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Attention Kenny - Macro Photography help

kroshka

kroshka

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 30, 2004
Messages
566
Kenny, I needed your help with FCD macro photography. I have browsed through the posts you made about macro photography and I understand that I need DSLR camera + Bellows + Extenstion tube + macro lens

I have Nikon D50 (It is 5-6 years old- do you think this will work? The lens that came with it does not have aperture control (I have only used it on auto mode, I don't know anything about manual focus etc)

Bellows:
I am looking for PB-4 bellows that you recommended, but I cannot find them on keh.com or bhphotovideo.com. I found one on ebay, would you recommend buying this one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nikon-PB-4-Bellows-/261124537639?pt=US_Lens_Adapters_Mounts_Tubes&hash=item3ccc3c3d27

Extension tube -
Can you also recommend which extension tube to buy?

I found this one on BH - http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/824797-REG/Dot_Line_DL_MEX_N_Manual_Extension_Tube_Set.html

Lens:
I was thinking about buying Nikon 105 mm micro lens. Will that do the job or would you recommend something else?

I have a small light box and tripod. Is there anything else that I need to buy?

Sorry I have so many questions. Thanks for your help.
 
Hi Kroshka

You may want to post a quick post over in hangout telling Kenny that you have a question for him over in CS - he might see it sooner that way.
 
Sorry but the D50 body will not work without a lens directly attached to it.
The reason is, instead of having an aperture ring that you can rotate with your fingers (like old fashioned lenses), the aperture is controlled by a motor in the lens.
The body tells the lens' aperture where to go via the electrical contacts.
A bellows between the lens and body blocks the contacts.
The body could not talk to the lens so the lens would remain permanently stuck at the smallest aperture, making it worthless for macro work or any photography PLUS the body itself simply will not even operate if a lens is not on it.
You'll just see a warning saying, "PUT A LENS ON ME, YOU SILLY SILLY GIRL!"
(It does not recognize the bellows as a lens since the bellows has no electrical contacts.)

Sorry.
Increased flexibility is one way Nikon gets you to buy the more expensive bodies.
I believe the current cheapest body that will work is the D7000 which costs $1,200 for just a body, no lens.

One cheaper solution is to buy an used high end Nikon body like the D200, D300 or D300s at KEH.com.
All three of these will work with a bellows between the body and the lens.
I just sold my old D200 last week for $350; I paid $1,700 for it new. ;(

Next I'll post about the lens.
 
The macro lens...

Generally, the longer the focal length the better.
For example 200mm is better than 50mm because 200mm gives you more working distance.
That means when focused for maximum enlargement the 200mm will be further away from the diamond than a 50mm lens would be.

The lens being further away from the diamond is good for two reasons:
1. The the diamond will reflect back less of the black lens/camera/tripod.
2. There is more room to get light into the front of the diamond.

While the Nikkor micro 200mm f4 is the dream macro lens it's VERY expensive, $1800.
Plus it is so big and heavy that it must be mounted directly to the tripod, instead of the body.
But the bellows must be attached to the tripod.
Hence a 200mm cannot be used with the bellows since you cannot mount both the bellows AND the lens to the tripod.
The 200mm/bellows/body system would be too heavy to mount only the bellows OR the lens to the tripod and let the rest of the system just hang there.

Hence, the 105mm is the best choice since it's the longest macro lens usable on the bellows.

I recommend the lens that I use, an old style manual Nikkor 105mm f2.8.
(BTW, Nikon still makes this 30-year old version today, new, special order, for $776 and a several week wait.)
http://www.nikonusa.com/en/Nikon-Products/Product/Camera-Lenses/1455/Micro-NIKKOR-105mm-f%252F2.8.html

There are a few versions made over the last 30 years, since Nikon updated them every decade or so.
I like the ones old enough to NOT have autofocus or vibration reduction and have an aperture ring.
It will cost around $250 - 350 at KEH, but they do not currently have one in stock, but check tomorrow since inventory turns over fast.

If KEH has a newer AF Nikkor D 105 f2.8 that would work too.
It has autofocus which is a waste of money since you will ALWAYS want to use manual focus for macro gem work but at least you can switch the lens to manual focus - but D-series means it does have an aperture ring.
Manual focus is easy; just look into the camera and turn the lens till it is in focus.

Note do not buy the Nikkor 105mm f2.5 because it is NOT a macro lens.

