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Please check out the quote from a child and family counselor that I posted on the school thread about the mental health effects of sending children back under these circumstances.
Last edited:
Are you worried about the Coronavirus?
- Thread starter Snowdrop13
- Start date
Please check out the quote from a child and family counselor that I posted on the school thread about the mental health effects of sending children back under these circumstances.
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Yes - this. So much this. They're holding all the power over the lives of their employees and their families, and they know it and are wielding it in ever-more-crushing ways. And our governmental policies support it.
@TooPatient, @Slick1, and @missy - I totally agree; teachers are being treated as glorified babysitters here. As @YadaYadaYada mentioned, there are parents who are truly in a bind if their kids are not in school, but the appropriate solution is not to throw the health of teachers, staff members, the children themselves, and their families under the bus. This country is supposed to lead in innovation - surely there is a more innovative solution. And a definitely-imperfect-but-good-enough-to-get-us-through one. Certainly, as @YadaYadaYada mentioned, anyone who can possibly keep them home somehow should so that only the absolutely minimum number are there in person.
@Matata, I agree - it's inexcusable that, at this point in time, we haven't stepped up the production of testing supplies AND protective gear for medical workers and first responders. There are still hospitals where personnel are being told to reuse N-95 masks for a week because the hospital fears they won't have enough. Still.
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@Daisys and Diamonds you'll be pleased to hear this.
Victoria is in a hole right now but they have announced that are going for total elimination! Sounds like they learned their lesson!
We are not in NSW but the government has been bombarding us with every single detail of every venue right down to the time where exposure might have happened so I'm hoping it won't blow up.
Victoria is in a hole right now but they have announced that are going for total elimination! Sounds like they learned their lesson!
We are not in NSW but the government has been bombarding us with every single detail of every venue right down to the time where exposure might have happened so I'm hoping it won't blow up.
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Daisys and Diamonds
Super_Ideal_Rock
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And they're arresting people breaking their quarantine period.
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From the NYT. Copied and pasted for your viewing pleasure.
www.nytimes.com
“ A brief history of the past four months in America:
Experts: Don’t rush to reopen, this isn’t over.
Donald Trump: LIBERATE!
Covid-19: Wheee!
Trump officials: Here’s our opposition research on Anthony Fauci.
And we’re now faced with an agonizing choice: Do we reopen schools, creating risks of a further viral explosion, or do we keep children home, with severe negative effects on their learning?
None of this had to happen. Other countries stuck with their lockdowns long enough to reduce infections to rates much lower than those prevailing here; Covid-19 death rates per capita in the European Union are only a 10th those in the United States — and falling — while ours are rising fast. As a result, they’re in a position to reopen schools fairly safely.
PAUL KRUGMAN’S NEWSLETTER: Get a better understanding of the economy — and an even deeper look at what’s on Paul’s mind.
And the experience of the Northeast, the first major epicenter of the U.S. pandemic, shows that we could have achieved something similar here. Death rates are way down, although still higher than in Europe; on Saturday, for the first time since March, New York City reported zero Covid-19 deaths.
Would a longer lockdown have been economically sustainable? Yes.
It’s true that strong social distancing requirements led to high unemployment and hurt many businesses. But even America, with its ramshackle social safety net, was able to provide enough disaster relief — don’t call it stimulus! — to protect most of its citizens from severe hardship.
Thanks largely to expanded unemployment benefits, poverty didn’t soar during the lockdown. By some measures it may even have gone down.
True, there were holes in that safety net, and many people did suffer. But we could have patched those holes. Yes, emergency relief costs a lot of money, but we can afford it: The federal government has been borrowing huge sums, but interest rates have remained near historical lows.
Put it this way: At its most severe, the lockdown seems to have reduced G.D.P. by a little over 10 percent. During World War II, America spent more than 30 percent of G.D.P. on defense, for more than three years. Why couldn’t we absorb a much smaller cost for a few months?
So doing what was necessary to bring the coronavirus under control would have been annoying, but entirely feasible.
But that was the road not taken. Instead, many states not only rushed to reopen, they reopened stupidly. Instead of being treated as a cheap, effective way to fight contagion, face masks became a front in the culture war. Activities that posed an obvious risk of feeding the pandemic went unchecked: Large gatherings were permitted, bars reopened.
