Find your diamond
Find your jewelry
shape
carat
color
clarity

Any New Yorkers want to help me look at stones?

GreenewithEnvy, I highly doubt that the vendor will give/send me anything before I'm right there in front of him, so unless Brian is at my back and call, which isn't going to happen), there's no good way for me to determine if a stone is a candidate for re-cutting.

I really don't want a round (I'm not trying to offend any of you round lovers out there, my original was a round and I loved it), but I've fallen in love with the pillowy shape of a cushion. If I can get David to come with me, do you think that will ensure that I get a good stone (assuming that there is one in their inventory)?

I completely understand that I'm going to lose carat weight as compared to the stone I have and I'm fine with that (well, that's a tiny fib...I wish that I had more $$$ to get the same/similar carat weight AND an eye clean stone), but I will not sacrafice cut or clarity for size. I certainly don't need IF, but I can't stand being able to see inclusions face up...

daysie, I feel for you and your situation. That totally sucks. All I can tell you is that you have to do whatever you think will make you the happiest in the long run. I'm honestly concerned that when all of this is said and done, and hopefully, I have a ring on my finger that I love, I'm STILL going to look at it and have negative feelings because of the horrible experience I've had.
 
yennyfire said:
daysie, I feel for you and your situation. That totally sucks. All I can tell you is that you have to do whatever you think will make you the happiest in the long run. I'm honestly concerned that when all of this is said and done, and hopefully, I have a ring on my finger that I love, I'm STILL going to look at it and have negative feelings because of the horrible experience I've had.
Click to expand...

Yenny, I can see why you could have negative feelings about this experience, but when it's all said and done and you have a stone you are happier with you can put a positive spin on this. You should be happy and proud of yourself for persevering and getting what you paid for and ultimately winding up something you love! Years from now I think you'll grow quite fond of this stone to be and if it's ever to become an heirloom - you should maybe even write a little journal of how it came to be. It will make for a fabulous story for your children/grandchildren and beyond.
 
MacW...I do not have anyone here in Atlanta I trust (that's why I was asking in an earlier reply if anyone knew of anyone near my home). I wish I did! :(sad

Septsparkle, I certainly hope that you're right! I hadn't thought about the fact that I'm persevering and standing up for myself...just that $32K is a hell of a lot of money to have thrown away and I'm going to fight until this is made right.

On a totally different note, today is my daughter's 4th birthday and I'm about to get the kids fed/dressed before we head to her party, so I won't be back until this evening...please don't take my lack of timely repsonse as me being unappreciative of any additional suggestions/comments....I'll be back! :))
 
Happy Birthday to your daughter! Have a great day!
 
Honestly, not all appraisers are made equal and I don't even know if I would blindly trust an appraiser. I have used several recommended here on PS and the only one I really trust is Richard Sherwood - he is Florida though but I have shipped stones from NYC there. However, I guess you don't really have a better option and it is better than nothing. Plus, with the cushions out there today it is unlikely that they will be able to find a top top performing cushion anyways.

My suggestions to you is to request the following:
Cut: Cushion Brilliant or Old Mine Brilliant (depending if you want modern or chunky)
Table: 48% to 60%
Depth: 64% to 69%
Color: Whatever you are comfortable with
Clarity: Whatever you are comfortable with
Polish: VG and up
Symmetry: VG and up
Ratio: 1.04 and below if you want a square
Picture of a Plot: Send them what you want in the GIA Plot

If you want a chunky cushion ...
ChunkyGIAPlot.jpg

If you want a modern 8 main cushion ..
8MainGIAPlot.jpg
 
Green with Envy said:
A quick look at what is in inventory... she is going to get a stone smaller than 3ct if she wants a round G color VS2. i just hope she is prepared to trade in her current over 3 ct diamond for a round that is significantly smaller. plus- no way they are going to give her a price as low as a PS vender.
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree, it seems reasonable to assume that sticking with a cushion shape, a decent cut, and going up in clarity (and I'd go up to VS2 in a larger stone if you want it to be eye clean) will substantially decrease the size of the diamond you will end up with. Are you prepared to be satisfied with a diamond under under 3 carats? Or under 2 carats? I don't think that's been addressed adequately in this thread. I mean, it's not going to be a one-to-one switch; something's gotta give to go up in clarity at least one grade.

I'm also concerned about making this emotion-wrought purchase part of family trip. You're already stressed out about this; are you sure that you want the pressure of a family trip on top of this?