BTW even if you have the money for a new 105mm f2.8 with vibration reduction do not buy it (thought I'd LOVE to have vibration reduction for diamond photography).
The VR needs electricity from the contacts and once again the bellows blocks the contacts.

Next, the bellows.
 
Yikes, this is getting more complicated than I thought....lol. Shoot, so I missed buying from you by a week? Drat! Waiting to read what else you have to say so I can try to figure out how much to save and what I need to buy :read:

I really appreciate your thorough responses :) Thanks a bunch!
 
I used a Nikon PB-6 bellows for 30 years and loved it.
I sold it recently and got a PB-4 for the tilt and shift movements.
That means when several diamonds are on a table you can lean the lens so the ones in the front and back are more in focus.

When shooting only one gem the PB-6 is fine.

KEH currently has a PB-6 for only $123 because someone engraved ID info on it, maybe a driver's license or the name of the company that owned it.
Since KEH graded it Excellent the engraving must only be cosmetic and not affect the function.

http://www.keh.com/camera/Nikon-Manual-Focus-Bellows/1/sku-NK19007499999E?r=FE

I would only buy such a specialized thing from KEH, no eBay.
KEH has the expertise to grade the condition and a strong reputation with professionals to protect.

You also have to buy one Nikon PK-13 extension ring to put between the body and the bellows.
 
One other thingie that's super groovy is a reversed wide angle lens.
It will get you even closer (greater enlargement) than the bellows and 105mm.

But you have ZERO flexibility.
You can't adjust the amount of magnification at all.
There is only one size, unlike the bellows which is like a dream when it comes to flexibility.

A reversed wide angle lens is not a cheaper alternative to a bellows.
It is an additional tool to get ultra close ups, like laser inscriptions.

You need two things.
A Nikon BR-2 Reversing Ring, which I just learned may be discontinued.
An old Nikkor wide angle lens like a 21mm f2.8.

Here's a used ring for $5
http://www.keh.com/camera/Nikon-Manual-Focus-Close-up-and-Bellow-Accessories/1/sku-NK200090189010?r=FE
New they costed around $45.

Here's a good cheap lens for reversing.
It's 28mm but will work (find a 24mm or better yet a 21mm if you can since it will get you even more enlargement)

http://www.keh.com/camera/Nikon-Manual-Focus-Fixed-Focal-Length-Lenses/1/sku-NK060102006160?r=FE
 
Oh Kenny, since these things seem so hard to come by, I just pulled the trigger on that bellow you suggested even though I have nothing to test it in.....lol. See how much blind faith I have in you :twirl:

I see that the Nikon D7000 is available on Amazon for $897.00.

http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-16-2MP-DX-Format-Digital-3-0-Inch/dp/B0042X9LC4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1353890251&sr=8-1&keywords=d7000

Would this camera work and would you recommend it? If so, then I just have to worry about finding the lens and the extension rings.
 
Yes, the D7000 will work with a bellows.
It is the body I use plus it does something else I'll post about in my next post, tethering.

I would buy it at Adorama or B&Hphoto since you can trust them.
Amazon is like eBay in that it is a marketplace of a zillion sellers, some of which may be selling goods with no USA warranty or refurbished bodies.
Adorama and B&H have superb return policies.

Adorama has the same price you quoted and you are sure to get a US warranty.
http://www.adorama.com/INKD7000.html


BTW, before you pull the trigger let me tell you about one more thing.
Sensor size.

The D7000, D50 D200 D300 D300s all have DX sensors.
DX is a size of sensor.
The larger the sensor the better and it has nothing to do with how many megapixels there are.

Nikon makes DSLRs in two sensor sizes, DX and FX.
FX is larger and delivers superb low-light performance.
All of Nikons bodies from $2,100 to $8,000 have the larger FX sensor.

Before you spend $900 of Nikon's most expensive DX body with 16.2 MP, do you want to consider spending $2100 on their cheapest FX body the new 24 MP D600?

If not then the D7000 will serve you well.
Personally I'm considering moving from a D700 up to a D600 for the lager FX sensor and 24 MP instead of the D700s DX 16.2 MP sensor.

I know. I know. It never ends. :roll:
Don't let me bankrupt you, because I will. :naughty:
 
You are jumping into a wonderful field.
It has its challenges and fantastic rewards.
One challenge is seeing well what you are focusing on.

