Are fancy brownish yellow diamond cheaper?

[chrono]

You still seem undecided whether you want a white diamond or a coloured diamond. Before considering this FCD, evaluate what would make you happiest. Do not buy an FCD if deep down you really want a white diamond and only settle for one because it is more affordable in your size. You will end up not being 100% happy with it down the road. Secondary markets are more budget friendly but you also have to know what you are doing because you have little to no recourse and definitely no refunds.

 

[SB621]

I'm stil really confused about what you want here? It seems you want us to jump up and down, while seal clapping for you to go buy it immediately, you will never see this great of a deal again. You have gotten a range of views from people who would buy it and some who wouldn't. The same question keeps coming up and that is- what do you think about it? Do you like it? Do you like the color? Is it worth 15k to you?

 

[kenny]

Hmmm so u mean I can get a diamond 3.5 plus carat for less than 15k? Or what u meant is if it is the diamond I love, the price I paid for is worth it; and it's hard to determine what is a 'deal'

The latter.

But on eBay I have seen huge diamonds that are heavily included and with dirty color for very low prices.
They look like the gunk on the side of the road a week after a snow storm.
Still, people buy them so they can "afford" a 7-carat diamond.

 

[Alexiszoe]

Based on what you have mentioned, it appears that size (at least 3.5 carat) is what you are after, at a pricepoint ($15k) that you can afford, and that the diamond offered to you is good value for money such that if you ever needed to sell it you won’t necessarily lose much money on it. With the latter for diamonds that is probably difficult (as other posters have already explained), however, if you want an “easier to sell” option, saving up for a white RB (G/H/I, VS or eye clean SI) might be the way to go since these are easier to sell compared to an FCD (my guess) or even a fancy shape, and even then, you are likely to make a loss unless you sell it many years from now or through consignment.

 

[MoonRiver]

Hi all, from the numbers do u think the table is too big? When I hold the diamond, I tot the table is big.? From the values provided, what do u all guys think? Definitely nO bow tie effect.

 

[MoonRiver]

I took a very close look and compared with other pear diamond in the shop. The table of this FCD is larger. The table was close to the border of the sharp tip making The crown seems very flat like a plateau, definitely a very low crown. I know that having a large table is not very good as it will look like glass and has light leakage.

The side profile looks like this. (this is a sample pic)

But judging from the report, what does the number suggest?

However this is a FCD, so is the cut still important?

 

[bcavitt]

Earth to MoonRiver! Earth to MoonRiver!! Talk about paralysis by analysis. If you like it buy it, if you keep doubting yourself, don't!
It sounds like you are going to second guess yourself to death about this stone. Yes $15 K is a lot of money, but if you are going to worry about the smallest thing about a FCD, you will never be happy with it.

Personally I've never seen the fascination with yellows anyways. Seems like every jeweler has one of some level in their inventory so their uniqueness just doesn't register with me.

Bryan Cavitt
Images Jewelers

FYI - Our store has 5 yellows in our inventory for Christmas. Most people don't look twice at them, and our customers can easily afford them. Most of them feel the same way I do. They'd rather have a bigger white diamond or a more unusual color than yellow.

 

[Beacon]

FWIW, I attempted a little color correction, assuming the surface under the diamond is white and ignoring the color outside the box.
Not an easy image to white balance since there is more than one light source, as evidenced by the pinkish area at the top or the right image.
I used the round circular white reflection of the light under the diamond as the reference.
The diamond was not singled out for color change, rather the entire image was moved in a direction that made what we know to be white, to look more white and less bluish green.

The color-corrected image is on the right."

You are a genious Kenny!

 

[kenny]

I took a very close look and compared with other pear diamond in the shop. The table of this FCD is larger. The table was close to the border of the sharp tip making The crown seems very flat like a plateau, definitely a very low crown. I know that having a large table is not very good as it will look like glass and has light leakage.

The side profile looks like this. (this is a sample pic)

But judging from the report, what does the number suggest?
However this is a FCD, so is the cut still important?

The diamond in that side view is a different diamond than the one you started this thread with.
The original pear had a depth of 61.2% but the one in that side view has a depth around 40%.

Light leakage is more the result of a diamond being too shallow than from the large table.
When a diamond is too shallow the light strikes the pavilion facets at angles that will not reflect the light back into the diamond.

Here's another example of a very shallow yellow pear with a window:
http://www.fancydiamonds.net/view_diamonds/5482.htm



The depth in this diamond is only 36%, but pears should be closer to 60%. (There are places you can look up desirable proportion ranges.)
One good thing about shallow diamonds is they face up large for their weight, but most informed people find the window takes away from the beautiful light show that only a diamond can put on.
I suspect most buyers of shallow windowing diamonds just don't know any better, and/or want a larger face up size and don't care how poor the light performance is.

