Anyone watch Gem tv shows?? Gem Hunt? Game of Stones?

[psproot12]

I remember in an interview, I'll definitely post a link if I can find it again, Bernie goes into detailing about Jade dying and diffusion/heating in corundum. He said that it's cut out of the show because travel channel is more about the locations and the people than the technical aspects of the gems. In that same interview Dianne spoke at length about how she avoids dyed jade and how much it devalues it. I think it's called Gem Hunt New Show Interview, it's by some not too well known youtuber. Haven't been able to see it yet, but I'll keep checking.

 

[psproot12]

No, I don't know Ron personally but I love Gem Hunt, I do kind of annoyed when he makes comments like "in Zambia everything is...", his tendency to make generalizations like that aren't a great trait but I don't need to know local markets to know most local gem dealers can't pay what the Gem Hunters can. In Ethiopia, the average person earns a $500... a year! Let's say a rich gem dealer makes 20 times average, that's still only $10,000 a year. The people selling to Ron do it because they think it's a fair deal, they don't have the resources to cut the stone themselves or export it, so getting a few hundred dollars is great for them. I'm not an idiot, but I look at things a little differently, and I get excited about things easily. I am so optimistic and so not cynical that I guess I come of plantish to some people

 

[OreoRosies86]

Really good question Elliot, but I'm hoping that it is only because he is just younger, less cynnical and perhaps more naive than most of us here...

That seems to be the case

I never want to accuse someone of shilling for a vendor or product, but after so many years lurking on gem sites I have seen my fair share. I guess it has resulted in me giving major side-eye to anyone coming in with over the top enthusiasm for someone in the trade. Sad but true!

 

[smitcompton]

HI,



psproot,

You make the miners and local gem dealers seem very stupid. They all know what the gem prices are and are not going to sell for peanuts. The local dealers are often big outfits. Africa Gems, who posts here is local to mines. Tsavorite, tanzanite, all sold at the mine for high prices.(Nice dealer, they showed him in the series) Bridges.

I want to know how old you are?

Lets cast for a new show. I say three women. Must show the tuscon show, and hongkong show. When dealing with rubies, Richard Huges might do a segment or Vincent Pardieu, or both.

Madagascar, Zambia, and even Mosambique would be good places to go again.. I know he went to Vietnam, but they do have some nice gems(rubies).

Craig-- How much time do people need for these adventures.

Annette

 

[Roger Dery]

I've experienced that retail people pay a much, much higher price per carat then online or through catalog. Based on the premiums charged, I could easily see $1500 being a price for that tourmaline and anyways is they say it SOLD for that price and it didn't it would constitute fraud, why would they want to lose their tv show to give a slightly better price. These gem hunters (middlemen as you call them) are usually the ones who find legendary stones such as the namunyak.

psproot12,
I am wondering how you know this to be true?
Do you have a link to appropriate info on this?
Perhaps a published article from AGTA or ICA or the Gem-A organization?

Appreciate your comments.

 

[psproot12]

I'm 21, the local gem dealers/miners are not stupid! Just poor by Western comments, I was reffering to people who say gem hunters rip people off but it's common sense, the gem hunters must be offering them better prices or else why would they trade with them and not local dealers?

 

[psproot12]

All I meant was that gem hunters are able to find amazing stones at prices gem brokers/dealers aren't because they deal with less middlemen. The namunyak is one of the largest tanzanites ever and it was discovered in Game of Stones.

 

[Dioptase]

If you are interested in the real thing; I totally recommend you to read about Vincent Pardieu's field trips.
Now, he really took risks, travelling to Afghanistan for example, and he has tons of stories to tell about the place he visited. Not to mention beautiful photos.
Check the GIA Bangkok and his personal website.

 

[psproot12]

Yeah, I'm definitely not in the business at all!

 

[Roger Dery]

Ron is Canadian! I don't really feel that way because Ron often is the first Westerner to come to some of the mines for gems, few people are willing to risk it and that's why middlemen stand to make so much money. It's rare that local dealers pay a fraction of what Ron is willing to pay.