Tethering makes is easier.
Tethering is plugging the camera into a TV set or monitor.
The D7000 has "LIVE VIEW" so it can tether; the d50, and the D200, D300 D300s cannot; they are too old.
The new $2,100 D600 with the X-sensor can tether also.

Besides a TV set or monitor, you have to buy a HDMI cable for around $30.
Made sure one side of the cable is the standard large HDMI plug, but the other side is mini-HDMI or I think it's called C size - just bring the camera to the store with you and try it.

It is wonderful to see a big image of what you are focusing on on a big screen instead of the little 3" screen on the camera or bending over to look into the viewfinder.
Any TV with an HDMI jack will work.

screen_shot_2012-11-25_at_0.png
 
Oh Kenny, thank you for the plethora of info. Money goes like water doesn't it? And FCD's, such an expensive hobby to collect. Perhaps in the years to come between us and some of the other FCD collectors here on Pricescope we could showcase our own "Aurora" collection.

I guess I can pull the trigger, crazy as it may sound on the 28mm lens you gave the link for, since there is no 21mm available, any idea how often these become available on keh? Would you recommend I buy the 28mm or hold out for a 21mm? Also, it looks like there is no 105mm f2.8 available, so I would be a bit of sitting duck anyhow until one was found. I feel a little relieved to have secured secured a bellows. Uh, and I can't forget I still need extension rings - any links for that at a good price?

I also now need to consider the D7000 or D600, because my D50 is now kind of useless for this endeavor, I wonder if it isn't better to invest in the D600 because before I blink, the D7000 will be old and somewhat obsolete?
 
kroshka|1353889250|3315327 said:
I just saw this bundle for the D600 on Costco, what do you think of the lenses it comes with and the price for such a bundle? Costo has a 90 day return policy too.

Edited to add the link!
http://www.costco.com/Nikon-D600-Full-Frame-DSLR-Camera-2-Lens-Bundle.product.100012382.html?catalogId=10701&langId=-1&keyword=Nikon+D600&storeId=10301
Click to expand...

Confession time.
I have that bundle right now.
I'm trying it out but I will probably return it within the 90 days because I already have a bag full of old lenses that are FX format and are faster than the two zooms this comes with and I do not like the break point of the two zoom lenses being at 70mm.
24-70 and 70-200 breaks right where I use the camera for parties to shoot people.
I'd be changing lenses a lot and that sucks.
I'd rather have one lens that covers 24-120mm or the 28-300.
Not having to change lenses is a blessing, plus it lowers the dust that will get onto your sensor.

http://www.nikonusa.com/en/Nikon-Products/Product/Camera-Lenses/2193/AF-S-NIKKOR-24-120mm-f%252F4G-ED-VR.html

http://www.nikonusa.com/en/Nikon-Products/Product/Camera-Lenses/2191/AF-S-NIKKOR-28-300mm-f%252F3.5-5.6G-ED-VR.html

Also these lenses are not as fast as the three f2.8 zoom lenses, aka Nikon's Holy Trinity, 14-24, 24-70 and 70-200. ($6000 of glass)
If you've never used fast lenses like f2.8, f2 or f1.4 you won't know what you're missing and may be very happy with the two lenses this kit comes with.

Plus both of the lenses in Costco's kit are slow and dark compared to what I'm used to.
If you are not used to faster lenses they may be fine.

Don't be afraid to spend the BIG bucks on the glass.
You will use it for decades on several bodies.

Another route is to not buy any zoom lenses, just 4 very good "prime" lenses, say a 24, 50, 85, and 200 as fast as you can afford.
 
kroshka|1353890174|3315337 said:
I know you said no ebay, but would this lens work with the D7000 or D600 for the macro setup?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nikon-Micro-Nikkor-105mm-F-2-8D-AF-Lens-Near-Mint-Made-in-Japan-w-Extras-/150950540029?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item23255a72fd#rpdId
Click to expand...

No eBay for Kenny's comfort level.
You may be more trusting or more of a risk taker than I.

Yes it will work with both bodies.
It was made before DSLR bodies with the small DX sensor so the D7000s smaller sensor will "see" only the very middle of the circle of light (which is large enough to also fill up the larger FX sensor in the D600 body.)