And the cost of those parties and open bars extends beyond the thousands of Americans who will be killed or suffer permanent health damage as a result of Covid-19’s resurgence. The botched reopening has also endangered something that, unlike drinking in groups, can’t be suspended without doing long-run damage: in-person education.
Some activities hold up fairly well when moved online. I suspect that there will be a lot fewer people flying cross-country to stare at PowerPoints than there were pre-Covid, even once we finally beat this virus.
Education isn’t one of those activities. We now have overwhelming confirmation of something we already suspected: For many, perhaps most students there is no substitute for actually being in a classroom.
But rooms full of students are potential Petri dishes, even if the young are less likely to die from Covid-19 than the old. Other countries have managed to reopen schools relatively safely — but they did so with much lower infection rates than currently prevail in America, and with adequate testing, which we still don’t have in many hot spots.
So we’re now facing a terrible, unnecessary dilemma. If we reopen in-person education, we risk feeding an out-of-control pandemic. If we don’t, we impair the development of millions of American students, inflicting long-term damage on their lives and careers.
And the reason we’re in this position is that states, cheered on by the Trump administration, rushed to allow large parties and reopen bars. In a real sense America drank away its children’s future.
Now what? At this point there are probably as many infected Americans as there were in March. So what we should be doing is admitting that we blew it, and doing a severe lockdown all over again — and this time listening to the experts before reopening. Unfortunately, it’s now too late to avoid disrupting education, but the sooner we deal with this the sooner we can get our society back on track.
But we don’t have the kind of leaders we need. Instead, we have the likes of Donald Trump and Ron DeSantis, Florida’s governor, politicians who refuse to listen to experts and never admit having been wrong.
So while there have been a few grudging policy adjustments, the main response we’re seeing to colossal policy failure is a hysterical attempt to shift the blame. Some officials are trying to besmirch Dr. Fauci’s reputation; others are diving into unhinged conspiracy theories.
As a result, the outlook is grim. This pandemic is going to get worse before it gets better, and the nation will suffer permanent damage.
”
Opinion | America Drank Away Its Children’s Future (Published 2020)
As the school year looms, the pandemic is still raging.
“ A brief history of the past four months in America:
Experts: Don’t rush to reopen, this isn’t over.
Donald Trump: LIBERATE!
Covid-19: Wheee!
Trump officials: Here’s our opposition research on Anthony Fauci.
And we’re now faced with an agonizing choice: Do we reopen schools, creating risks of a further viral explosion, or do we keep children home, with severe negative effects on their learning?
None of this had to happen. Other countries stuck with their lockdowns long enough to reduce infections to rates much lower than those prevailing here; Covid-19 death rates per capita in the European Union are only a 10th those in the United States — and falling — while ours are rising fast. As a result, they’re in a position to reopen schools fairly safely.
PAUL KRUGMAN’S NEWSLETTER: Get a better understanding of the economy — and an even deeper look at what’s on Paul’s mind.
And the experience of the Northeast, the first major epicenter of the U.S. pandemic, shows that we could have achieved something similar here. Death rates are way down, although still higher than in Europe; on Saturday, for the first time since March, New York City reported zero Covid-19 deaths.
Would a longer lockdown have been economically sustainable? Yes.
It’s true that strong social distancing requirements led to high unemployment and hurt many businesses. But even America, with its ramshackle social safety net, was able to provide enough disaster relief — don’t call it stimulus! — to protect most of its citizens from severe hardship.
Thanks largely to expanded unemployment benefits, poverty didn’t soar during the lockdown. By some measures it may even have gone down.
True, there were holes in that safety net, and many people did suffer. But we could have patched those holes. Yes, emergency relief costs a lot of money, but we can afford it: The federal government has been borrowing huge sums, but interest rates have remained near historical lows.
Put it this way: At its most severe, the lockdown seems to have reduced G.D.P. by a little over 10 percent. During World War II, America spent more than 30 percent of G.D.P. on defense, for more than three years. Why couldn’t we absorb a much smaller cost for a few months?
