Are you surprised by the Iowa caucus??

[HollyS]

You was surprised to see Huckabee have such a huge win over Romney, and Hillary come in 3rd?

Amazing. Even more amazing was the estimate that only about 1/10th the state''s voters would even bother turning out. Good heavens, what is wrong with people!

 

[MichelleCarmen]

It''s disappointing that the turnout was low, but realistically, people are working, communting and have kids so time is limited. Imagine how different elections would be like if there wasn''t absentee voting!

I''m not sure what to think of the results, but have decided who I am voting for (Edwards) and am keeping my fingers crossed that he wins!

 

[surfgirl]

HuckWHO? Yeah, that surprised me. As did Obama''s victory but at least I feel we have a decent selection on that side of the fence. Looking at the other side, it''s scary to see all the religiously influenced candidates...Makes you wonder if anyone remembers this thing called "separation of church and state".

As for low voter turn out, I heard that Dem''s made up the majority of those turning out, which was nice to hear but surprising nonetheless. I honestly get so disgusted with people here who dont bother to vote because they''re "too busy". I sometimes wish I could gather up all those people who cant be be bothered to vote, and send them to a place where voting isn''t a right (like, say, Myanmar), and make them live there for one year. And only let them come home if they promise to vote every year for the rest of their lives. Seriously. There is NO excuse for not voting in a country where voting is your birth right.

 

[fleur-de-lis]

We weren't surprised by either the low Republican turnout or the Huckabee win; we both thought Edwards would narrowly win Iowa though. *HUGE* night for Obama.

We'll see what develops in NH over the next few days, but I'm guessing Obama 1st, Clinton 2nd, and Edwards 3rd on the Dem side, and Romney 1st, McCain very close 2nd, and Huckabee 3rd or even 4th after Guiliani. Thompson's done after SC, though he might limp to SuperTuesday out of vanity.

Interesting night though! It's refreshing to have such a wide-open election year!

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 1/4/2008 1:59:15 PM
Author: surfgirl
HuckWHO? Yeah, that surprised me. As did Obama''s victory but at least I feel we have a decent selection on that side of the fence. Looking at the other side, it''s scary to see all the religiously influenced candidates...Makes you wonder if anyone remembers this thing called ''separation of church and state''.

As for low voter turn out, I heard that Dem''s made up the majority of those turning out, which was nice to hear but surprising nonetheless. I honestly get so disgusted with people here who dont bother to vote because they''re ''too busy''. I sometimes wish I could gather up all those people who cant be be bothered to vote, and send them to a place where voting isn''t a right (like, say, Myanmar), and make them live there for one year. And only let them come home if they promise to vote every year for the rest of their lives. Seriously. There is NO excuse for not voting in a country where voting is your birth right.

Some people work min. wage jobs though and cannot take time off from work to vote or they will lose out on desperately needed money, so I think it''s a bit harsh to say it''s "disgusting." Everyone SHOULD do absentee ballots though, so that would solve the problem for a majority.

The religious aspect of the election scares the h*ll out of me!!! I do not think a preacher should be allowed to be president! It''s highly offensive to me that a person would step up and represent America with such a strong tendancy to one specific religious belief system when so many of us have other beliefs. I feel that if he becomes president, I''ll have to defend my own belief system even more often.

 

[surfgirl]

Date: 1/4/2008 3:20:35 PM
Author: MC

Date: 1/4/2008 1:59:15 PM

Author: surfgirl

HuckWHO? Yeah, that surprised me. As did Obama''s victory but at least I feel we have a decent selection on that side of the fence. Looking at the other side, it''s scary to see all the religiously influenced candidates...Makes you wonder if anyone remembers this thing called ''separation of church and state''.


As for low voter turn out, I heard that Dem''s made up the majority of those turning out, which was nice to hear but surprising nonetheless. I honestly get so disgusted with people here who dont bother to vote because they''re ''too busy''. I sometimes wish I could gather up all those people who cant be be bothered to vote, and send them to a place where voting isn''t a right (like, say, Myanmar), and make them live there for one year. And only let them come home if they promise to vote every year for the rest of their lives. Seriously. There is NO excuse for not voting in a country where voting is your birth right.