As for relying on an appraiser -- I think it's a good idea to have an appraiser there. But as far as determining whether the stone is eye clean to your standards -- well, the appraiser is not going to be able to do that for you. And as far as I can tell, the visible inclusion is your main beef with this stone -- you like the size, the shape and the color, and the setting as well. You were already fooled once by the jewelry store lights, and I can see it happening again, with or without an appraiser there, because it's impossible to examine the diamond in all lighting conditions when you're in a retail store working under a time constraint. And, again, unless you substantially up the clarity grade -- VS2 is the lowest I'd go in a stone that large if you can see inclusions and they bother you -- you'll either pay more money for a larger stone with higher clarity or keep the dollar amount the same and go up in clarity and down in size. And an appraiser just can't make those decisions for you. Also, are the stones they going to show you loose? Or are they going to show you stones mounted in other settings that they may tell you they can switch out and put into your setting? If you are looking at stones mounted in settings, that makes the task for you and the appraiser even more difficult.

Seriously, I'd give a second thought to learning to love the ring you already own rather than go through all this hassle with no guarantee of a better outcome. Sorry to be harsh, but that's how I see the situation as it has been outlined here.
 
I must have missed the main part of the original purchase. Was the setting made for the stone you currently have? If it was it s custom if it wasnt its not.
 
yennyfire said:
GreenewithEnvy, I highly doubt that the vendor will give/send me anything before I'm right there in front of him, so unless Brian is at my back and call, which isn't going to happen), there's no good way for me to determine if a stone is a candidate for re-cutting.

I really don't want a round (I'm not trying to offend any of you round lovers out there, my original was a round and I loved it), but I've fallen in love with the pillowy shape of a cushion. If I can get David to come with me, do you think that will ensure that I get a good stone (assuming that there is one in their inventory)?

I completely understand that I'm going to lose carat weight as compared to the stone I have and I'm fine with that (well, that's a tiny fib...I wish that I had more $$$ to get the same/similar carat weight AND an eye clean stone), but I will not sacrafice cut or clarity for size. I certainly don't need IF, but I can't stand being able to see inclusions face up...

daysie, I feel for you and your situation. That totally sucks. All I can tell you is that you have to do whatever you think will make you the happiest in the long run. I'm honestly concerned that when all of this is said and done, and hopefully, I have a ring on my finger that I love, I'm STILL going to look at it and have negative feelings because of the horrible experience I've had.
Click to expand...

As you can see, I stated earlier that I'm prepared to go down in carat size...I'm well aware of what getting a truly eye clean stone will mean, though it certainly seems reasonable that I can get a VS2 that's at least 2.5 carats, G color, excellent cut for $32K.

bgray, the setting was not made for the stone, but the basket was altered to accommodate it, so they are calling it custom work.

I wish that I didn't have to bring my kids with me, as I know that this will be a stressful trip, but I don't have a choice unless I leave my husband home with two young kids (I have no one else I can ask...). Also, I really want him there, as it's his money tied up in all of this and I don't want to make the final decision without him. I don't want to be pressured to get this done in a day or two, so I think being in NY for 5 days will give me the best chance to come away with a good result. I want to be able to look at the stones, get them appraised, think about it carefully, and then rationally make the best decision that I can. I'm doing the best that I can with the circumstances that I have.

I wish that I felt like I could learn to love this stone, but considering that every time I put it on, I'm so upset that I take it off, I don't think that's possible. :((
 
i hate to ask but can you re-state the specs of your stone for me? and tell me what specifically you are displeased with.
 
Yenny,

I pulled the report for your diamond:

http://www2.gia.edu/reportcheck/ind...ortVerification&reportno=17463184&weight=3.32

For replacement I think you have to put this into perspective, some good news and bad news:

The good news

You have a 3.32 Carat diamond, cut shallow, with a modified brilliant pavilion designed to save weight. This is a type of cut that lends itself to smaller flashes. Not at all like 8 main vintage cushion brilliant style. If you post the picture again I can confirm but I'm pretty sure the facet plot is a 4 main cushion modified brilliant (pavilion similar to a radiant).

cushionmodifiedbrilliantlikearadiant.jpg

If you were okay with this cutting style before you will have a lot of acceptable choices now and you aren't going to have the same standards for light performance as others who are posting advice in this thread. Maybe for you matching the outline shape with close to 3ct in weight and a large faceup appearance is most important to you. If so you don't have to pull your hair out trying to fit any stringent cut standards as many stones will be beautiful to your eyes.

