Anyone been SemiSTALKED?

[Gemklctr]

Lots of good advice here, but one point of emphasis and one of caution (as always, the following is not legal advice and you should confer with your own attorney):

First, definitely contact the phone company. It is a violation of the Communications Act, 47 USC 223(a), to repeatedly call a phone number without identifying yourself or just to let it ring for the purpose of harassment.

Second, do NOT record a call until you have checked the law in your state. It is against the law in many states to record a conversation without the consent of both parties, although other states allow one party consent.

Good luck.

 

[littlelysser]

Hey there.

I just now read this topic.

Here are my thoughts...and I haven''t done much domestic relations/protection from abuse stuff...so take my thoughts with a grain of sand.

This guy is clearly a jerk and he''s definitely got problems...and what he''s doing might be actionable. Or I guess I should say that you might not succeed in an action against him...but you could do something!

I know in PA, it is relatively easy to get a protection from abuse order (which is basically a restraining order), particularly a temporary one. And stalking is definitely included in the prohibited behaviors... The purpose of the PFA is to stop abuse before it happens - and when you''ve got someone stalking...things can escalate. That having been said, and not knowing your history with this guy, the contact between you guys might not be enough to get a permanant PFA. But my guess would be that HE doesn''t know that...and it might be enough to scare him so he''d leave you alone.

So in my opinion, a restraining order/pfa might not be a bad idea. He''d be forbidden to call or email, and if he did, it would be actionable...It might be in your best interest to talk to a lawyer in NY. See what the local laws are regarding stalking and that sort of thing. Can''t hurt to know what your options are...

 

[hlmr]

Sorry to hear about this Deco. I think you are doing the right thing by ignoring all contact.

My sister, who is a police detective was stalked for many years. She even moved to the other side of the country and changed all email/phone info and he still found her. She received lots of advice from her coworkers and it boils down to basically what your therapist told you....ignore everything, unless he comes into physical contact with you. Any response at all will just fuel his sickness and lead him to step up his harrassment.

I would definitely document the emails and phone calls in case it escalates down the line. The sad reality is that he will probably continue stalking you, until he finds someone else to take your place.

Hope this helps.

Heather

 

[squarediamondlove]

Deco, I am so sorry that you have to go through this!

I too have had random calls and hang ups when I was younger, but I actually did NOT know who they were from.

You have to check on the laws of your state, but if I had to guess, I'm really not sure about whether you can get a permanent restraining order. He is not a family member, he also did not do anything physical to you, but only mental distress and given that it is only phone hang ups I'm not sure how strong the proof of mental abuse/harassment is. Also in PrincessV's case another reason she may have been able to get a restraining order b/c he previously abused her. Here you may not be in any imminent danger. It may be that you can get a temporary restraining order (since juges are very lenient in giving those b/c they don't want to be responsible for anything happening to you), but that is only transient and after a hearing they will likely remove it without any more evidence. But again, I really don't have any knowlege in this area (only family law) or the state in which you live, I'm just making an educated guess.

If you do want to take legal action, look in the yellow pages for free consultation. You will likely not need a lawyer to get a temproray restraining order but an attorney does increase your chance in getting one.

 

[strmrdr]

some of this has been said:

Contact the cops and start a paper trail.
Get the protection order.. it does nothing but cya should you have to use any of the things below.

Does your state have ccw? if so get one and take the classes and carry.
and/or
always carry 10% pepper spray on your key chain and another in your car and another in your purse.

Check you locks and make sure they are good dead bolts.
Make sure the windows have working locks and not the elcheapo standard ones.
glazing on the windows isnt a bad idea.
light the outside of your house with decorative lighting.
A camera system at the doors is only a few hundred bucks tops and is really nice to have. ones on all sides of the house isn''t that much more and even better.
position flashlights thru out the house.
2x 12GA shotgun loaded with #4 buckshot and learn how to use them.
At the very least a large bear pepper spray canister x2.

In other words take the basic precautions but don''t let it run your life.

Emails: print them and save them including header information.
phone calls - document them. time and date. the cops can get the info on who called for up to 90 days if they really wanted too.

Have someone big talk to him and tell him to knock it off.

Get a picture of him and show it to people around you and have them be on the lookout for him incase he shows up.