Some people work min. wage jobs though and cannot take time off from work to vote or they will lose out on desperately needed money, so I think it''s a bit harsh to say it''s ''disgusting.'' Everyone SHOULD do absentee ballots though, so that would solve the problem for a majority.


The religious aspect of the election scares the h*ll out of me!!! I do not think a preacher should be allowed to be president! It''s highly offensive to me that a person would step up and represent America with such a strong tendancy to one specific religious belief system when so many of us have other beliefs. I feel that if he becomes president, I''ll have to defend my own belief system even more often.

MC, so what do you propose then? Should voting day be a paid day off/federal holiday? Do you think that would increase voting? I''m guessing that many people who use work as an excuse still wouldn''t vote but then again, perhaps if there was a way of proving you voted (special stamped card with your name on it at the ballot venue?), then maybe those who prove they voted would get a paid day off work...Not sure how feasible that is but it would be interesting to see if it helped turn out or not. Then again, I''ve been to plenty of countries where people who are far more impoverished than most Americans make time to stand in line for days just to exercise their right to vote so...I''m not sure it''s really a job related thing and maybe more like people are just plain lazy and have no interest in fighting for what they believe in vis a vis voting.

I do agree with you that nobody that represents a religious group should be allowed to run for President of a country that is supposedly a melting pot of countless cultures and ideologies.

 

[zoebartlett]

I''m in NH and I would bet that it will be Romney and Obama, with Clinton coming in second for the Democrats (not sure who would be 2nd on the Republican side -- Guiliani or MAYBE Huckabee I suppose). I know they''re (media) saying that it''s a three way race between Obama, Clinton, and Edwards, but I think that Edwards seems to be slipping a little. That''s too bad because I really like him and that''s who I''m planning on voting for on Tuesday at our primary. If it came down to Clinton or Obama, I think I''d go with Clinton at this point. I wouldn''t be upset if Obama won though -- they''re views are similar on a lot of issues.

There''s one more debate on tomorrow night and I''m looking forward to watching it. I''ve missed the others, unfortunately.

I''m not sure I actually answered the question but I saw NH mentioned and I thought I''d chime in.

I never actually knew what the caucuses were all about. I saw a thing about it on the news last night but I still don''t quite get it. I did find it very interesting though.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 1/4/2008 4:47:21 PM
Author: surfgirl

MC, so what do you propose then? Should voting day be a paid day off/federal holiday? Do you think that would increase voting? I'm guessing that many people who use work as an excuse still wouldn't vote but then again, perhaps if there was a way of proving you voted (special stamped card with your name on it at the ballot venue?), then maybe those who prove they voted would get a paid day off work...Not sure how feasible that is but it would be interesting to see if it helped turn out or not. Then again, I've been to plenty of countries where people who are far more impoverished than most Americans make time to stand in line for days just to exercise their right to vote so...I'm not sure it's really a job related thing and maybe more like people are just plain lazy and have no interest in fighting for what they believe in vis a vis voting.

I do agree with you that nobody that represents a religious group should be allowed to run for President of a country that is supposedly a melting pot of countless cultures and ideologies.

Giving a partial day off for voting sounds like an excellent solution. If the employee were to take the day off, a stamped card to prove that he/she did vote rather than sat home and watched TV would work.

Many people are overburdened with mortgages and other financial obligations that citizens of other countries aren't dealing with, so they're forced to work all hours. On Wednesday, a woman at the grocery store said she cannot take work off for her kids' vacations and sickness and she dumps them at her neighbor's house whenever they're out of school during conference week. She was about 40 and works as a grocery bagger. Can you imagine having so little control over your time that you rely on others to take your kids just to make $10/hr or whatever? That would easily create appathy and less desire to push a manager of the store to give time to stand and vote when a person already feels subdued. Laziness? To a certain extend. But the short-term gain of that bit of income is what's on her mind. This is the AMERICAN mind-set, not the "impoverished" citizens of a foreign country.