You wrote, "However this is a FCD, so is the cut still important?".
There are many threads on this topic since the answer is not so simple.
Sellers of FCDs want to sell everything they have, but I as a buyer seek the needle in the haystack, and FCD with good color AND cut.

Most FCD colors are more expensive than white diamonds so the rough is very valuable.
When any diamond is cut for good light performance more rough is polished away, resulting in a lighter diamond.
Few buyers of diamonds, white or FCDs, understand good cut but they ALL understand carat weight.

Next, FCDs can be cut to make the color stronger by making the light path longer; the more material the light travels through the more color the light picks up.
If they can cut the FCD to earn a higher GIA color grade they can sell it for MUCH more money.
It is understandable that few white diamonds are cut for good light performance but there are TWO profit-related reasons for NOT cutting FCDs for good light performance.
1. Weight
2. Color strength

That said, though rare, there are FCDs with good light performance out there.
I have a couple.
I also have some that window, but I bought them for the color as none with that color and better cut were available; many colors of FCDs are exceedingly rare, plus my budget limits me to tiny ones.
IMHO, yellow is so affordable and relatively plentiful that I'd never buy a windowing yellow.

 

[kenny]

FWIW, I attempted a little color correction, assuming the surface under the diamond is white and ignoring the color outside the box.
Not an easy image to white balance since there is more than one light source, as evidenced by the pinkish area at the top or the right image.
I used the round circular white reflection of the light under the diamond as the reference.
The diamond was not singled out for color change, rather the entire image was moved in a direction that made what we know to be white, to look more white and less bluish green.

The color-corrected image is on the right."

You are a genious Kenny!

You may mail me rather large checks ... care of Pricescope.

 

[Rosebloom]

Have you checked out Diamonds by Lauren? He has a big selection of gorgeous colored diamonds and beautiful settings. He is especially good at maximizing the color in stones that may have modifiers or not be super saturated. If nothing else it's great eye candy! Kenny already mentioned the other leading vendor of fancies.

 

[MoonRiver]

Hi thank you all for your advices. It's really informative. I wanted to be more informed before I take the plunge as this is unlike buying a white diamond. For FCD this is my first encounter, hence I have key questions. Undenialably I'm very attracted to the price and carat weight, but it's not a small amount to me. I certainly do not want to own a yellow glass after blowing 15k

Though the total depth is 61.2%, the pavilion is quite heavy while the crown seems thin, it looks weird to me, not like other pears I've seen. The table seems huge. Hence I held back and want to double check. I was there and ready to sign the card, but held back to come back here to hear from expersts.

Price check, color check, carat check and clarity check... It was the seemingly large table that somehow withheld me. The pic I posted is similar at the crown, quite shallow crown and peculiar table. Kenny, the table of th swallow yellow brown diamond looks similar to my one. Except the table of mine is slightly larger and quite near the border.

Thank you all for putting up with me. I normally do not post and have made quite a number of purchases of white Gia diamonds on my own. It's just this time, I really needed the help to make a good decision on FCD. Thank you for tolerating my questions.

If the table is not a primary concern, I will head back to get it.

 

[kenny]

...

I certainly do not want to own a yellow glass after blowing 15k

Though the total depth is 61.2%, the pavilion is quite heavy while the crown seems thin, it looks weird to me, not like other pears I've seen. The table see...ms huge.

It has a GIA report and if it is from a reputable jeweler it will not be glass.
You could buy and bring in a cheap diamond checker to verify it is diamond.

The table % is 61.2.
According to the chart in the below link 61.2% is within AGA's range (53-61.5%) for their second-best cut grade of pears, "Premium cut".
Their top cut grade table range is 55-60% so 61.2 is a tad on the large side.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-grading-chart-marquis-pear-oval-heart

My main concern is where they put the girdle (How high or low in the side view).
That would be revealed by the "Crown Height" percentage.
Unfortunately for the pear cut GIA does not put crown height on their full reports for colored diamonds, or D-Z diamonds.
I don't know where Dave Atlas (creator of the linked AGA cut chart) expects buyers to get the crown height from.
Maybe you have to pay an appraiser like him to measure it.

Yes a very shallow crown is a legit cause of concern.
Can you post a GOOD macro side-view pic of the diamond resting on its crown?
Place the camera on the table and raise the diamond up on a something like a stack of papers.
Adjust the number of pages to get a perfect 90 degree side view (NOT looking even a little bit down on the diamond).

In summary, the table % is a tad on the large side but not enough to get me to reject it for my own purchase, but your description of the shallow crown is of concern to me.
A good side view pic will allow us to compare it to other pears, and if it is clear and large enough and a true 90% side view we could actually measure the crown % from the pic.

