Any recommended recutters?

[JewelledEscalators]

Hi,

I am thinking of getting a spinel recut as it has a window and I think the colour would likely look better without it (I could be wrong).

Seems that reading through past posts, people have mentioned Dan Stair (but he no longer recuts?), Jerry Newman (retired?), and Conny Forsberg in Sweden (can't find much info on him).

Can anyone recommend anybody who can take on recuts? If based in the UK, even better. It seems many lapdiaries or precision cut places don't always take on recuts

I'm not always a fan of radical or fancy cuts and prefer to keep a classic look. Currently the stone is an antique cushion with a step cut pavillion. I'm not a gem cutter so whether my stone is a suitable candidate for a recut I don't know, but I guess I would need to start by asking somebody who carries out this kind of work for an assesment.

Any help appreciated!

 

[Autumn in New England]

Hi @JewelledEscalators! I use Denton Anderson or Boyd Fox. They're both out of Colorado. Not sure if that's too much of a hassle being based in the UK. Denton has a very scientific and precise approach to his cutting. He measures every facet angle, etc. Boyd is a very talented (and award winning) lapidary, but he's more of a "fly by the seat of his pants" type cutter - a rebel, if you will. lol Both are quite capable, but have very different cutting styles! Good luck!!

 

[JewelledEscalators]

Hi @JewelledEscalators! I use Denton Anderson or Boyd Fox. They're both out of Colorado. Not sure if that's too much of a hassle being based in the UK. Denton has a very scientific and precise approach to his cutting. He measures every facet angle, etc. Boyd is a very talented (and award winning) lapidary, but he's more of a "fly by the seat of his pants" type cutter - a rebel, if you will. lol Both are quite capable, but have very different cutting styles! Good luck!!

Thanks that's really helpful! Funny enough, I had my eye on one of Boyd Fox's red spinels (did he used to have a website called red carpet something?) though it's now too expensive for me - it had a chip on the girdle and I was thinking of asking him if it could be recut but thought better of it as if it could, I'm sure he would!

 

[Autumn in New England]

Thanks that's really helpful! Funny enough, I had my eye on one of Boyd Fox's red spinels (did he used to have a website called red carpet something?) though it's now too expensive for me - it had a chip on the girdle and I was thinking of asking him if it could be recut but thought better of it as if it could, I'm sure he would!

Hmm I'm not sure... I know he has a site called Fox Hop Jewelry. He's quite a character, Jewelled! Kind of a rock star amongst lapidaries. Last year, he recut a large, terribly windowed rubellite for me. It has stunning coloration and great clarity though, so I was really excited to get it over to him. I'm telling you, the brilliance is blinding now! And he works his hardest to save as much weight and size as possible. We're sort of newly acquainted, but Denton I've know for years. Total sweetheart.

 

[Avondale]

I remembered this thread from about a month ago: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/padparadscha-recut.272261/

It mentions two names - John Dyer and Chris Wolfsberg.

 

[JewelledEscalators]

Hi @JewelledEscalators! I use Denton Anderson or Boyd Fox. They're both out of Colorado. Not sure if that's too much of a hassle being based in the UK. Denton has a very scientific and precise approach to his cutting. He measures every facet angle, etc. Boyd is a very talented (and award winning) lapidary, but he's more of a "fly by the seat of his pants" type cutter - a rebel, if you will. lol Both are quite capable, but have very different cutting styles! Good luck!!

What are the differences between their cutting styles?

 

[Autumn in New England]

What are the differences between their cutting styles?

Just that one is very "by the book" as far as facet angles and placement are concerned (Denton), and the other is much more intuitive about the whole process (Boyd). Boyd also seems to be more concerned with saving weight and size, and will "make it work"; whereas, Denton will tell you straight out that he can't completely close a window while using proper formulations and keeping it at a certain size or weight. I hope that makes sense!

 

[Autumn in New England]

I remembered this thread from about a month ago: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/padparadscha-recut.272261/

It mentions two names - John Dyer and Chris Wolfsberg.

Two very capable lapidaries as well!

 

[Soseattle]

Hmm I'm not sure... I know he has a site called Fox Hop Jewelry. He's quite a character, Jewelled! Kind of a rock star amongst lapidaries. Last year, he recut a large, terribly windowed rubellite for me. It has stunning coloration and great clarity though, so I was really excited to get it over to him. I'm telling you, the brilliance is blinding now! And he works his hardest to save as much weight and size as possible. We're sort of newly acquainted, but Denton I've know for years. Total sweetheart.

