Another Sapphire Question, what do you think of this stone?

[nwcornflake]

I know there have been lots of questions on sapphires that I have seen on here, but I have an additional one. I found this sapphire for sale online, and was wondering what peoples opinions of it are. I have attached a few pictures, as well as a gem report. I am new to colored stones, and so while this stone looks good to me, I really don't know enough to tell if its good or not, so thought I would ask. Thanks for any help!!

 

[gongli]

Re: Another Sapphire Question, what do you think of this sto

looks nice, but might be photoshopped.. the hand has a slight bluish cast, and the signature is pretty vivid.

 

[GemFever]

Re: Another Sapphire Question, what do you think of this sto

Ah, I also saw this one on ebay. Sooo pretty in the pic. If you buy it, let us know what you think!

- Anya

 

[chrono]

Re: Another Sapphire Question, what do you think of this sto

Looks almost too good to be true. Have you done any research on the vendor?

 

[nwcornflake]

Re: Another Sapphire Question, what do you think of this sto

It is for sale from a ebay store located in India, and they have 100% positive reviews, but other than that there doesn't seem to be any other information I can find on them. The 100% positive reviews seems good, but like others have said, it looks too good to be true.

 

[chrono]

Re: Another Sapphire Question, what do you think of this sto

Anything on Toolhaus? How's their return policy?

 

[LD]

Re: Another Sapphire Question, what do you think of this sto

The lab report states that it has been heated - what it doesn't state is whether there has been additional treatment i.e. BE diffusion. If it's BE diffused then, although pretty, it's not perhaps worth the money - unless you're ok with treatments.

Something is ringing in the back of my mind about this vendor but I can't recall what it was. I don't think it was positive though. Will try to do a search on the forum and see if I can find anything.

 

[GemFever]

Re: Another Sapphire Question, what do you think of this sto

I asked the seller a question about this exact stone a few days ago, here are the responses:

"Dear sir , yes stone is certified ! It is normal heated sapphire ! And lab name is igitl ! It is best lab of jaipur india ! We give guarantee for other labs also Gia , so if there is any sort of problem u can give us back ! Thanks and have a nice day regards vaibhav "

They didn't respond to my inquiry about color zoning. I followed up about the heating, the second response:

"Dear sir , thanks for mail ! Untreated means it is not treated for color enhsncement or any infusion of any other Matireal ! Anyway it is normal heated stone thanks"

Dunno why they kept calling me sir Hope this helps!

- Anya

 

[LD]

Re: Another Sapphire Question, what do you think of this sto

I asked the seller a question about this exact stone a few days ago, here are the responses:

"Dear sir , yes stone is certified ! It is normal heated sapphire ! And lab name is igitl ! It is best lab of jaipur india ! We give guarantee for other labs also Gia , so if there is any sort of problem u can give us back ! Thanks and have a nice day regards vaibhav "

They didn't respond to my inquiry about color zoning. I followed up about the heating, the second response:

"Dear sir , thanks for mail ! Untreated means it is not treated for color enhsncement or any infusion of any other Matireal ! Anyway it is normal heated stone thanks"

Dunno why they kept calling me sir Hope this helps!

- Anya

Yes but where does it say untreated????? This is what I would question. I also would want to know if the lab is one that CAN test for BE. Not many can.

 

[GemFever]

Re: Another Sapphire Question, what do you think of this sto

It said "untreated" in the ebay description. The stone isn't super cheap, so I wasn't that suspicious of it. Nothing like the ones that sell for $10.

(like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Natural-blue-sapphire-4-00-ct-oval-cut-africa-gem-/120830544687?pt=Loose_Gemstones_1&hash=item1c220fcb2f)

I assume those are just glass? Or some kind of synthetic? Anyway, sorry if this new link constitutes a threadjack

 

[T L]

Re: Another Sapphire Question, what do you think of this sto

The lab report states that it has been heated - what it doesn't state is whether there has been additional treatment i.e. BE diffusion. If it's BE diffused then, although pretty, it's not perhaps worth the money - unless you're ok with treatments.

LD,
You took the words right out of my mouth. Buyer beware as heat can also mean diffusion, and I'm unfamiliar with that gem lab. I only trust AGL, GIA, GRS, SSEF and Gueblin for corundum as well. I'm not the only one.

