Antique French 18k yellow gold chain

[oldmancoyote]

Same source on the weight marking; this chain is not marked for weight, the other one is - at 34 grams, if I read the marks correctly, or possibly 25? I couldn't find it the other day, and I also gave you wrong info about the date: The eagle head is in use in Paris since 1847, not 1896, so it's not much use to date the piece.

 

[iheartscience]

Wow, it''s gorgeous! And it looks great with your locket, too!

 

[Skippy123]

fafa, that is so Gorgeous!!!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Beautiful chain! I love it!

 

[pelican]

Not to threadjack, but I have a chain that''s very similar to yours! I purchased it almost 12 years ago at a small jewelry store in Beaune, France - I never realized it was a watch chain. Here''s a pic...

 

[pelican]

Here''s a closeup of the filigree - it''s almost identical to yours:

 

[pelican]

I couldn''t get a clear picture of the markings, but one side of the clasp says "750" and "N/S" (which I assume is the maker''s mark) and the other side has a tiny owl. Any clue what this means?

 

[oldmancoyote]

Actually, Pelican, that is most probably NOT a watch chain, unless the end link has been changed (but it seems to have the control marks on it). Watch chains have two clasps - one to secure the chain to the garment, the other to secure the watch to the chain.

 

[pelican]

Date: 3/8/2009 5:39:13 PM
Author: oldmancoyote
Actually, Pelican, that is most probably NOT a watch chain, unless the end link has been changed (but it seems to have the control marks on it). Watch chains have two clasps - one to secure the chain to the garment, the other to secure the watch to the chain.

Oh - that makes sense.

Thanks!

 

[oldmancoyote]

Date: 3/8/2009 5:37:27 PM
Author: pelican
I couldn't get a clear picture of the markings, but one side of the clasp says '750' and 'N/S' (which I assume is the maker's mark) and the other side has a tiny owl. Any clue what this means?

Hmm, interesting - the owl is the sign of an imported piece that passes French assay controls; the "750" mark alone is used in Italy, Germany and Belgium since the 1930s/1940s, so that would make it a later piece (perhaps a modern copy). The position of the owl will also mark the weight as shown in the post at the top of this page. The owl counts for 1 if it's with its head towards the "top" of the link, and for 10 if the head points to the rest of the chain.

I can't make too much sense of the N/S mark - it could be a maker's mark, it could be something else. Actually, if you can manage a photo of this side of the chain, it may provide the best clues as to where and when it was made.

ETA: you are welcome!

 

[kcoursolle]

Gorgeous chain!! I love the panel work on it, just stunning!

 

[pelican]

Ok, I was able to get clearer pictures of the markings.
The N and S actually have a squiggly mark between them, not a slash - but I can''t make out what it is.

 

[pelican]

owl marking

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

fantastic chain! I love the intricate filigree.

 

[oldmancoyote]

Date: 3/8/2009 6:58:08 PM
Author: pelican
Ok, I was able to get clearer pictures of the markings.
The N and S actually have a squiggly mark between them, not a slash - but I can''t make out what it is.

The owl is definitely a French import mark. The other mark seems German, together with a maker''s initials, but I can''t help much more except to say it''s not French!!! (Or Italian, or English)

 

[pelican]

Date: 3/10/2009 5:34:42 PM
Author: oldmancoyote

Date: 3/8/2009 6:58:08 PM

Author: pelican

Ok, I was able to get clearer pictures of the markings.

The N and S actually have a squiggly mark between them, not a slash - but I can''t make out what it is.

The owl is definitely a French import mark. The other mark seems German, together with a maker''s initials, but I can''t help much more except to say it''s not French!!! (Or Italian, or English)

Very interesting - thanks for your help!

 

[que_sera_sera1102]

This is the first time in my life when I can see such a beautiful gold chain. It''s very pretty, I think it''s rare and very hard to find out now. Where did you find it? It must have been made by famous person.

 

[musey]

GORGEOUS!!

 

[jcrow]

wow! they are both very beautiful!

 

[Pandora II]

I wonder if it''s a muff chain? They tend to be on the longer side - although I''ve not seen one that is as decorative as that before.

Coyote, that''s a great book - would it be useful for French silver hallmarks? English hallmarks I have Jackson''s, and I can find my way round a lot of the Scandinavian marks, but the French ones are a blooming nightmare.

