An improved HPD Trilogie with 2.18 E-VS1 center

[Dancing Fire]

@Dancing Fire

What do you think?

Old with 2.21 F-SI1 55.7% table
15.1% CH



New 2.18 E-VS1 with 54.2% table
15.7% CH

IDK

. I don't have them in front of me.

 

[John P]

As far as fire goes, @John Pollard has told me in the past that table size in CBI does not impact performance because all 57 facets are tuned to each other. Perhaps he can explain it again since it seems that there are some PSers who think that smaller tables mean more fire?

What a fun thread. Thank you for the invite @cflutist

As you mentioned, Crafted by Infinity’s fire proposition is the same, diamond to diamond. Table size is irrelevant.

Increasing carat weight increases the size of the dispersive fans, so bigger diamonds bring relatively bigger fire. But at equal weights table size makes no difference within our specific tolerances.

I can use @Dancing Fire's question to illustrate this (thanks DF).

Can you see any differences in fire b/t the smaller 54.2% table vs your 2.79ct with a 56% table?

Image below -

• On the left: Proportions model for cflutist's 2.18 E VS1, 54.2% (Table 1)
• On the right: Proportions model for her 2.79 F VS, 56.6% (Table 2) scaled in diameter to match the E VS1, so weight is equal.

Remember. The concept of a small table increasing fire relies on a meaningful crown height increase. The idea is that dispersive fans will have a chance to grow meaningfully larger before they exit the diamond (click to enlarge).



As you can see: Within our tolerances the crown height increase is meaningless. This is a deliberate result of the tolerances we have chosen.

I’d also note that, while the graphic above is zoomed at some ginormous order of magnitude, it was necessary to zoom it even more to have one pixel of room to generate a green line showing how much “extra room” the CBI with the smaller table has in the diamond.



Bonus history lesson

The old rule of thumb about “smaller table = more fire” comes from transitioning from antique cuts (small table + fat mains) to flatter tops 60-60s (large table + skinny mains). In these cases the crown height increase does becomes meaningful. That’s the genesis of this line of thinking.



Scientifically - Seeing see more fire comes from making the dispersive fans exiting the diamond larger. In our proposition this is fueled by keeping internal reflections unbroken and of specific size. It's not a matter of table size. It’s a matter of extra time and more expense of weight in fine-tuning. The results produce larger internal mirror surfaces, thus larger, more intense dispersive fans your pupils will see as colored flashes.

So bigger carat weight brings relatively bigger fire. But the frequency and intensity of dispersive events are designed be proportionate and consistent for all diamonds within our brand.

I wrote more about this in a thread over in RockyTalky, for anyone who’d like to see more.
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/cbi-fire.242606/#post-4388614

 

[cflutist]

Thank you very much @John Pollard for the thorough explanation.
Hope that this answers the small table questions as it relates to CBI for
@chamois
@LightBright
@Dancing Fire
@MissGotRocks

I tried to compare my 2.18 E-VS1 and 2.79 F-VS1 in our bathroom (with in-ceiling LED lighting) and they both looked like disco balls to me. The frustration I had was that I could not capture it with my phone when I got out of the shower.

 

[arkieb1]

Gorgeous, I was going to ask the same question can you notice much difference between the former and the new replacement diamond?

 

[cflutist]

Gorgeous, I was going to ask the same question can you notice much difference between the former and the new replacement diamond?

Not a lot of difference, but in natural lighting, I do see that the E-VS1 is whiter than my 2.79 F-VS1 CBI (see two of the profile photos that I posted). I cannot see a difference when compared to the two .53 F/VS sidestones (they are too small).

I picked this new CBI mainly because I wanted an E color, and a VS1 mind clean stone. Now all five of my CBIs are VVS2 to VS2. Also the .01mm difference in size was perfect to set it in my existing Trilogie mounting.
I could not have gone larger because at a size 4.5, the two side stones are already set at an angle for full finger coverage.

Overall I am very happy with my upgraded Trilogie. Thanks for asking @arkieb1 .