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: Another Sapphire Question, what do you think of this sto

Sorry to pile on, but I also agree with TL and LD. Many sellers rely on labs to tell them that the gem has had no treatment or heat only. Its one thing if the lab says it is untreated, but if it shows signs of heat treatment, then the next question to ask is whether the stone has had any other treatments, and as LD and TL indicate, it takes specialized and extremely costly equipment to test for lattice or beryllium diffusion. Most labs don't have this equipment and can't give a definitive answer. Since sellers can't be sure either way, many assume no additional treatment and sell it as heat only. It is just not cost effective for the seller to send every stone off for additional testing, and many are willing to gamble that the buyer won't follow up with additional testing to find out.

That looks to be a beautifully colored stone with good cutting and a fairly uncommon cut for ebay. But the vibrancy of the color makes me think right away of Be treatment...that could be photoshopping, a vivid stone, or chemical treatment. I'd be careful.

 

[LD]

Re: Another Sapphire Question, what do you think of this sto

It said "untreated" in the ebay description. The stone isn't super cheap, so I wasn't that suspicious of it. Nothing like the ones that sell for $10.

(like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Natural-blue-sapphire-4-00-ct-oval-cut-africa-gem-/120830544687?pt=Loose_Gemstones_1&hash=item1c220fcb2f)

I assume those are just glass? Or some kind of synthetic? Anyway, sorry if this new link constitutes a threadjack

That means nothing unless backed by a lab report - in any event it's incorrect because heat is a treatment! So this is a treated stone. The question is how much more has it been treated other than heat.

 

[T L]

Re: Another Sapphire Question, what do you think of this sto

It said "untreated" in the ebay description. The stone isn't super cheap, so I wasn't that suspicious of it. Nothing like the ones that sell for $10.

(like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Natural-blue-sapphire-4-00-ct-oval-cut-africa-gem-/120830544687?pt=Loose_Gemstones_1&hash=item1c220fcb2f)

I assume those are just glass? Or some kind of synthetic? Anyway, sorry if this new link constitutes a threadjack

You should always be suspicious of corundum from any unknown dealer, no matter the cost. In fact, there's quite a bit of pricey be-difused and synthetic sapphire sold to uneducated consumers. It can be shark infested waters if you're not careful.

 

[chrono]

Re: Another Sapphire Question, what do you think of this sto

That's odd; let me recap. The stone listed has a lab memo stating that it is heated but the vendor claims it is unheated? I am more inclined to believe the memo that it has been heated. The next step is to find out if it has been diffused because it falls into the category of heating which almost all labs do not distinguish between the two due to the additional testing required.

 

[T L]

Re: Another Sapphire Question, what do you think of this sto

That's odd; let me recap. The stone listed has a lab memo stating that it is heated but the vendor claims it is unheated? I am more inclined to believe the memo that it has been heated. The next step is to find out if it has been diffused because it falls into the category of heating which almost all labs do not distinguish between the two due to the additional testing required.

That's why I'm done with most Asian labs for corundum. I had a bad experience with AIGS, and I heard GIT is not trustworthy for corundum from a gemologist who told me he could still see signs of diffusion on stones that had a GIT report of "heated" only. A lab like AGL, or GIA, will say something like "not tested for foreign elements" if they find a sapphire heated, but they cannot determine if it's been diffused (which is an extra charge to the customer). A smaller lab will say "heated" which we can defer to mean diffused as well, but we don't know for sure.

 

[LD]

Re: Another Sapphire Question, what do you think of this sto

I emailed the Vendor and asked about BE diffusion.

He told me that the sapphire was heated but definitely not BE diffused! I was tempted to email back and ask how he knew but in all honesty why bother? I wouldn't buy from him because if he were being honest he would say something like "the lab can't test for BE diffusion" or "if you want to have it tested for that I can arrange for it to be done" but the fact that he categorically states it hasn't been diffused is enough to send warning signals to me.

 

[T L]

Re: Another Sapphire Question, what do you think of this sto

I emailed the Vendor and asked about BE diffusion.

He told me that the sapphire was heated but definitely not BE diffused! I was tempted to email back and ask how he knew but in all honesty why bother? I wouldn't buy from him because if he were being honest he would say something like "the lab can't test for BE diffusion" or "if you want to have it tested for that I can arrange for it to be done" but the fact that he categorically states it hasn't been diffused is enough to send warning signals to me.