The Bad news:

This diamond is HUGE for your budget because its an SI2 and its shallow with a large table, it faces up large for its weight. The weight and color is also quite high for the price paid on the diamond. The cutter got a good yield cutting in this way, so the price per carat will be much less in this style than in others.

In order to go up to SI1 or VS2+ or to switch to a cut with light performance in mind you will have to go lower in color and/or lower in carat weight. This would be the case no matter what vendor you are dealing with even the cheapest internet vendor.

Where to go from here:

Keep this really simple for yourself and for the vendor. You want them to find as many candidates as possible.

My suggested search criteria:

Any facet structure
LW Ratio = 1 - 1.12 (Square to moderately rectangular if you like your current stone (1.08) narrow this done a bit)
Depth = 63 - 70% (avoid too shallow or too deep)
Table % = 62% or less (Avoid larger than this as they will have a flat top crown)
Carat Weight = 2.8Ct+
Symmetry - Good and Up
Polish - Good and up
Girdle = Nothing Extremely Thin or Extremely Thick
Color = G - I (I don't know how you feel about I color but should see at least a round to see if that is okay otherwise choose G-H)

You should be calling Malakov regularly and getting the certificate number and carat weight of any particular potential stones they can find for you. Stick to GIA/AGS report stones which pretty much means GIA stones as AGS will be very uncommon. You have to make it clear the communication has to be done beforehand by them and you aren't going to be surprised when you come to see them in September(if you even need to see them at all).

They should be searching now, as it may take them time to find you some suitable choices. This will be an interative process and you should have the right to give feedback and consider choices well in advance of your trip. If they aren't willing to do the work before you arrive and provide information on at least 2 or 3 suitable choices at least a few weeks in advance I think you have to explore other options as they aren't cooperating.

Since they claim they cut their own stones they should have no problem holding on to potential candidates that pass your criteria and have been examined by your appraisor.

PS
I am a HE :twisted:
 
I like ccl's advice. But, if you do want to try calling Wolf, I used him and am happy. He did a 2 part appraisal for me. Part I when I picked out the stone, then the rest of the ring when it was all put together. He does tend to be a little busy though. He was always able to work timing out with Perry (who sourced my diamond) but if you want him it would be good to try to book in advance. I guess, if I were in your shoes and using an appraiser, I would find it helpful for him to help me see the inclusions and balance the tradeoffs. Having him there with you though is probably going to cost quite a bit.
 
Hugs to you and best of luck on this. I hope you can get it resolved and put behind you!
 
Yenny - feel for you through all this. I think once is all said and done and you get "your" stone, it really becomes a representation of you fighting for yourself and your rights. And in a Leon setting - well, that will completely negate any negative vibes!

CCL has some very good points and advice.

Re: idealscope/asetscope, I would suggest ordering these:

ASET Scope

Ideal Light

I like the light box becauses it goves me an even lit surface. And I can balance my camera on top of the scope and take pics easily. See this link for pics of what I mean.

The ideal scope is best used for rounds, so if you will still be considering rounds, then get the :

Beginner IS

Here's a link on using ASET:

Shop stocks a loupe too, so order one if you don't have.

From my experience of looking at cushions, the ASET helps you to confirm what you see with your own eyes (leakage, etc.) and also when you are looking at multiple stones, looking at them under the ASET helps you to distinguish between them better. But it is not the be all and end all tool, you have to pick out what is PLEASING to you.

Good luck Yenny!
 
CCL, my sincerest apologies for assuming you are female. :o Thank you so much for taking the time to research my stone so carefully and explaining it to me clearly. I know it probably took quite a bit of your time and I really appreciate it.

I honestly don't know what I want at this point. I wish I had a fairy godmother who could go "poof" and rewind to 8 weeks ago, before I made this purchase! I'd be buying the 3.40 ct G color SI1 that Yoni from eternity diamonds offered me for the same price. I find your comment about light performance interesting, as the stone (to my untrained eye) seems pretty brilliant, though I do think you're right about the smaller flashes. Originally, I told them I wanted a chunky style cushion, and they told me that because of the setting I'd selected, they recommended a modern cushion. At the time, it made sense, though now I think they said that because they only had/have modern cushions. I'm fine with a modern cushion, but I would like it with 8 mains and no bowtie (if that's possible). The world of cushions is still rather confusing, so I think that unless David is willing to help me, I'll probably go with a round, just to be safe. :(( I guess you've all convinced me that there's no way for me to get a cushion on my own.

