Average vs Awesome Paraiba Tourmaline

[TristanC]

Hmm it sounds odd. As a rule, if the stone cost that much, having a report would make a lot of sense unless it would lead to a devaluation of the gem vs the price he could charge. Even then he could always not provide the report. So it just seems odd.

I can't quite figure paraibas. I love them, but they are so expensive especially if they are of good/known provenance that ownership of fine specimens is beyond reasonable limits in many cases, but the desire to own average specimens is severely diminished for me. So it would be a case of just watching youtube I guess...

 

[chrono]

There are just too many red flags with regards to the vendor that I would be unwilling to assume that many risks, especially for such a high priced item. Not only that, he seems to be on the pushy side, bringing out the clinched "If you don't buy/keep this stone, I can sell it to someone else for $X dollars more." It just doesn't sit right with me.

 

[Barrett]

LOL..."I can sell it to someone else for $X dollars more"
...well by god why wouldn't any sane person do that? Why sell it for less when you can get more for it someplace else.
..red flags!!

 

[Pandora II]

LOL..."I can sell it to someone else for $X dollars more"
...well by god why wouldn't any sane person do that? Why sell it for less when you can get more for it someplace else.
..red flags!!

Actually I've seen that happen. I was asked by a friend to go and check out a ring that a friend of hers was considering buying as an e-ring. It was a 4.5ct emerald cut unheated blue sapphire (with lab report) and was seriously underpriced - around 30% of the price it should have been. I went to see it, spent a long time with the vendor looking at some of his other stones and told him that he had massively underpriced the piece.

He agreed and showed me the ticket on the item which was now double the price. However he had agreed the other price with the couple. It would have been in his interest if I had called them and told them not to buy it as he could have easily sold the ring for 3 or 4 times what he was asking. However, he was prepared to honour his agreement with them.


TL - I had noticed that the OP hadn't said that she would pay for the report. In this specific case I think it's odd that a dealer doesn't already have a report on such a high ticket item, but wanted to point out that in general a vendor will expect the prospective buyer to cover the cost of a lab report.

If a stone already has one then you can guarantee that the cost will have been worked into the asking price.

From what the OP says, the vendor was prepared to have her send the stone to a lab and to extend the time window to allow for this. He just wasn't interested in doing so himself. Strikes me that it's a bit odd not to negotiate on that which makes me wonder if he hasn't had a few enquiries about the stone at the new asking price.

 

[LD]

Forget the report for a minute.

Is it top colour? Highly unlikely from all the photos shown.

Why buy it? At this price, you should only consider buying it if you LOVE it and are happy to love it despite whatever grading it may have. Forget anything else. A report with a grading won't help you to love it. If you're looking for a top quality Paraiba this is unlikely to be it but you'll struggle to find a 4ct stone of top quality in any event. Is this a decent Paraiba? Yes it's decent (if the picture reflects it accurately) although creative lighting has been used in the Ebay advert which makes me hesitant.

What will a report add to the sale/purchase? Forgive me if I'm being thick here but the colour grading isn't THE most important issue with a Paraiba Tourmaline. With a Paraiba you need not only colour but glow and that is never reported on a lab report.

If you were a vendor sitting on a top quality 4ct stone that would be in high demand would you (a) sell it on Ebay and (b) have to use bully boy tactics in an attempt to secure a sale?

To put this into perspective (and TL/Amguy please chime in with your experiences), I started collecting this particular stone many many many years ago. Good quality pieces were readily available at prices that you could happily afford. I must have seen over 500 pieces (that's a very conservativve estimate) and out of those I've kept about 30 or so. Of the 30, I would only say I have 3 of what I consider to be top quality. So out of the 500 +, I've only ever seen 3 of top quality. So, even then, top quality stones didnt come around often! So, don't give up the search but please take my advice and see if you can see a few before you make your decision. I have no idea whether you can visit Pala International but maybe you could and see what they have available - at least then you can compare like for like.

 

[Meezermom]

I'm seeing red flags here - he wants "big bucks" for that stone, but he's resisting sending it out to a reputable lab for a measly $138.00? Don't walk, run from this deal.

