Avoid French stuff

[Rook]

Wow, what started this pissing contest. Which thread was it, I feel blind reading this.

Off topic, (or really on topic), I too disagree with the way France and other countries have handled this war, but I think it is difficult to judge the people for the acts of the government. For those of you against the war, would you like to be judged by Bush's actions? For those for the war, would you like to be judge for Clinton's?

I travelled to France quite a few years ago with a group of students (all french language students.) We visited Paris as well as the northern valley. While most of those with me hated the french for there rudeness, I found them to be very pleasent and accomodating. It took me a few days into the trip to figure out why there was such a discrepancy between my view and that of those with me. It was because I attempted to speak french the entire time, while my counter parts only spoke english. (Did I mention these were student of the french language.)

I can understand the french being rude. How nice would you be if a french person, or chinese person walked up to you and spoke french or chinese, and then was mad at you because you did not speak their language, in your country?

From what I saw, most American tourist were very egotistic and rude to the french people, which in turn caused the french to be rude.

Again, I do not agree with the actions of the French goverment as of late, but this was my experiance with the french people.

 

[AGBF]

On 4/11/2003 7:47:11 AM Rook wrote:


I travelled to France quite a few years ago with a group of students (all french language students.) We visited Paris as well as the northern valley. While most of those with me hated the french for there rudeness, I found them to be very pleasent and accomodating. It took me a few days into the trip to figure out why there was such a discrepancy between my view and that of those with me. It was because I attempted to speak french the entire time, while my counter parts only spoke english. (Did I mention these were student of the french language.)


----------------

I speak French (well, albeit imperfectly) and have lived in France. I have not generally found the French people rude. On the other hand, other Americans have.

Why don't these Americans (even if they are Ugly Americans) have the same problem in Italy that they do in France? (They don't, you know .) The Italians are just very mellow (in my experience).

I married an Italian (I'm still married to him, but he is now a US citizen) and when I first visited Italy I had studied French, Spanish, and German. No Italian. I literally didn't know *a word* of Italian. I was afraid to open my mouth in the street. Yet the Italian people were univerally wonderful...and in time I learned some Italian.

I do think the French must be less tolerant of American tourists than the people of some other countries. (But I am unwilling to fight about this .)

 

[SkyMonkey]

----------------
On 4/11/2003 9

5:19 AM AGBF wrote:

I speak French (well, albeit imperfectly) and have lived in France. I have not generally found the French people rude. On the other hand, other Americans have.

Why don't these Americans (even if they are Ugly Americans) have the same problem in Italy that they do in France? (They don't, you know .) The Italians are just very mellow (in my experience).

I married an Italian (I'm still married to him, but he is now a US citizen) and when I first visited Italy I had studied French, Spanish, and German. No Italian. I literally didn't know *a word* of Italian. I was afraid to open my mouth in the street. Yet the Italian people were univerally wonderful...and in time I learned some Italian.

I do think the French must be less tolerant of American tourists than the people of some other countries. (But I am unwilling to fight about this .)

----------------

Not looking for a fight either, AGBF, but I fully agree with Rook's take on the language position as far as the French go. It's not unreasonable for the French in France to get a bit miffed when a non-French person speaks to them in English, with no attempt at French, and then when that doesn't work gets louder in English, sometimes ending up shouting in English (I have seen this happen, and it p*ssed ME off - I'm not French).

If Italians are cooler about it then that's great for English-speakers who want somewhere to go and speak English, but I think any person in their own country where English isn't the first language can expect a visitor to do them the courtesy of at least trying out a little of the language before resorting to English.

In my opinion Rook hit it on the head - don't go to France and expect the same treatment talking English straight off as you'll get if you TRY French first. You don't have to be good or even comprehensible at French - what is appreciated is that fact that you've acknowledged *their* language isn't English and *you're* in *their* country.