From my experience I can't say (the part that I've bolded) is accurate. In an interview that I witnessed at this past year's Tucson show, American Gem Trade Association's CEO Doug Hucker stated that roughly 25% of the 400+ Firm Members have traveled to local areas to buy cut goods and/or gem rough [at least once]. But many routinely visit remote mining locations or buy at local trading markets.

Noted that this figure does not include those who are AGTA Associate Members, or members of the International Colored Stone Association (ICA), other groups or free-lancers.

psproot12 - please know I am not picking on you or being 'snarky'. This is about creating an accurate portrayal of what actually takes place "on the ground" in remote areas where gems or gem roughs are traded.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

psroot-- you are young, but need to learn quickly that you don't just make up stuff on here. You may be surprised how many experts come and post here. Learn first, then you can contribute. Your opinions aren't facts. I still make errors and need correction, but I don't just make stuff up.

We have a wonderful 16-17 yr old who is mature and is a true asset to this board. You can be one too.


Annette

 

[LoversKites]

Hi,

psroot-- you are young, but need to learn quickly that you don't just make up stuff on here. You may be surprised how many experts come and post here. Learn first, then you can contribute. Your opinions aren't facts. I still make errors and need correction, but I don't just make stuff up.

We have a wonderful 16-17 yr old who is mature and is a true asset to this board. You can be one too.


Annette

Are you talking about me?

Annette, thank you, that is extremely kind of you to say and heartwarming to read.

if you weren't referring to me then this will be rather awkward

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,


I was referring to you. You make me feel better about the young generation. You have an admirer here.

Psroot. Oh my lordie, I just saw how you were recommending rubies for someone from ebay. Please, people come here to find something good. They don't know you have been on here ten minutes. Since when do you think you are able to or suggest a 10-15,000 ruby for someone?

In fact Roger Dery had one of the most beautiful rubies a while ago, which sold pretty quickly in the above dollar range.

Please stop giving advise until you learn more.


Annette

 

[LoversKites]

Hi,


I was referring to you. You make me feel better about the young generation. You have an admirer here.

Lol! Good to know. I'll definitely stick around

 

[CraigMeade]

Hi,


There is one person I can think of, and she knows Bernie. My problem is I can't remember her name, but she travels to these places to buy rough and I think does the cutting as well. She lives in Canada, has a nice appearance(from photos on another website) and is well liked.

She and her husband were in computers before and retired(they are youngish) and choose gems as a second career.

Her name is Lisa Elser. Her website is www.lisaelser.com

I'd like to see more shows on gems.

Annette

Thank you Annette, I will see if Lisa would like to chat.

 

[CraigMeade]

To everybody here...

I would love to make more TV about the gem world. I am talking to a couple people we met at Tucson a couple months ago, but if anybody here knows a gem person that would make great TV, I would very much like to be put in touch with them.

cmeade(at)nhnz.tv

I don't know if you can answer this, but why no season 2? Poor ratings? Too expensive to film?

Hmm, I'm not sure what I am able to say here. The show rated well enough I think. But not enough to really excite the channel. It was stable but not really catching on fire, if that makes any sense. Also a channel's direction will change and I think over the two years it took us to make the shows, the channel's interests moved on.

So, Craig what are you professionally? Are you in the gem business or is it just a hobby? What other projects are you working on?

I am just a TV producer and director. I collected rocks and fossils as a kid, and again more recently because I have a six year old son, but otherwise I have no geology training. Right now I am finishing a pilot of an adventure show for Red Bull.

 

[CraigMeade]

I'd like to see more shows on gems too! I do enjoy Gem Hunt and am sad there won't be a season 2. So I'll be looking forward to more shows like it.

I just don't get how they struggle to find a gem throughout the whole show, especially Ron, and he ends up with some mediocre piece. For example, in the aqua show, he went all over the place to find a good piece of aqua, and in the end, he ended up with some really awful pale thing that didn't even have the color of aqua (it was silvery greyish white if I remember correctly).