 

[arkieb1]

Looking at your pics we can see the E is slightly whiter and brighter (which I'm sure you see more IRL) but the great thing is these stones are so well cut the light return is fantastic on all of them, irrespective of colour!!!

 

[cflutist]

Some photos under stage lighting, flute on my lap, piccolo on the music stand, and my phone in my right hand, lol

 

[AV_]

... keeping internal reflections unbroken and of specific size.

ETAS ?

 

[John P]

ETAS ?

Useful for checking results. Here's some dynamic ETAS for you: 0.75ct (5.9mm).

 

[AV_]

@John Pollard Counting them dots! (method is of the essence, of course...)

 

[cflutist]

@John Pollard

How many dots are generated when sunlight through an airplane window hits a diamond? Does the size of the diamond matter for the number of dots?
I saw this once when I was wearing my pear-shaped diamond and noticed that I could see reflections of the table.
Sadly, I have not seen this with my CBIs yet (all red eye flights).

 

[John P]

How many dots are generated when sunlight through an airplane window hits a diamond?

It's a function of compound mirror integrity. @AV_ appropriately ID'd the ETAS effect (effective total angular size). It's reverse ray-tracing. In the bottom photo the rays stop within 10cm of the diamond's crown. Most events are recombined, showing as bright white flashes against the interior wall. The next photo up shows events around 20cm from the crown. Dispersive fans are separating into component colors and your pupils have a great chance of seeing those events as flashes of fire. The top photo shows events 30cm from the crown. That's the payoff area in this case. Big, intense, clear separation of component colors. Big, pure, intense fire. Say, doesn't everyone do reverse ray-tracing at 35,000 feet?

Does the size of the diamond matter for the number of dots?

Not necessarily. Identically crafted diamonds would produce the same ETAS pattern. But as the diamond size increases the payoff area starts even closer to the crown.

 

[AV_]

.
Interesting instructions for FIRE photography, to whom it may concern:

It's a function of compound mirror integrity. @AV_ appropriately ID'd the ETAS effect (effective total angular size). It's reverse ray-tracing. In the bottom photo the rays stop within 10cm of the diamond's crown. Most events are recombined, showing as bright white flashes against the interior wall. The next photo up shows events around 20cm from the crown. Dispersive fans are separating into component colors and your pupils have a great chance of seeing those events as flashes of fire. The top photo shows events 30cm from the crown. That's the payoff area in this case. Big, intense, clear separation of component colors. Bis, pure, intense fire.

Beautiful signature of a diamond! & unexpected.

 

[AV_]

How many dots are generated when sunlight ... hits a diamond? Does the size of the diamond matter for the number of dots?

What I am thinking: such counting of dots might be a nice measure of cut, accounting for the real size of these things & the fact that they are not meant to be seen motionless.

[From the Seeing is Believing school of metrics... ]

@John Pollard

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I apparently started reading this thread when you posted it and was interrupted and never posted after clicking like on your first pictures! As you know, I already thought this ring was perfect, so now I suppose it is extra perfect! Oh, what a dream an E VS1 would be! I thought the F's were fabulous already! You have three gorgeous rings!

 

[mermaid]

I love Trilogie, but with the current price drop, I could not pass on upgrading my center stone. I replaced the cut to order 2.21 F-SI1 with a 2.18 E-VS1 CBI. The two side CBIs are still .53s F, VS1 and VS2.
There is a very slight difference in tint but my phone is having trouble capturing it.
Size 4.5 ring.

The new AGS report



Indoors in natural light and off white ceiling.

OMG, now that bling is amazingly drool worthy. I wish I had Es and Fs. Yummy ring!

 

[mermaid]

Oh, the dots! One of my cats goes nuts for those dots. I actually hide my ring/bracelet from the indoor sunlight when he's around because he drives me mad. =o)

 

[goldenfire]

Just stunningly gorgeous!!!

 

[Donnass117]

Gorgeous diamonds and ring!

 

[SimoneDi]

Beautiful new center stone!

 

[Catmom]

Gorgeous and looks perfect with your bracelets!!!