That worked for a friend of mine who had an ex-boyfriend that was always parking in front of her house and watching her.
She took his picture around to all the neighbors and every time he came into the neighborhood someone called the cops who chased him off but didn''t arrest him like the should have.
Eventually he took a swing at one of the neighbors who had told him to leave and got his head bashed thru the side window of his car.
She never saw nor heard from him again.
The pain of getting the crude beat out of him was greater than the pleasure he got bugging her so he quit.

 

[leeenie]

I can definitely sympathize. There was a guy in my high school class who I stopped being friends with sophomore year precisely because he began displaying stalker-like qualities (following me around everywhere at school, getting jealous when I talked to other people). Although I stopped talking to him completely (even moved desks in a small class to stay away from him), he continued to IM me (changed my screenname because of him), call me at my parents’ house during college breaks and even in the beginning of grad school until I told him not to call anymore and made it clear I didn’t consider us to be friends. During college he also would talk on the phone with my roommate who went to the same HS and constantly talk about me to her even though she told him she wasn’t interested and I had stopped talking to him at that point. I’m currently living across the country but a few weeks ago he emailed me to say he was coming to visit and asked to meet for coffee (I ignored his email). The creepiest thing is that my email is completely unlisted and not available on the internet anywhere, so I don’t know how he got it (one possibility is that he created a false Facebook account and found it there). Unlike Deco’s stalker, he looks like a creepy serial killer with loner/clinger/obsessive tendencies and I wish I had never been friends with him, but I didn’t have that detection ability/foresight in high school.

I did a brief Google search on restraining orders and it looked like you can only get temporary ones that you have to go to a hearing to get extended, but it probably depends on the state. I’m not sure how much effect that would have if not permanent because these creeps never give up no matter how many times they try and you ignore them. Especially if info and images about you are available in public. I’m afraid of this too because I will be moving back to my hometown and will have info about me on the internet including a picture and contact info, and as you said, housing records are public. I think unfortunately people like this just won’t give up - even if it''s clear you don''t want to be friends or anything else - so the threat of them finding you in the future never goes away, you just have to be vigilant - pepper spray, not going out to isolated places alone at night, changing contact info or using the screening methods people posted above, etc. It sucks that you have to deal with this for the rest of your life, basically. I thought about confronting my stalker and telling him to leave me alone and never try to contact me, but I think it would only fuel his interest so I just ignore. The only way to not deal with this is to prevent it in the first place...parents, please warn your kids, especially girls, about not getting too close with “suspicious” people (I think they tend to be clingy) even as friends (even though they might not listen).

face for all the psycho stalkers.

 

[MissAva]

Deco,
I had to think very carefully about posting this, as it still disturbs me to think about it. You can call your cell phone company and change your number, they will do it for free so he does not know your number. You can also have his email address blocked. If you can you might consider have a call intercept, you could put his numbers in there and then you would not even hear the phone ring. Once you have done these things it is much easier to get a restraining order, since the police will see that you have made a good faith effort to stop things on your own. I know how bothersome and upsetting this can be, I am so sorry you are having to deal with it.

 

[Mara]

It''s really sad and upsetting that people are out there who feel they have the right to violate your space, privacy, peace of mind by forcing themselves and their own warped sense of entitlement onto you. I remember during the whole notes on the car incident I was waffling between being freaked out and just being smart and taking it as it came. But that never morphed into anything so I was really lucky, I have no idea what I would have done if it did.

Anyway, Deco, you should also be that mix of smart and freaked out...I don''t think you should get too paranoid about all the stuff that ''could'' happen, but be smart about it. I know that you said that your biz is all mixed up with who you are, but really think about it....you said you are on the TV etc. Pull those ads? Can you take a break from your biz for a while? I mean really what''s more important right now? That''s what it comes down to for me. You COULD do something about this more than what you are doing now, you could disappear more effectively, but you are choosing not to in a way. Just don''t let it bite you in the ass.

What does your fiance say about all this???

 

[decodelighted]

WOW ... that''s a lot of awesome advice & helpful support. THANKS GUYS!!!! I left a message for my sister and am going to talk to her this afternoon. Will post more then.