Sometimes be-diffusion can be determined diagnostically without expensive equipment. I sent two heated sapphires to AGL in NYC and one was determined to not have be-diffusion based on simple laboratory analysis by head gemologist Christopher Smith. The second sapphire was one that he was unable to determine with diagnostic testing, so I had him ship it off for LA-ICP-MS testing, which it is currently undergoing.

I know Jeff White and others sell sapphires that are heated, and without major lab reports, so perhaps Jeff or his suppliers can easily tell that these sapphires are simply heated via diagnostic testing. I am wondering if this dealer can determine that as well, or he simply trusts his supplier (which isn't always a great idea when it comes to corundum), or he's just trying to make a sale. In any case, this is an expensive stone, so if you're going to buy a sapphire that you cannot definitively test with one of the major labs, I would only buy from someone with a rock solid return policy, or one that allows you to have it tested at AGL, GIA, GRS, SSEF, Gueblin. You really need a seller you can trust when it comes to corundum.

 

[T L]

Re: Another Sapphire Question, what do you think of this sto

This seller, starjewelry.in, also has other blue sapphires that are listed as untreated in the item description, but the lab reports show "indications of heating." He also has yellow sapphires for sale, which are often be-diffused, and his listings state "certified," but he won't show a photo of the lab report, nor indicate the treatment in the descriptions. I would not buy anything from this seller at all based on this, and I think he should be reported to ebay for fraudulent practices as the item description in the listing is not correct for the blue sapphires in question. His yellow sapphires are very expensive too, and I suspect be-diffusion, which would make them worth ten times less.

Nothing in toolhaus.org on him, and he's a top rated seller, so with jewelry/gems, you really need to be sharp and very educated to find a fraudelent seller.

Here's one of his yellow sapphires for sale, the title indicates its certified, but no photo of the lab report, nor even a mention of the treatment in the listing description. It's $2500 too!! Sorry, but this really irks me.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-69-ct-Nat...2351?pt=Loose_Gemstones_1&hash=item43abf1ff7f

He only has 202 feedbacks so far, so I suspect he's relatively new. Just wait until he tries to trick an educated consumer.

 

[LD]

Re: Another Sapphire Question, what do you think of this sto

TL - I had no intention of buying from him I just asked the question out of curiosity. I know that BE can be detected (sometimes) without lab equipment BUT if you were a vendor and had somebody asking about it you would (a) assume they knew what they were talking about and then (b) tell them how they know it hadn't been BE diffused! The vendor did neither he just stated categorically that it hadn't and referred me to the lab report(!) and the email had a "hard sell" feel to it.

I'm positive this vendor was mentioned earlier in the year and there was a debate about a stone from them. I can't recall what the stone was but I do recall that there were concerns. Unfortunately I can't find the thread

 

[T L]

Re: Another Sapphire Question, what do you think of this sto

TL - I had no intention of buying from him I just asked the question out of curiosity. I know that BE can be detected (sometimes) without lab equipment BUT if you were a vendor and had somebody asking about it you would (a) assume they knew what they were talking about and then (b) tell them how they know it hadn't been BE diffused! The vendor did neither he just stated categorically that it hadn't and referred me to the lab report(!) and the email had a "hard sell" feel to it.

I'm positive this vendor was mentioned earlier in the year and there was a debate about a stone from them. I can't recall what the stone was but I do recall that there were concerns. Unfortunately I can't find the thread

I know what you're saying LD. I agree that was a bit disconcerting. Well, based on what I just found out, I wouldn't buy a tadpole from him.

There's another seller with a similar ebay name, starruby.in, but I'm not sure if they're affilliated, or if that's the seller you're thinking about. This one is starjewelry.in.

 

[LD]

Re: Another Sapphire Question, what do you think of this sto

Aaaaah maybe! That's the problem with age - names all become a blur!

 

[Arcadian]

Re: Another Sapphire Question, what do you think of this sto

starruby.in based on my experience with them, they speak perfect english. they will also tell you if any of their stones are treated or not (be it heat or oil or what have you) nothing but great things about them.

This guy sounds quite a bit shady. if the lab report says heated and he's selling as untreated, thats big red flag number 1 right there. I'm going to doubt that there's an english discrepancy there if its coming off the report.