And Rook, I agree again - I'd give the foreigner who went into most US bars, restaurants, shops whatever and repeatedly asked for a beer, meal, pen, louder and louder in any other language than English about 10 seconds before being written off as nuts and 20 seconds before being kicked out. (If he didn't leave after 20 and it was some of the bars I've been in, God help him)

 

[Rook]

AGBF,

Well France is the only other country I have been to (not counting Canada as I live in Michigan and Canada is not much different to me.) So, I don't know how Americans are treated in other countries in Europe. But, I have heard rumors that girls need to be on very carefull watch as to not get molested in Italy. I have heard the italian men are quick to grope the unexpected american girl. Also, I have heard that you will get pick pocketed very quickly in Italy if you don't protect yourself.

This is just hearsay, but if it is true maybe that is why they are nicer, or maybe they just are nicer. I don't really know. My girl and I plan to go to Italy someday though. It was going to be for a honeymoon, but we shall see if the world calms down by then.

 

[DiehardSearcher]

Richard Sherwood, thank you for your personal remarks. I can see how that post benefits the forum as much as the one you are referring to. The personal remarks you provide to forums are the reason I never once considered you and chose Dave Atlas.

Andrea, ah, it seems you may be just a tad quicker than Iceman. Iceman has been speaking to my boss for quite some time now.

Andrea, I don't believe I publicly questioned his intelligence. I believe I publicly commented on the illiterate, closed-minded mentality, and self-indulgent nature of his posts. If he is mensa-quality, perhaps he should use it for the betterment of society rather than biceps and bankrolls. He should realize that he will never be the biggest in either category.

This is not DiamondTalk. The absence of comments such as those Iceman adds are the reason I spent time here during my diamond search. What percentage of Iceman's 8000+ DiamondTalk posts do you think helped consumers make diamond purchasing decisions?

As my diamond search is over, I doubt whether PriceScope will provide me any benefit. Goodbye.

 

[SkyMonkey]

To be fair, my sister spent a year in France and got unwanted physical attention a couple of times on the Paris metro. She left those guys doubled up on the floor (and let's hope with a little internal haemorraging) after kneeing them HARD in the nuts. I've also had friends who've been pickpocketed in Paris. My parents were mugged in Florida, but they've still been back to the States several times since then (with no problems). I have one friend who went to Moscow and his suitcase was emptied between hotel foyer and getting to his room - it was out of his sight for all of 30 seconds. You get criminals and pervs everywhere - I don't see it as a reason to avoid a place or country. Just be vigilant, don't put yourself in unnecessarily risky situations and, as a last resort, have that knee-swing ready.

 

[SkyMonkey]

Are DieHardSearcher and Iceman the same person? I think we should be told...

 

[Rook]

Claude,

Point taken, and tell your sister good job

I never intended avoid Italy though. In fact that is the next big trip we will take, but we want to wait for the war and the backlash on Americans to die down a bit before we travel overseas. Not that all foreigners will bugs us as americans, but there are more fanatics running around these days and we prefer to be safe than sorry.

DHS,

Man, you are picking fights with everyone. I am glad that Pricescope was able to help you out with your purchase, but disappointed that you plan to leave opposed to help other new consumers the way you were helped when you were a new consumer. You back lash others for post that are not helpfull to consumers yet you don't care to help them yourself.

IMO, you need to learn to take critism, (even unwarrented or harsh critism) in stride. If you do not like Ice, then ignore him. I think you provoke him by constantly fighting with him. Kind of like the bully on the playground. The more you let it bother you, the more he wants to pester you. Don't forget, you don't know any of us, so why would you really care what someone says about you.

 

[Rook]

----------------
On 4/11/2003 11

9

8 AM Claude wrote:

Are DieHardSearcher and Iceman the same person? I think we should be told...
----------------

Wouldn't that be funny. That would actually be a good gag to pull.

 

[SkyMonkey]

This is going off-topic, but I've finally today got back into Pricescope after several months of log-in failures, and I thought I'd explain the name-change.

When I first started looking for a stone, I registered on Pricescope as Claude. After a few weeks, my log-in wouldn't work and I couldn't access Pricescope at all. I then found Diamond Chit Chat, and registered as SkyMonkey. I've today managed to log-in again to Pricescope as Claude, which I've now changed to SkyMonkey for consistency.

Anyway, whatever was broke (maybe my technical ability to use a computer) appears to be fixed now.

So Claude is now dead.