For the "note" recepients (Kalidescope, Mara?) ... it reminded me of a similar incident in high school when I was working at an ice cream shop ... someone would leave notes for me when I opened the store in the mornings. Only a few times I think -- just "you''re cute" stuff, nothing sinister. I remember always having to wonder if it was someone I was serving? Looking people up & down, "Are you him?" Closing was one person (totally unsafe) so my Dad would drive down at closing time & sit outside the store the whole time I was in there alone. (Which I thought was CRAZY at the time). Two years later a girl was raped in the backroom of that tiny store a mile from my home. At closing. AIIGH. Suddenly Dad seemed awfully smart & very caring! Nothing to do with this situation ... but I''d totally forgotten about it ''til you guys mentioned the notes!!

If I ever had a daughter she would be on lock down til thirty!!! And I met weirdo about thirty ... maybe thirty three!!!

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 4/19/2006 8:21:49 AM
Author: fountainfairfax
most email systems allow you to block specific email addresses, not just send them to junk mail (if you feel you must receive them as documentation, have them forwarded to a third party before opening and let him/her record them and check content.)

NEVER thought of that. That''s BRILLIANT. I emailed my fiance about helping me set something like that up & have ''em sent to HIM. Also will give in & have him record the answering machine messages even on my BIZ # ... I hadn''t ever considered the hang up calls might be to hear the answering machine message. DUH!!

Ask her about cease and desist in regards to nuissance. I know someone who had a very simple letter drafted stating that ''may it be known to Mr Johnny X that Mr & Mrs James Z are insistent that any all contact be ceased immediately. Failure to do so will result in legal action. Anything in regard to this matter must be conducted through the ABC law firm and a copy of this notice has been filed with local authorities.'' They never heard from Mr X again.

call in to her right now. wonder if her firm can do it, or whether I need a NY state attorney. will find out.

Thanks FF!

 

[portoar]

Yes. Been stalked. Not fun. Guy called and called and called. Incessantly for hours on end. If I didn''t pick up, he would just hang up and re dial. One day it went for six hours straight. Would come over to my house and hang out outside. How did it end? We belonged to the same rowing club. We were at an event, I became ill, and someone suggested that XX take me across the lake to get to my car. I declined, although I was obviously too ill to get back on my own. Got funny looks. Another time went to a regatta and refused to approach the car of a club member because the other guy was in it. Got more funny looks. I didn''t have to tell people, I think they figured it out and I think someone talked to him. Oh, and there was that part about where I told him if he didn''t stop I would call the police AND his wife.

Had a friend in college who broke up w/her boyfriend, and he began stalking her. He would come to our house and beg to see her. Well since I owned the house I was able to tell him to stay off my property. One day she narrowly avoided being cornered and raped by him. She came home crying, I got it out of her, gave her a stiff drink and called the cops. They went and talked to him and the stalking stopped.

Am very sorry you''re going through this. Call the cops, call an abuse hotline, and get help. It''s not funny.

 

[tawn]

She took his picture around to all the neighbors and every time he came into the neighborhood someone called the cops who chased him off but didn''t arrest him like the should have.
Eventually he took a swing at one of the neighbors who had told him to leave and got his head bashed thru the side window of his car.
She never saw nor heard from him again.
The pain of getting the crude beat out of him was greater than the pleasure he got bugging her so he quit.

My husband thinks exactly the same way you do! But, as much as I hate to say it, it''s true that sometimes the only way to get the message through to "some people" is to kick the sh*t out of them!

 

[squarediamondlove]

Date: 4/19/2006 2:16:24 PM
Author: decodelighted

For the 'note' recepients (Kalidescope, Mara?) ... it reminded me of a similar incident in high school when I was working at an ice cream shop ... someone would leave notes for me when I opened the store in the mornings. Only a few times I think -- just 'you're cute' stuff, nothing sinister. I remember always having to wonder if it was someone I was serving? Looking people up & down, 'Are you him?' Closing was one person (totally unsafe) so my Dad would drive down at closing time & sit outside the store the whole time I was in there alone. (Which I thought was CRAZY at the time). Two years later a girl was raped in the backroom of that tiny store a mile from my home. At closing. AIIGH. Suddenly Dad seemed awfully smart & very caring! Nothing to do with this situation ... but I'd totally forgotten about it 'til you guys mentioned the notes!!