I guess all I can do now is call RM and see what they have and if any of them meet my criteria on paper, see if they'll send them to David (assuming that he's willing).

Anne, thanks for the GTG link...I can't wait to check it out!
 
Yenny, couple of thoughts on the round...

* If you like the shape of a cushion, you can always try and do a square or cushion halo around a RB. See this discussion for some examples towards the middle/end of discussion. It was something I had considered.

* With fancies, you won't get the same light performance as a round, but if you research and find one that performs well enough for you, and is eye clean to your standards, you may consider getting it. Sometimes having the right shape may make up for other things. Think how much more you know now than before! And if an appraiser cannot come with you, perhaps RM can send them 2-3 stones that you are are considering and then you can look at them with the appraiser in his/her office. I would think this is doable if they are in the Diamond District as well.
 
yennyfire said:
CCL, my sincerest apologies for assuming you are female. :o Thank you so much for taking the time to research my stone so carefully and explaining it to me clearly. I know it probably took quite a bit of your time and I really appreciate it.

You are welcome, no problem, its not the first time it has happened and not unusual as the majority of posters here are women.

I honestly don't know what I want at this point. I wish I had a fairy godmother who could go "poof" and rewind to 8 weeks ago, before I made this purchase! I'd be buying the 3.40 ct G color SI1 that Yoni from eternity diamonds offered me for the same price.

I find your comment about light performance interesting, as the stone (to my untrained eye) seems pretty brilliant, though I do think you're right about the smaller flashes.

You see that is the point right there. Why should you be scared off from getting what you really want which is a cushion just because myself or several other cut nuts will say it doesn't perform well as compared to other cushions. Diamonds are by nature sparkly and beautiful and if you value size and shape over light return that noone here should convince you otherwise. Given that you think your current stone is brilliant enough it would be conterproductive to raising your expectations and standards. The goal of your search is not to satsify an expert that your stone is a top performer, its to get a stone that you find most appealing.

Originally, I told them I wanted a chunky style cushion, and they told me that because of the setting I'd selected, they recommended a modern cushion. At the time, it made sense, though now I think they said that because they only had/have modern cushions.

Yes as 90%+ of cushions are modified "modern" style, they probably don't stock many. Didn't you see chunky faceted vintage style ones at ERD?

I'm fine with a modern cushion, but I would like it with 8 mains and no bowtie (if that's possible).

If you want a vintage faceted 8 main cushion I am sure they can be found. However this is very different from a modern 8 main structure which will be much harder to find in your size range. Charmy posted what each type would look like on a GIA report, the thin star pattern is the modern structure.

This video explains 4 main versus 8 main with top performing examples. But all the stones in the video are Cushion Brilliants (not modified).
http://www.vimeo.com/9188543

Especially compare towards the end the 8 main thin(modern) is moved next to the 4 main cushions.

To avoid or minnimize a bowtie stay with more square stones LW<1.1. A bowtie isn't always bad it can be a source of contrast and fire.
The world of cushions is still rather confusing, so I think that unless David is willing to help me, I'll probably go with a round, just to be safe. :(( I guess you've all convinced me that there's no way for me to get a cushion on my own.

I just don't get it, some are telling you to get a round, not because it what you think is most beautiful, but because this makes it easier to know you have a well cut stone.

So what if don't have what we here consider to be a top cut stone. 99%+ of diamonds are not well cut, the rough is so expensive cutters are always balancing weight saving versus optical performance. Yet women look at these stones and are blissfully unaware of what could be better, or simply they are beautiful enough to them. The PS community is tiny, the average buyer has no idea about selection for light performance

I guess all I can do now is call RM and see what they have and if any of them meet my criteria on paper, see if they'll send them to David (assuming that he's willing).

That key is how they are willing to work with you. Cushion or Round they need to communicate with you how their search will be performed well in advance of your visit. We are here to support you but now its in your hands, you have to be assertive and make it clear what you want and make sure the vendor will meet your expectations. Be realistic with your search criteria, if you want a vintage faceted 8 main than tell them that but be prepared to be relaxed on size and color and depth/table.