So doing what was necessary to bring the coronavirus under control would have been annoying, but entirely feasible.
But that was the road not taken. Instead, many states not only rushed to reopen, they reopened stupidly. Instead of being treated as a cheap, effective way to fight contagion, face masks became a front in the culture war. Activities that posed an obvious risk of feeding the pandemic went unchecked: Large gatherings were permitted, bars reopened.
And the cost of those parties and open bars extends beyond the thousands of Americans who will be killed or suffer permanent health damage as a result of Covid-19’s resurgence. The botched reopening has also endangered something that, unlike drinking in groups, can’t be suspended without doing long-run damage: in-person education.
Some activities hold up fairly well when moved online. I suspect that there will be a lot fewer people flying cross-country to stare at PowerPoints than there were pre-Covid, even once we finally beat this virus.
Education isn’t one of those activities. We now have overwhelming confirmation of something we already suspected: For many, perhaps most students there is no substitute for actually being in a classroom.
But rooms full of students are potential Petri dishes, even if the young are less likely to die from Covid-19 than the old. Other countries have managed to reopen schools relatively safely — but they did so with much lower infection rates than currently prevail in America, and with adequate testing, which we still don’t have in many hot spots.
So we’re now facing a terrible, unnecessary dilemma. If we reopen in-person education, we risk feeding an out-of-control pandemic. If we don’t, we impair the development of millions of American students, inflicting long-term damage on their lives and careers.
And the reason we’re in this position is that states, cheered on by the Trump administration, rushed to allow large parties and reopen bars. In a real sense America drank away its children’s future.
Now what? At this point there are probably as many infected Americans as there were in March. So what we should be doing is admitting that we blew it, and doing a severe lockdown all over again — and this time listening to the experts before reopening. Unfortunately, it’s now too late to avoid disrupting education, but the sooner we deal with this the sooner we can get our society back on track.
But we don’t have the kind of leaders we need. Instead, we have the likes of Donald Trump and Ron DeSantis, Florida’s governor, politicians who refuse to listen to experts and never admit having been wrong.
So while there have been a few grudging policy adjustments, the main response we’re seeing to colossal policy failure is a hysterical attempt to shift the blame. Some officials are trying to besmirch Dr. Fauci’s reputation; others are diving into unhinged conspiracy theories.
As a result, the outlook is grim. This pandemic is going to get worse before it gets better, and the nation will suffer permanent damage.
”
ItsMainelyYou
Ideal_Rock
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This is unacceptable and terrifying.
www.rawstory.com
CDC cuts off public information about hospital capacity: report
On Thursday, ProPublica's Charles Ornstein reported that the Centers for Disease Control web page displaying information about hospital capacity around the country has been disabled, cutting off the public from this information.The CDC has said that they are still holding on to this data — but...
www.rawstory.com
hedgehog93
Rough_Rock
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I’m in NSW and hoping this doesn’t blow up. We didn’t get to go away for our engagement/his proposing in April due to lockdown and we haven’t gone anywhere since, rescheduled for August. Now it’s 30 days away and we’ll probably be in lockdown again
. Hope you are keeping safe!- Joined
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This is unacceptable and terrifying.
CDC cuts off public information about hospital capacity: report
On Thursday, ProPublica's Charles Ornstein reported that the Centers for Disease Control web page displaying information about hospital capacity around the country has been disabled, cutting off the public from this information.The CDC has said that they are still holding on to this data — but...
Has this been reported by a reliable source???
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I think so..
Trump Administration Strips C.D.C. of Control of Coronavirus Data (Published 2020)
Hospitals have been ordered to bypass the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and send all patient information to a central database in Washington, raising questions about transparency.
Daisys and Diamonds
Super_Ideal_Rock
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I’m in NSW and hoping this doesn’t blow up. We didn’t get to go away for our engagement/his proposing in April due to lockdown and we haven’t gone anywhere since, rescheduled for August. Now it’s 30 days away and we’ll probably be in lockdown again
I hope NSW gets a handle on things quickly and these new clusters die out
it shows how one person can effect so many other people
Thank you, we are doing good here thanks to mandatory quareteen
Stay safe over there, we are all worried about you
chemgirl
Ideal_Rock
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If anyone is a Tommy Rivs fan check out his Instagram.