That's interesting, I too had a quasi-stock incident when I worked in and ice cream store in high school. I had one guy send me love letters and then he came in with two dozen rozes. Then I had a guy approach me at a dinner near where I worked and said that he had come in to see me at the ice cream store and the jewelry store that I later worked at. I had no idea who he was. After taking a leave form working in the jewelry store b/c they were doing reconstruction, the owner of the jewelry store and a freind who was still working at the ice cream shop both said that for the next 3 month he woud come in each week to both locations and ask for me to see if I started working there again. Crazy I know, lucky for me he did not know my phone number.

 

[pearcrazy]

I was stalked in high school by a guy that I hardly knew. I had my own phone in my room and he used to call me at 3am with obscene phone calls. I found out that he''d also been peeping in my bedroom window and had jimmied the lock on my car and left a note on my dashboard and a condom in my front seat telling me to save it for him. I was terrified. I could never prove it was him but my father showed up at the store where he worked and threatened to kill him.

He never bothered me again. I love my dad!!

 

[Mara]

Date: 4/19/2006 5:52:23 PM
Author: pearcrazy
I was stalked in high school by a guy that I hardly knew. I had my own phone in my room and he used to call me at 3am with obscene phone calls. I found out that he''d also been peeping in my bedroom window and had jimmied the lock on my car and left a note on my dashboard and a condom in my front seat telling me to save it for him. I was terrified. I could never prove it was him but my father showed up at the store where he worked and threatened to kill him.

He never bothered me again. I love my dad!!

EW Pearcrazy, that bit about the condom was seriously nasty! You must have been so scared!! People are SO SICK!

 

[FireGoddess]

Date: 4/19/2006 5:52:23 PM
Author: pearcrazy
I was stalked in high school by a guy that I hardly knew. I had my own phone in my room and he used to call me at 3am with obscene phone calls. I found out that he''d also been peeping in my bedroom window and had jimmied the lock on my car and left a note on my dashboard and a condom in my front seat telling me to save it for him. I was terrified. I could never prove it was him but my father showed up at the store where he worked and threatened to kill him.

He never bothered me again. I love my dad!!

People are freaks!!

 

[hlmr]

It really depends on how sick the stalker is. My husband and I would gladly have broken the legs of my sisters stalker but he was really crazy and that would have been more incentive for him. He ended up in a mental institution so he was an extreme case to say the least.

I think the threat of physical violence would be enough to deter some of these sickos, but unfortunately, not all.

 

[pebbles]

Totally late chiming in. Deco, you have received a lot of great advice. Definitely talk to your sister. Get whatever restraining order you can get, even if it is only temporary. If this guy is in the public eye, as you say, then he probably doesn''t want any issue with the police, or have anything against him that would hurt him career-wise.

I was in a semi-stalking situation myself about 10 years ago (before I met my husband). Except in this case, it was a female stalking me! One of my co-workers set me up on a blind date with this guy, her son''s best friend. We went out and had a nice time, but there was no "love connection" if you know what I mean. Anyway, after we went out to dinner we went back to his house and played pool for a while. As I was walking to my car which was parked right in front of his house, I noticed someone sitting in the car across the street. Didn''t think much of it. As I drove away this car started following me. I was more annoyed than scared (and looking back, I probably should have been more scared). I was able to lose the car a short while later. The following Monday my co-worker was all excited and asked how the date went. I told her just OK, and then I mentioned the weird car. Her face turned white. She asked if it was a woman driving. I said I couldn''t tell. She told my that this guy''s ex-girlfriend stalks every gal that he goes out with, and she JUST found this out from her son, otherwise she never would have set me up with him! Great...

I saw the guy the following weekend at my co-worker''s son''s wedding. (I hadn''t talked to the guy all week). I mentioned the car following me and he laughed and said it was "just" his ex. I made it very clear that I would not be in a relationship with anyone that had a psycho ex and that if he wanted to go out with me again, then he had to tell his gal to stop.

Well aparently he didn''t. He called me and I wasn''t home so I called him back. I got his answering machine and apparently she was over there at the time. Well, she got my phone number. All of a sudden I kept getting all these hang ups at weird hours of the night.