 

[MoonRiver]

Hi Kenny thanks for your information. It's very informative, extremely great expert advice that can only be found here

I didnt make the trip down o the shop and could not take a photo of the side profile. However, the table is 59% and the total depth is 61.2%. With such figure, will thre be a possibility of shallow crown? I still holding back the money as I do not want to end up with store credits...I love the color, the size, the shape, the clarity and the price!!! Being a pear also allow it to have a nice spread, it measures 8.21 by 12.36mm....

I own a 1.02ct cushion, 1.21ct RB, 1.5ctRB, 1.62ctweight RB earrings, 2.4ctRB. All white diamonds... I do hope to have another variation in terms of shape. I just saw Tiffany's yellow diamond range... I can't help but drool over those lemon drops...

 

[MoonRiver]

Hi Kenny I've read that you commented on the window effect on some FCD. May I know how does window effect occur? Thanks.

 

[Noam]

Sarahbear621 – you are correct, you should buy what you love. However, a pink brown diamond should easily cost less than half the price of a brown pink diamond so I personally wouldn't want to be the one paying way too much.

There are vast differences in prices between different colored diamonds. Yes it is true that brownish yellow diamonds are cheaper (a lot cheaper) than yellow diamonds but it shouldn't matter.
Like Sarahbear621 said, if you like it you should buy it. What you can do is check online for price ranges. It is true that comparing colored diamonds is hard but you can find the range of prices.

I actually checked and we also don't have an exact diamond to compare (at Peled)… In this price range the closest we have is a fancy light greenish yellow vs but it is a different color.

Good luck

 

[kenny]

I didnt make the trip down o the shop and could not take a photo of the side profile. However, the table is 59% and the total depth is 61.2%. With such figure, will thre be a possibility of shallow crown?

Sorry, there is no way to know the crown height given only the table % and depth %.
It's like asking how much do all people weigh who are five foot tall.

I made a drawing that may help visualize crown height.
Both of these pears are shown in side view.
They both have the exact same depth and table percentage. (Not that same as "your" diamond, but that is not relevant here.)

Crown height is the distance from the top surface, the table, to the girdle.
Notice the pear on the top has a shallower crown height.
(Basically we are talking about were they put the girdle in the side view, low or high.)

 

[MoonRiver]

The diamond that I want to buy has a side profile like the first one that u've drawn. The crown is on the high side. Is it not good? Does this cause light leakage and lack of brilliance?

Thanks a lot kenny!!!! U r really really really helpful. Am so grateful.

 

[chrono]

The first example has a low crown.
The second example has a very high crown.

I am confused because you said it is like the first (low crown), then said it has a high crown.

 

[MoonRiver]

Sorry my bad. I mean the diamond I want to buy has a shallow crown. It has a high placed girdle. Is this a bad diamond? Can this cause window? It's definitely has no bowtie in no matter what angle. Thanks a million!

 

[kenny]

The diamond that I want to buy has a side profile like the first one that u've drawn. The crown is on the high side. Is it not good? Does this cause light leakage and lack of brilliance?

Thanks a lot kenny!!!! U r really really really helpful. Am so grateful.

I'm sorry I do not know the answer.
Hopefully someone well qualified regarding cut, like KarlK, DiaGem, Serg, Garry Holloway, or John Pollard will answer whether a pear with a shallow crown will lack brilliance and have light leakage.

Here's a test for light leakage.
Place the loose diamond over a colored surface and observe it face up, people often use the back of their fingers as below in LAURAKAYP's pic from CS forum.
If you look into the top of the diamond and see the background color then the stone it is leaking.

It will be easier to notice leakage if the color of the stone and background are not similar, so I recommend holding your Brownish-Yellow pear in a tweezers above something purple, since purple is the opposite of yellow.
Rock the diamond back and forth to see if there it windows when you tilt it.
Bring in a well-cut diamond for comparison.

 

[dianabarbara]

Hi Moonriver

you are getting a ton of great technical advice here

my apologies if this sounds offending in any way, but here is my small, honest contribution: reading your posts I do get the impression that you are worried in making the wrong choice and at the same time very strongly feeling you want a large stone, though not necessarily this one.
I've been in the same place too, and felt that I urgently wanted a beautiful, perfect ring.

My suggestion is to take a step back and not think about it for a while. Things will go back into perspective, and you will probably not obsess about it anymore. Then, you can go back to it, and think more lucidly about whether you want a yellow stone, whether you want it to be a diamond, and whether you want a pear cut.

Since you have very small fingers, I would even suggest you to wear for a while a ring with a similarly sized and shaped stone (perhaps a CZ?), to see how you *really* like it. How does the color look against your skin? How does it compare to the stones you already own?

You will then be in a better place to judge, and have greater peace of mind while taking your decision.


All the best, d.