On Air America, Thom Hartman talks all about the subdueing of the middle-class and how people are pushed into low-wage jobs and rely on such small incomes that most of the simple pleasures of life we have, like takinga long lunch or a three-day weekend are unheard of because they need EVERY penny to keep their homes. People truely do work 2 jobs making min. wage at each of them and don't have time to vote and it's unfair to judge them for that.

 

[Elmorton]

As a first time caucus-going Iowan speaking here: What on earth do you mean by low turnout? When I lived in IL I never voted in a primary - honestly, I didn''t see much point to it, since in the past presidential elections where I''ve been eligible to vote the candidates were pretty darned identical/it seemed obvious as to who would win.

Last night, Iowans braved something like 5 degree weather (we literally walked about 5 blocks because of the lack of parking) to stand in disorganized lines and then sit (or, as we did, stand) in hot, overcrowded rooms, straining to listen as they were counted and re-counted. It''s like a very disorganized PTA meeting and it takes time - we were there from 6:30 until about 8:30. If you have a job, kids, etc, it''s a giant PITA - but very, very cool to be a part of, and I''m so glad we participated. In our precinct, almost HALF of the people in attendance (306 of us in a crowded elementary school library) were first-time caucus go-ers. This was true all over the state. Most new caucusing Iowans went to the Democrats - is this surprising? No way - the democratic candidates are making history this year. That''s exciting stuff!

Surprised by a low Republican turnout? Um...joking, right? If people aren''t pleased with Bush, these candidates certainly aren''t offering much improvement. There''s an actor, a gynocologist, a christian right candidate whose religion is not exactly accepted by most fundamentalist/evangelical christians, a former mayor who didn''t even bother at all in Iowa, and a man with a four-year degree from a no-name "college" - wow, what a pool. The QC Times ran a story this morning about a 90-year old first timer caucusing for Obama after voting Republican her entire life.

The biggest surprise for me is actually how well Edwards did. He was completely out-funded by both Hillary and Obama and managed a pretty solid second. I hadn''t even seen Edwards commercials on air until this week. In our precinct, Obama took most of the non-viable caucusers, two went to Hillary, but a pretty formidable group went to Edwards. It will be very interesting to see what happens in New Hampshire.

If the caucus is any indication, the younger voters are going to really show up for this election. I think that bodes very well for Obama (most of the young people in our room were in his section).

I completely agree with the statement that we should have voting day as a federal holiday. Even as a college student, it was often difficult to figure out when on earth I''d be able to get away to my polling place - I can''t imagine how much more difficult it is for hourly wage earners, people with children, etc.

But - this is going to sound horrible - if a person doesn''t realize how important her or his voice is and doesn''t take the weight of civic duty seriously, I don''t think that person SHOULD be voting. I think last night showed that Iowans (and Americans) care a whole lot about the future of our country.

 

[somethingshiny]

I just thought I''d chime in with my former-employers'' take on voting. We could be half a day late or leave half a day early to vote (paid). All they wanted to see was the little sticker you get that says "I voted" (or whatever). Every staff member voted through the years I worked for them. I realize that having less than 20 employees makes this more feasible than for a company that has hundreds or thousands, but if my employers (with a very limited income compared to big companies) were willing to take the financial hit, why wouldn''t a big-time company??

 

[Apsara]

Is anyone alarmed that Obama won? Does anyone know why he won't sing our national anthem or wear a flag pin? I am asking seriously.... not being fascitious. And who is he really? Something about him scares me. Big time.

I don't care what color ro gender peope are so it is SO not about that (I had hoped Hillary would win--I am a registerd Republican but I never vote strictly along part lines...and I'd consider voting for Hillary and would like to see two somewhat decent candidates emerge).... Obama really scares me. I don't like him.

 

[surfgirl]

Date: 1/4/2008 10:06:39 PM
Author: Apsara
Is anyone alarmed that Obama won? Does anyone know why he won''t sing our national anthem or wear a flag pin? I am asking seriously.... not being fascitious. And who is he really? Something about him scares me. Big time.