Regarding Mr. Denton, I talked to him about some lapidary projects and an inlay repair within the last couple of weeks. Granted, we have never worked together before, but frankly, the conversation was quite disappointing. Apparently he no longer has an assistant and is completely overwhelmed. He could not do the inlay repair and told me that I could send pictures and "he would see if he is interested in doing the work." I personally like to work with people who are as enthusiastic about a project as I am. He was not even the least bit friendly, so I decided to find someone else. I'm not saying he isn't an excellent lapidary. I'm sure he is. However, his current situation sounds like it is affecting his customer service.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Regarding Mr. Denton, I talked to him about some lapidary projects and an inlay repair within the last couple of weeks. Granted, we have never worked together before, but frankly, the conversation was quite disappointing. Apparently he no longer has an assistant and is completely overwhelmed. He could not do the inlay repair and told me that I could send pictures and "he would see if he is interested in doing the work." I personally like to work with people who are as enthusiastic about a project as I am. He was not even the least bit friendly, so I decided to find someone else. I'm not saying he isn't an excellent lapidary. I'm sure he is. However, his current situation sounds like it is affecting his customer service.

Oh that is unfortunate, and I'm sorry to hear it. I've been friendly with Denton for maybe 14 years, and I've never known him to be curt or dismissive. He has always been very eager, professional, and accommodating. I will say that he had some serious health issues late last year, and wasn't cutting at all. I think it created quite a backlog for him. I'm not making excuses for your poor experience. It just may help explain things.

He fixed this pendant for me recently (it is turquoise, orange spiny oyster shell, variscite, golden MOP, and sugilite). A piece of sugilite (the purple material) fell out, and he cut from his own stock to repair it. His work was indistinguishable from the original. Not many lapidaries work with inlay anymore, so perhaps it's worth it to send him some photos to see if he can repair your piece? But I understand if you're not comfortable or inclined to do so after your disappointing conversation with him. It's too bad, because he really is very good!

 

[JewelledEscalators]

Not sure why this is, but I've generally noticed that a lot of lapidiaries and precision cut places seem to be in the US, and not so much the US. Is this just a perception or is it in fact true, I wonder?

 

[Gloria27]

Hi,

I am thinking of getting a spinel recut as it has a window and I think the colour would likely look better without it (I could be wrong).

Seems that reading through past posts, people have mentioned Dan Stair (but he no longer recuts?), Jerry Newman (retired?), and Conny Forsberg in Sweden (can't find much info on him).

Can anyone recommend anybody who can take on recuts? If based in the UK, even better. It seems many lapdiaries or precision cut places don't always take on recuts

I'm not always a fan of radical or fancy cuts and prefer to keep a classic look. Currently the stone is an antique cushion with a step cut pavillion. I'm not a gem cutter so whether my stone is a suitable candidate for a recut I don't know, but I guess I would need to start by asking somebody who carries out this kind of work for an assesment.

Any help appreciated!

I've found 3 precision cutters in the UK so far, one seems inactive but you can try. This(Avery Gems) is the only shop I've found to do concave cuts so I've saved the info anyway.
Avery Gems - inactive: https://www.etsy.com/uk/shop/AverygemsUK
PrecisionCutGems - https://www.etsy.com/uk/shop/PrecisionCutGems?ref=simple-shop-header-name&listing_id=957630044
Jeff Davies and Son https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/Jeff-Dav...55-0&campid=5336728181&customid=&toolid=10001

JeffDaviesandSonGems - Etsy UK

Shop Precision & Custom Cut, High Quality Gems Specialist. by JeffDaviesandSonGems located in Wales, England. Smooth dispatch! Has a history of dispatching on time with tracking. Speedy replies! Has a history of replying to messages quickly. Rave reviews! Average review rating is 4.8 or higher

www.etsy.com

And there is Raj from ClearwaterGemsUK. He also cuts stones pretty well but not all the stones in his shop are precision cut for some reason:

clearwatergemsuk - Etsy Australia

Shop clearwatergemsuk by clearwatergemsuk located in London, United Kingdom. Smooth dispatch! Has a history of dispatching on time with tracking. Speedy replies! Has a history of replying to messages quickly. Rave reviews! Average review rating is 4.8 or higher

www.etsy.com

 

[JewelledEscalators]

I've found 3 precision cutters in the UK so far, one seems inactive but you can try. This(Avery Gems) is the only shop I've found to do concave cuts so I've saved the info anyway.
Avery Gems - inactive: https://www.etsy.com/uk/shop/AverygemsUK
PrecisionCutGems - https://www.etsy.com/uk/shop/PrecisionCutGems?ref=simple-shop-header-name&listing_id=957630044
Jeff Davies and Son https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/Jeff-Dav...55-0&campid=5336728181&customid=&toolid=10001

JeffDaviesandSonGems - Etsy UK

Shop Precision & Custom Cut, High Quality Gems Specialist. by JeffDaviesandSonGems located in Wales, England. Smooth dispatch! Has a history of dispatching on time with tracking. Speedy replies! Has a history of replying to messages quickly. Rave reviews! Average review rating is 4.8 or higher

www.etsy.com

And there is Raj from ClearwaterGemsUK. He also cuts stones pretty well but not all the stones in his shop are precision cut for some reason:

clearwatergemsuk - Etsy Australia

Shop clearwatergemsuk by clearwatergemsuk located in London, United Kingdom. Smooth dispatch! Has a history of dispatching on time with tracking. Speedy replies! Has a history of replying to messages quickly. Rave reviews! Average review rating is 4.8 or higher

www.etsy.com

Hi Gloria, thanks, I did come across PrecisionCutGems but didn't see their Etsy store, and didn't realise Jeff Davies and Son was in the UK. I thought they were in the US. Avery Gems are in London it seems so that's good.