Then I got this weird phone call at work one day. It was from some gal that worked in our IT department. She asked if I had gone out with "Ken" the previous weekend. It turns out this gal in IT was the psycho ex''s best friend. The ex told her my name and the gal figured out it was me from my last name (my maiden name was not a common name at all). So then I not only had the ex calling me, but now her friend was too! Fortunately, b/c this happened at work (I worked at a hospital) I let our security department know. They paid the friend a little visit. I think she was threatened with losing her job b/c the calls from her stopped immediately. I never did go out with Ken again, but the calls from the ex continued for months. It also always came up as "private call" on the caller ID so I just told everyone in my family to not answer it, or if they didn''t know the number to let it go to the answering machine. I did go to the police but they said they couldn''t do anything based on just hang ups.

This psycho gal used to show up at my work too. I never saw her face but she knew what time I got off of work and used to follow me. For months I never went straight home -- I used to go to an aunt''s house, or my grandparents or to a friend''s house. Once she started showing up at my work, I got security involved. Security used to escort me to my car and I never knew what kind of car the girl had as she used several! After a while I was able to determine her pattern of cars that she used. One day Security called the local police for me and had them there when I got off of work. I spotted her car in the lot and she was in it. The police went over to her and basically told her to knock it off or they would arrest her for trespassing on hospital property. She never bothered me again after that. And I never let anyone set me up on a blind date after that as well!

Sorry to be so long, but I just wanted you to know that you are not alone out there. In my case, I am very fortunate that she didn''t do anything threatening or physcical to me. It is really scary that people think they have the right to violate your privacy like that.

I really hope you can put an end to this guy.

 

[moon river]

Don''t give him so much as one second of attention or he will never stop. Been there done that have the restraining order to prove it!!! Even saying ''go away'' is attention to them and they feed off it. NO CONTACT at all. If he threatens to harm himself, please don''t give in. Notify one of his family members or friends. It''s NOT your problem. Psychos can go from 0 to dangerous in no time. Please be safe.

 

[diamondfan]

Deco, a couple things...people are right, and I have been in the scenario too, try not to have any contact. People like this will take any crumb (even if it is you telling them to screw off) and build a relationship out of it. Again, no one can predict what a disturbed person will do and in this day and age we must, for our own well being, kind of assume the worst could happen. More women are crime victims because they feel bad and do not want to embarrass anyone or get them in trouble...like having a weird guy get on the elevator with you when you are alone...I would go off, and not care if I "hurt" his feelings, my life means more than that! Also, the girl who does my hair was stalked by one of the rent a cops where she worked. She did not want to get him fired but it did finally get that bad. He was so inappropriate and kept upping the stakes, and she finally got so scared so had to tell his superiors. There had been murky complaints prior to her and they had documentation so they were able to fire him. I just say, go with your gut and NO ONE should have the right to threaten, intimidate or harass you in any way. Once you end it that should be it! Good luck...

 

[decodelighted]

Thanks again for sharing your stories & all the encouragement/tips etc!!!

Quick update after the "sister talk"

1) blocked all "private caller" calls from all phone #s -- hopefully will avoid the hang ups!

2) routed any incoming mail from his email account to a special "holding" account where I never have to see them - but they''ll exist if evidence is ever needed. My fiance knows where it is & can check it if I need him to.

3) decided with my sister''s input to stop there for now - not pursue any restraining order or "letter of intent" or contact w/ his family & friends BECAUSE, as some have pointed out, ANY CONTACT can feed the culprit. If the first two actions don''t completely solve the problem - or he''s able to get messages to me from another email account or another phone number, we''ll pursure legal action.

4) my fiance has a gun permit & soon, a carry permit.

5) we''re planning a "dog upgrade" on my 40th, 1 1/2 from now ... Rotweillers just moved to the top of the list

(don''t worry - it''s one of those "upgrades" where you keep the original too!)

I might be in the clear for three or four more months ... hope it''s more! But I kind of agree with the folks that say this might never end. And since it''s never been physically threatening in any way ... just "friendly sounding" braggy attention-seeking missives and hangups ... there''s not much cops could do to help. It''s at an "annoyance" level only as far as the law is concerned. Not even technically illegal - or at least, proveable.

Pretty sure I made a BIG MISTAKE "fighting" the contact early on for the first FOUR years maybe. Yelling. Responding. Arguing with him about his sanity ... why we broke up ... weird, meaningless issues in our former relationship. Feeding that "payoff". Now he''s just sure he can "get to me", because HE HAS. If I''d never "paid off" he probably would have given up by now!