Also I am not sure what you are going to be doing with the reflectors(you can use your eyes just be sure to see the stones under a table, by the window in natural light etc), if you plan to come to New York only once. For both round and fancy you really only need this package http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_zoom_item.asp?Id=21&ShowAdd=Y especially if you are going to be posting the images in the forum for us to evaluate. ASET gives you the same information as an Idealscope and more as long as someone knows how to interpret it properly.


Anne, thanks for the GTG link...I can't wait to check it out!
Click to expand...
 
CCL, you make some excellent points. I guess when you said that I wasn't looking for light performance, I felt like I was looking for a sub-standard stone. I agree that the PS community is the upper eschelon of the diamond/jewelry market and the standards here are exceptional. I just didn't want to feel like when I came back and posted what I ended up with that I'd made a poor choice.

However, if the only person that I have to please is myself (and hubby), which you're absolutely right about, then it shouldn't matter what anyone else thinks, though I would really like to hear ya'll say that I did a decent job! :oops: A girl has a little pride. ;))

I've put in a call to David and am waiting to hear back from him. Once I know if he's willing/able to work with me, I'll call the vendor and see what they are willing to do.

I did see some vintage cushions at ERD, but they were higher priced than what I saw at Leon's or Eternity Diamonds (which makes sense since there are only so many vintage stones out there), so we passed on them. I'll check out the links you included to see if I can better educate myself before the trip up there.

Again, thank you very much for your continued help. :)

Jgny, thanks for the links to specific scopes, etc. That's is helpful. Also, thank for the idea of taking a round and putting it into a square halo. I really wish I liked the way it looked, but I really love a setting with sidestones, more specifically, bullet, shield or traps, which just don't work well with a round. I'm hoping that David will toss me a lifeline so that I can still get a cushion stone, knowing that his eyes will be my safety net to ensure that I get the best stone possible.

Charmypoo, I apologize for not thanking you earlier for your post...I think I missed it after I left for my daughter's party and then when I returned. The specs you gave will definitely help me articulate to the vendor what I'm looking for...I appreciate it! =)
 
ChunkyCushionLover said:
You see that is the point right there. Why should you be scared off from getting what you really want which is a cushion just because myself or several other cut nuts will say it doesn't perform well as compared to other cushions. Diamonds are by nature sparkly and beautiful and if you value size and shape over light return that noone here should convince you otherwise. Given that you think your current stone is brilliant enough it would be conterproductive to raising your expectations and standards. The goal of your search is not to satsify an expert that your stone is a top performer, its to get a stone that you find most appealing.

[snip]

I just don't get it, some are telling you to get a round, not because it what you think is most beautiful, but because this makes it easier to know you have a well cut stone.

So what if don't have what we here consider to be a top cut stone. 99%+ of diamonds are not well cut, the rough is so expensive cutters are always balancing weight saving versus optical performance. Yet women look at these stones and are blissfully unaware of what could be better, or simply they are beautiful enough to them. The PS community is tiny, the average buyer has no idea about selection for light performance
Click to expand...

I agree completely with all of this. Educate yourself about prices and then make sure they have a selection of stones to meet your criteria and then use your eyes to pick a diamond that appeals to you and makes you happy. That is what matters here. If you think the stone you are getting is beautiful and you have got something you are happy with, then you will have made the best of a bad situation and you will come our loving your ring. This needen't turn into something ridiculously complicated ;))
 
Well said Dreamer (and of course, CCL, since you were the one being quoted)!

I have an appt. with David for 9/24. I'm calling RM tomorrow to see if they'll give me the cert. #s so I can see which stones I want to look at with David on the 24th. Hopefully, it will be an easy decision. I sent Leon a quote request, which he answered very quickly (and kindly). So, it seems like he's willing to work with me. I actually got tears in my eyes when I saw his response, as I was concerned that he wouldn't want to work with me since I hadn't placed an order when I met him in NY a couple of months ago.

So, when all of this is done, I will have an heirloom to pass onto my kids. I mentioned to Leon that I'd like a band to go with the setting, so I may have one masterpiece for each child (many, many years from now). I am finally seeing a rainbow at the end of this horrible storm...I know the hard part has yet to come, but at least I feel like I have a fighting chance with David in my corner and Leon to work his magic with the end result of this battle. :)
 
Good Luck! My thoughts will be with you!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
GET 3 FREE HCA RESULTS JOIN THE FORUM. ASK FOR HELP
Jewelry Blog
PriceScope-Concierge-Ad
Find prime cuts.
Top