I realise there is not here, and my posts will stay separate, but I think there has been some controversy before about people using more than one name from the same access point.

 

[emnightingale]

The "rude" people you can find in France or any other country, are the same type you can find in the US if you cut them off on a busy freeway. Anywhere you go, you can find rude people and nice ones. Those I know who have been to France have found the majority of the people there to be lovely.

I think it is childish to boycott products produced in a country based on a difference in national opinion. I refuse to change my spending habits over something like this.

Em

 

[Iceman]

Is Iceman and Diehard searcher the same

That is the worst slap in the face I have gotten yet !
I guess Whiteflash can answer that one , they spoke with him for 3 hours on the
phone

I have nothing to hide being myself. I don't benefit from the Internet , like most do
on here so , Im here telling it like it is and enjoying the company.

Diehard ~ I would like to say that not all my 8000 posts were educational,(but Im not on the payroll this is my free time

) I would
say it was half and half. I did help people and if it was 20 posts or 20,000 posts it
was still my free time helping people.

So, I guess if you don't want to here the truth then please skip over my posts.

I do this in-between customers, so if my sentence structure is off or spelling , please
have pity on me

 

[SkyMonkey]

I have to admit I don't quite understand the boycott. What is it ultimately hoping to achieve? To hit the French economy because you disagree with the French government's stance?

I realise that on an individual level the boycotters may just not want to put their hard-earned $$$ into French goods, and I can understand (but personally don't agree with) that reaction. You pays your money, you takes your choice.

Even if the whole of the US was behind the boycott and carried it through and it wrecked the French economy, I honestly don't think it would change the French (or any other country's) government's thinking and beliefs about whether something is right or wrong.

You don't change someone's mind to your way of thinking by kicking them in the head until they agree. It won't work and you'll lose their and others' respect as a result. You change it by persuading them that maybe they haven't got it right and you have, by giving reasons and backing them up.

Boycotting (if solicited on a national scale when you're talking about a nation as big as the US) just seems to me like bully-boy tactics - "If you're not going to do it our way then, damn, are you going to pay for it." What sort of world stage is that?

I realise other countries use similar tactics in international politics (including France threatening Eastern European countries over their EU membership if they sided with the US over Iraq). I don't really have issues with governments issuing threats like that anymore - it's how "diplomacy" seems to work and it's come to be expected.

What I find really disheartening about the boycott and other steps the US seems to be taking now is that this is people in the general populace, not the government, trying to throw their weight around because someone disagrees with them. When you get into scenarios like re-naming French Fries as "Freedom" Fries I have to say it's the US, not France, that seems to be on another planet. They're not called French Fries as a tribute to the current French government. The French kiss isn't so-called in honour of anything that's happened in the last year.

What next - cutting France off your world maps and burning any book that has France or the French as its subject? It sounds far-fetched, but come on - the decision to change the name of fries and kisses is solely to excise the word "French". I would not have believed people could get so petty.

I accept governments of all nations can sometimes look like idiots (hey, they're full of politicians after all), but when you're down to individuals using their buying power to get pieces of fried potato re-named, like I said at the beginning, I don't understand what it's supposed to achieve.

I shall end this by quoting Bananarama (always good for a sombre summary): It's not what you do, it's the way that you do it.

(And luckily, we here in Blighty have the alternative phrase of "tongue sarnie", which avoids any national leanings (but can rather ruin the mood)

)

SkyMonkey

 

[SkyMonkey]

Ahhh, shucks. This ALWAYS happens. Iceman - my reply above was NOT a blanking response to yours, it just got posted up after yours did.

Only kidding on the DieHard / you thing.

I suspect you may slightly disagree with me over the France thing. I do however agree with your message to DieHard - if you don't like something or someone, put up a post and say why or ignore their views.

Personally, I've found Iceman's posts very informative when he's responding to a serious question, and when he isn't why should he always be informative? And a few of Iceman's posts have even been funny as well.

 

[AGBF]

On 4/11/2003 10:43

8 AM Rook wrote:

"I have heard rumors that girls need to be on very carefull watch as to not get molested in Italy. I have heard the italian men are quick to grope the unexpected american girl."