-A

 

[Justin_Cutter]

Re: Another Sapphire Question, what do you think of this sto

I also have had good experience with starruby.in. Just to help with clarification.
~Justin

 

[T L]

Re: Another Sapphire Question, what do you think of this sto

starruby.in based on my experience with them, they speak perfect english. they will also tell you if any of their stones are treated or not (be it heat or oil or what have you) nothing but great things about them.

This guy sounds quite a bit shady. if the lab report says heated and he's selling as untreated, thats big red flag number 1 right there. I'm going to doubt that there's an english discrepancy there if its coming off the report.

-A

I emailed him and asked him why the listing said untreated when the lab report specifically says "indications of heating." His response what pitiful. Here's his response in somewhat broken English, but I do think he knows what he's saying.

"Actually these says there r lot of treatment for color and inclusion eg borex etc ! This stone is just normal high pressure heating only thanx"

So basically, I read that to mean that because this particular sapphire didn't undergo what he regards as an invasive treatment, and only heat, that means it's untreated.

Justin, Arcadian
Thanks for the clarification about the two stores. It should be known that this store we're talking about is starjewelry.in

 

[Arcadian]

Re: Another Sapphire Question, what do you think of this sto

what you got from it kinda sounds about right TL but hell you never know. nonetheless, the blue fingers in the pic are kinda
off for color. all cameras aren't perfect but well, you know....


-A

 

[chrono]

Re: Another Sapphire Question, what do you think of this sto

So basically, I read that to mean that because this particular sapphire didn't undergo what he regards as an invasive treatment, and only heat, that means it's untreated. [/b]

Very "interesting" intepretation by the vendor, which I agree with TL that it's ridiculous!

 

[pregcurious]

Re: Another Sapphire Question, what do you think of this sto

looks nice, but might be photoshopped.. the hand has a slight bluish cast, and the signature is pretty vivid.

I agree with this. Parts of the hand look like a weird green color, and the blue signature and stamp on the certificate look bizarrely bright.

 

[harshilzaveri]

Re: Another Sapphire Question, what do you think of this sto

This is Harshil Zaveri from StarRuby.in replying.

Just to clarify... we are not affiliated to the ebay vendor starjewelry.in in any way whatsoever. Infact, we have already filed a complaint with eBay because this seller is illegally using a username identical to our domain name (which is against eBay policies in the first place). The domain name http://www.starjewelry.in belongs to us but the eBay id starjewelry.in does not. I have had this problem with many customers confusing that seller with my store. It is quite clear from the discussion in this thread that the vendor is misrepresenting gemstones, and to make it worse he is using our reputation to do so (infact if you see the pictures he takes with the stone in his hand, it is very identical to our pictures style).

Speaking of IGITL, I would not trust their reports because from all we know the person signing the certificates might not even be a qualified gemologists. I have come across a couple of synthetic sapphires that had IGITL certificates stating "Natural Sapphire - Indications of Heating" but seeing under a microscope, one could clearly make out they were lab grown sapphires.

@Arcadian & Justin_Cutter - Thanks for the heads up!

Thanks & regards,
Harshil Zaveri

 

[T L]

Re: Another Sapphire Question, what do you think of this sto

This is Harshil Zaveri from StarRuby.in replying.

Just to clarify... we are not affiliated to the ebay vendor starjewelry.in in any way whatsoever. Infact, we have already filed a complaint with eBay because this seller is illegally using a username identical to our domain name (which is against eBay policies in the first place). The domain name http://www.starjewelry.in belongs to us but the eBay id starjewelry.in does not. I have had this problem with many customers confusing that seller with my store. It is quite clear from the discussion in this thread that the vendor is misrepresenting gemstones, and to make it worse he is using our reputation to do so (infact if you see the pictures he takes with the stone in his hand, it is very identical to our pictures style).

Speaking of IGITL, I would not trust their reports because from all we know the person signing the certificates might not even be a qualified gemologists. I have come across a couple of synthetic sapphires that had IGITL certificates stating "Natural Sapphire - Indications of Heating" but seeing under a microscope, one could clearly make out they were lab grown sapphires.

@Arcadian & Justin_Cutter - Thanks for the heads up!

Thanks & regards,
Harshil Zaveri

Thank you Harshil for the clarification and the warning about IGITL.