It also has Kenko extension tubes.
I'm a Nikon-snob, but I think they would work fine, though are probably plastic and not as sturdy as real Nikon tubes, which are all metal.
For better stability I'd only use one tube, the shortest that allows the body to connect to the bellows.

It's up to you as eBay is risky but if it is what is says it is it will work well.
Again you are paying perhaps $100 to $150 extra for auto focus and vibration reduction, neither of which will work on a bellows.
An older manual lens with no VR would be cheaper, but perhaps take time to find.
 
I'd have no problem trusting a known vendor like Leibish or KEH when they also use eBay.
I didn't know KEH used eBay.
I'm not with it at all.
 
kenny|1353888196|3315301 said:
Personally I'm considering moving from a D700 up to a D600 for the lager FX sensor and 24 MP instead of the D700s DX 16.2 MP sensor.
Click to expand...

Correction... this should read, "from a D7000 up to a D600".
 
Hey Kenny,

Just an update. I decided to try out the D600 as well. I'm still looking for the PK13 extension rings for a good price and the Nikkor 105mm f2.8 lens. Please point out any links for the extension rings if you have them. I've already purchased the bellow, reversal ring and 28mm lens you suggested.

Several used 105mm f2.8 lenses popped up on KEH, however they have different prices and most don't have any detailed descriptions. Any recommendation on which listing is best?

With regards to the D600, are you concerned at all about the dust problem in the sensor - I've read in a few places that people are complaining about dust collecting on the sensor and the only way to clean it is to get it serviced.

kroshka
 
Yes I read about the D600 dust on sensor thing on dpreview, and it is a concern.
Nikon is being buttheads by not admitting the problem and like many Japanese companies will probably be secretive about fixing it.
That leaves the internet to guess when the new ones do not have the problem.
BTW, IMHO there is a very small chance the problem is not real but is just Canon fanbois trolling us.
Nikon fanbois have done the same thing.
But I will stay tuned to dpreviews and nikonrumors for updates.
You only need one PK-13 and I'd buy it new from adorama or B&Hphoto since it's not expensive and the only place I'll buy used gear from is KEH, adorama and B&Hphoto.
http://www.adorama.com/NKPK13.html#used

Yes! that 105mm f2.8 is the perfect lens for macro work with bellows.
Notice it has a knob on the side of the lens barrel.
On some lenses when pointed straight down, gravity pulls the focusing front of the lens down.
The knob is to lock the focus IF this happens; it never happens with mine but perhaps it will after tons and tons of use.
This is nice and unfortunately is not included on some new Nikkor lenses, which need it.

Next, I recommend you get a Nikon HS-14 lens hood.
It prevents stray off-axis light (which you WILL get from a light box) from entering the lens and bouncing around and making the darkest blacks turn gray - this is called ghosting.
With the lens hood your pics will have better contrast and shadows that are as dark as they are supposed to be.

It's not expensive or not complicated so I'd have no problem buying it used, even from eBay.
I do hope you have a heavy tripod, if not consider one or at least hang weight from the bottom of the center column.

nikon-hs-14.png
 
Kenny- Photographer of FCD's Extraordinaire, I have finally acquired everything I need (at least I think so). Sad to say, my skills are still horrible. However, I'm posting this example here to get more tips and direction from you on how to make it better.

For my setup - just about everything you recommended.... :appl:
Nikon D600 with PB4 Bellow, Nikor manual 105mm lens, PK13 extension ring, and the hood along with the lighting set that you had suggested previously as well.

It doesn't help that I was pretty clueless from the get go, but I'm learning so please be patient with me :)

What aperture should I be using? Help, how to photograph this better? Also, it appears that the dust issue exists and I'm seeing several dust spots on photos. Did you end up keeping returning yours?

kroshka

newgreen.jpg
 
Hi Krosha.
Congrats on the progress!

Yes I'm keeping the D600, but haven't had time to shoot FCDS yet. :Up_to_something:

Don't be discouraged.
I LOVE how macrophotography is challenging, you need good gear and then the fun starts.
I see every shot as a learning experience.
There is nothing magic; everything makes sense.

Let's start.
I'll make a few posts, one for each point.

First, it is screaming out for post-processing, or post.
That is adjusting all the levels like exposure, highlights, shadows, contrast, definition, sharpness, saturation, white balance etc.
I do this for every pic I take even with a fine camera.
This surprises many people.
They think there is something sacred about what comes out of a camera.
Not so.