I don''t care what color ro gender peope are so it is SO not about that (I had hoped Hillary would win--I am a registerd Republican but I never vote strictly along part lines...and I''d consider voting for Hillary and would like to see two somewhat decent candidates emerge).... Obama really scares me. I don''t like him.

Apsara, wearing a pin or singing a song do not an American make. It''s what a person is made of and how the contribute, or not, to society in a positive manner. I could care less if someone wear''s a pin or sings what is one of the most awful national anthems in the world. Your post has no substantive issues to be fearful of. What exactly are you "afraid" of, besides someone not wearing a pin? I''m asking seriously. Because to me, while I dont know a ton about Obama, he appears to be a thoughtful, level headed individual who listens to people and for me, that''s a helluva lot more than we have right now.

 

[diamondfan]

I wish I knew more, really, about each candidate. Huckabee being extreme in his religious views scares me. The president of the US can believe what he wants, but it cannot become what is considered correct because he thinks so. Obama I know little about, but think he lacks overall experience. I would consider a woman president with no issue but something about HC bothers me. I liked Romney as a speaker but know people in MA who cannot abide him, but from what I heard he turned the economy in greater Boston around and does accomplish a lot. Guiliani is wimpy to me, but could he be okay? Maybe. I tend to vote what I think at the time, though I am registered as a Republican...I am a FISCAL one, not one socially, but I like to think people can do more for themselves and that big government can be trimmed a bit. I want art programs, hot lunches, etc though, and good health care, not just for wealthy people, and I do NOT think ketchup is a vegetable!!!

 

[gtn]

I was truly surprised by Hilary''s 3rd place finish. Honestly, I am leaning toward Edwards or Hilary (I have to Feb 5 to decide.) I have to tell you that Huckabee is quickly gaining my respect as a public speaker. I haven''t really focused on the Republican candidates and what issues they stand for since I need to read up on the democratic candidates first.

I also want to add, I can''t stand negative campaigning, I hope this election is not going down that nasty road.

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 1/4/2008 4:47:21 PM
Author: surfgirl
MC, so what do you propose then? Should voting day be a paid day off/federal holiday? Do you think that would increase voting? I''m guessing that many people who use work as an excuse still wouldn''t vote but then again, perhaps if there was a way of proving you voted (special stamped card with your name on it at the ballot venue?), then maybe those who prove they voted would get a paid day off work...Not sure how feasible that is but it would be interesting to see if it helped turn out or not. Then again, I''ve been to plenty of countries where people who are far more impoverished than most Americans make time to stand in line for days just to exercise their right to vote so...I''m not sure it''s really a job related thing and maybe more like people are just plain lazy and have no interest in fighting for what they believe in vis a vis voting.

For what it''s worth, in Australia everyone of voting age has to vote in the elections, or else they''re slapped with a fine.

 

[Rank Amateur]

Don''t place too much stock in the Iowa caucuses. I believe that Reagan, Bush and Clinton didn''t win in Iowa but became President.

I was a little surprised that Hillary was so far back. She received the strongest message of anyone.

There are some things about Huckabee (like his foreign policy comments) which I don''t agree with. These will keep him from getting the nomination.

As for the separation of church and state, there is no such thing. Heck, this country was founded by people looking for (among other things) religious freedom. There is nothing wrong with the desire to have a Christian in the WhiteHouse. Maybe an ordained minister is exactly what we need. It depends on the person.

 

[Apsara]

Date: 1/4/2008 10:54:36 PM
Author: surfgirl

Date: 1/4/2008 10:06:39 PM
Author: Apsara
Is anyone alarmed that Obama won? Does anyone know why he won''t sing our national anthem or wear a flag pin? I am asking seriously.... not being fascitious. And who is he really? Something about him scares me. Big time.


I don''t care what color ro gender peope are so it is SO not about that (I had hoped Hillary would win--I am a registerd Republican but I never vote strictly along part lines...and I''d consider voting for Hillary and would like to see two somewhat decent candidates emerge).... Obama really scares me. I don''t like him.

