All About Asschers

[Mara]

I have become smitten with asschers! It was only a matter of time...I tried one on last year at a jewelry mart and saw a gal at the salon with a beautiful 2.5c one...so now I have some questions. Obviously I love rounds and know enough about them to get by.

But what about Asschers? Fancies are a mystery to most of us round lovers, and I realized recently that I don''''t know one blooming thing about finding a great asscher.

So...I''''m hoping the experts will chime in here, what makes a good asscher? What am I looking for?

I was thinking that idealscope and light return would make it easy, obviously you look for the most reds and some blacks right? But I guess not, not if you want that beautiful step pattern that you fall into when you stare at it. It seems as though you need excellent symmetry and a blend of that good light return, coupled with scint/contrast of the blacks?

Input please! I''''ll also post a few idealscope images and links of stones I have been looking at and asking questions about what I *think* I am looking at. I would really appreciate it if any fancy experts, aka Dave and others can chime in with some input.

Oh and I should also note that I am in no way buying an asscher anytime soon! I am dreaming of one for a RHR at some point, but who knows when that will be. However, when the time does come, and it very surely will...I want to be prepared!

Thanks in advance!!

 

[Mara]

Here is one I was looking at...the IS image in the next image looks stunning. Any red flags here?

 

[Mara]

Here''s the IS. This one seems to have the great blend of reds and blacks and the clear outline of the asscher step pattern. Is this what I should be looking for in a good asscher IS?

 

[strmrdr]

Asschers are all about patterns.

You have the square pattern.
The windmill pattern.
The crown arrow pattern.
The crown facet pattern.
The outline pattern.
The better each of those is the better the asscher.
Finding one with it all is hard work.

 

[strmrdr]

Thats not an asscher its a square step cut.
No clipped corners and No windmills.
More later...

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Any red flags here?

hahaha - the PRICE??? lol

I''m really wanting an asscher too and look forward to reading the responses you receive. . .I''d love a small asscher around .7-.8 for a RHR. Jax172 has a pretty one around this size set into an antique repro setting and this is EXACTLY what I''m envisioning.

 

[Mara]

Here''s another one, the actual image here in the picture looks like it could have a nice pattern...red flags?

 

[Mara]

and here is the IS image....I''m not comparing pinks/reds to the other image since I know saturation is always up for discussion, but in terms of the pattern, it doesn''t look super clear here? ??

 

[Mara]

So Storm, if it's not an Asscher, why is it being sold as one? Is it more a 'blanket' category?

Also what is a Royal Asscher vs a Asscher? What TECHNICALLY is an Asscher?

Michelle...yes I wish I could own that puppy...hehehe....

My dream for an Asscher would be one where I can clearly see the step/fall into abyss pattern, around 1.8c set into a beautiful very thin pave setting with things such as claw prongs etc, alot of detail but delicate.

By the way I am using WF's stuff here, because they have images of the stones, the information, Sarins and IS images for most of their ES stones...so it makes it easy for me to compare.

 

[valeria101]

Hm... I am no expert, but don''t think those steps show on the Iscope at all when light return is good enough to color everything red. Even if some marks of the facet rows show as usual, that has nothing to do with the reflections that show in the stone under normal light. Too bad there isn''t some H&A type clue for step cut diamonds

There seems to be some quantity of (more or less) RA bootleg diamonds around, and I would hunt one of those down if anything. Stones like these turn out with Ex-Ex GIA rating in BN''s signature collection - some labeled "hexagonal step cut" and very "Asscherish". Following MMM''s cushion story (stone located at BN, caught by Mark Turnovski) and the Daniel K stones and designs advertised by NiceIce, I bet these guys could chime in with valuable shopping clues...

Jonathan has been advertising an Asscher presentation page for centuries. Hope some good work is under way

 

[Mara]

One more, the image in this particular photo looks to be more of a ''radiant'' look to me than an ''asscher step''...does that make sense?

 

[Mara]

and the IS image...

 

[Mara]

Thats part of my Q Val...should I be looking for 'light return' and coloring everything red? Or do I want more of the black and red contrasts that the first image shows? Or are NONE of these IS images remotely close to what I should be looking for?

From Storm's first post here it sounds as though there are multiple facets of the Asscher beauty...I want to know about them all.

Val, you note a RA....what exactly IS a RA? It is foolproof Asscher beauty? Asschers for Dummies? Or ?

Also if anyone has images, aka head on pictures or IS images of Asschers which do have desirable properties, or if there are particular #'s to look for, I'd love to see/hear it.

Okay that's it for now! Whew! hehehe.

 

[strmrdr]

Indirect light photos are 10x better than IS images for judging asscher patterns.
They just dont seem to respond well to strong back light which the IS needs to work.

Look at the thread by orange_horse with the pictures of their drool worth asscher to get an idea of what to look for.

edit to add: im not to thrilled with the current selection of asschers that WF has up right now.
They have called in some much better stones for clients on request lately.

 

[strmrdr]

Here is a solid 9 asscher.
If it has a crown over 10% otherwise it drops down.

http://www.knoxdiamonds.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=152

edit to add the sym rating knocks it down a little and the table area around the bright center is a little dark.

