-end retailer, it may very well have been that price. They need to account for that. Appraisers are mindful of under-valuing things because they don't know what any given retailer is selling at.

 

[LD]

The setting that Chrono has posted is a good demonstration of a pseudo tension setting but wouldn't help with a window (due to lack of metal on the bottom).

 

[the_mother_thing]

I would be scared to have a pointed culet sitting right on the shank like that pic Chrono posted, for the exact examply Euphony noted - if something were to hit it hard on the top, it would/could damage or crush it. I normally remove my rings when doing anything remotely hazardous (e.g., moving things, gardening, etc.), but accidents happen, even in the office. So that is definitely not an option for me that I would be comfortable with, even though I think mine is a little more rounded. Something like a rounded almost-full basket (I guess?) where the stone sits a little above the bottom of the basket would make the most sense, it seems. If I'm understanding it right, that way if it *were* to get a bump from the top enough to push it, there is room for it to move before crushing against the bottom and my finger. I realize this is an unlikely scenario probably, and maybe I am over-thinking it.

As for the tension setting, I think I (personally) ruled that one out from the get go. I'm just not too comfortable with the security of the stone in that setting for some reason. Looks like, if it were to get snagged or caught from the point on something, it could pop/flip out of the setting.

 

[chrono]

Your finger will be horribly injured before the stone ever gets crushed from a top down force. Almost all force or damage will be from the side, rather than from the top. It has to be a very strong force to "bump" the stone enough that the prongs are no longer able to hold the stone up!

 

[the_mother_thing]

Your finger will be horribly injured before the stone ever gets crushed from a top down force. Almost all force or damage will be from the side, rather than from the top. It has to be a very strong force to "bump" the stone enough that the prongs are no longer able to hold the stone up!

Good point, Chrono. I think I am probably overthinking the potential for damage/crushing. I will though ask the jeweler to ensure a more closed basket setting is used, and see what he has/does in that regard when we meet next to review the design.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Here is a ring I came across in the Colored Stone E-Rings/Eye candy pinned thread.

LD: Is this a basket style that might be a good candidate for my ring/window issue, ya think? I suspect (with my design) the basket would be slightly hidden by the knotting of the shank/band on the sides, so I'm more referencing how it appears mostly solid with a few areas/holes for light?

 

[chrono]

The design as you've shown will help minimize the window.

 

[LD]

You're definitely overthinking! I've yet to see anybody rushed into hospital with a crushed finger from a gemstone!

This is a tension setting - you can see it's held just by the sides. With your stone a tension setting won't work because of the window. Having a basket under it really defeats the object and turns it into a "normal" setting.

 

[the_mother_thing]

The design as you've shown will help minimize the window.

Thanks. See how the stone somewhat sits up/out of the setting? That's sort of what I was envisioning with mine ... that some of it would be up and some/most would be sunken into the basket/setting.

I really apologize that I'm probably not using the right terms to describe things here. I'm sure - for more experienced jewelry/gemstone gurus - it's gotta be frustrating to decipher what I'm trying to convey.

 

[the_mother_thing]

You're definitely overthinking! I've yet to see anybody rushed into hospital with a crushed finger from a gemstone!

LOL Well, at least I know - I'm insured on both fronts.

 

[LD]

No hang on I don't agree! You can only see the sides of the basket - you can't see the bottom. The bottom of the basket is going to be the critical bit for you.

This is the one I showed you before that has a partially closed bottom and here's another photo of the sides. Because of how you've said you've reacted to the window, I think you need more than this.

Edit: Stones will normally sit proud of a setting because they're held in place by prongs - the height can vary on the setting and can be only a tiny bit higher or quite a lot higher. Flush settings - where the stone sits level with the setting is usually a bezel type setting.

 

[the_mother_thing]

No hang on I don't agree! You can only see the sides of the basket - you can't see the bottom. The bottom of the basket is going to be the critical bit for you.

This is the one I showed you before that has a partially closed bottom and here's another photo of the sides. Because of how you've said you've reacted to the window, I think you need more than this.

Edit: Stones will normally sit proud of a setting because they're held in place by prongs - the height can vary on the setting and can be only a tiny bit higher or quite a lot higher. Flush settings - where the stone sits level with the setting is usually a bezel type setting.

So if the sides of the basket are semi-open like what you show here, but the bottom is fairly solid, do you think that would be okay? I do want to let light in to the stone as much as possible to maximize the color, but at the same time balance that with minimizing (where I can) the window.