Apsara, wearing a pin or singing a song do not an American make. It''s what a person is made of and how the contribute, or not, to society in a positive manner. I could care less if someone wear''s a pin or sings what is one of the most awful national anthems in the world. Your post has no substantive issues to be fearful of. What exactly are you ''afraid'' of, besides someone not wearing a pin? I''m asking seriously. Because to me, while I dont know a ton about Obama, he appears to be a thoughtful, level headed individual who listens to people and for me, that''s a helluva lot more than we have right now.

I know full well that "wearing a pin or sinigng a song do not an American make." But for the rercord, the "song" in question is our national anthem, a deep and enduring symbol of the principles of our country.

Yes--I do find it odd that someone who wants to lead our nation won''t engage in the most common displays of patriotism. These acts may seem superficial to some but to me is is disturbing. As I posted, when I asked how others felt, I was wondering if anyone really knew much about him. Oh, he is articulate and smooth--and God knows we''re all craving that after the President we''ve had, but I have serious concerns and continue to do research but it''s hard finding unbiased information to quell the deep gut feeling I have. Hopefully he is just a flash in the pan....

For the record, I was just as disturbed by Fred Thomson several weeks back when he went on Meet The Press and basically stated he thinks we should proactively attack Iran and anyone else who evens seems like a threat. Yikes. But at least we pretty much know his chances are all but nonexistent.

 

[E B]

Date: 1/5/2008 9:12:20 AM
Author: Rank Amateur

There is nothing wrong with the desire to have a Christian in the WhiteHouse. Maybe an ordained minister is exactly what we need. It depends on the person.

Am I to assume you''re Christian?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 1/6/2008 7:55:40 PM
Author: EBree

Date: 1/5/2008 9:12:20 AM
Author: Rank Amateur

There is nothing wrong with the desire to have a Christian in the WhiteHouse. Maybe an ordained minister is exactly what we need. It depends on the person.

Am I to assume you''re Christian?

ya have a problem with that?
The greatest presidents of all time where Christians, 99% of the founding fathers where Christians.
Frankly the Christian bashing in this thread is making me ill.
I am a Christian Patriot who will fight for your right to believe what you want, as long as it don''t interfere with me practicing as I see fit.
It is none of my business what someone else believes and they have the same right I do too believe what they want.
Frankly for all the talk of Christians this and that I''m finding the non-Christians are the ones on the attack...
Well all iv got to say is come get some :}
There is a gun on top of my Bible so come in peace or come prepared for war.

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 1/7/2008 1:43:41 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 1/6/2008 7:55:40 PM

Author: EBree

Date: 1/5/2008 9:12:20 AM

Author: Rank Amateur


There is nothing wrong with the desire to have a Christian in the WhiteHouse. Maybe an ordained minister is exactly what we need. It depends on the person.

Am I to assume you''re Christian?

ya have a problem with that?

The greatest presidents of all time where Christians, 99% of the founding fathers where Christians.

Frankly the Christian bashing in this thread is making me ill.

I am a Christian Patriot who will fight for your right to believe what you want, as long as it don''t interfere with me practicing as I see fit.

It is none of my business what someone else believes and they have the same right I do too believe what they want.

Frankly for all the talk of Christians this and that I''m finding the non-Christians are the ones on the attack...

Well all iv got to say is come get some :}

There is a gun on top of my Bible so come in peace or come prepared for war.

"The non-Christians are the ones on the attack?" All she asked was if that poster (not you) was Christian or not, and you practically bit her face off for inquiring.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 1/7/2008 10:00:11 AM
Author: gwendolyn

''The non-Christians are the ones on the attack?'' All she asked was if that poster (not you) was Christian or not, and you practically bit her face off for inquiring.

I dont bite I just nibble and wifey2b is the only one im allowed too nibble on.
Just ask her.

 

[strmrdr]

In all seriousness it does make me sick when people say that Christians cant run for president or be in office.
Substitute women or minority for Christian and its unacceptable but its OK too say it about Christians?
That's not right.

Is this the same country that my Dad fought for in ww2 and many relatives all the way back too the revolutionary war? Most of them were Christians.
Yet all the sudden all Christians cant hold office?
Whats next burning at the stake? Christians cant vote? White cross on clothes?
Burning churches?