 

[Blenheim]

I''m chiming in here pretty late. I''m so sorry that you''re going through this, and that so many other people have had similar experiences. There are some real creeps out there. You''ve been given a lot of good advice, and it seems like you have a good idea of where you want to go from here. One thing though -- please do not blame yourself for initially responding. You had no idea that it would get to this level or keep continuing. Just look towards the future and figure out ways of dealing with it.

{{{hugs}}}

 

[sanfranciscoellen]

Deco,

Check out the WHo''s Who forum...

 

[rainbowtrout]

deco, I''ve known a few rotts, and while they LOOK intimidating and scary (exactly what you want), all the ones with loving owners I know are huge cuddlebugs!

Sounds like a good choice. From my experience with our dogs (akita with a bit of shepard) having one agressive enough to protect you without having it have some serious training is a bad idea.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 4/26/2006 7:30:35 PM
Author: rainbowtrout
deco, I''ve known a few rotts, and while they LOOK intimidating and scary (exactly what you want), all the ones with loving owners I know are huge cuddlebugs! Sounds like a good choice. From my experience with our dogs (akita with a bit of shepard) having one agressive enough to protect you without having it have some serious training is a bad idea.

Hee hee. Good to know! Shhhh-don''t tell--but I actually want a Corgi! Hope Decosbeau ain''t lookin! I''m under the impression that teeny tiny Papilions aren''t supposed to be in the same household with LARGE dogs (saftey hazard for the wee ones, not for fear of attack, but just gettin stepped on!)... but Sweetie wants a big, manly breed ... I have to see what the Vet says when the time comes (but am assuming that we''ll probably have to meet in the middle with a mid-size Snoopy. Beagle?)

 

[rainbowtrout]

well, it IS a safety hazard with some dogs. Make sure they tolerate other animals before you settle on one of the "guard" breeds.

as far as stepping on them, I haven't heard that.

My dad's family has two akitas and they tolerate each other but have nearly killed another few dogs, some squirrels, a bird, and two cats. This is WITH intensive behavior, obediance training, and a loving home. They are just an agressive breed... I think others to stay away from if you have a dog already are Dobermans and Tosas. No others off the top of the head.

I saw a Papillon yesterday--it was a little bitty puppy and I swear her black ears were SO BIG--adorable little baby.


have you ever owned a big, agressive breed? I've found it to be a little intimidting, and I don't even live there all the time. Don't get me wrong, I love our guys to death, but its a lot of vigilence and responsbility.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 4/26/2006 7:42:31 PM
Author: rainbowtrout
have you ever owned a big, agressive breed? its a lot of vigilence and responsbility.

I haven''t ... and to completely, embarrasingly honest -- I had trouble with an aggressive 30 lb. rescue Papillon-mix that attacked me and who I sadly (saddest day of my life almost) turned over to the national breed organization for further analysis and eventual re-adoption. It may have been brain-damage due to an injury the dog suffered before I adopted him --OR-- I might have been a bad doggie mommy (not up to or experienced enough with aggressive dogs).

Major willies about something like that happening again! And we def. have to be super careful about breeds & temperment - ''cause of the four cats we have too (I had 2, he had 2).

 

[Miranda]

We have a Rhodesian Ridgeback and while he''s a huge dog, he''s not too aggressive. Last night while he was eating his dinner, the cat walked up to him and sat in front of him. He backed away and let the cat eat HIS dog food!!! DH was furious. What kind of big, manly dog let''s a cat eat out of his bowl first???

Hope your problem situation is improving!

 

[pricescope]

Miranda, RR are smart enough to evolve from lapdog to "3 pit-bulls" when there is real intruder, not ridiculous cat (sorry, cat lovers

) and they not after their food too much anyway. I love this breed!

 

[Miranda]

Date: 4/26/2006 10:25:33 PM
Author: Pricescope
Miranda, RR are smart enough to evolve from lapdog to ''3 pit-bulls'' when there is real intruder, not ridiculous cat (sorry, cat lovers

) and they not after their food too much anyway. I love this breed!

He IS the best dog...So good with the kids AND my precious cats. He''s huge enough to scare anyone that comes to the door. He sits next to me and looks from their eyes to mine. It''s very unsettling for our lucky guests. It took the UPS man years and lots of dog cookies to get used to him. He still waits for me to give the ok before he''ll take the cookie. So sorry for the threadjack, but, I couldn''t help getting excited...Not many people know about RRs!