That's why I always thought it was staged because the gems he usually ends up with are the kind you can find on ebay from the inexpensive Thai dealers. Why bother traveling half across the world for that kind of material? I mean bags of black spinel too?

I was always hoping he would end up with some magnificent pieces for all that work/travel/danger, and he never really did. I guess he did end up on one show with a nice emerald, but that was about it.

In future, for these shows, I wish they wouldn't underestimate the intelligence of the audience, because some of us really know what we're talking about, and I wish they would discuss treatment too. I know its not a consumer show, but these show do affect people looking to buy.

That being said, I did enjoy "Gem Hunt" way more than "Game of Stones." I couldn't even watch "Game of Stones" as it annoyed me to no end.

Thank you for the thoughts and the interest.

One of the difficulties is that we had to pre-plan to go to X country for X amount of time, and had to follow X path as pre-arranged with the government. None of which makes a gem hunt simple. It used to drive Ron crazy.

So in some ways the team had one hand tied behind their back.

The second and third world countries that are gem rich usually have quite stringent rules regarding media. We often had a minder that would report on our every move. So picking up stumps and heading across the country to follow a good lead was not always possible.

And because we are a prominent and well run production company health and safety rules as well as legalities also may have limited our chance of finding the best stones.

But at the same time, Ron and Diane had a vision for what they could do with black spinel. It's a design thing. Its sounded beautiful to me. They just didn't include the whole TV audience in that vision for obvious reason.

If our buying was staged, we would have been 'buying' the most amazing stones ever, all the time.

 

[CraigMeade]

I remember in an interview, I'll definitely post a link if I can find it again, Bernie goes into detailing about Jade dying and diffusion/heating in corundum. He said that it's cut out of the show because travel channel is more about the locations and the people than the technical aspects of the gems. In that same interview Dianne spoke at length about how she avoids dyed jade and how much it devalues it. I think it's called Gem Hunt New Show Interview, it's by some not too well known youtuber. Haven't been able to see it yet, but I'll keep checking.

That interview is here...

http://better.tv/view/beauty3-beauty-the-gem-hunters

 

[CraigMeade]

No, I don't know Ron personally but I love Gem Hunt, I do kind of annoyed when he makes comments like "in Zambia everything is...", his tendency to make generalizations like that aren't a great trait but I don't need to know local markets to know most local gem dealers can't pay what the Gem Hunters can. In Ethiopia, the average person earns a $500... a year! Let's say a rich gem dealer makes 20 times average, that's still only $10,000 a year. The people selling to Ron do it because they think it's a fair deal, they don't have the resources to cut the stone themselves or export it, so getting a few hundred dollars is great for them. I'm not an idiot, but I look at things a little differently, and I get excited about things easily. I am so optimistic and so not cynical that I guess I come of plantish to some people

I think anybody who has a fist full of raw gemstone is doing OK no matter the country. There are so many countries and so many people that need our help, but anybody holding a gemstone is not one of those people. Or at least, their need is not the greatest as compared to a farmer who's rice crop failed for grow.

One thing you would notice if you had travelled with us is that almost everyone in the Gem biz has an iPhone or the equivalent and everyone has the capability of checking or hearing about international prices. And there are both smart and naïve gem buyers coming and going all day every day from these gem rich places. Which makes it a sellers market - if they don't like one deal they can wait till the next buyer comes along.

When we met what seemed like true hardship cases such as the Guaceros outside Muzo in Colombia, the team went quite a distance to buy from them whether they wanted the stones or not. And then we find out they had recently sold an emerald worth US$270,000! So maybe they weren't such a case of hardship after all.

 

[CraigMeade]

HI,



psproot,

You make the miners and local gem dealers seem very stupid. They all know what the gem prices are and are not going to sell for peanuts. The local dealers are often big outfits. Africa Gems, who posts here is local to mines. Tsavorite, tanzanite, all sold at the mine for high prices.(Nice dealer, they showed him in the series) Bridges.

I want to know how old you are?

Lets cast for a new show. I say three women. Must show the tuscon show, and hongkong show. When dealing with rubies, Richard Huges might do a segment or Vincent Pardieu, or both.