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 1/7/2008 10:33:29 AM
Author: strmrdr
In all seriousness it does make me sick when people say that Christians cant run for president or be in office.
Substitute women or minority for Christian and its unacceptable but its OK too say it about Christians?

Strm - my comment is directly from experience. All of my family on my dad''s side are christians, and I mean, ALL , and NONE of them have taken my agnostic belief as acceptable. My grandmother defines all individuals as "believers" vs. "non-believers," and is under the impression that "I''ll come around eventually." You have NO idea how insulting that is for a person to not respect another''s beliefs. Or possibly you do as you feel this since you see Chritians as being bashed? It''s insulting for both of us in either position, but unless I can see Christians as cool about others not following the Christian faith, it would be unfair to have someone so strongly associated with one side being in charge and representing all of us here in America as we are made of many indivuals and many faiths in this day in age. It''s not the 1700s anymore!!!

My desire to have a non-preacher as president comes directly from my concern that him being in that position will further cement the belief that all people will be better off once converted to Christianity.

 

[Rank Amateur]

Maybe it's your family. Don't lump us all together.

My church is full of agnostics!!

 

[AGBF]

Did anyone read George McGovern's appeal that both President Bush and Vice-President Cheney be impeached for crimes and misdemeanors against the U.S. Constitution and the country including waging a war that was not declared by Congress and torturing prisoners in contravention of the Geneva Convention? It was in yesterday's (i.e. Sunday, January 6, 2008's "The Washington Post"). In it I learned that Senator McGovern was a former bomber pilot during World War II. At least he and Senator McCain are both veterans who stand against torture.

Deborah

 

[surfgirl]

Deborah, well I certainly support that movement! Do you have a link to that article? Thanks!

ETA: MC, well said woman, well said.

 

[movie zombie]

yep, read it, Deb.

movie zombie

ps nicely stated MC !

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 1/7/2008 11:24:25 AM
Author: MC
Strm - my comment is directly from experience. All of my family on my dad''s side are christians, and I mean, ALL , and NONE of them have taken my agnostic belief as acceptable. My grandmother defines all individuals as ''believers'' vs. ''non-believers,'' and is under the impression that ''I''ll come around eventually.'' You have NO idea how insulting that is for a person to not respect another''s beliefs. Or possibly you do as you feel this since you see Chritians as being bashed? It''s insulting for both of us in either position, but unless I can see Christians as cool about others not following the Christian faith, it would be unfair to have someone so strongly associated with one side being in charge and representing all of us here in America as we are made of many indivuals and many faiths in this day in age. It''s not the 1700s anymore!!!

My desire to have a non-preacher as president comes directly from my concern that him being in that position will further cement the belief that all people will be better off once converted to Christianity.

helloooooo your doing the same thing they are from the other side of the fence...
It isn''t right on either side....

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 1/7/2008 3:23:46 PM
Author: strmrdr
helloooooo your doing the same thing they are from the other side of the fence...
It isn't right on either side....

I said it is insulting for both of us. My point, which I apparently didn't make, is that in my experience, Christians have tried to convert me to their belief system. It's not a pleasant experience to be told that my views are wrong and that I should believe what another person does. I see how I AM judging right now, but my reasoning for stepping over boundries is to additionally state just because I am not a Christian, I have NEVER tried to transform my Christian family to agnostics. THAT is the hypocrisy and difference from my point of view. Christians complain about bashing, but often the Christian method of "bashing" non Christians is the same, but far more subtle approach in not accepting a person (fully) until they convert.

Religion is a NO win sitation. But, as I said it's unfair to have a highly religious person representing America. How will that look to leaders of other countries who follow another faith? This could lead to disaster.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 1/7/2008 1:12:52 PM
Author: surfgirl
Deborah, well I certainly support that movement! Do you have a link to that article?

I read it in a real (i.e. a hard copy) newspaper. I have tried to get a link to the on-line text, but I had to sign in to do so. If my link doesn''t work for you, go to the website for "The Washington Post" and search for "George McGovern". His piece will come up for you! If you have to create an account, do so. It''s free!

Deb

George McGovern Speaks Out