 

[Matata]

Mara,

Royal Asscher is a patented cut done only by Asscher family in Amsterdam. Faceting is quite different from the square cut emeralds. R. Asscher website: http://www.royalasscher.com/

 

[valeria101]

Date: 1/18/2005 9:35:14 PM
Author: Mara
and here is the IS image....I''m not comparing pinks/reds to the other image since I know saturation is always up for discussion, but in terms of the pattern, it doesn''t look super clear here? ??

I think the steps do show somewhere on the ''scope actually, just didn''t look up enough examples to test the observation properly. It seems that the steps show all the way only when there is some contrast involved, and that doesn''t have to be so. Garry''s Iscope refference chart and one Iscope of a RA show mostly red and little white - meaning bright stones with little contrast brilliance, which is probably a good thing to look for.

Hope some of the notes below would finaly make an expert angry enough to correct them!

However, when those steps get in the position to be prominent (IMO), their reflections appear very separated on the "bow-tie" regions of the stone. The gigsaw pattern (highlighted on photo) appears deep cut when the steps on the crown are large and at a significant angle one from the other. It just so happens that the same arangement makes them showw of crazy and rdetermine that small table & high crown combination by necesity. The same logic appears to pavilion steps - and if they are kept of about equal size and at a significant angle one from the next, three steps bring depth to ridiculous 40-50% or so. I wonder if it wasn''t this that called for extra steps on the old and new original asschers.

At first I thought there was some complicated combination of crown and pavilion angles that produced those steps, but it seems that the size and index of the actual facets is critical. Otherwise, if the average crown and pavilion angles (meaning table-to-girdle and culet-to-girdle are in line with the RI) all is well - small details of contrast still vary qith the slightest angle variation, but the overall picture is still red-pink-and little black.

Honestly, I just wanted to jot down all that my brush with basic geometry helped guess. I know allot is BS because I never cut a diamond. Just hope someone knowledgeable will finaly get angry at the foolish mistakes and chime in!

 

[Mara]

Here is Orange Horse''s asscher:

4.21
Sq. Emerald
9.09 x 9.02 x 6.12
67.8 depth
61% table
Very thick
None
EX
EX
VVS2
H
Faint
GIA cert.

Does anyone know if they posted an IS image? That would be really helpful!

 

[Mara]

and here is the 2nd one. So storm, how would you describe their Asscher? Does it have all the characteristics that you noted above?

 

[valeria101]

Date: 1/18/2005 9:45:33 PM
Author: Mara
Thats part of my Q Val...should I be looking for ''light return'' and coloring everything red?

"RA" = Royal Asscher . The one in the picture below comes from this thread. I would take it for refference !

Any day...

Garry''s chart for emerald cuts doesn''t stray far - there''s a hair less black in the top specimen there, but the difference seems philosophical. (link)

 

[valeria101]

Threre''s some relevant "eye candy" on my computer... if you guys don''t mind

 

[strmrdr]

Yep mara it does.
Their asscher rocks.
Some of them show in the photo''s some dont.
I dont like to use fellow consumers diamonds as demo models so I will use Brian Knox''s I linked above.
I will try and do it yet tonight.

Val,
You are right about the size and the angle of the pavilion steps being critical to proper cut.

 

[strmrdr]

A: strong and even windmills
B: good even crown arrow patern
C: good even crown pattern
D: this step is a little dark

The squares being concentric is pretty odvious.

 

[Mara]

I''ve got alot of reading to do...thanks for chiming in thus far guys!

 

[Cynthia]

Thank you all for the visuals and diagrams. I find this helps so much. I appreciate it !

Cindy

 

[Libster]

Mara,
Thanks for starting this thread. I dream of having an asscher one day for a 3 stone right hand ring using two .60 columbian emeralds I own. I''ll be dreaming for awhile, but have already started preparing hubby for the inevitable! I love orange horse fiance''s asscher. It''s a stunning stone, I could stare into it forever. Strmrdr and Val you guys sure know your stuff! It''s nice to have a place to go to learn about these things.....thanks Leonoid

 

[strmrdr]

Another Drool worthy asscher.

 

[strmrdr]

Too dark under the table.

 

[strmrdr]

The numbers:
from another thread here is what I look for:

An asscher is one of the hardest diamonds to pick from without someone looking at it in my opinion.
Either a trusted vendor, appraiser or yourself needs to eyeball the diamond.

I look for a table in the high 50s very low 60s.
Depth between 65% and 75%
crown 10%-15% <--- very important to add fire.
LW ratio as close to 1 as possible.
clipped cornered square vs more octagonal is personal preference Iv seen some awesome ones both ways and like the clipped cornered square look better.
Then it comes down to all eyeballs.
stong and even windmills?
Are the squares well defined and concentric?
Does it have the 10 mile deep look under indirect lighting?

Id say that better than 95% of them will fail the last 3 tests

I also want to add that vg or better on polish and symetry is another thing I look for.
To me it shows that the cutter took better care in cutting it and there is a better chance of the rest being right.
That isnt always the case but its something to think about.

edited: it was an older version I pasted in the first time.

 

[lindsal]

This thread rocks. Keep it coming, I am learning a ton about one of my favorite new stones. [$$)]