Madagascar, Zambia, and even Mosambique would be good places to go again.. I know he went to Vietnam, but they do have some nice gems(rubies).

Craig-- How much time do people need for these adventures.

Annette

Time requirements: a 10 day shoot per episode and we would try to shoot two in a row. So basically if you include travel time etc it would be a month on the road, and then a month at home.

Vincent was the first guy we talked to when we developed the show and he and his writing provided invaluable insight throughout the production. He helped us a great deal. And so did some of his former student/interns.

But Vincent is the real deal, so I would be surprised if he would want to shelve his current life to go play at TV presenter for a year.

We spoke to Richard too, but the answer was somewhat gruff.

I want to make a new version of the show where we get even closer to the mines. I want to see the rock coming out of the vug - the true moment of discovery. But I haven't yet figured out how to do that.

In Madagascar I spoke to a miner who was selling some nice big crystals of aqua and I asked him about finding them. He described breaking into a small cave filled with aqua. He blew my mind with that.

 

[CraigMeade]

All I meant was that gem hunters are able to find amazing stones at prices gem brokers/dealers aren't because they deal with less middlemen. The namunyak is one of the largest tanzanites ever and it was discovered in Game of Stones.

I'm somewhat sceptical about the namunyak. I haven't seen the whole show, just a clip, but a couple things leap out...

1) It's very illegal in Tanzania to buy off people that aren't licensed dealers. From memory you can't export rough stones either.


2) The stone they show is not nearly big enough to be the world's largest or even one of the largest. I think the largest on record is in the order of 16,000 carats. Tanzanite One has it on display at their mine offices.

 

[CraigMeade]

If you are interested in the real thing; I totally recommend you to read about Vincent Pardieu's field trips.
Now, he really took risks, travelling to Afghanistan for example, and he has tons of stories to tell about the place he visited. Not to mention beautiful photos.
Check the GIA Bangkok and his personal website.

Thank you, I totally agree. After a couple years of closely reading his reports for leads we could chase I consider myself a minor expert in the journeys of Pardieu.

 

[Roger Dery]

All I meant was that gem hunters are able to find amazing stones at prices gem brokers/dealers aren't because they deal with less middlemen. The namunyak is one of the largest tanzanites ever and it was discovered in Game of Stones.

I'm somewhat sceptical about the namunyak. I haven't seen the whole show, just a clip, but a couple things leap out...

1) It's very illegal in Tanzania to buy off people that aren't licensed dealers. From memory you can't export rough stones either.

2) The stone they show is not nearly big enough to be the world's largest or even one of the largest. I think the largest on record is in the order of 16,000 carats. Tanzanite One has it on display at their mine offices.

Hi Craig,
appreciate the valuable info you've imparted here and up-thread.

A few more thoughts on buying/licensing.....
1-a) buying from unlicensed local dealers wasn't always illegal, but it is now. In addition, foreign buyers (outside of the 8 east African countries that belong to SEAMIC) are now required to acquire a 90-day CTA permit that is inserted next to your Visa inside your Passport. CTA = Carrying Temporary Assignment. And, of course, you must have a Business Visa to apply for the CTA. Tourist Visa's are not suitable.

1-b) regarding dealing in gem rough from Tanzania specifically, it is only illegal to export Tanzanite rough if it weights 1.0gram or higher. This was invoked in Feb 2010 to be an encouragement to build up the domestic lapidary industry. However, the export ban is temporarily lifted during the Arusha Gem Fair in Oct/Nov each year.

I hope you find this helpful.

 

[minousbijoux]

All I meant was that gem hunters are able to find amazing stones at prices gem brokers/dealers aren't because they deal with less middlemen. The namunyak is one of the largest tanzanites ever and it was discovered in Game of Stones.

I'm somewhat sceptical about the namunyak. I haven't seen the whole show, just a clip, but a couple things leap out...

1) It's very illegal in Tanzania to buy off people that aren't licensed dealers. From memory you can't export rough stones either.