 

[mimi72]

Really good comments, I appreciate everyone's input. I really don't believe the seller was dishonest or even pushy, but misinformed certainly about the value of the full AGL report. As I read their website, it seems he is more the business guy and another brother is a GIA gemologist so I probably should have dealt with him. Oh well. In the end, I easily could have just had it shipped to me so I see it, or offered to pay for the AGL prestige report if he sent it out, or again he was ok with me sending it for the report and then returning the stone if I wasn't satisfied. When I opted out of the purchase, he did not try to talk me out of it at all. In the end I guess I just got cold feet and didn't want to kiss goodbye to 20Gs. I'm like that - decisionally incapacitated. But sometimes risks yield rewards, right?! Lots of us have gotten what we consider really good deals on stones, and of course there is always a seller on the other side of those transactions!

Anyhoo...before this all started, I was planning on having my e-ring upgrade stone set by Leon Mege, so I'll go back to focusing on that project (maybe feeling more comfortable about it, with a non-depleted bank acct).

 

[T L]

Forget the report for a minute.

Is it top colour? Highly unlikely from all the photos shown.

Why buy it? At this price, you should only consider buying it if you LOVE it and are happy to love it despite whatever grading it may have. Forget anything else. A report with a grading won't help you to love it. If you're looking for a top quality Paraiba this is unlikely to be it but you'll struggle to find a 4ct stone of top quality in any event. Is this a decent Paraiba? Yes it's decent (if the picture reflects it accurately) although creative lighting has been used in the Ebay advert which makes me hesitant.

What will a report add to the sale/purchase? Forgive me if I'm being thick here but the colour grading isn't THE most important issue with a Paraiba Tourmaline. With a Paraiba you need not only colour but glow and that is never reported on a lab report.

If you were a vendor sitting on a top quality 4ct stone that would be in high demand would you (a) sell it on Ebay and (b) have to use bully boy tactics in an attempt to secure a sale?

To put this into perspective (and TL/Amguy please chime in with your experiences), I started collecting this particular stone many many many years ago. Good quality pieces were readily available at prices that you could happily afford. I must have seen over 500 pieces (that's a very conservativve estimate) and out of those I've kept about 30 or so. Of the 30, I would only say I have 3 of what I consider to be top quality. So out of the 500 +, I've only ever seen 3 of top quality. So, even then, top quality stones didnt come around often! So, don't give up the search but please take my advice and see if you can see a few before you make your decision. I have no idea whether you can visit Pala International but maybe you could and see what they have available - at least then you can compare like for like.

I've seen very fine Brazilian paraiba's, much like this one, from the same seller but at a gem show.

http://www.africagems.com/brazilian-paraiba-314.html

I would say that some of my cuprians do glow, but they are not top quality, although I did get them at very affordable prices. These stones are also commonly fracture filled, so beware of that as well. I just noticed the AGL report, why is the stone so unsaturated on the report photo?

I wouldn't get too hung up on cuprian or paraiba tourmalines. You can find non-copper bearing indicolites that are just as pretty, and a lot less expensive, like this comparable 4.6 carat trillion. At $3K, I am willing to take the risk, and this is a reputable seller.

http://www.africagems.com/tourmaline-blue-green-ja250.html

 

[mimi72]

TL, If you had seen the AGL report, and noted the lower purchase price/ct that what is in the ebay listing, would it have changed any of your advice/opinion on the stone?

 

[T L]

TL, If you had seen the AGL report, and noted the lower purchase price/ct that what is in the ebay listing, would it have changed any of your advice/opinion on the stone?

Probably not, unless I had a lot of money to burn.

Before I would ever spend that kind of money, this is what my requirements would be

1) The seller would have to send it to AGL for a comprehensive quality report, and the report would have to have the correct overall quality for the pricepoint/gem species/treatment level/etc. . .

2) I would like to see it in person first.

3) The seller would have to accomodating and not pushy (not saying this one is like that though).

4) The seller would have to have an established and good reputation.

 

[LD]

If you want a much much cheaper alternative why don't you consider an Apatite? Some are sold as Paraiba Apatite and actually the colour is very very good for a fraction of the price! The problem with Apatite is that it's very soft but for an occasional ring it's ok.

Here's an Apatite next to a not very good cuprian Tourmaline but it gives you an indication of the similarity. The pendant is an Apatite. They lack the "glow" but in real life the colour is very striking and does stand out!