He has something wrong with his lungs and has been in the ICU for 3 weeks. They’re attempting a second biopsy right now to try and find out what’s going on. The first punctured his lung so this second biopsy means he will probably need to be on a ventilator for at least a week.
He tried to ride it out at home, even coughing up blood and some blood in urine. The covid test came back negative, but there is a strong possibility that is due to the longer than average time that it took for him to get help.
If it’s covid this terrifies me. This man is an endurance athlete. He doesn’t fall into any of the categories that would predispose him for a bad case.
He has something wrong with his lungs and has been in the ICU for 3 weeks. They’re attempting a second biopsy right now to try and find out what’s going on. The first punctured his lung so this second biopsy means he will probably need to be on a ventilator for at least a week.
He tried to ride it out at home, even coughing up blood and some blood in urine. The covid test came back negative, but there is a strong possibility that is due to the longer than average time that it took for him to get help.
If it’s covid this terrifies me. This man is an endurance athlete. He doesn’t fall into any of the categories that would predispose him for a bad case.
ItsMainelyYou
Ideal_Rock
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Yes.
I use Rawstory because it's a convenient aggregate website founded by Pulitzer winner David Cay Johnston. The story blurbs always link directly to source materials for verification.
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Thank you @Slick1 and @ItsMainelyYou .
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Yes - there have been several very fit competitive and recreational athletes that have become seriously ill or died, or found themselves struggling to recover enough to even go upstairs or get up to go to the bathroom, even weeks to months after first falling ill. This virus is really nothing to fool with; you could end up fine, but given the outcomes if you don't, I'm not going to roll those dice, especially at the ages DH and I are at and the conditions we deal with. I exercise very hard and am pretty fit, but I see no reason to believe that's going to protect me.
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I’m in NSW and hoping this doesn’t blow up. We didn’t get to go away for our engagement/his proposing in April due to lockdown and we haven’t gone anywhere since, rescheduled for August. Now it’s 30 days away and we’ll probably be in lockdown again
I think you'll be ok! I think you'll make it! They're going at the clusters pretty aggressively. Gladys wants you to go away and spend money on your trip so they're going to do their best to stomp this down.
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This is unacceptable and terrifying.
CDC cuts off public information about hospital capacity: report
On Thursday, ProPublica's Charles Ornstein reported that the Centers for Disease Control web page displaying information about hospital capacity around the country has been disabled, cutting off the public from this information.The CDC has said that they are still holding on to this data — but...
I hear Trump has cut off CDCs access to certain figures like the number of new deaths/infections and is now insisting all information goes to the white house (not to the CDC) and the white house will filter it and disseminate it.
Trump Administration Strips C.D.C. of Control of Coronavirus Data (Published 2020)
Hospitals have been ordered to bypass the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and send all patient information to a central database in Washington, raising questions about transparency.
Maybe this is part of what is happening to their webpages. It sounds like they no longer receive the data and get to choose to diseminate it themselves. Instead Trump now gets the covid data directly and chooses what he wants to pass onto the CDC. This would make the CDC basically much less powerful, and a much less reliable source of information. It would also give Trump much more leverage over the CDC and what they were reporting/displaying.
ItsMainelyYou
Ideal_Rock
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I hear Trump has cut off CDCs access to certain figures like the number of new deaths/infections and is now insisting all information goes to the white house (not to the CDC) and the white house will filter it and disseminate it.
Trump Administration Strips C.D.C. of Control of Coronavirus Data (Published 2020)
Hospitals have been ordered to bypass the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and send all patient information to a central database in Washington, raising questions about transparency.
Maybe this is part of what is happening to their webpages. It sounds like they no longer receive the data and get to choose to diseminate it themselves. Instead Trump now gets the covid data directly and chooses what he wants to pass onto the CDC. This would make the CDC basically much less powerful, and a much less reliable source of information. It would also give Trump much more leverage over the CDC and what they were reporting/displaying.