2) The stone they show is not nearly big enough to be the world's largest or even one of the largest. I think the largest on record is in the order of 16,000 carats. Tanzanite One has it on display at their mine offices.

Hi Craig,
appreciate the valuable info you've imparted here and up-thread.

A few more thoughts on buying/licensing.....
1-a) buying from unlicensed local dealers wasn't always illegal, but it is now. In addition, foreign buyers (outside of the 8 east African countries that belong to SEAMIC) are now required to acquire a 90-day CTA permit that is inserted next to your Visa inside your Passport. CTA = Carrying Temporary Assignment. And, of course, you must have a Business Visa to apply for the CTA. Tourist Visa's are not suitable.

1-b) regarding dealing in gem rough from Tanzania specifically, it is only illegal to export Tanzanite rough if it weights 1.0gram or higher. This was invoked in Feb 2010 to be an encouragement to build up the domestic lapidary industry. However, the export ban is temporarily lifted during the Arusha Gem Fair in Oct/Nov each year.

I hope you find this helpful.

Roger: thanks for your clarification. Did you mean 1.0 grams or 10 grams? 1.0 is such a low threshold...

 

[Roger Dery]

All I meant was that gem hunters are able to find amazing stones at prices gem brokers/dealers aren't because they deal with less middlemen. The namunyak is one of the largest tanzanites ever and it was discovered in Game of Stones.

I'm somewhat sceptical about the namunyak. I haven't seen the whole show, just a clip, but a couple things leap out...

1) It's very illegal in Tanzania to buy off people that aren't licensed dealers. From memory you can't export rough stones either.

2) The stone they show is not nearly big enough to be the world's largest or even one of the largest. I think the largest on record is in the order of 16,000 carats. Tanzanite One has it on display at their mine offices.

Hi Craig,
appreciate the valuable info you've imparted here and up-thread.

A few more thoughts on buying/licensing.....
1-a) buying from unlicensed local dealers wasn't always illegal, but it is now. In addition, foreign buyers (outside of the 8 east African countries that belong to SEAMIC) are now required to acquire a 90-day CTA permit that is inserted next to your Visa inside your Passport. CTA = Carrying Temporary Assignment. And, of course, you must have a Business Visa to apply for the CTA. Tourist Visa's are not suitable.

1-b) regarding dealing in gem rough from Tanzania specifically, it is only illegal to export Tanzanite rough if it weights 1.0gram or higher. This was invoked in Feb 2010 to be an encouragement to build up the domestic lapidary industry. However, the export ban is temporarily lifted during the Arusha Gem Fair in Oct/Nov each year.

I hope you find this helpful.

Roger: thanks for your clarification. Did you mean 1.0 grams or 10 grams? 1.0 is such a low threshold...

Hey Minou.... sorry to disappoint, but yes it is a low threshold. It is maximum 1.0 grams as the rule. So basically, the smaller roughs that would produce cut stones up to about 1-1/4ct to maybe even 1-1/2cts is the limit. Over 1.0 grams must be cut locally.

 

[CraigMeade]

All I meant was that gem hunters are able to find amazing stones at prices gem brokers/dealers aren't because they deal with less middlemen. The namunyak is one of the largest tanzanites ever and it was discovered in Game of Stones.

I'm somewhat sceptical about the namunyak. I haven't seen the whole show, just a clip, but a couple things leap out...

1) It's very illegal in Tanzania to buy off people that aren't licensed dealers. From memory you can't export rough stones either.

2) The stone they show is not nearly big enough to be the world's largest or even one of the largest. I think the largest on record is in the order of 16,000 carats. Tanzanite One has it on display at their mine offices.

Hi Craig,
appreciate the valuable info you've imparted here and up-thread.

A few more thoughts on buying/licensing.....
1-a) buying from unlicensed local dealers wasn't always illegal, but it is now. In addition, foreign buyers (outside of the 8 east African countries that belong to SEAMIC) are now required to acquire a 90-day CTA permit that is inserted next to your Visa inside your Passport. CTA = Carrying Temporary Assignment. And, of course, you must have a Business Visa to apply for the CTA. Tourist Visa's are not suitable.