I rarely buy French pieces, but my father does and a good book would be a great present - he speaks it fluently so no problem if book is not en anglais...

 

[oldmancoyote]

Hi Pandora,

Tardy is pretty good for hallmarks (70 countries or so), but has no info whatsoever on maker''s marks - which is the most frustrating part for me...

However, for €30 or so on amazon.fr, it''s definitely worth the buy! (ISBN 2-901622-15-1)

 

[T L]

Fafa,
That''s really beautiful and looks lovely against your nice and very young neckline. I wish I was so lucky (not only about the chain, but the neckline - ha!!).

 

[oldmancoyote]

Pandora - sorry, the ISBN I gave you is for the gold and platinum marks. The ISBN for the silver marks is 2-855541-17-4 (and for some strange reason it''s €40 instead of 30)

 

[fafa]

Date: 3/7/2009 6:41:43 AM
Author: oldmancoyote
From Poinçons d''or de platine et de palladium, Tardy, Paris, 13th edition 1996 on the marking of chains, bracelets, necklaces for length:

Thanks for posting these info. It looks like a book I''ve been searching for long. Too bad that I can''t read French. I''m curious about what the 3 eagle heads pointing to the right means. Could you please also explain the meaning of the 2 eagle heads at the bottom left corner? Thanks a lot.

 

[fafa]

Date: 3/7/2009 7:02:18 AM
Author: oldmancoyote
Same source on the weight marking; this chain is not marked for weight, the other one is - at 34 grams, if I read the marks correctly, or possibly 25? I couldn''t find it the other day, and I also gave you wrong info about the date: The eagle head is in use in Paris since 1847, not 1896, so it''s not much use to date the piece.

Does it mean you need 2 eagle head marks to read the weight? Can you combine 2 marks on 2 different clasps for the weight reading? This chain weights 11.1g. My longer chain weights 25.5g. So I guess it should read 25 rather than 34 unless the chain had been shortened. There''s an expamle on this page saying "2+5=7". What does it mean? Thank you coyote!

 

[fafa]

Thank you thing2of2, Skippy123, diamondseeker2006, kcoursolle, Hudson_Hawk, que_sera_sera1102, musey, jcrow, and tourmaline_lover. I''m glad so many people like this lucky ebay find. I know what people think about ebay but there are many good stories on here too.

Pandora II, what is a muff chain? Is it a long watch chain?

 

[fafa]

Date: 3/8/2009 5:31:31 PM
Author: pelican
Not to threadjack, but I have a chain that''s very similar to yours! I purchased it almost 12 years ago at a small jewelry store in Beaune, France - I never realized it was a watch chain. Here''s a pic...

Wow...what a beautiful chain! You won''t be surprise that I like your chain a lot, right? Yes, our chains look very similar. Maybe it was a popular design back then.

 

[oldmancoyote]

Date: 3/12/2009 4:28:35 AM
Author: fafa

Date: 3/7/2009 6:41:43 AM
Author: oldmancoyote
From Poinçons d''or de platine et de palladium, Tardy, Paris, 13th edition 1996 on the marking of chains, bracelets, necklaces for length:

Thanks for posting these info. It looks like a book I''ve been searching for long. Too bad that I can''t read French. I''m curious about what the 3 eagle heads pointing to the right means. Could you please also explain the meaning of the 2 eagle heads at the bottom left corner? Thanks a lot.

The 3 eagle heads indicate that the last link in the chain is not soldered close - so it shouldn''t be interpreted as "the chain has been cut". Never seen it in real life...

The two eagle heads at right angles are a mark used on gold ingots to indicate fineness and (for a certain period) duty payment on assay marking.

On the weight marking, you don''t need two eagle heads, but it''s likely you will need one rhinoceros head (for tens of grams) and one or two eagle heads for grams. The place on the final ring indicates how much each mark is worth as in the diagram; you then sum all the marks values. All the weight markings should be on the same ring.

Now that I think about it, the marking is probably 26 (one rhino head in the 2 position (20) + one eagle at 2 (2) + one eagle at 4 (4)= 26). Initially I thought it was one marking at 1, one at 2 and one at 4, which is why I read it as 34 - or 25. I could only tell that one mark at 2 is a rhino and that the mark at 4 is an eagle, but the other mark is difficult to make out. I hope this makes sense...

Finally, a muff chain is a long chain used for a fur muff (to keep your hands warm). I think the longest of your two chains may be one.