That is exactly what's happening. Trump wants to control the narrative; if he can't do it outright by denying testing and linking that to even the existence of infection of/to the populace he'll leave us completely in the dark to die. I would have said that was alarmist before.
I believe that is exactly what's taking place now. He is willing kill us for election prospects and he's no longer keeping up any pretenses.
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Yes - this. Just when I think it can't get more terrifying and authoritarian here.......it does.
ItsMainelyYou
Ideal_Rock
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It is finally time for all voters to hear the klaxons going off, because they are. He's been trying to start his 'Reichstag fire' whether by lack of information or fear for some time. It has become blatant with Covid. The newest parallel attempt is what's happening with unmarked federal troops in Oregon. He(and the people behind him) wants full control. These events may seem disparate but are all inextricably linked. He will do anything to achieve it.
Gov. Brown on federal officers in Portland for protests: Trump’s troops not the answer
Mayor Ted Wheeler said the actions of a federal officer who fired a crowd control weapon and seriously injured a protester were unacceptable.
www.kgw.com
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Many people home school their children with great success and with no mental damage. I actually think that there is positive results mentally from home schooling. I don't think risking community spread and endangering educators for this reason is valid.
voce
Ideal_Rock
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@ItsMainelyYou @OboeGal I would put nothing past the unprofessional, unethical antics of someone like Trump. My biggest worry is that he won't step down even if he loses the November election. I think if he's doing low enough in the polls he'll try to instate some emergency order so he can remain in power to cover up his and his family's misconduct.
voce
Ideal_Rock
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For what reason are you referring to?
Home school is not a viable option for many. You want people to quit full-time jobs to come home and work for kids instead? Education is quite a lot of work. The only people I've known who are happy home schooling their kids are educators themselves; not every kid is easy to home school, and not every parent has the patience or the qualifications to home school.
Demon
Brilliant_Rock
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I'm not a proponent of home schooling, but I've been wondering why we never hear of the mental damage from it. But keep them home because of the virus, and you'll damage them mentally.
Even though no one knows how long this will last.
ItsMainelyYou
Ideal_Rock
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Trump Can’t Just Refuse to Leave Office
We have a lot of things to worry about in the next eight months. This isn’t one of them.
An electoral rout will save us all the embarrassment. That's why it's important that no American sits this one out.
Volute
Rough_Rock
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He can't, as written into our Constitution. Whether he likes it or not on Jan.20th at noon, if Biden wins, he becomes a squatter. He will probably try to sue to contest several states if it's a close-ish call. That will only delay the inevitable for a little while. There is other tiresome skullduggery he can attempt. It will fail.Trump Can’t Just Refuse to Leave Office
We have a lot of things to worry about in the next eight months. This isn’t one of them.slate.com
An electoral rout will save us all the embarrassment. That's why it's important that no American sits this one out.
Yes, THIS. The presidency essentially expires here through various mechanisms, and the new president steps in. I’m much more concerned about cheating.
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I have friends in TX who chose to homeschool in past by choice and started doing it again when the online options offered by the school were not satisfactory. Both parents work full time jobs. They have 4 kids ranging from 5 to 10 years in age. They also had a foster during much of that time (4 year old) and have been in court multiple times fighting to keep her safe. They don't have any more time/energy than other parents, but they made it work.
Clearly, not every situation can be made to work for homeschool. I just can't help but think that if everyone who can make it work, even if it is exhausting, does so then those who have to be in person will be safer.
voce
Ideal_Rock
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He can't, as written into our Constitution. Whether he likes it or not on Jan.20th at noon, if Biden wins, he becomes a squatter. He will probably try to sue to contest several states if it's a close-ish call. That will only delay the inevitable for a little while. There is other tiresome skullduggery he can attempt. It will fail.Trump Can’t Just Refuse to Leave Office
We have a lot of things to worry about in the next eight months. This isn’t one of them.
An electoral rout will save us all the embarrassment. That's why it's important that no American sits this one out.
I'm not talking about him getting booted after he loses. I'm genuinely worried he's going to circumvent the elections altogether by 1) letting coronavirus get out of hand and cancelling elections or 2) postponing elections due to some other emergency situation he creates, like a premature war with N. Korea, Iran, China.
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