 

[JewelledEscalators]

Out of interest, what kind of cost does stone recutting involve? I am thinking not too high no?

 

[Gloria27]

Out of interest, what kind of cost does stone recutting involve? I am thinking not too high no?

I assume around 100, max150GBP .

I tend to look at inexpensive materials and try to calculate the cost of the labour apart from that. For something like Amethyst I assume the cost of labour is bigger than the cost of materials. So for a stone that's 200-250GBP you can assume the labour will be 100-150GBP - for a full cut not recut.


Better ask the cutters what their fees are, I have no up to date info regarding that.

 

[JewelledEscalators]

I assume around 100, max150GBP .

I tend to look at inexpensive materials and try to calculate the cost of the labour apart from that. For something like Amethyst I assume the cost of labour is bigger than the cost of materials. So for a stone that's 200-250GBP you can assume the labour will be 100-150GBP - for a full cut not recut.


Better ask the cutters what their fees are, I have no up to date info regarding that.

Ok that's what I thought. I was just trying to figure out whether sending overseas made sense costwise with shipping if I couldn't find somebody who could/woulld take it on in the UK. On the other hand, I am tempted by what @Autumn in New England was saying about Fox Hop Jewelry as I liked some of what I'd seen earlier on one of their old sites.

 

[Cinders]

I don't know about recutting but Jeff Davies has very reasonable pricing for his advertised stones.

 

[Soseattle]

He fixed this pendant for me recently (it is turquoise, orange spiny oyster shell, variscite, golden MOP, and sugilite). A piece of sugilite (the purple material) fell out, and he cut from his own stock to repair it. His work was indistinguishable from the original. Not many lapidaries work with inlay anymore, so perhaps it's worth it to send him some photos to see if he can repair your piece? But I understand if you're not comfortable or inclined to do so after your disappointing conversation with him. It's too bad, because he really is very good!

The pendant is lovely. The problem with my inlay repair is that it is a small horse head pin (done by Nora Leekity) that the eye fell out. It was purchased that way. He said he didn't have the small tools required for the project. There are a few Native American silversmiths around that do repairs, so may try going that route. I also have a pair of Zuni inlay earrings that I really like, but are too heavy to wear comfortably so would like them re-worked into something else.

I understand life situations affect what a person can do and that is understandable. I have no hard feelings. I just didn't feel a positive connection, so felt it it better to continue the search.

 

[Autumn in New England]

I understand life situations affect what a person can do and that is understandable. I have no hard feelings. I just didn't feel a positive connection, so felt it it better to continue the search.

I totally understand your feelings and agree with you. I was thinking purely in terms of lapidaries, but that is an excellent idea (to locate a Native American silversmith who specializes in inlay). They really do the most fabulous work! Good luck!!

 

[chrono]

Out of interest, what kind of cost does stone recutting involve? I am thinking not too high no?

It has been a while since I had work done but I recall it depends on how many facets will be involved, which translates to hours needed. Then it will be cost per hour. Some have pretty cheap hourly rates so i've only paid $100 to $200 for minor tweaking but some top precision lapidary charge more per hour.

 

[JewelledEscalators]

It has been a while since I had work done but I recall it depends on how many facets will be involved, which translates to hours needed. Then it will be cost per hour. Some have pretty cheap hourly rates so i've only paid $100 to $200 for minor tweaking but some top precision lapidary charge more per hour.

Thanks. At this point, the issue is mainly the shipping and the VAT and all the headaches that come with sending it overseas. I actually don't mind paying a certain amount for a good recut, where the result is good, even for a small tweak.

 

[PrecisionGem]

Recutting a portion of the stone can often take longer than cutting a complete stone from rough, as you and fishing around for an angle and index. Years ago when I used to call on jewelers to sell them my stones, they would pull out a stone with a big window, or one they chipped and had me fix them. I would spend more time on this than cutting a complete stone. Now when I buy a sapphire from Sri Lanka to recut (rough from Sri Lanka is not allowed out of the country) I but a stone I intend to do a complete recut.

