Aqua cab full of resin treatment

[T L]

This cab was determined to be full of resin by AIGS, so buyer beware.

 

[chrono]

Thanks for being vigilant, TL. Sheesh, even cabochons are no longer safe.

 

[iLander]

Wow. It's just getting ridiculous out there, isn't it?

 

[iLander]

Wow. It's just getting ridiculous out there, isn't it?

 

[minousbijoux]

I am curious in this particular case why. I don't have a before picture by which to judge, but it certainly doesn't have great clarity so don't think the resin was a clarity enhancer. Its not super bright in color so its doubtful it improved the color. Why, then, would they use it? To hold a fractured stone together? To make it appear stronger? I just can't get the why in this case...

 

[Nicki]

I am curious in this particular case why. I don't have a before picture by which to judge, but it certainly doesn't have great clarity so don't think the resin was a clarity enhancer. Its not super bright in color so its doubtful it improved the color. Why, then, would they use it? To hold a fractured stone together? To make it appear stronger? I just can't get the why in this case...

As a cabber, I've used resin a few times. It's usually used to fill pits in the material so you have a nice polished cab dome. Some of the nicest material can be super pitty (especially those with inclusions like moss agates, etc). Should have been disclosed by the vendor though.

 

[LD]

I am curious in this particular case why. I don't have a before picture by which to judge, but it certainly doesn't have great clarity so don't think the resin was a clarity enhancer. Its not super bright in color so its doubtful it improved the color. Why, then, would they use it? To hold a fractured stone together? To make it appear stronger? I just can't get the why in this case...

As a cabber, I've used resin a few times. It's usually used to fill pits in the material so you have a nice polished cab dome. Some of the nicest material can be super pitty (especially those with inclusions like moss agates, etc). Should have been disclosed by the vendor though.

I understand that but WHY would you bother with an Aqua this horribly included? I doubt the resin was just to fill pits in this instance. If it was it was clearly a waste of time! I suspect it was dunked in resin for a few years to fill it out completely. Yuck!

 

[minousbijoux]

Yes, maybe that's the better question - why would one bother?

 

[ChrisA222]

Why would someone bother?? Heres why....

Im sure resin doesn't cost much. What I have learned recently, is that there is someone out there for every stone. It doesn't matter how ugly it may look to me, or us....but I guarantee someone out there would see it and say.."wow, that is awesome".

 

[LD]

Why would someone bother?? Heres why....

Im sure resin doesn't cost much. What I have learned recently, is that there is someone out there for every stone. It doesn't matter how ugly it may look to me, or us....but I guarantee someone out there would see it and say.."wow, that is awesome".

........... and would you then feel comfortable recommending that type of Vendor? I wouldn't. It's a classic example of a stone flipper and / or shark!

 

[Alnitak]

Yes, maybe that's the better question - why would one bother?

Because as others have pointed out resin can stabilize or fill pits and cracks and at the same time improve clarity--and its cheap and easy to do. A lot of cabs and beads--especially cheaper ones--will have resin in them. As long as its disclosed, it shouldn't be an issue, but expect to pay less for the ones with resin.

 

[JewelFreak]

Appalling. Shows the importance of finding vendors you can trust to be truthful.

 

[Quantz Studios]

Same with GF corundum and opal triplets and such: Why throw something away that you can treat and sell for a few bucks? That's why.

 

[minousbijoux]

I agree with you, Laurie! And Ryan, its exactly like GF with corundum, which most of us here utterly disdain. I know as a cutter/seller it would suck all the fun out of it for me to take a natural stone and gunk it up just to sell it to make a few bucks.

 

[ChrisA222]

We don't know anything though....why are you guys upset?

We dont know if the vendor disclosed or did not disclose. We dont know the price. What if it sold for $19.99 and is a 5ct piece. Yeah, its treated, but you got it for $19.99. Regardless of price, it should be disclosed. But we don't know if it was or was not. All the post said was that AIGS found a stone had resin. Lots of stones have resin...not seeing the issue here, unless this was a case of a buyer not knowing about it.

Like Ryan and others said, if treatment is cheap, and effective (serves a purpose) then there's no problem selling it as long as the vendor is being up front about it. Thats all.

 

[LD]

We don't know anything though....why are you guys upset?

We dont know if the vendor disclosed or did not disclose. We dont know the price. What if it sold for $19.99 and is a 5ct piece. Yeah, its treated, but you got it for $19.99. Regardless of price, it should be disclosed. But we don't know if it was or was not. All the post said was that AIGS found a stone had resin. Lots of stones have resin...not seeing the issue here, unless this was a case of a buyer not knowing about it.

Like Ryan and others said, if treatment is cheap, and effective (serves a purpose) then there's no problem selling it as long as the vendor is being up front about it. Thats all.

This is a consumer forum. Many many many vendors don't disclose treatments. That's a fact. If people are aware of what can be applied to a stone then they will be on guard against it. I believe that was the purpose of this thread.

 

[minousbijoux]

Chris: you mean why are people commenting? I will assume that you used the term "why are you guys upset" to mean why is it an issue and being discussed, as clearly no one has expressed emotion or been shown to be aggravated. Speaking for myself, I'm just pointing out that I lose interest when something is no longer natural. I also lose interest when I think something is unattractive. That aqua is both.

 

[Alnitak]

I agree with you, Laurie! And Ryan, its exactly like GF with corundum, which most of us here utterly disdain. I know as a cutter/seller it would suck all the fun out of it for me to take a natural stone and gunk it up just to sell it to make a few bucks.