 

[LD]

It depends on the depth of your stone and the design you go for. I don't know how much you need to think about maximising light to be honest as I'm not convinced it will make a huge difference - but you have it in your hand so will know better. If this were my stone, based on the photos only, I think I'd be concentrating on minimising the window as a priority.

 

[chrono]

Since you have the stone in hand, is it possible for you to try it out with various halo or enclosed type settings in person to see if the effect of making the window less obvious vs affecting over-darkening of the stone is of an acceptable level to you?

 

[the_mother_thing]

I don't have any of those settings laying around, so to speak. I will ask the jeweler though if he has a couple baskets on hand we can try out when I go in next. I set it on two settings/semi-mounts when I was in the other day, but the prongs of those unfortunately kept mine from sitting down in it enough to see if it would make an impact or not (guessing they were for a smaller stone size, and I know one of them wasn't a pear stone setting. It was just to get an idea of how it might look in a setting.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Soo, was just in meeting with the jeweler, who I am sure is about sick of me, lol. And I saw a ring he has when we were wrapping up that I said "BAM"! Please look at this in my Flickr album and tell me your thoughts.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/94823451@N05/sets/72157633213079217

 

[the_mother_thing]

I couldn't go back and ETA, but the idea is that the Alex would sit east-west inside the knot. When I saw that ring, with my Alex, it just all came together for me.

 

[Euphony]

You are looking at a design that is very unique and has a very cool aesthetic to it. If you love it, I would go for it. I am sure that design can be worked to have a gallery that will minimize the window.

I will say that if you are picking out designs for an e-ring, just make sure you feel like you will love it forever. That is the key. In this case it is bold rather than traditional, and is very different in feel then the design you posted earlier. I do not feel you need to go classic with an e-ring by any means, but if you are switching gears from traditional to non-traditional that is what I would consider. This will be a staple piece for you, not an occasional one. An asymmetrical east/west setting is a neat choice that will stand out, and I think jewellery is all about expressing yourself, so all that matters is that you love it and will continue to love it.

 

[the_mother_thing]

You are looking at a design that is very unique and has a very cool aesthetic to it. If you love it, I would go for it. I am sure that design can be worked to have a gallery that will minimize the window.

I will say that if you are picking out designs for an e-ring, just make sure you feel like you will love it forever. That is the key. In this case it is bold rather than traditional, and is very different in feel then the design you posted earlier. I do not feel you need to go classic with an e-ring by any means, but if you are switching gears from traditional to non-traditional that is what I would consider. This will be a staple piece for you, not an occasional one. An asymmetrical east/west setting is a neat choice that will stand out, and I think jewellery is all about expressing yourself, so all that matters is that you love it and will continue to love it.

Thanks much for the feedback and considerations, Euphony. I really do love it. I feel like I am already going a little 'untraditional' (by average society's standard) by having an e-ring that will have the main stone a non-diamond. And the "knot" concept was something we both liked a lot; this is just a different style knot. Originally, I was not a fan of "halo" style rings, and didn't think I'd like one, and when the jeweler first suggested an E-W setting, I couldn't envision what would look right. But when I saw this ring in his case today (I saw it myself vs. him pointing it out), I immediately felt like it was perfect. When we set my Alex on top of it, I was able to get a good sense for the window closure, and how the diamonds would cradle the Alex so beautifully. So two things I initially ruled out that I probably wouldn't go for, I ended up falling in love with ... like they just complete the Alex in a beautiful picture of brilliance.

I broke out my PowerPoint again, and (to be able to see the real alex color in the setting) came up with this, which - next to an actual photo showing the teal/green color, this is the best representation I can come up with. The setting is from Gilbert & Co. The jeweler said he can likely customize the ring to sit my alex down into the loop with diamonds, and I think it will be beautiful. He's going to examine it over the weekend, and will be calling me Monday with his recommendations/estimates, etc. But he seemed confident it will work. Alternatively, I think this will end up becoming a complete custom setting creation.

 

[the_mother_thing]

And equally importantly, I feel like I should state that I am saying "yes" to the Alex and will be keeping it, and I'm so thrilled. I really do love it, and I think I just needed to be able to envision it perfectly, and I feel like this setting will complete that vision. I shared the setting with my b/f, and while he's not used to seeing an E-W set stone (he's a little more traditional), he said if I love it, that's what matters, and I love him.

I can't wait to see the finished product, and I will most certainly post pictures once it's finished. I just want to thank everyone for the phenomenal assistance, guidance, suggestions, and feedback, and am so grateful for a wonderful, helpful forum such as this to provide a place to learn.