Alas, no such thing ever happened to me there or anywhere else in Europe, even when I was young .

Once when I was walking in France, however, an *incredibly* handsome, young Frenchman

stopped, *without* trying to grope me or pick me up, and said, "Mais que vous etes belle! Etes-vous francaise?" (Notice he even vousvoyezed me!!) When I said, "Je suis americaine" he said, "C'est domage!", smiled cheerfully and continued in his own direction

. That is one of the memories with which I regale myself in my old age .

Hey! That must be why I like Ice! I *RELATE* to reliving one's youth

!

 

[Richard Sherwood]

-----------
The personal remarks you provide to forums are the reason I never once
considered you and chose Dave Atlas.
-----------

Excellent choice. I highly recommend Dave. Consumers usually go with who they like, and respect. Everyone has a different style, and no one person captures the market.

I wish you the best in life, DieHard, and hope you work on your social skills so you will be able to derive the most from it.

 

[Mara]

I too have heard the 'men in Italy' tale...friends of friends who have been over there say the Italian men are very free with their hands!!!

Maybe Giangi can set us straight

Giangi where are you??

 

[Rook]

AGBf,

Well as I said, I have never been there, so all I heard could very likely be bulls###. I really hope I am wrong because I have heard many good things about the history and culture of Italy, which is why we are so attracted to the country.

Also, I agree the french can be very nice, and something in their language and their presentation of the language is sexy. I saw more than one girl there that my girlfriend would not be please to know about. The french just have a way with them. But I am sure the Italians, or most europeans do. There is something with an accent isn't there.

Tell me the Sean Connery's accent isn't why he is regarded as a stud. Hell I wish I were he because of it.

 

[fire&ice]

I think Italians celebrate women. Also, in the form of celebrating pregancy & Babies.

My parents rely a story that when traveling in Rome a man scooped me up, held me up and started to proclaim "Bella Bambino (sp?)" over & over (I was about 2-3 years). My mother was livid. My father having been accustomed to Italians smiled and calmed her down. Italians are must more expressive.

 

[kaylagee]

I'm living in Paris(orig. from SF Bay Area) and married to a French man. The language is a big deal, but I've found that the attempt & attitude is more important than actual skill.

Also, I'm still seeing (& hearing! LOL! the loudness accusation might be true, i'm beginning to think)quite a few Americans around... We went to the James Taylor concert here and there were quite a few in the crowd too.

 

[Heyjud]

"They're already dividing up Iraq: We get the leaded, Britain gets the unleaded, and France gets the restroom." —Craig Kilborn

 

[rodentman]

Ice, reefering to your first post, I can give up everything listed, but the Jerry Springer Show? Have a heart, can't I watch it once a week? Pleeze????

 

[tessa]

Heck, I grew up in NYC and had a heck of a time with men groping in the subways.

My travels in France were wonderful. I tried to speak French whenever I could (or couldn't) and nobody was ever rude to me.
The French do have a thing about language, though.
I cant think of another country that has a Ministry of Language.

I never went to Italy, although I am Italian (of Italian descent) and they do love women and babies, that's for sure. But that's good, too.
Not too many other people appreciate a beautiful pregnant woman.

The boycott?
Do what makes you feel good and effectual but the actual effect on France is that of a mosquito.
It's annoying but it can't really do much harm.

Besides, I am a California winegrape grower, so I say-
don't buy French wine!!
Buy domestic.

 

[Vegan]

Interesting info, but do you boycott gas too?
If you want to boycott things sold by people who disagree with Little Bush you don't have to go as far as France. There are many people right here who hate what he is doing. But I understand your concern about supporting someone who causes deaths of many innocent lives.
Make sure not to buy a conflict diamond or blood diamond if you want to keep your ethics. Try to use as little gas as possible too, since many people are being killed in this war for oil.
To widen the circle of concern, think about going vegetarian. It would directly save the lives of about 83 living, feeling creatures every year. Not to mention all the people and other non-human animals it would help from the environmental impact and resources saved.
Good luck with all your causes. But make sure to look for the connections of how all the acpects of your life effects the world around you.