Yes, but that's a personal decision. Try and see it from the perspective of the miner: He or she needs to maximize every dollar they can from what they pull out of the ground. There's no guarantee that there will be more material in the future, so a smart mine owner squeezes every penny out of what they get. Try and see it from the perspective of those who have less disposable income: They might be only able to afford a GF ruby or a resin-treated cabochon. Why shouldn't they be able to at least have that pleasure?

Personally I don't want to buy resin-filled stones unless I know I can't afford any other option. As long as its disclosed then it shouldn't matter. In the end, though that's the problem. All too often its NOT disclosed, which messes up everything.

 

[minousbijoux]

Alnitak: thanks for that perspective. I absolutely agree with you about anybody who's in the business being able to do whatever they want - as long as fully disclosed and honest - to make a living. Of course mine owners should maximize their return. But as someone who more or less collects rather than buying in quantity, I care about the quality of what I buy, as the majority here do. There is nothing wrong with lead glass filling or Be treating stones and it certainly allows opportunities for many who otherwise could not afford a stone. The problem is in the disclosure. There are so many occasions where treated stones are not fully disclosed (cough, cough, Tiffanys), and many here have learned the hard way.

My point about the cutters was simply my personal point of view. I have nothing but admiration for the cutters that frequent this forum and/or who cut the great stones we purchase. I was just saying that since the stones are what got me here, and their natural integrity is important to me, that if I were a cutter, I would not derive satisfaction from cutting resin-filled, coated or otherwise treated stones.

If there was 100% transparency in the trade, then this would be a no brainer, but as it is now, when a perceived new treatment surfaces, or an existing treatment is found now to be applied to yet another stone type, we simply warn each other, as TL has kindly done.

 

[pregcurious]

I wonder what it looked like before the resin. Do we have an info on how much it was sold for and if the treatment was disclosed?

 

[chrono]

I think the resin is what's holding the cabochon together. Per TL's description, I surmise the level of filling to be major and if it looks this bad after treatment, I cannot imagine how terrible it must look prior to that. Typically, the labs catch this when someone suspects something and so sends it in or it was totally unexpected (normal verification). I don't think we'll ever know how much it was purchased for as this is typically not disclosed.

 

[Alnitak]

Aqua that bad looking should have been *really* cheap. Not sure if it was even worth getting tested unless someone was buying a whole lot of it and wanted to know what they were getting. There's a whole lot of that grade of aqua floating around in cheap beads. I'd also bet that most of them are filled in some way over in India or Pakistan, where the bulk of them are coming from. And of course, those sellers rarely disclose that, if they even know.

 

[chrono]

I wonder what's the size of the cabochon. Perhaps it was huge (20 carats), hence the owner was curious?

 

[T L]

From AIGS

"The same aquamarine than before. Resin treatment has been clearly identified by AIGS Gem Lab. This kind of treatment is frequent in beryl, variety emerald but had never been seen before in beryl, variety aquamarine. The blue color we may see let believe that there is possibly also some polymer even if this hasn't been formerly identified."

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/12995_10151242151475684_1584095939_n.jpg

 

[txgreeneyes]

What's the story about this stone? Did someone buy a lot of money for it and then send it to AIGS for a report? Or did AIGS just get a hold of it and tested it for fun?

If someone paid big bucks for it and then found out that it was full of resin, then I'd say we have a story (and a scam). However, if someone paid $5 for it, then I only see a small story.

Then again, no one would send it to AIGS if they paid a small amount for it unless they were really bored and curious.

It is good to be aware that cabs can be treated like that.

 

[vickygigi]

Why would someone bother?? Heres why....

Im sure resin doesn't cost much. What I have learned recently, is that there is someone out there for every stone. It doesn't matter how ugly it may look to me, or us....but I guarantee someone out there would see it and say.."wow, that is awesome".

I'd like to think I had a hand in helping you come to this conclusion. With all of my peculiar taste.....and that of my daughters.

 

[T L]

AIGS did not give a full back story on the stone, but I posted it because it's a case of buyer beware. I don't know how well the resin can improve color or clarity, but resin is currently used on emerald (another form of beryl) to improve clarity, and sometimes even color. It's just something else to think about when buying these stones. I also know they're using resin on garnets and tourmaline as well, but this is the first I heard about it on aqua.

Some aqua is expensive too, and you want to make sure you're getting what you pay for.

 

[LD]

I think people are missing the point.

AIGS have said that they have not seen this type of treatment before to an Aquamarine (although they say they've seen in other beryl).

Therefore as TL has said, buyer beware.

 

[chrono]

This is a heads up to the gem community because:
1. Aquamarine has never been treated other than simple heat, so this a new treatment.
2. Not only is aquamarine now clarity enhanced, it is also likely to be dyed.

If one is not aware of this and I'm sure most vendors will not disclose this treatment, a consumer will not realize what he or she is buying.

 

[Alnitak]

I for one am surprised that AIGS is saying they haven't seen this. I've seen lots of aqua cabs and beads like this at the shows and I could tell you for a fact that a lot of them have been resin treated--in some cases its visually obvious. I simply haven't cared, as the price of this material is so low. We're talking pennies per carat. I guess I don't see a "story" here as this is nothing new.

Think about all of the cheap jewelry out there--a great example is the aquamarine bead necklaces sold by Stauer using magazine ads and in-flight magazines. A bunch of opaque blue aqua beads "appraised" at $1590, but yours for 92% off! The color is too consistent--I'd bet you anything they have all been resin-treated and dyed.

To me the "story" is that AIGS says that they haven't seen this and they think its new. That seems incredible to me.