 

[JewelledEscalators]

Recutting a portion of the stone can often take longer than cutting a complete stone from rough, as you and fishing around for an angle and index. Years ago when I used to call on jewelers to sell them my stones, they would pull out a stone with a big window, or one they chipped and had me fix them. I would spend more time on this than cutting a complete stone. Now when I buy a sapphire from Sri Lanka to recut (rough from Sri Lanka is not allowed out of the country) I but a stone I intend to do a complete recut.

Thanks for that explanation. I don't know what my stone needs, but I've said to someone who might be able to take it on (I've sent photos as it has inclusions) that I'm happy to pay them the price of a complete recut even if it only needs minor adjustments, as I'm likely to ask lots of questions being new to all this.

 

[JewelledEscalators]

An update to this thread. I eventually got my red spinel recut by Boyd Fox as recommended by @Autumn in New England and the result is fantastic!!

Before:

• 2.78 carats
• Quite noticeable window
• Light return not so good, not very shiny stone
• Colour uneven, darker around the edges, watered down in the middle
• I wish the colour looked as strong as it does when viewing from the side at the girdle
• Colour of the stone was good but not my personal favourite (matter of taste) being hot pink in most lights, and more to my taste in some lighting conditions which was a minority of the time.
• Quite a lot of inclusions - I don't necessarily mind inclusions but the greyish and black ones were a drawback, particularly in some lights where they do detract from the overall look of the stone.

After a full recut:

• 2.69 carats
• Face up size is pretty much the same as before
• Window gone/nowhere near as noticeable
• Improved light return, looks shinier/sparklier
• Inclusions reduced, and those that remain particularly the dark ones somehow positioned in ways that make them not very noticeable/bothersome due to the way the light hits it? Gives the impression of being a much cleaner stone that it is.
• MASSIVE improvement in colour. What was the best colour of the stone from certain angles/lighting conditions is now what it looks like from every angle and all of the time. Tone is now much deeper giving it a richer colour, and has gone from a saturated hot pink to a saturated reddish pink/pinkish red with flashes of magenta that the recut has brought out more. I guess colour is a personal preference but I didn't expect it to turn into one that I like so much more so that's a huge bonus for me.

All in all, very happy I went for it and definitely didn't expect such a big improvement for such small weight loss, nor for it to be possible for colour to be amplified to this extent irrespective of the size of the weight loss, particularly given it's a shallow stone relative to its face up size.

Before the recut, I was considering selling either this spinel ring or another, but after the recut I'm definitely not selling it (at least for the foreseeable future)!

Thanks to everyone for their recommendations - this was my first recut so your input was very helpful!

I know people are going to ask for photos, but it's quite difficult to really capture how different it now looks, though I might try.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Did it seriously only lose 9 pts. with all that improvement?! Boyd is a magician!! He's recutting a stone for me as we speak. Oh I'm so glad it worked out well. Congrats!!

 

[JewelledEscalators]

Did it seriously only lose 9 pts. with all that improvement?!

Yep.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Yep.

He moved to Texas from Colorado, which I only recently found out. I know you're in the UK... how were your shipping costs/duties?

 

[Ionysis]

I was going to ask the same thing.

My stone is quite valuable and I’m struggling with shipping and insurance etc.

 

[JewelledEscalators]

He moved to Texas from Colorado, which I only recently found out. I know you're in the UK... how were your shipping costs/duties?

It's what I expected it to be. For duties I paid about 25% on the fee for the work and the FedEx shipping charges rather than the value of the whole ring as I'm not buying the ring, and sent it as repairs/processing . The FedEx shipping wasn't cheap, particularly given that it doesn't cover more than 1k in losses and the nightmare communication issues with FedEx and delays. After this, I'm not sure I'll ever use FedEx again, I probably would go with a different carrier. The thing with FedEx to be aware of is that even if you pay extra for what appears to be extra insurance above items with values over 1k, they are not liable to pay out more than 1k, so you might as well go for the 1k option (but declare the value to customs for the full value, which is a separate thing).

All in all, it's not cheap with shipping and duties on top, and the recut fee is possibly higher than some other places but I don't mind paying that for a good outcome given the value of the item (a few grand), which I got. I would expect a recut normally to incurr a much higher weight loss, and though originally Boyd thought it might go down to 2-2.2 carats, even that is lower than recuts others might do. Given that weight loss makes a big difference to value as well as the quality of the cut and overall appearance of the stone, for items above a certain value, overall it pays off.

Also, I sent the ring whole so it was unset then reset and also I requested a resizing of several sizes up, both of which came with a separate charge, but that total is less than what I've been quoted in the UK, even with the duties on top.

 

[JewelledEscalators]

I was going to ask the same thing.

My stone is quite valuable and I’m struggling with shipping and insurance etc.

Yes the insurance part is tricky. I'm not aware that you can insure items to mean losses are covered by the carrier to the full extent above 1k, unless you purchase insurance separately from an insurance company. For businesses I think there is a carrier option, but not for individual customers.