 

[Euphony]

Awesome! I am very glad you love your stone and found a design to love as well. It will look very beautiful and individual. I am a big fan of e-rings that express the person's personality. It is one of the reasons I love coloured gem stones, because they have so much character.

The east/west setting is definitely something unusual for a pear, so it is not surprising it throws your significant other off a bit, but if you love it and he loves you and you are both on board then you will have something very unique to show off and express that with.

 

[LD]

If you love the setting then go for it. Just make sure though that you think this is a ring design that you will want as an e-ring and will last forever. The reason I'm saying this is because it has far more a look of a right hand ring AND may be awkward to sit with a wedding band. If at some point you want a different setting (perhaps north/south) then you'll have to change your wedding band as well. I'm a traditionalist and my wedding band is sacrosanct so changing that would be a complete "no no" for me.

Just wanted to mention it so that you can think through all options!

 

[the_mother_thing]

If you love the setting then go for it. Just make sure though that you think this is a ring design that you will want as an e-ring and will last forever. The reason I'm saying this is because it has far more a look of a right hand ring AND may be awkward to sit with a wedding band. If at some point you want a different setting (perhaps north/south) then you'll have to change your wedding band as well. I'm a traditionalist and my wedding band is sacrosanct so changing that would be a complete "no no" for me.

Just wanted to mention it so that you can think through all options!

Thanks LD for the additional considerations. I am somewhat traditional as well, and tend to be more conservative with my jewelry tastes. I believe an e-ring should first & foremost be meaningful and bear sentiment, and to me (personally), this ring (once complete) achieves that for a lot of personal reasons (which I won't bore anyone with). My only concers about "durability" are the fact it has pave diamonds, and possibly losing one here/there. I am researching the company and that style setting (pave) to see how G&Co stands up in that department and if it makes sense, we may just have something similar custom made that mimic the style with more durability. I do love the idea that my precious Alex will be nestled into the center of the two rows of gold & diamonds in an almost protective, loving way. My "traditional" sense though is that I also never want to change/"upgrade"/etc my e-ring. I know it's everyone's personal choice and respect their choices for them, but for me, I would never want to part with or alter the ring that was presented to me when being proposed to. In a way, it's almost like saying "well, you were good enough then, but no longer cut it for me and need to step aside".

I do know that finding a wedding band for this won't be an easy feat, and have thought about that already. I don't have a solution yet in my mind (and if you have ideas, please toss them out!) I know some e-rings are "substantial" enough to fill both places and stand alone, and this might do that, but I would like a band that - should I decide for some reason - can be worn by itself if I opt to not wear my e-ring. Maybe a simple gold band or something small/not too thick with a row of alternating diamonds & small Alex stones that would match if worn together but would be able to wear alone as well (e.g., not curved to align with the e-ring and look strange by itself).

 

[LD]

Your wedding band will be an issue. To fit with the fing that you envisage, it really needs to mimic the side of the knot so will undulate. The problem with that is that wearing on its own it will look dreadful. I know because I had one exactly like this. Thankfully I divorced and got rid of the problem that way! My current wedding bands (I have two, one in platinum and one in y/gold) are both plain bands and I am much much much happier with them!

You could wear it with a plain band BUT there will be a gap issue between the two rings. Personally, that would drive me bonkers but it may not be a problem for you. I would suggest putting on the ring in the shop with a plain band to get an idea of how it will look.

With pave, there are certain things to be aware of. Pave is not really a great choice for an e-ring because they are more prone to popping out - no matter who makes it! This is because you have tiny tiny prongs and tiny tiny diamonds so there's far less tolerance than with bigger prongs. Also, if your weight changes over the years, a pave ring is virtually impossible to re-size more than a tiny bit.

My only other advice (take it or leave it!!!!!) is that this is not a traditional ring and looks like a dress ring not an e-ring. Whilst you love it now, I wonder if it will stand the test of time for you? If you're considering having the ring made anyway, how about something that incorporates a love note on either side of the shank but the Alex is the main focus. In the current design, you see the design and the Alex looks like an afterthought. To me, it should be the other way around. I hope you're not offended by me saying that? Clearly this is all about personal likes and dislikes but sometimes it helps to gather all thoughts and then I feel I've made a really good decision!

 

[chrono]

Take your time to think through this. It is very non traditional and will you be bothered if others mistake it for a RHR? Will you be bothered that your wedding band will not sit flush with it? Will you still love it 15 years from now?