I'm still using iPhoto, which comes free on every Mac, but Adobe Photoshop is even better but several hundred dollars.
Adobe also makes a pared-down Photoshop called Elements for around $90.
I bought that but haven't installed it yet.

Here I dragged your pic into iPhoto and processed it a bit on the right:



With your fine camera some of this can happen in the camera.
You can retake the pic but use exposure compensation of 1 2 or 3 exposures to make it brighter.

Keep in mind this is not point and shoot land.
This is the land where you learn, learn, learn and control stuff.

before_and_after_post-processing.png
 
After I brightened it up I noticed what looked like a Q-Tip hair or lint on top of the black carbon inclusion around 3:00.

I retouched that out.

One bad thing about good equipment is it makes dust VERY noticeable.
You can clean the FCDs better or retouch later.

I clean by soaking in Isopropyl alcohol then using several Q-Tips to dry each FCD.
Then a quick blow with a camera lens blower may get the last of the dust.

camera-blower.jpg
 
Next you asked about the f stop and focus.

I compose and focus at f2.8.
That gives me precise focus since at f2.8 the lens is providing the most shallow depth of field.
But then I rotate the aperture ring to f8 or f11 to take the picture.
If you go to f16, f22 or f32 you would get more depth of field but another kind of distortion, diffraction, starts to soften the entire image.

I focus on the girdle.
Here's why...
At all apertures cameras are sharpest exactly where you focused, but the focus range extends both in front of and behind the plane of focus somewhat - but not equally.
The focus extends behind the plane of focus about twice the depth that it does in front of it.
Since the girdle is usually place around one third of the way down from the table it is the perfect place to focus if you want to get everything from the table to the culet in focus.
 
Next, about focus on cushions, radiant cuts etc ...

Unlike rounds, and emerald cut and asscher, the facet pattern of these makes light bounce around several times before exiting out the top.

This means that some of the virtual facets you see are the result of light having traveled MUCH further than the light from other facets.
That means you are effectively trying to focus on points further away than the culet.

Now it's hard enough to get everything from the table and the culet in focus at these enormous magnifications, let alone points behind the culet.

What I'm trying to say is don't expect every facet to be in focus on such cuts.

BTW what are the specs of that lovely green FCD?
 
Keep your camera on Aperture priority mode (You pick the aperture and let the camera decide on the shutter speed).
Use the $20 ML-L3 Nikon wireless remote to take the pic.
In your D600's Shooting Menu set the Remote control mode to Mup, Remote mirror-up.
This requires you to press the remote control twice.
The first time flips up the mirror and the second time takes the pic.
Wait several seconds between pressing the remote to let vibrations from the mirror flipping up to die down.

Set your ISO as low as possible for minimum noise.
100 is ideal, but it may result in very long exposures.
Long exposures are no problem if you are on a solid surface.
My house is old and the floor is creaky and a big truck driving by can actually blur a pic at the highest magnifications.
You have a very fine full frame body and one of the things you paid for is fine low-noise performance in low light.
Light falls off a great deal when you move the lens away from the body with a bellows.

ISO is how sensitive the body is to light.
All other things being equal here are the shutter speeds that would result from various ISO settings:

ISO - Shutter Speed
100 - 1/30 of a second
200 - 1/60
400 - 1/125
800 - 1/250

So you can see higher ISO settings permit short shutter speeds for less chance of blur.
But again the cleanest (with minim electronic noise in the shadows) images will result from ISO 100.
 
Your camera gives you the option of shooting in these modes:
JPEG BASIC
JPEG FINE
JPEG NORMAL
RAW

Always shoot in RAW.
Unlike JPEG, RAW is not compressed so RAW captures more detail in the shadows and highlights that you can recover in post.

Later in post you can save copies in JPEG, or better yet PNG, for uploading to PS or sending to friends since the RAW files are huge and cannot be opened by the software that many people have.

Do you have a PC or a Mac?
Which software, if any, do you use now for post?

Very often serious photographers buy two softwares, one like Photoshop and another for handing and organized the many files you eventually build up.
For the later the most popular is Adobe Lightroom.
 
Amazing, just amazing. Kenny, you've just proved what a labor of love it is. You lost me at Q-tips for cleaning off the gems :nono: It is why you are good at what you do and why your photos are works of art.
 
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