1-b) regarding dealing in gem rough from Tanzania specifically, it is only illegal to export Tanzanite rough if it weights 1.0gram or higher. This was invoked in Feb 2010 to be an encouragement to build up the domestic lapidary industry. However, the export ban is temporarily lifted during the Arusha Gem Fair in Oct/Nov each year.

I hope you find this helpful.

Roger: thanks for your clarification. Did you mean 1.0 grams or 10 grams? 1.0 is such a low threshold...

Hey Minou.... sorry to disappoint, but yes it is a low threshold. It is maximum 1.0 grams as the rule. So basically, the smaller roughs that would produce cut stones up to about 1-1/4ct to maybe even 1-1/2cts is the limit. Over 1.0 grams must be cut locally.

And as I understand it, the cutting options there are not so good just yet.

 

[lelser]

CraigMeade
And as I understand it, the cutting options there are not so good just yet.

They are not, but I've had things quickly "preformed" so that they could be exported as cut stones without losing too much of the material, and then recut them when I got home. It's not uncommon, and a local cutter gets a little money as well.

Cheers,

Lisa
www.lisaelser.com

 

[CraigMeade]

CraigMeade
And as I understand it, the cutting options there are not so good just yet.

They are not, but I've had things quickly "preformed" so that they could be exported as cut stones without losing too much of the material, and then recut them when I got home. It's not uncommon, and a local cutter gets a little money as well.

Cheers,

Lisa
www.lisaelser.com

Hi Lisa, I was internet stalking you just this morning!

 

[psproot12]

Ron is Canadian! I don't really feel that way because Ron often is the first Westerner to come to some of the mines for gems, few people are willing to risk it and that's why middlemen stand to make so much money. It's rare that local dealers pay a fraction of what Ron is willing to pay.

From my experience I can't say (the part that I've bolded) is accurate. In an interview that I witnessed at this past year's Tucson show, American Gem Trade Association's CEO Doug Hucker stated that roughly 25% of the 400+ Firm Members have traveled to local areas to buy cut goods and/or gem rough [at least once]. But many routinely visit remote mining locations or buy at local trading markets.

Noted that this figure does not include those who are AGTA Associate Members, or members of the International Colored Stone Association (ICA), other groups or free-lancers.

psproot12 - please know I am not picking on you or being 'snarky'. This is about creating an accurate portrayal of what actually takes place "on the ground" in remote areas where gems or gem roughs are traded.

There's a huge difference between going to a gem dealer in Thailand and going directly to mines in Ehtiopia. There really aren't that many gem buyers willing to go into the really remote locations, but again I'm not an expert, if you want a real accurate portrayal I guess the only way to see is to go on location yourself.

 

[psproot12]

All I meant was that gem hunters are able to find amazing stones at prices gem brokers/dealers aren't because they deal with less middlemen. The namunyak is one of the largest tanzanites ever and it was discovered in Game of Stones.

I'm somewhat sceptical about the namunyak. I haven't seen the whole show, just a clip, but a couple things leap out...

1) It's very illegal in Tanzania to buy off people that aren't licensed dealers. From memory you can't export rough stones either.


2) The stone they show is not nearly big enough to be the world's largest or even one of the largest. I think the largest on record is in the order of 16,000 carats. Tanzanite One has it on display at their mine offices.

So then why did they make those claims on Game of Stones? I have seen the whole episode and they definitely call it "record breaking", but based I don't even know what to think anymore. I expected to find lots of other fans but I found a lot of cynics and skeptics (not that that's a bad thing ). Also the Game of Stones guy buy it off a local Masai tribe, I don't know if that's the reason they may have been able to buy it.

Several of my other favorite shows are/were on travel channel Bizarre Foods (currently America(s)), No reservations, etc. Have you interacted with anybody on these shows? Doubt it given the "travel" nature of travel channel. Anyway, wish you success with your Red Bull show and hopefully in a couple of years you will be able to pitch Ron or another gem hunter and get another gem show.